Challenge to all.........

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Originally Posted by ross

Which defining fight did Floyd have to prove how good he was?

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He outboxed everyone mate, In the finish I was only left wondering how he would go against someone who took a total war to him,cut him off smashed his arms out the way and walked over him with power, that was the only question I had left.

Although I think Kostya may have taken Floyd to ground at one stage in his prime and done some damage and had a chance with skills if he could slow him like that.

Hatton was the only prime one left to prove it and never even came close, not even once the whole fight so there is one answer for you and maybe its an underlying reason for rubbishing Floyd against another Brit fighter in Calzage.:-\.

Who I think hasnt quite the same skill level if they did magically happen to be at the same weight.
Would be interesting and close maybe but not a definate; I'd go 55 % to 45 % in Floyds favour. Same goes for if he met Bernard or Roy at the same weight all in their prime; Roy and him maybe as close as 50 /50 when Roy could match his hand speed to his foot speed with those snappy attacks from beyond the outside with full weight and power on the move, he would have been much harder to read ,adjust to and deal with from within Floyds system than the other two I think.

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

I keep hearing all this negative stuff about Calzhage and I'm just stunned. The guy is the most complete package of our era.

Tell me where you guys guys have found a better package of Speed, Heart, Ring Smarts, Adjustments, Chin, Conditioning, Skill, Dedication and his fights are clean. No need to cheat when you're this good i guess. (Hopkins)

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those quality are easy to display when you fight a decade of part time boxer, post prime fighters, overhype contenders, etc.

imo joes only good win was against kessler, and second good fight was the lost to hopkins. actually they gave him the win in the hopkins fight but obviously i thought he lost to a 40 plus year old legend. just imagine if he fought them in hopkins prime. its funny you mentioned chin, and joe was drop but two old legend roy, hopkins. I dont like the way joe fights, i think he slaps a lot and makes himself look foolish with ring antics. I think prime roy jones would destroyed him, and make him look like a b level fighter.

Oh come on now Rain one of your favorite fighters have beat greats on the slide of there carreer so i dont know why you got get on Calzaghe so hard i mean i dont like him that much and i agree with some of what you said but you cant make a double standard on how you judge fighters.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Oh come on now Rain one of your favorite fighters have beat greats on the slide of there carreer so i dont know why you got get on Calzaghe so hard i mean i dont like him that much and i agree with some of what you said but you cant make a double standard on how you judge fighters.

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its so not the same, pac came on the scene blazing not giving a damn who he come across. He was in his early 20s when he began his quest to battle agains the greats in his division. Its not pacs fault some consider them already on the slide, pac did what joe wouldn't do. leave his country early and bring the sport historic battles. Young hungry fighter versus Legendary fighters. pac was 24 i think when he first fought marco and marco was in his late 20s. Granted Marco has lost before but pac shocked the world with a win over featherweight king and p4p top 3-4 at the time. Joe didnt do that did he?

If joe had done what pac did joe would be considered a great by more people right now but thats if he continued to be successful.

If pac did what joe did fight local fighters and call himself world champ for a decade people wouldn't know who pac is right now.

how is that not clear to understand? Clearly pac took a hard route to the top. He had to fight the big names and he did it right away 3 in like a year. I guess if he waited any longer then people would really get on his case about fighting washed up fighters. Well at the time they were still top fighters. People can arge morales case, well some like GAME says eric was coming of a lost everytime he fought pac. well thats true but erics lost came from barrera who pac just recently destroyed, the other from pac himself and the other from raheem at erics first 135 bout. Eric suddenly a low level fighter because he lost to two top fighter and a bigger fighter at 135?

