Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'm not disputing what you're saying... but don't you think the promoting side bears some responsibility as well? I think promoters in general have done a piss poor job in promoting someone like Andre Ward. I also think the division itself doesn't help, in the sense that there's lesser known quality at that weight than at a more popular weight, like welter or middle. But yeah... unfortunately Andre's personality doesn't help promote him. It's refreshing to see someone like Andre, but many fans aren't going to tune in unless he starts acting like a jerk and calling people out.
Getting him into the Spuer Six and all his fights at home then getting him the light heavy champ on HBO isn't too shabby a job of promoting him. But you've got to have something to promote. A quietly-spoken respectful guy isn't the easiest thing to work with. If Ward had been a total cunt at the start of the Super Six, telling people the rest of the six were shit and he was going to beat the shit out of them then he would have been off to the races. He could have stood in the ring after the Kessler fight and made his mouth go. He'd just beaten the favourite and people would have started to take notice. You'd get a lot of people loving him and a lot of people hating him but they'd all tune in. Unfortunately for him he's not that kind of person, he's throwing away millions by not being a cunt.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'm not disputing what you're saying... but don't you think the promoting side bears some responsibility as well? I think promoters in general have done a piss poor job in promoting someone like Andre Ward. I also think the division itself doesn't help, in the sense that there's lesser known quality at that weight than at a more popular weight, like welter or middle. But yeah... unfortunately Andre's personality doesn't help promote him. It's refreshing to see someone like Andre, but many fans aren't going to tune in unless he starts acting like a jerk and calling people out.
Getting him into the Spuer Six and all his fights at home then getting him the light heavy champ on HBO isn't too shabby a job of promoting him. But you've got to have something to promote. A quietly-spoken respectful guy isn't the easiest thing to work with. If Ward had been a total cunt at the start of the Super Six, telling people the rest of the six were shit and he was going to beat the shit out of them then he would have been off to the races. He could have stood in the ring after the Kessler fight and made his mouth go. He'd just beaten the favourite and people would have started to take notice. You'd get a lot of people loving him and a lot of people hating him but they'd all tune in. Unfortunately for him he's not that kind of person, he's throwing away millions by not being a cunt.
Exactly.
Olympic gold medal winner, unbeaten, Super Six champion, WBC/WBA champion, P4P ranked no.3 and has 140,000 twitter followers.
The days of quiet/nice guys becoming stars has gone.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'm not disputing what you're saying... but don't you think the promoting side bears some responsibility as well? I think promoters in general have done a piss poor job in promoting someone like Andre Ward. I also think the division itself doesn't help, in the sense that there's lesser known quality at that weight than at a more popular weight, like welter or middle. But yeah... unfortunately Andre's personality doesn't help promote him. It's refreshing to see someone like Andre, but many fans aren't going to tune in unless he starts acting like a jerk and calling people out.
Getting him into the Spuer Six and all his fights at home then getting him the light heavy champ on HBO isn't too shabby a job of promoting him. But you've got to have something to promote. A quietly-spoken respectful guy isn't the easiest thing to work with. If Ward had been a total cunt at the start of the Super Six, telling people the rest of the six were shit and he was going to beat the shit out of them then he would have been off to the races. He could have stood in the ring after the Kessler fight and made his mouth go. He'd just beaten the favourite and people would have started to take notice. You'd get a lot of people loving him and a lot of people hating him but they'd all tune in. Unfortunately for him he's not that kind of person, he's throwing away millions by not being a cunt.
Exactly.
Olympic gold medal winner, unbeaten, Super Six champion, WBC/WBA champion, P4P ranked no.3 and has
140,000 twitter followers.
The days of quiet/nice guys becoming stars has gone.
Let's suppose for an instant that Kelly Pavlik would've panned out the way he was initially projected. Or Andre Berto, for that matter. You don't think they would've had a huge PPV following by now, regardless of the fact they're soft-spoken and somewhat humble?
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
They wouldn't because they weren't talented enough.
Berto is a nobody. Pavlik would have been much bigger but he quickly got exposed and become a pisshead.
