Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Philosopher is obsessed with size and weight not about skill, technique, accuracy and natural power which is what punching power is about.
Think he's more obsessed with being a shit throwing tool frankly. Foreman with an iffy beard. For fuck sake :p
Or Foreman's lack of power.....when you can KO over 80% of the fighters you beat and when you're 45 and can KO the heavyweight champion of the world then IMO you've got some pop. Maybe if George was from Eastern Europe he'd get some props :rolleyes:
Thank you, I thought it was just me and some other posters that had figured out he is so wrong it is laughable.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Just more 'A' typical typical nonsense! The American Mythology Mill, The Hollywood Fantasy Factory and the 1970s Hero Hype Machine!
Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye his entire professional career. Frazier wouldn't even be allowed to box nowadays. What does that tell u? He tricked the medical tests by covering his blind left eye and then switching his hand to cover his blind left eye. He would also bve the smallest HW operating today! What does that tell u? These things matter...
My thought's on fraziers abulity? Frazier was left hook happy, a poor boxer in terms of defense (though he was excellent at bobbing and weaving at the peak of his career) and was short and borderline fat. However, he was also immensely tough, had under-appreciated hand speed and quickness, terrific stamina, and no small amount of courage!
I get all that defending your favourites thing. Joe is dead and that is sad. But he would not have had much of an impact in today's era...
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Philosopher is obsessed with size and weight not about skill, technique, accuracy and natural power which is what punching power is about.
Think he's more obsessed with being a shit throwing tool frankly. Foreman with an iffy beard. For fuck sake :p
Or Foreman's lack of power.....when you can KO over 80% of the fighters you beat and when you're 45 and can KO the heavyweight champion of the world then IMO you've got some pop. Maybe if George was from Eastern Europe he'd get some props :rolleyes:
Thank you, I thought it was just me and some other posters that had figured out he is so wrong it is laughable.
Please put forth your argument about foreman being 'the greatest puncher of all time'!
I will be waiting...
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Philosopher is obsessed with size and weight not about skill, technique, accuracy and natural power which is what punching power is about.
Think he's more obsessed with being a shit throwing tool frankly. Foreman with an iffy beard. For fuck sake :p
Or Foreman's lack of power.....when you can KO over 80% of the fighters you beat and when you're 45 and can KO the heavyweight champion of the world then IMO you've got some pop. Maybe if George was from Eastern Europe he'd get some props :rolleyes:
Thank you, I thought it was just me and some other posters that had figured out he is so wrong it is laughable.
Please put forth your argument about foreman being 'the greatest puncher of all time'!
I will be waiting...
Kabong has done it already.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Listen, I'm the biggest fan of the Klitschko brothers there is but Foreman has a better KO%.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
I'm pretty sure Vitali has the best ko% next to Marciano but any difference between the brothers and Foreman is negligible at best.
Langford probably blows everyone away with more ko's then Foreman and Tyson combined and when you consider his size in comparison to many of his victims its not close.
Maybe Zarate has a better % but he also fought a much smaller amount of people.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
I would divide Foreman's career in two. After all, they were spaced 10 years apart, and 1987 George was a totally different fighter than 1977 George. Throughout his first career, George had a KO ratio of 89.4%, higher than both Marciano and Vitali.
Carlos Zarate's ratio was 90% (63 KO's in 70 fights), and as you can see he had a large number of fights. I was curious about our own Wilfredo Gomez and looked him up. He finished with a very high KO ratio of 87.5% as well.
In considering Foreman's power versus Vitali's or Marciano's, I think you should take into account the number of early (such as 1st round) knockouts as well. Both Foreman and Tyson had a slew of those in the peak of their careers. I didn't check to see how these stack up against Vitali or Marciano.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Philosopher is obsessed with size and weight not about skill, technique, accuracy and natural power which is what punching power is about.
Think he's more obsessed with being a shit throwing tool frankly. Foreman with an iffy beard. For fuck sake :p
Maybe if George was from Eastern Europe he'd get some props :rolleyes:
This is the impression I get from him too. Not many props are given to U.S. fighters for whatever reason. For example, I'd bet if Ali was a U.K fighter he'd use the same stats to reason why he was amazing and if Klitschko was an American, he'd use the same stats to argue how over rated he was. Strange man.
You can't form an opinion on a fighter strictly based on Google. You gotta watch his fights and know something about the era and about the opponents he faced.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
U spend hours wiping your body down with womens blusher! LOL.
