Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Ftr I also do not believe that Marquez's new chiseled look means he was juicing. When a guy of his stature goes on a special diet and hits the weights and tones up, a couple of pounds looks much more pronounced then the same weight gained by bigger men.
In addition his weight gain from the third fight was minimal and in fact only a pound. He actually dropped 2 pounds prior to the 4th fight against Fedchenko. If the guy was juicing surly he would put more weight on then a pound.
If he wanted to put more weight on he would have if juicing but if he didn't want the extra weight he wouldn't have put it on.
Im not saying he did either. And if he was I wouldn't contribute the ko against Pac soley to juicing. How ever the juice could have gave him that extra snap, strength and endurance to get the ko.
Any fighter (or athlete) who uses PED's will get gains in weeks that would have normally taken months. That's unfair as shit especially in fighting.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cambay411
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Ftr I also do not believe that Marquez's new chiseled look means he was juicing. When a guy of his stature goes on a special diet and hits the weights and tones up, a couple of pounds looks much more pronounced then the same weight gained by bigger men.
In addition his weight gain from the third fight was minimal and in fact only a pound. He actually dropped 2 pounds prior to the 4th fight against Fedchenko. If the guy was juicing surly he would put more weight on then a pound.
If he wanted to put more weight on he would have if juicing but if he didn't want the extra weight he wouldn't have put it on.
Im not saying he did either. And if he was I wouldn't contribute the ko against Pac soley to juicing. How ever the juice could have gave him that extra snap, strength and endurance to get the ko.
Any fighter (or athlete) who uses PED's will get gains in weeks that would have normally taken months. That's unfair as shit especially in fighting.
He would have put more then a pound with that muscle look and would have probably been 147 not 143. His body is not any more proof of juicing then that punch was.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cambay411
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Ftr I also do not believe that Marquez's new chiseled look means he was juicing. When a guy of his stature goes on a special diet and hits the weights and tones up, a couple of pounds looks much more pronounced then the same weight gained by bigger men.
In addition his weight gain from the third fight was minimal and in fact only a pound. He actually dropped 2 pounds prior to the 4th fight against Fedchenko. If the guy was juicing surly he would put more weight on then a pound.
If he wanted to put more weight on he would have if juicing but if he didn't want the extra weight he wouldn't have put it on.
Im not saying he did either. And if he was I wouldn't contribute the ko against Pac soley to juicing. How ever the juice could have gave him that extra snap, strength and endurance to get the ko.
Any fighter (or athlete) who uses PED's will get gains in weeks that would have normally taken months. That's unfair as shit especially in fighting.
He would have put more then a pound with that muscle look and would have probably been 147 not 143. His body is not any more proof of juicing then that punch was.
If he did it naturally he would have put on more than a pound with all that extra muscle.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cambay411
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Ftr I also do not believe that Marquez's new chiseled look means he was juicing. When a guy of his stature goes on a special diet and hits the weights and tones up, a couple of pounds looks much more pronounced then the same weight gained by bigger men.
In addition his weight gain from the third fight was minimal and in fact only a pound. He actually dropped 2 pounds prior to the 4th fight against Fedchenko. If the guy was juicing surly he would put more weight on then a pound.
If he wanted to put more weight on he would have if juicing but if he didn't want the extra weight he wouldn't have put it on.
Im not saying he did either. And if he was I wouldn't contribute the ko against Pac soley to juicing. How ever the juice could have gave him that extra snap, strength and endurance to get the ko.
Any fighter (or athlete) who uses PED's will get gains in weeks that would have normally taken months. That's unfair as shit especially in fighting.
He would have put more then a pound with that muscle look and would have probably been 147 not 143. His body is not any more proof of juicing then that punch was.
He'd been trying to time Pac for how many rounds? Finally nailed it, and him.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Not to mention Pac has probably used PED's for years so if JMM did use for that fight then he just evened the field a bit. That KO probably should have happened in the first fight.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cambay411
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Ftr I also do not believe that Marquez's new chiseled look means he was juicing. When a guy of his stature goes on a special diet and hits the weights and tones up, a couple of pounds looks much more pronounced then the same weight gained by bigger men.
In addition his weight gain from the third fight was minimal and in fact only a pound. He actually dropped 2 pounds prior to the 4th fight against Fedchenko. If the guy was juicing surly he would put more weight on then a pound.
