Top Amateurs need to start faster
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By holmcall
... I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fighter more ready for the pros - -Dan Birmingham singing the praises of Matt Korobov
Wilder needs someone that can stay in there with him long enough for him to develop his skills, and frankly a D class opponent that folds in the first minute of action isn’t going to get the job done --Jim Dower (Boxing News)
Teddy Atlas is absolutely correct. Too many of these Olympians and other quality amateurs who have over 100 fights are wasting their time (and our’s) by fighting low level opposition. However, he also needs to apply that viewpoint to “one of the greatest amateurs of all time” (reportedly his words). When 2000 and 2004 Olympic gold medalist Guillermo Rigondeaux (who had over 400 amateur fights), beat Juan Noriega in his pro debut, it was a disgraceful mismatch. When he followed this up by stopping “Big Bob” Guillen, it was even worse. Neither fight proved anything. The 28 year old Cuban will need to step up rapidly if he is to become champion in a very tough division—something that fellow Cuban Yuriorkis Gamboa has gone about doing the right way; he has set the standard. It’s now up to the other not-so-young Cubans to follow suit.
Heavyweight Deontay Wilder is 7-0 with 7 KOs, but his opposition has been as bad as any I have ever seen. He has fought 905 seconds in seven fights. That’s about 2 minutes per fight. The 6’7” 215 pound Wilder is not doing himself any good by this.
Russian Matt Korobov beat Mario Evangelista (1-1-1) in his pro debut. Swell. Now he needs to start showcasing his amateur record of 310-11 against better competition. Benjamin Diaz (10-2-2) is a start; let’s build on it.
Danny Jacobs
One of many things I like about Brooklyn’s Danny Jacobs is that he is on a fast track. With his celebrated amateur record, the “Golden Child” has wasted no time in moving to an 18-0 record. But it appears that early on, he may have replaced quality with quantity and frequency. Jacobs had ten fights in 2008 and 5 so far in 2009. Finally, however, he is now fighting at a level more attuned to his legendary amateur accomplishments. With consecutive wins over tough Ishe Smith (21-3), George Walton, and the rugged “Midnight Stalker,” Michale Walker, Danny has stepped up, but surely he could have done this sooner and fought say someone like Jose Varela earlier in his career. Fighting designated losers’ helped pad his record, but did little to help him. I had him pegged as a power puncher, but in reality that was because he was knocking out poor opponents. Atlas was correct when he noted this on ESPN during the Varela fight even though Jacobs won by a KO.
Kostya Tszyu
The great Tszyu retired in 2005 with a deceptively inactive 31-2 record--deceptive because he had gone up against stiff opposition virtually from the very start of his pro career. In fact, he beat Juan LaPorte in his fourth fight. His second pro opponent had 33 fights.
Oh yes, he compiled an amateur record of 259-11 before turning pro, but unlike so many top amateurs today (and particularly some of the Cubans), he hit the road running and dispensed with walk over fights—and that’s the point of this thread.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
I totally agree!
Managers, Promoters, and the fighters themselves need to get on the ball and test themselves in every fight. It isn't right that it takes guys so long to get up to speed! Wilder might need time to get settled but there are better guys he can fight than what he has been getting in the ring with, 900 seconds of fighting doesn't teach him anything and it doesn't allow him to get comfortable going longer rounds.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Agree absolutely.
Obviously for promoters, managers etc its all about money. They know they can make a few quid by padding a guy's record and maneuvering him into some sort of title shot. IMO, if they had faith in thier fighter they would push them much earlier. What promoters need to realise is that this tactic will eventually COST them money. For them to make money, boxing needs to thrive and maintain popular support. A succession of dud fights does nothing for the popularity of the sport, and thus the pot of money available in boxing will decrease. They have a short-termist approach which whilst it might make them some quick cash it is certainly not a sustainable model. Also, the casual fan's obsession with the perfect record adds to the promoters desire to keep feeding their prospects human punch bags. People need to remember that a loss, even at an early stage in the career, is not a disaster.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
To be fair Rigondeaux is stepping it up heavily in his next fight, a 10 round contest with Giovanni Andrade who fought Juan Manuel Lopez just 2 years ago. Should he win this I have no doubt he'll step up again. I'm not a huge Rigondeaux fan like Taeth but he does now appear to be doing his bit so fair play to him.
Jacobs seems to have come on pretty well to me, I was very impressed with his performance live against Walker, particularly as he'd only taken on short notice an opponent originally scheduled for James Kirkland.
I agree about Wilder though, he's fighting guys who tomato cans dismiss as not challenging enough. Korobov also seems to have done too much to fast, I thought he was lucky to get away with it against Loren Myers who had him buzzed & even Top Rank PPV had Korobov drawing, so he obviously got a shutout. Whilst Diaz on paper appeared a step-up, in reality he was actually a weaker fighter who had built his record up against 1st timers & serial losers in Mexico.
Here in the UK, we've got Tyson Fury & Derek Chisora (both of whom I detest), but who to be fair have taken tough fights from the get go.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
To be fair Rigondeaux is stepping it up heavily in his next fight, a 10 round contest with Giovanni Andrade who fought Juan Manuel Lopez just 2 years ago. Should he win this I have no doubt he'll step up again. I'm not a huge Rigondeaux fan like Taeth but he does now appear to be doing his bit so fair play to him.
