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This question was asked of me on a non-boxing forum, and I completely have no idea. So maybe some of you guys can help or give some insight. I dont even know if these stats are available, but if so cool, if not, give me your opinions and Ill pass them along.
Exactly worded as such,
"what percentage of modern serious fights, serious being say title fights and other fights between established names, end in actual knockouts, not TKOs?"
Thanks!
I'd say somewhere around 5 percent. It seems to me anymore the fight is immediatley stopped rather than a fighter being counted out. I can't really think of any in recent memory but then again that is not saying to much.
tnx The Fightfan for taking a stab at it.
C'mon u guys, fookin guess or sumthin. :shakehead:
You would have to elaborate more. I mean,how long back are we going here? 5, 10yrs? Dont know off-hand myself but im sure you could get your hands on the title fight results alone then have an educated guess on the other big fights from your memory or whatever. Im sure you could get a good ball-park figure. I think it would be more than 5% personally as im pretty sure more than 1 in 20 big fights end in a clean knockout although maybe not much more.
Well it does happen more often than 5% of the time I believe.
It must be at least 25% of the time in Ricky Hatton fights :)
Let's think, Hatton has been sparked twice, Manny sparked David Diaz too. Roy Jones was knocked unconscious twice, did Margarito beat the count against Mosely? Can't remember although I know Mayorga didn't.
Juan Diaz failed to get up against Marquez, I think Casamayor was out for the count against Marquez too? And I'm sure Katsidis didn't get up against Casa himself.
It happens more often than you'd realise I guess, but actually considering how many world titles their are now, virtually every fight is a title fight, so the figure may not be that high in comparison.
10% maybe actual KO's, rising to 40% when you account for TKO's, stoppages on cuts, and the towel being thrown in. I'd say another 5% for freak stoppages, disqualifications, headbutts etc, so prob 55% of fights go the distance, 45 end early, with 10% being clean ko's.
Of course I just made these stats up on the spot but if Jazmerkin, AdamGb or Missy disagree I fully intend to defend them as accurate and will pull up all manner of google resources to prove my invented stats are legit :p
I'd agree with Bilbo's numbers, not the 5%.
is this not what the question is though, those fights you listed will have all gone down as tkos would they not because there was no actual countQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
there was no count in margarito - mosley, the ref stepped in to stop before margarito even got knocked down the second time
the most brutal ko's ironically normally are not recorded as ko's because the ref will stop it without a count
Is that true?Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonis this not what the question is though, those fights you listed will have all gone down as tkos would they not because there was no actual countQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
there was no count in margarito - mosley, the ref stepped in to stop before margarito even got knocked down the second time
the most brutal ko's ironically normally are not recorded as ko's because the ref will stop it without a count
I just checked Hatton and although Manny got the KO, Floyds win is listed as a TKO which kind of seems like bollocks to me.
Actually maybe he did get to his feet in that. I remember him being check hooked into the corner post, getting up then being knocked down again, at which point the ref stopped it.
I would DEFINITELY call that a ko, although it doesn't suprise me at all that they would be incompetent enough to rule it a tko. :-\
I think the referee stepped in to stop it as Hatton was falling down against the ropes again...
boxrec has it as a ko your right, but yet they also have marqeuz - diaz as a tko when the ref stopped both without a count
if were going by their true definitions boths fights were TKO's as there was no ten count
come to think of it i cant even remember the last time a title fight ended in a true KO
ya that seems kinda strange to me. you'd think if anythng deserves a ko it is the dude not making it thru the count because the ref. considered saving his life might take priority at that moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0bJJaqdHPg
yeah that was a TKO. I'm not sure the reason for the gay music, it threw me off.
think doing it by the proper definitions of a 'ko' or 'TKO' is the only fair way to record these stoppagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Youngbloodya that seems kinda strange to me. you'd think if anythng deserves a ko it is the dude not making it thru the count because the ref. considered saving his life might take priority at that moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
for example hatton and david diaz werent gonna be getting up if there was a 30 second count in their fights against pac,
however take juan diaz against marquez, he may have been able to although all 3 fights were stopped without a count
is it fair for marquez to get the 'KO' ?
Of course it's fair! Watch the fight hereQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonthink doing it by the proper definitions of a 'ko' or 'TKO' is the only fair way to record these stoppagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Youngbloodya that seems kinda strange to me. you'd think if anythng deserves a ko it is the dude not making it thru the count because the ref. considered saving his life might take priority at that moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
for example hatton and david diaz werent gonna be getting up if there was a 30 second count in their fights against pac,
however take juan diaz against marquez, he may have been able to although all 3 fights were stopped without a count
is it fair for marquez to get the 'KO' ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-cw4olewYc
He was done, if they carry on he gets ko'd.
Basically a TKO is no less impressive than a KO anyway, a KO just means knocked out, i.e counted out, a TKO just means the referee stopped the fight because the fighter was clearly about to be KO'd so he intervened for the fighter's safety.
It's like in chess. Very rarely will see an actual checkmate in grandmaster practice, even at amatuer level because the losing player will resign before the mate is delivered.
Does this mean it's less of a win than a genuine checkmate? Of course not, the checkmate was inevitable so they stopped the game early to avoid having to see it played out over the board.
In the Diaz Marquez fight a ko is just as inevitable but it comes also with the health risk to Diaz if its played out so the ref saves him from further punishment.
So it reads TKO, but to all intents and purposes it's a KO, becuase it if carried on Diaz would eventually get hurt so bad he couldn't make the count.
So Marquez deserves the KO, but a TKO is the same thing really, a knockout is a knockout after all.
i agree, but the question was how many title fights actually end up in a true 'ko'Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboOf course it's fair! Watch the fight hereQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonthink doing it by the proper definitions of a 'ko' or 'TKO' is the only fair way to record these stoppagesQuote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
for example hatton and david diaz werent gonna be getting up if there was a 30 second count in their fights against pac,
however take juan diaz against marquez, he may have been able to although all 3 fights were stopped without a count
is it fair for marquez to get the 'KO' ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-cw4olewYc
He was done, if they carry on he gets ko'd.
Basically a TKO is no less impressive than a KO anyway, a KO just means knocked out, i.e counted out, a TKO just means the referee stopped the fight because the fighter was clearly about to be KO'd so he intervened for the fighter's safety.
It's like in chess. Very rarely will see an actual checkmate in grandmaster practice, even at amatuer level because the losing player will resign before the mate is delivered.
Does this mean it's less of a win than a genuine checkmate? Of course not, the checkmate was inevitable so they stopped the game early to avoid having to see it played out over the board.
In the Diaz Marquez fight a ko is just as inevitable but it comes also with the health risk to Diaz if its played out so the ref saves him from further punishment.
So it reads TKO, but to all intents and purposes it's a KO, becuase it if carried on Diaz would eventually get hurt so bad he couldn't make the count.
So Marquez deserves the KO, but a TKO is the same thing really, a knockout is a knockout after all.
look up the definition a proper 'ko' is classified by the refree completing a ten count, if it is stopped prior to this, then its a TKO,
and to say marquez should get the KO because diaz was about to ko'd is just an assumption ... have you not seen corrales - castillo 1 ? why not just call the fight off when corrales goes down so easilly the second time....it seemed obvious that he was about to get knocked but we know how it actually turned out