Finding the new SRL is basically impossible.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
(patiently) Yes, Fenster.... I know. They weren't talented enough. That's why I started with "let's suppose....", ok? It's a discussion. I'm saying that, had they had the talent HBO was assuming they had (OR... had Pavlik stayed on the straight and narrow, instead of becoming an alcoholic)...... there's a chance they would've been huge PPV stars.
My point is, if I may, that it's not completely essential that a star be an asshole like a Tyson or a Mayweather to be hugely popular. It helps, I guess... but it's not essential. Huge talent in a popular division, with a good personality, could carry you also.
That's all I'm saying.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Yeah your point is very clear.
Currently there is no modern fighter that comes close to fitting your idea of an "all american hero"
So you are left with fantasy "what ifs"
Yes Pavlik would have been a bigger star had he been more talented. He wasn't. So it's impossible to gauge what his popularity would have been in this current time.
If a time comes when an "all american hero" becomes as brilliant, popular and famous as Floyd Maywether, then you can consider your theory about nice guys was correct.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Bad guy appeal sells and has a definite effect on all things concerning the fighter including sales in ppv and the gate. Many of the overall numbers are purchased by people who want to him get shit kicked. Those are facts and they can be shown empirically going as far back as ancient Greece. How much does it have to do with the actual cash numbers I have no idea but I'd wager its significant.
The good guy also sells and one needs to look no further then Hatton. Andre Ward's good boy image on the other hand is over the top. I don't see him ever attaining Hattons type of popularity. Relying on these social media sites to gauge popularity is like using compubox to gauge a fight. I mean with Wards pedigree and accomplishments you would think his numbers would be through the roof in fight revenues. I do not like Ward and its a personality thing. He's a gifted fighter/technician but a part of me would like to see him cold cocked. Now again I will watch his fights anyway because of my love for the sport but I'm sure that a certain percentage of the casual and non boxing fans would pay to see him get decked. Dislike actually has an effect in sales for the exceptional good guy and the exceptional bad guy but admittedly more for the bad guy.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Bad guy appeal sells and has a definite effect on all things concerning the fighter including sales in ppv and the gate. Many of the overall numbers are purchased by people who want to him get shit kicked. Those are facts and they can be shown empirically going as far back as ancient Greece. How much does it have to do with the actual cash numbers I have no idea but I'd wager its significant.
The good guy also sells and one needs to look no further then Hatton. Andre Ward's good boy image on the other hand is over the top. I don't see him ever attaining Hattons type of popularity. Relying on these social media sites to gauge popularity is like using compubox to gauge a fight. I mean with Wards pedigree and accomplishments you would think his numbers would be through the roof in fight revenues. I do not like Ward and its a personality thing. He's a gifted fighter/technician but a part of me would like to see him cold cocked. Now again I will watch his fights anyway because of my love for the sport but I'm sure that a certain percentage of the casual and non anboxing fans would pay to see him get decked. Dislike actually has an effect in sales for the exceptional good guy and the exceptional bad guy but admittedly more for the bad anguy.
I agree with almost everything you've said, with this exception. I like Ward and can't understand why you don't.
This is not an attack on you, and I'm not saying you should like Ward,
I would just like to know why you don't.
I think we can all agree that Ward is the GOOD Floyd, and Floyd is the BAD Ward. They are both very skilled, cautious, and intelligent boxers who always win.
I like Ward because he gives respect to everyone around him and I think he means what he says, plus he wins.
I dislike Floyd because you will never know what is going on in his head. I think I would trust Fenster before Floyd, and Floyd doesn't even drink. Seriously, is the real Floyd the one we saw go to jail for domestic abuse or the one we saw running a 5K for charity. I'm hanging around waiting to see the real Floyd, and buying PPV to see him get knocked on his ass. I don't even care if he wins or loses, I just want to see him sitting on his butt in the middle of the ring because of a solid KD. I know, I know, I'm a petty little shit but that's me.
Fair question. And again ftr I think he's a fantastic fighter. I guess it started with the tourney and him getting home ice throughout and then post the tourney again only fighting at home. Getting away with judges and homie refs. Not even getting a warning for using his head in the Kessler fight. He's also smug to me and a little to squeaky clean. Yet I'm not really bothered by Broner and many people are. Just one of those things I guess. I don't know art but I know what I like.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Seth Mitchell is the future.