Well you can also say that the talent was not queite there for him to grab at the right time and it is all not his fault i mean come on cant put the blame on him for Roy and Hopkins are hard to land a deal with also i not saying Barrea was shot but was not prime and for Morles was on the slide coming off the loses i never said they were shot i think Oscar Dela Hoya was done and if you want to agrue that then i dont know what to say to you because i just have to disagree as for Bernard he has been in the top 10 pound for pound for 10 years now if you look at the lists and just came off a career high win over the top middle weight champion that win Calzaghe got over him was equal with Barrea or Marquez then there was Lacy win wich was like a on the same level as Pac win over the light weight title guy forget his name but far form great as well then Kessler win comes into play which is like the Morles win also something Calzaghe can say he has never lost which not many people can say not saying who is better i just saying that there not that far apart form what i see.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well the only thing that bothers me about Floyde is that he retired when all the competion was there for him i mean Joe never had the chances Floyde has had talent wise in the divsion but Floyde called it a day and he is in prime in a heavy talented divsion and as for Joe no longer prime and he has alot less talent to prove anything now so i guess you can look at that as well when you are rating them and there choices they make also ice moving up in weight in lower divsion is not the same when you do it in higher divsion i mean floyde move up 24 pounds joe would be moving up like 32 just to make the limit then be fighting guys over 60 pounds over the weight he started.

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So why not go to Cruiserweight and do something Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins choose not to do and fight the undisputed champ in Thomasz Adamek. Now I know alot of the european fans would love to see these 2 go at it. I think Joe could take him and put another stamp on his great career. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jon09

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well the only thing that bothers me about Floyde is that he retired when all the competion was there for him i mean Joe never had the chances Floyde has had talent wise in the divsion but Floyde called it a day and he is in prime in a heavy talented divsion and as for Joe no longer prime and he has alot less talent to prove anything now so i guess you can look at that as well when you are rating them and there choices they make also ice moving up in weight in lower divsion is not the same when you do it in higher divsion i mean floyde move up 24 pounds joe would be moving up like 32 just to make the limit then be fighting guys over 60 pounds over the weight he started.

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So why not go to Cruiserweight and do something Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins choose not to do and fight the undisputed champ in Thomasz Adamek. Now I know alot of the european fans would love to see these 2 go at it. I think Joe could take him and put another stamp on his great career. Thoughts?

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Jermain Taylor
Kelly Pavlik
Glen Johnson
Chad Dawson
Antonio Tarver (had plenty of chances to make this fight happen)
Steve Cunnigham
Tomaz Adamek

looks like plenty of names and talent he could be calling out

Ment when Calzaghe was young and in prime dude not now when he is the older version and none of those names would really to much for him.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by ross

Which defining fight did Floyd have to prove how good he was?

Calzaghe was thought to have been fading and too old after his faultless performance against Lacy to be a threat against the big strong powerfull Kessler, yet he proved how good he is by figuring him out, eating up his best shots, he really proved his worth especially at his age and how long hed been at the top.

Floyd doesnt have that icing on the cake:p

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Been there done that with Coralles, Castillo, Hatton

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Non were seen as serious threats to Floyd, for various reasons, Corrales for the weight, Castillo for not having anyting special and also not being undefeated (undefeated means nothing skill wise but he wasnt a unified rising young star like Kessler) and Hattonw as moving up a weight and most felt that hed lose anyway.

Whereas Joe had to prove himself all over again and what I meant by people thinking he was on the slide is that the Lacy fight was probably his last good performance and that Lacy was overrated anyway, whereas Kessler had fought and beaten more world class operators and title holders and done it very well.

Emanuel Steward was gushing over Joe during his commentating of the Kessler bout, would he ever call Floyd a "fighting machine"? Or comemnt on how he "adjusts brilliantly" or even that the two combabtants are probably both 2 of the best boxers around today??

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Originally Posted by iwng100

He is the complete package but he’s not the only one, the problem is he fought the best boxers (RJJ and Hopkins) when they got old, in other words he didn’t really proved he’s the best but he always acted like he was.

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This I think is where many people issues with him lie.

Why for so long did he refuse to move up and fight them?

He overcame his fear of flying too conveniently.

Who did he fight on near equal terms, i.e age/experience? Reid? Kessler?
You can't put Lacy in that group.