Jacobs seems to have come on pretty well to me, I was very impressed with his performance live against Walker, particularly as he'd only taken on short notice an opponent originally scheduled for James Kirkland.
I agree about Wilder though, he's fighting guys who tomato cans dismiss as not challenging enough. Korobov also seems to have done too much to fast, I thought he was lucky to get away with it against Loren Myers who had him buzzed & even Top Rank PPV had Korobov drawing, so he obviously got a shutout. Whilst Diaz on paper appeared a step-up, in reality he was actually a weaker fighter who had built his record up against 1st timers & serial losers in Mexico.
Here in the UK, we've got Tyson Fury & Derek Chisora (both of whom I detest), but who to be fair have taken tough fights from the get go.
A careful review of Giovanni's record tells the story. Eveytime he stepped up, he either got waxed or lost by decision. Hell, JML iced him in a matter of seconds. I remember Johnny Tapia starching him abou 13 years ago. He fights and KOs grim opposition. On paper, it looks like a step up. In reality, he will be iced within two minutes. He also fights a lot of the same opponents multiple times. He has also fought outside of Brazil and is 4-10 whil doing so. The guy is as done as burnt toast insodar as Guillermo is concerned.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
I disagree about Wilder, he's a strange case, he didn't even have many amateur fights If I remember correctly and he's obviously raw as hell. Maybe he should be in a bit tougher but if he's in tougher it should be with just slightly tougher cans, he's not ready and is learning on the job. You just can't compare him to a Kostya Tsyzu who was incomparably more ready to be a pro than a guy like Wilder.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
To be fair Rigondeaux is stepping it up heavily in his next fight, a 10 round contest with Giovanni Andrade who fought Juan Manuel Lopez just 2 years ago. Should he win this I have no doubt he'll step up again. I'm not a huge Rigondeaux fan like Taeth but he does now appear to be doing his bit so fair play to him.
Jacobs seems to have come on pretty well to me, I was very impressed with his performance live against Walker, particularly as he'd only taken on short notice an opponent originally scheduled for James Kirkland.
I agree about Wilder though, he's fighting guys who tomato cans dismiss as not challenging enough. Korobov also seems to have done too much to fast, I thought he was lucky to get away with it against Loren Myers who had him buzzed & even Top Rank PPV had Korobov drawing, so he obviously got a shutout. Whilst Diaz on paper appeared a step-up, in reality he was actually a weaker fighter who had built his record up against 1st timers & serial losers in Mexico.
Here in the UK, we've got Tyson Fury & Derek Chisora (both of whom I detest), but who to be fair have taken tough fights from the get go.
A careful review of Giovanni's record tells the story. Eveytime he stepped up, he either got waxed or lost by decision. Hell, JML iced him in a matter of seconds. I remember Johnny Tapia starching him abou 13 years ago. He fights and KOs grim opposition. On paper, it looks like a step up. In reality, he will be iced within two minutes. He also fights a lot of the same opponents multiple times. He has also fought outside of Brazil and is 4-10 whil doing so. The guy is as done as burnt toast insodar as Guillermo is concerned.
I'm aware of that, however regardless of that he's still a difficult opponent for only a 3rd professional fight. I've no doubt Rigondeaux beats him & handily, but the number of rounds (10) also makes it an impressive fight, given it being only his 3rd.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
To be fair Rigondeaux is stepping it up heavily in his next fight, a 10 round contest with Giovanni Andrade who fought Juan Manuel Lopez just 2 years ago. Should he win this I have no doubt he'll step up again. I'm not a huge Rigondeaux fan like Taeth but he does now appear to be doing his bit so fair play to him.
Jacobs seems to have come on pretty well to me, I was very impressed with his performance live against Walker, particularly as he'd only taken on short notice an opponent originally scheduled for James Kirkland.
I agree about Wilder though, he's fighting guys who tomato cans dismiss as not challenging enough. Korobov also seems to have done too much to fast, I thought he was lucky to get away with it against Loren Myers who had him buzzed & even Top Rank PPV had Korobov drawing, so he obviously got a shutout. Whilst Diaz on paper appeared a step-up, in reality he was actually a weaker fighter who had built his record up against 1st timers & serial losers in Mexico.
Here in the UK, we've got Tyson Fury & Derek Chisora (both of whom I detest), but who to be fair have taken tough fights from the get go.
A careful review of Giovanni's record tells the story. Eveytime he stepped up, he either got waxed or lost by decision. Hell, JML iced him in a matter of seconds. I remember Johnny Tapia starching him abou 13 years ago. He fights and KOs grim opposition. On paper, it looks like a step up. In reality, he will be iced within two minutes. He also fights a lot of the same opponents multiple times. He has also fought outside of Brazil and is 4-10 whil doing so. The guy is as done as burnt toast insodar as Guillermo is concerned.
I'm aware of that, however regardless of that he's still a difficult opponent for only a 3rd professional fight. I've no doubt Rigondeaux beats him & handily, but the number of rounds (10) also makes it an impressive fight, given it being only his 3rd.