Don't cry just because we differ on opinion. Do u really want to turn the thread into a personal thing?
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Quote:
Kabong has done it already
Can't u think for yourself? Your argument please?
Look, George get's overrated, sorry but he does.
George fought in the Golden Era alongside Muhammad Ali and was involved in one of the biggest fights ever, the Rumble In The Jungle, so he was a very high profile boxer. He then became the oldest heavyweight champion ever at 45, a great news story which made him famous again all around the world. George is known to be one of the most charismatic and media-friendly boxers ever, there are not many who can match his level of fame and recognition.
I think this has clouded the facts of his actual boxing career.
217lb Foreman beat Frazier twice (the second fight joe was overweight and totally shot!) You can't argue with the first win i suppose, Frazier was a great fghter, But they are wins of there time!! Does beating a chinny, 205lb fighter who medically would be unft to fight today give ppl the right to suggest foreman is the hardest hitter ever! How does he hit harder than Tyson, Tua, Lewis, The K2, Bowe etc? I don't see what was so awe inspiringly great about his career really at all. Foreman was great because he fought Ali! That's it isn't it?
He stopped Norton in two, but I'm not sure how impressive a feat that was. I think Norton is too highly rated because he was a tough match stylistically for Ali. Norton had been KO'd by a journeyman before he fought Big George, and both Earnie Shavers and Gerry Cooney put him away in the 1st round (this is maybe a bit unfair as Norton was well past-prime by then, but two 1st round KO defeats are there on his record). Norton also never won a world title an was annihilted by 188 lbs Garcia! Norton Freezes against punchers, admitted to being intimidated easily by them. Norton was put down over a dozen times in his career...
George was very very nearly KO'd by Ron Lyle (the Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman of the Golden Era maybe??), and lost to Jimmy Young (record 20-5-2 at the time) - not a shock KO due to complacency like Lewis or wlad suffered, but simply a defeat by a better boxer on the night.
And that was that for Big George in the Golden Era. World champion for one year. Two great wins against the same opponent, one or two good wins, KO'd by Ali, took to the absolute brink by Lyle, beaten and floored by featherfisted Young. Young lost to Randy Neumann who was a two time loser to Chuck Wepner ffs! And was beaten easy by green Cooney! Cooney has a case for hitting harder than foreman considering he made easier work of lyle, norton and young.
The comeback was thoroughly underwhelming. Years of mediocrity alleviated by a one-punch KO of a former light-heavyweight champion after having been completely outboxed. Best wins were that win over Moorer, Moorer's fellow former lhw Qawi, and guys the standard of Cooper. Foreman got a gift v Axel Schulz in his first defence and was stripped for refusing to rematch him Yet we are to believe he was loking for a tyson fight!! Please...He couldn't beat a young and much more vulnerable shannon briggs convincingly!
For me, there is just no way that this is the career of a top 10 heavyweight, and certainly not the career of the hardest puncher ever!! I'm not being obnoxious, I don't even think he comes close. I do believe he is maybe the most overrated fighter ever because of his fame.
I am open to hearing the other side of the argument though, if anyone feels I am being unfair in my assessment of Big George's accomplishments in the ring??
I guess we are going to hear that Lyle was great because he lost to Ali and Foreman?Jerry Judge and Jose Roman lost to Foreman, so that must make them great too i suppose!
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
"Foreman is great because he fought Ali! That's it isn't it?"
:vd: ....I guess there's no arguing with you. It's not like George Foreman had a 76 (68 KO)-5 record with an 83.9 KO percentage over a span of 4 decades and was the oldest heavyweight champion of the world. It's not as if George Foreman had only started boxing a year before winning Olympic Gold in Mexico City.
You compare Ron Lyle to Oliver McCall & Hasim Rahman?!?! That's ridiculous. If there were as many belts back in the 1970's as there are today then Ron Lyle would have held on to more than a few of them he was a tough as nails fighter who got into boxing late and had already had a brush with death before he got into the sport.
George Foreman is great because he was a dominant force in the heavyweight division as long as he fought. He only ever suffered 1 stoppage loss and that was to Ali one of the greatest boxers of all time. Foreman won by KO/TKO vs guys like Frazier, Norton, Lyle, Cooney, Moorer, and so on...guys who were very good fighters and in some cases about 15-20 years younger than George. To say he's famous or thought of as great ONLY because he fought Ali is idiotic, I don't beleive that you honestly think that but if you do you need to seek help.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
I wish u would all grow the fuck up and stop thinking every single criticism is an attempt to "hate" on a fighter. I like Big George, but the fact that I do is one of the reasons I believe I may have overrated him in the past, and so I was putting forward an argument in anticipation of a mature and reasonable response from those on the other side. It's a debating forum....I don't need to 'seek help' just because i can blow away the hyperbole! LOL
To respond:
- Read my post again. Do i give George credit for the frazier win? Yes. However frazier would have no impact against the top tier over the past 15 years or so IMO. You don't have to agree...