Certainly a very talented fighter but honestly the field didn't seem that deep, fighters somehow need a defining fight to propel them above the field. I don't think JC really had that. & No, sorry, Hopkins/Jones don't do that.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well you can also say that the talent was not queite there for him to grab at the right time and it is all not his fault i mean come on cant put the blame on him for Roy and Hopkins are hard to land a deal with also i not saying Barrea was shot but was not prime and for Morles was on the slide coming off the loses i never said they were shot i think Oscar Dela Hoya was done and if you want to agrue that then i dont know what to say to you because i just have to disagree as for Bernard he has been in the top 10 pound for pound for 10 years now if you look at the lists and just came off a career high win over the top middle weight champion that win Calzaghe got over him was equal with Barrea or Marquez then there was Lacy win wich was like a on the same level as Pac win over the light weight title guy forget his name but far form great as well then Kessler win comes into play which is like the Morles win also something Calzaghe can say he has never lost which not many people can say not saying who is better i just saying that there not that far apart form what i see.

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Wrong, joes win over kessler is not equal to pacs k.o wins over eric.

Wrong, Bhop was on and off the p4p list, made it back in after the tarver win.

Wrong, Pacs win over mab and jmm is far above any joes win. Mab was top 3 p4p at the time (#1Roy,#2Oscar,#3Mab) and JMM was top 3 as well(#1Pac,#2Joe,#3JMM) some may even argue JMM was above joe p4p.

No you can't really put the blame on him for roy and bhop years ago, but you can say why the hell didn't he fight at bigger stage. He is already regarded as a GOD in his country but he and his fans what him to be remember as a Great by the world. How can the world consider him such an honor if he hardly fought worldwide or atleast at bigger stage in the U.S.A were real competition are held. end of discussion.

When did hey get knocked off saw him in ever single list when i was looking at the years enless they were wrong i take another look.

1980

KO Magazine (January)
1 - Roberto Duran
2 - Sugar Ray Leonard
3 - Wilfredo Gomez
4 - Danny Lopez
5 - Pipino Cuevas
6 - Alexis Arguello
7 - Larry Holmes
8 - Wilfred Benitez
9 - Vito Antuofermo/Matt Saad Muhammad (tie)


1981

KO Magazine (January)
1 - Thomas Hearns
2 - Sugar Ray Leonard
3 - Marvin Hagler
4 - Larry Holmes
5 - Alexis Arguello
6 - Wilfredo Gomez
7 - Eddie Mustafa Muhammad
8 - Matt Saad Muhammmad
9 - Wilfred Benitez
10 - Roberto Duran/Aaron Pryor (tie)

1982

KO Magazine
1. Sugar Ray Leonard
2. Alexis Arguello
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Salvador Sanchez
5. Wilfred Benitez
6. Larry Holmes
7. Jeff Chandler
8. Eusebio Pedroza
9. Aaron Pryor
10. Thomas Hearns/Dwight Braxton* (tie)

*Dwight Muhammad Qawi

1983

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Larry Holmes
4. Michael Spinks
5. Jeff Chandler
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Alexis Arguello
8. Wilfredo Gomez
9. Hector Camacho
10. Eusebio Pedroza

1984

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Larry Holmes
4. Eusebio Pedroza
5. Hector Camacho
6. Ray Leonard
6. Jeff Chandler
8. Michael Spinks
9. Thomas Hearns
10. Donald Curry

1985

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Hector Camacho
3. Michael Spinks
4. Donald Curry
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Barry McGuigan
7. Milton McCrory
8. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Pinklon Thomas
10. Larry Holmes

1986

KO Magazine
1. Marvin Hagler
2. Mike Tyson
3. Donald Curry
4. Thomas Hearns
5. Edwin Rosario
6. Azumah Nelson
6. Michael Spinks
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Julio Cesar Chavez
10. Hector Camacho

1988

KO Magazine
1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Ray Leonard
5. Jeff Fenech
6. Michael Nunn
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Jung Koo Chang
9. Buddy McGirt
10. Sumbu Kalambay

1989

1. Mike Tyson
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Michael Nunn
5. Antonio Esparragoza
6. Meldrick Taylor
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Raul Perez
9. Virgil Hill
10. Marlon Starling