Bold statement to make considering he hasn't fought anyone!!!!!!! He's 30 ffs! LOL.
Mitchell is a schooling waiting to happen. The US will have to get used to this shift in boxing and accept that they can't have it all there way anymore.
Jennings looks quite good. Apart from that the HW future lies with the eastern europeans for the fore seeable future. Brit david price and Pulev would beat mitchell. Povetkin and adamek would outbox him too. It's diabolical that the guy has 25 fights and is still yet to fight a world class opponent! Mitchell would get beaten by the seasoned eddie chambers too so how is he the future of american HW boxing? He's not even the best contender! And he's certainly not the best yank.
Best current yank is chambers. Best prospect is jennings.
http://www.boxingscene.com/media/dat...chambers-5.jpg
http://www.peltzboxing.com/photos/03...Liakhovich.jpg
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'm not disputing what you're saying... but don't you think the promoting side bears some responsibility as well? I think promoters in general have done a piss poor job in promoting someone like Andre Ward. I also think the division itself doesn't help, in the sense that there's lesser known quality at that weight than at a more popular weight, like welter or middle. But yeah... unfortunately Andre's personality doesn't help promote him. It's refreshing to see someone like Andre, but many fans aren't going to tune in unless he starts acting like a jerk and calling people out.
Getting him into the Spuer Six and all his fights at home then getting him the light heavy champ on HBO isn't too shabby a job of promoting him. But you've got to have something to promote. A quietly-spoken respectful guy isn't the easiest thing to work with. If Ward had been a total cunt at the start of the Super Six, telling people the rest of the six were shit and he was going to beat the shit out of them then he would have been off to the races. He could have stood in the ring after the Kessler fight and made his mouth go. He'd just beaten the favourite and people would have started to take notice. You'd get a lot of people loving him and a lot of people hating him but they'd all tune in. Unfortunately for him he's not that kind of person, he's throwing away millions by not being a cunt.
Exactly.
Olympic gold medal winner, unbeaten, Super Six champion, WBC/WBA champion, P4P ranked no.3 and has
140,000 twitter followers.
The days of quiet/nice guys becoming stars has gone.
I would agree with this up to a point. Unless you have some kid come along with SRL-type skills and a megawatt nice personality and win gold at the Olympics then it's hard to see any boxer making the kind of breakthrough into the mainstream where he's going to get TV and press coverage, endorsements etc. But De La Hoya was marketed that way and had the skills to go with the hype, so it isn't completely impossible for it to happen again.
But basically all boxers can forget about getting any mainstream media coverage and becoming known to sports fans. Ward is a perfect example. Hasn't lost since he was eleven, won the Olympic gold, unbeaten world champ, etc etc and nobody knows him. So really the only way these guys can seriously promote themselves to a point where people get to hear about them is with their mouth/behaviour. Ward needs to start telling people he really is the son of god and as god's son he's unbeatable in the ring, get some bling, punch his wife, maybe shoot his dad in the leg or something.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
I wonder though, how difficult would it be for Wards team to contact someone at Nike and say hey listen this is who Ward is and He'd like to endorse your products.
Also another thing, boxing is the one sport that almost all other professional athletes in america like. I don't know why but it just is.
Or better yet call non stop people at sports illustrated to get a feature on him. After all he is the last american to win the gold medal and he is kicking ass and taking names.
I have no idea how these things work but I remember an interview with Archie Moore in which he said almost every night he wrote letters to all outlets of media introducing himself to them and saying why he should be under their coverage.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Benavidez was lucky on Saturday night. There have got to be serious questions about his chin now. He went into an Amir Khan-like total body discombobulation. He didn't look too special in the rest of the fight either.
Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
I would like to think Gary Russell Jr. , but American's don't typically care about anything below light welter.
Broner could be that guy, I think he's going to eventually move up to 140 and that's where he can really start to make a name for himself. The Ponce de Leon incident was a hiccup, but will be mostly forgotten once he starts moving in to higher weight classes.
Deontay Wilder? Please, he's already 4 years older than Broner and he's still fighting garbage