- Jimmy Young beat him, fair and square. All the excuses in the world don't change that. He also put him down so any notions of foremans chin being rock solid are defunct.
- Ron Lyle was not a great heavyweight, plain and simple. All the excuses in the world won't change that either. Respect to foreman for coming back after that beating from lyle and stopping him though!
- Going 24-0 in his comeback was not overly impressive when you consider the dire standard of opposition he was facing. Foreman's 90s career was carefully scripted. That is to be accepted though considering his age. Morrison easily beat him.
- Going 12 rounds against Holyfield is not a staggering achievement. It's a good achievement, but not spectacular. Respect for the holy fight but he was comprehensively outboxed in it!
-Kayoing norton is nothing special as he was stopped by188lb garcia a 5-1 underdog. Garcia put the much heavier Norton on the deck in the 1st round and staggered him in the 5th and 7th rounds. In the 8th, Garcia floored Norton again with 15 seconds left. He got up again, and Garcia put him down again just as the bell rang. Norton stumbled to his corner and collapsed. That is a brutalisation. Norton never won a title.
- He one-punched former lhw champion Michael Moorer. Again, a good achievement but nothing incredible. George's punching power is one thing that i dont doubt but i certainly dont think he is the GREATEST PUNCHER EVER! Do yourself a favour, go watch the Axel Schulz fight!
Terry Anderson, Adilson Rodriguez, Bert Cooper, Tony Fulialangi, Steve Zouski and Ken Lakusta third tier at best! I can't believe u are highlighting the cooney fight! Drug abused and boozed out Cooney a legitimate threat is a joke of the highest order.
Foreman KO Frazier, Foreman KO Moorer, that should not equate to foreman being the hardest hitter ever and nor should it equate to him running over most of the top HW's ever too! Consider too that he had size advantages over them both aswell and that frazier was decked twice by bonavena ( In fact he and was lucky to escape with a SD over him!) And we all know about moorers chin! Frazier was hurt by featherfist bugner too...
Foreman had a good chin all in all though, nice power, great fighter in the 70's but ultimately beatable if u could negate his power! He was outboxed by Ali and then Young in his prime, and had a life n death war with average lyle (who was lucky to escape with a win over bugner!) no excuses.
P.s I may have been a bit facetious with the 'Because he fought ali' point but still....Anyway peace out folks.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Ok he's not a hev but I just want to try and put things into perspective instead of "squabbling over the scraps of Longshanks table";D
The little man from Tylorstown Wales. Over 100 ko’s in about 140 fights. Don’t go check that stat at boxrec. They have terrible statistics for a few eras. Anyway I digress, a lot of these guys with massive ko% have only fought say 40 plus fights so imo the actual math can be deceiving and that’s only one reason for ko percentages to be looked at and scrutinized instead of taking the number and then making all kinds of generalizations from it. You can’t have an absolute when you start off with a shaky premise.
I mean Valero had a 100% ko ratio.
I can’t ever recall any fighter that made so many others quit. Whats even more impressive by the little Welshman is that he only lost four times and two of the 3 stoppages he suffered were in his last two fights when he was already long done. Now if people included his tent fight days knocking out guys at times that were 3 or 4 times his size he would have to get the knod. He’s definitely in my #1 spot as the biggest puncher that ever lived.
Carry on.
Re: Wladimirs resume is excellent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
I wish u would all grow the fuck up
Listen here, you can't go around and attempt to say "I'm not hating on a fighter just by offering criticism" when you throw shit like that out first.
I take great offense to your posting. Not because you criticize 'Big' George Foreman an all-time great heavyweight but the reason you do so is to attempt to boost Wladimir Klitschko a fighter whom I have great respect for and a fighter who has great respect for those who came before him, so much so that Wladimir himself is unwilling to discuss his place among the greats until his career is over. You don't boost Wladimir's achievements in the sport by trying to minimize what other GREAT fighters have done. I don't just bandy the term great around with no thought. So my advice to you is show some respect.