Well, I'd have to disagree with due respect. The Cuban to me is going in there with God knows how many anature bouts and Gold medals in different tournaments. Andrade is dreadful. See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OCXJlMa0Kc
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
To be fair Rigondeaux is stepping it up heavily in his next fight, a 10 round contest with Giovanni Andrade who fought Juan Manuel Lopez just 2 years ago. Should he win this I have no doubt he'll step up again. I'm not a huge Rigondeaux fan like Taeth but he does now appear to be doing his bit so fair play to him.
Jacobs seems to have come on pretty well to me, I was very impressed with his performance live against Walker, particularly as he'd only taken on short notice an opponent originally scheduled for James Kirkland.
I agree about Wilder though, he's fighting guys who tomato cans dismiss as not challenging enough. Korobov also seems to have done too much to fast, I thought he was lucky to get away with it against Loren Myers who had him buzzed & even Top Rank PPV had Korobov drawing, so he obviously got a shutout. Whilst Diaz on paper appeared a step-up, in reality he was actually a weaker fighter who had built his record up against 1st timers & serial losers in Mexico.
Here in the UK, we've got Tyson Fury & Derek Chisora (both of whom I detest), but who to be fair have taken tough fights from the get go.
A careful review of Giovanni's record tells the story. Eveytime he stepped up, he either got waxed or lost by decision. Hell, JML iced him in a matter of seconds. I remember Johnny Tapia starching him abou 13 years ago. He fights and KOs grim opposition. On paper, it looks like a step up. In reality, he will be iced within two minutes. He also fights a lot of the same opponents multiple times. He has also fought outside of Brazil and is 4-10 whil doing so. The guy is as done as burnt toast insodar as Guillermo is concerned.
I'm aware of that, however regardless of that he's still a difficult opponent for only a 3rd professional fight. I've no doubt Rigondeaux beats him & handily, but the number of rounds (10) also makes it an impressive fight, given it being only his 3rd.
Really he's not. One look at his record says it all. He's a D level fighter who's bulid up his win total by beating fellow D and F leval fighters. I would not consider him a step up
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
A careful review of Giovanni's record tells the story. Eveytime he stepped up, he either got waxed or lost by decision. Hell, JML iced him in a matter of seconds. I remember Johnny Tapia starching him abou 13 years ago. He fights and KOs grim opposition. On paper, it looks like a step up. In reality, he will be iced within two minutes. He also fights a lot of the same opponents multiple times. He has also fought outside of Brazil and is 4-10 whil doing so. The guy is as done as burnt toast insodar as Guillermo is concerned.
I'm aware of that, however regardless of that he's still a difficult opponent for only a 3rd professional fight. I've no doubt Rigondeaux beats him & handily, but the number of rounds (10) also makes it an impressive fight, given it being only his 3rd.
Really he's not. One look at his record says it all. He's a D level fighter who's bulid up his win total by beating fellow D and F leval fighters. I would not consider him a step up
Fair enough, but I still think that fighting 10 rounds in only his 3rd pro fight is worthy of credit. On another note, I was doing the boxrec thing & saw Rigondeaux's last tomato can beat the only man to ever beat Nonito Donaire. So following Hatton-hugger logic (Hatton KO'd Castillo who Mayweather only closely beat) that must mean that Rigondeaux is now pound for pound top 10. Taeth will be happy ;D
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
The guy's about to have his third fight ;D
Three fights. 3. Who cares what a guy does in his first three fights?
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
I agree completely. I see some of these amateurs like Demetrius Andrade or Danny O'Connor and look at the guys they are fighting and that makes me not waste my time to watch them, because the result of the fight is already determined before the first bell. Tszyu, De La Hoya, among other top amateurs fought stiff opposition from the start and that only helped them to grow as fighters. Getting used to fighting no-hoper only makes a fighter get lazy or complacent.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Kostya was born for the pros. He was a natural finisher and went after his man more than points so I think the transition came more naturally to him as well.
Re: Top Amateurs need to start faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I'm aware of that, however regardless of that he's still a difficult opponent for only a 3rd professional fight. I've no doubt Rigondeaux beats him & handily, but the number of rounds (10) also makes it an impressive fight, given it being only his 3rd.
Really he's not. One look at his record says it all. He's a D level fighter who's bulid up his win total by beating fellow D and F leval fighters. I would not consider him a step up
Fair enough, but I still think that fighting 10 rounds in only his 3rd pro fight is worthy of credit. On another note, I was doing the boxrec thing & saw Rigondeaux's last tomato can beat the only man to ever beat Nonito Donaire. So following Hatton-hugger logic (Hatton KO'd Castillo who Mayweather only closely beat) that must mean that Rigondeaux is now pound for pound top 10. Taeth will be happy ;D
Sorry what has Rigondeaux done so far to not prove him to be a future top boxer in the sport? After watching him, and all his fights that are on youtube, how can you not be convinced of how good he is? Or do we have to weight for him to beat guys like Vazquez, JML, Marquez, and Gamboa? Because it will happen in the next couple of years.