1990

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Michael Nunn
4. Antonio Esparragoza
5. Meldrick Taylor
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Mike Tyson
8. Raul Perez
9. Myung-Woo Yuh
10. Khaosai Galaxy

1992

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Terry Norris
4. Orlando Canizales
5. James (Buddy) McGirt
6. Riddick Bowe
7. Azumah Nelson
8. Sung-Kil Moon
9. Julian Jackson
10. James Toney

1993

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. James Toney
4. Michael Carbajal
5. Orlando Canizales
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Roy Jones Jr.
9. Kennedy McKinney
10. Yuri Arbachakov

1994

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Orlando Canizales
4. Ricardo Lopez
5. Humberto Gonzalez
6. Frankie Randall
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Gerald McClellan
9. Miguel Angel Gonzalez
10. Kevin Kelley

1995

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Ricardo Lopez
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Yuri Arbachakov
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Riddick Bowe
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Terry Norris

1996

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Oscar De La Hoya
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Ricardo Lopez
6. Junior Jones
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Terry Norris
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Mark Johnson

1997

KO Magazine
1. Oscar De La Hoya
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Evander Holyfield
6. Terry Norris
7. Junior Jones
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Ike Quartey
10. Mark Johnson

1998

1. Oscar De La Hoya
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Evander Holyfield
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Mark Johnson
6. Shane Mosley
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9. Naseem Hamed
10. Johnny Tapia

1999

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

2000

1. Shane Mosley
2. Felix Trinidad
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Diego Corrales
6. Naseem Hamed
7. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Erik Morales
10. Bernard Hopkins

2001

1. Shane Mosley
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Marco Antonio Barrera
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Felix Trinidad
7. Oscar De La Hoya
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Kostya Tszyu
10. Erik Morales

2002

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Vernon Forrest
5. Oscar De La Hoya
6. Kostya Tszyu
7. Erik Morales
8. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Shane Mosley

2003

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Shane Mosley
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
6. Manny Pacquiao
7. Kostya Tszyu
8. Erik Morales
9. James Toney
10. Antonio Tarver

2004

1. Bernard Hopkins
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Kostya Tszyu
4. Ronald (Winky) Wright
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Marco Antonio Barrera
8. Erik Morales
9. Glen Johnson
10. Antonio Tarver

2005

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Ronald (Winky) Wright
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Erik Morales
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Rafael Marquez
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Zab Judah

2006

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Ronald (Winky) Wright
4. Jermain Taylor
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Marco Antonio Barrera
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ricky Hatton
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Joe Calzaghe

2007

Doug Fischer - Maxboxing.com
1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Israel Vazquez/Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Winky Wright

2008

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Antonio Margarito
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Ricky Hatton
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Yea he got knock off for a yea guess your right but he was a top guy when joe beat him you were making sound like he was shot.

Hmm, Mike Tyson top p4p fighter 2 years on the trot, wonder if a heavyweight has managed that before?

Hasnt happened since and doubt it will again;)

.....this argument over joe will never end and it's partially his own fault. First for spending too much of his career not fighting in the u.s. (then crying about people in the U.S. not liking him) and when he does fighting two past thier prime old men which might have been impressive but years ago. I for one think joe is a great fighter and don't necessarily like or dislike the guy but walk around my office and ask who he is and most here after all he's done still don't know who he is till you point our specific fights like "the guy who fought jones last or the guy who fought b-hop etc...." Then on the way out he acts as if he's boxing and we're lucky to have the sport even continue without him, I'd be satisfied if i were him, he's not american and he got the respect of the people who matter most his home country, most of the boxing media and his friends and family. Boxing fans will be split on the guy but the overall love from the general public he wants he will never get, no use letting dawson whoop on him for really no reason. On the grand scale of things and just in my opinion mayweather was a much better fighter in the ring and more known outside of it but just like floyd good riddence (however you spell it) there are tons of great fights to be made and floyd isn't going to loose and joe aint gonna fight anyone who is any real threat to him anymore anyways both should find something else to do and retire on top instead of trying to convince every last person on the planet how good they are cause they will never be able to convince as many people as they'd like.