If he wanted to put more weight on he would have if juicing but if he didn't want the extra weight he wouldn't have put it on.
Im not saying he did either. And if he was I wouldn't contribute the ko against Pac soley to juicing. How ever the juice could have gave him that extra snap, strength and endurance to get the ko.
Any fighter (or athlete) who uses PED's will get gains in weeks that would have normally taken months. That's unfair as shit especially in fighting.
He would have put more then a pound with that muscle look and would have probably been 147 not 143. His body is not any more proof of juicing then that punch was.
He'd been trying to time Pac for how many rounds? Finally nailed it, and him.
Agreed as you know.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Cam are you telling me that journeyman don't juice they probably do it more then top guys but still cant win because they cant box well enough. It really is only unfair if most people aren't doing which i do not think is the case. If they are going to make the tests such joke they might as well make it legal to do.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Cam are you telling me that journeyman don't juice they probably do it more then top guys but still cant win because they cant box well enough. It really is only unfair if most people aren't doing which i do not think is the case. If they are going to make the tests such joke they might as well make it legal to do.
No doubt journey men do.
Lets use this JMM vs Pac fight again for example. Pac is probably a rager. PED's likely gave him the ability, reaction, strength and reflexes to stay with JMM for 3 fights.
JMM comes in shredded for the 4th fight. Better than hes ever looked and at the age of 38!!! All the sudden the playing field is even and he KO's Pac in 6.
On an even playing field it would have been far more likely to happen in the first fight. Not to mention to 2nd and 3rd.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cambay411
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Cam are you telling me that journeyman don't juice they probably do it more then top guys but still cant win because they cant box well enough. It really is only unfair if most people aren't doing which i do not think is the case. If they are going to make the tests such joke they might as well make it legal to do.
No doubt journey men do.
Lets use this JMM vs Pac fight again for example. Pac is probably a rager. PED's likely gave him the ability, reaction, strength and reflexes to stay with JMM for 3 fights.
JMM comes in shredded for the 4th fight. Better than hes ever looked and at the age of 38!!! All the sudden the playing field is even and he KO's Pac in 6.
On an even playing field it would have been far more likely to happen in the first fight. Not to mention to 2nd and 3rd.
JMM only won 1 of those 4 fights. Not fair to JMM (if Pacs a juicer)
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Can you pick out when he juiced because as far as i know he passed all the test. That is the problem with the unfair cant tell when any of them started to or if they might of stopped testing is bad. If you want fair your not going to get it with a system like we have now and do you really care if juicing was legal to do in sports. We as fans always look for the best showing so if it can enhance the entertainment i am not sure why it is still illegal to do it seems like a real big step back wards why would we not want better people to watch.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
I like how Page 9 of the "Lets end the Mike Tyson debate" now includes Juan Manuel Marquez and steroids too!
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I like how Page 9 of the "Lets end the Mike Tyson debate" now includes Juan Manuel Marquez and steroids too!
I was wondering the same. Tyson was not on PED drugs.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Can you pick out when he juiced because as far as i know he passed all the test. That is the problem with the unfair cant tell when any of them started to or if they might of stopped testing is bad. If you want fair your not going to get it with a system like we have now and do you really care if juicing was legal to do in sports. We as fans always look for the best showing so if it can enhance the entertainment i am not sure why it is still illegal to do it seems like a real big step back wards why would we not want better people to watch.
I hate the fact that you cant look at a champion fighter these days and know if they did it fair or not.
If a fighter does get caught that will change my entire opinion of them. To me it means they are weak and scared and not even true fighters. They are to scared to do it without PED's. Shortcuts aren't the way of a true fighter imo.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
I like how Page 9 of the "Lets end the Mike Tyson debate" now includes Juan Manuel Marquez and steroids too!
I was wondering the same. Tyson was not on PED drugs.
And the thing is we didn't even come close to ending the Tyson debate.
Re: Lets end the Mike Tyson debate
I think it is funny you call anyone who gets in the ring scared have you ever done anything as daring i doubt you have ever in your life. As for the peds fuck yea they do them if they can make more money stay longer there on borrowed time, shit you shoot up to if it meant you could keep making money.
