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Was Roy Jones chinny?
Was he hiding behind his skill and athleticism the fact that if he was hit on the chin he was liable to get knocked out?
He was knocked down by a southpaw (whose name I forgot) and out by Tarver and Johnson. Then the rest all add to my theory.
I don't think he was before he drained himself back down to 175. Let's face facts RJJ vs Tarver would have been best done either BEFORE the Ruiz fight or after the Ruiz fight at CRUISERWEIGHT where RJJ at 199 would have been just fine. When Roy got KO'd by Tarver he got caught with a HUGE punch from a big puncher, when he got KO'd vs Glen Johnson he was getting out hustled, he had 0 pop in his punches, his stamina wasn't there, and again he got hammered by a guy who could bang pretty good.
That said he never really played with fire in terms of allowing himself to get hit he was always a guy who accepted a punch and then gave back punches harder and faster to quell the attack. He was never a face first brawler obviously.
The southpaw you were thinking of was Lou Delvalle, a former sparring partner of Jones.
I think it was the weight drain that started it. Then the old age it and it was down hill. He used to never get hit, then in Tarver fight he decides to lay on ropes and take blows to the face. All down hill. Athletic abilty dissipated over night
Honeyboy Devalle also was fortunate to have landed that shot- while RJJ was in a corner (i think his) drenched.
I'm not one to defend, but it was both a good shot and his feet-clearly slipped.
He recovered and went on to dominate in RJJ fashion.
And if you can find the introduction...it was Roy's best ring entrance. 3 fine women & ROY dancing in sequenced outfits in sync.
Tidbit- Lou Devalle & his sister Melissa are the only brother-sister duo to win a title- in the amatuers..another small piece of boxing knowledge!
Jones was hit enough before he got to light heavy that we'd have known he was chinny. You can have all the speed and reflexes in the the world, but someones going to time you sooner or later. So if your chinny, and you fight with with your hands down, not to mention clowning and etc, you can expect to get dropped fairly early in your career. Like Zab judah; Bergman, millet, Tszyu, Khan, Cotto, and others had zab down. Generally chinny fighters dont take those kind of chances without adjusting somehow.. and wont prematurely move up in weight class very much to fight guys with extra weight on they're punches if they can drain down and fight guys with less pop on their punches. I think jones had an average chin for his height and weight. He was taking elbows from an over-sized telesco in the corner while mercante sr. did squat in the radio city music all fight.
I disagree J.
RJJ @ MW & LHW had compubox numbers that were silly-stupid in his favor.
I think if we researched those stats we'd find Roy was the least hit fighter...since Floyd.
But there is a myth about RJJ's chin in the amatuers- durable.
When he lost his 3rd bid at the GG...he was a two time winner. He faced Gerald McCellan and they banged.
I know the fighter who talked about but cant think of his name right now. He was one of the amatuers who fought & said it was a war! McCellan won, but he had to wait out a few weeks from a sore jaw.
RJJ was actually able to fight the very next week.
I never paid attention to the numbers. They can be inflated. I've seen him hit enough times to know if he was chinny or not based on how the punch was thrown, landed and how ready he was for it. He wasn't chinny but I wouldn't say he had a granite chin either. He rolled very well and was careful about his positioning. Also take into account that Aside from the headgear and the +2 oz weight difference in gloves from the pros, that many fighters in the GG aren't really polished yet either. I've seen lots of kids in the GG that are not fully turning their punches over, generating power from their stance, their waist and not snapping hooks at the elbows. Not saying roy or the G-man weren't. Its not as bad as the olympics in terms of encouraging numbers instead of power, but its not like the pros. There just tends to be a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
He was tagged on the chin good several times in his career, he always showed a good chin. He just killed himself with the weight drain and age caught up with him.
Look at the case of Chris Byrd: he fought at HW his whole career, took bombs from David Tua, Holyfield, both Klitschkos, DaVaryll Williamson, Golota, and a bunch of other HW bombers and was only stopped a few times. At 38, he decided to cut down to 175 and fought a guy who couldn't punch at 175, and he literally got hurt every time the guy layed a glove on him. He had absolutely no punch resistance.
Jones had lost a lot of weight when he got KOED also many past greats had retired by the age Jones was when his chin got weak , simple fact is , in his prime Jones was untouchable.
It's no biggie, though I am hard pressed to think what fight Roy had, where I can remember anyone landing more than a few punches ...up till Montell Griffin- 34 fights into his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_UndisputedI never paid attention to the numbers. They can be inflated. I've seen him hit enough times to know if he was chinny or not based on how the punch was thrown, landed and how ready he was for it. He wasn't chinny but I wouldn't say he had a granite chin either. He rolled very well and was careful about his positioning. Also take into account that Aside from the headgear and the +2 oz weight difference in gloves from the pros, that many fighters in the GG aren't really polished yet either. I've seen lots of kids in the GG that are not fully turning their punches over, generating power from their stance, their waist and not snapping hooks at the elbows. Not saying roy or the G-man weren't. Its not as bad as the olympics in terms of encouraging numbers instead of power, but its not like the pros. There just tends to be a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Griffin did some hard hitting in fight two...but that was the canvas he hit hard.:rolleyes:
Serioulsy, Devalle & Harding are really the only two names I can think of- up till Tarver & Johnson.
Toney was outclassed- even though he fucked himself by trying to lose what? 20-30lbs inbetween fights? RJJ never got close to being hit with the shit Toney lands on others.
Ruiz got clowned..& with the help of Jay nady who ensured he couldn't fight inside/grappling- Roy never got chin checked by a heavy who dropped Holy.
& the dude I was thinking of is IceMan John Scully.
He wrote a book awhile back where he talks about the war that was never taped between RJJ and Gman.
I use to correspond with him on a few boards and he always deciminated some cool under the radar knowledge.
Well its not the number of punches landed but how good they landed, when and where. It only took one punch from tarver on a drained jones. Jones worked him through the first round.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeIt's no biggie, though I am hard pressed to think what fight Roy had, where I can remember anyone landing more than a few punches ...up till Montell Griffin- 34 fights into his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_UndisputedI never paid attention to the numbers. They can be inflated. I've seen him hit enough times to know if he was chinny or not based on how the punch was thrown, landed and how ready he was for it. He wasn't chinny but I wouldn't say he had a granite chin either. He rolled very well and was careful about his positioning. Also take into account that Aside from the headgear and the +2 oz weight difference in gloves from the pros, that many fighters in the GG aren't really polished yet either. I've seen lots of kids in the GG that are not fully turning their punches over, generating power from their stance, their waist and not snapping hooks at the elbows. Not saying roy or the G-man weren't. Its not as bad as the olympics in terms of encouraging numbers instead of power, but its not like the pros. There just tends to be a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Griffin did some hard hitting in fight two...but that was the canvas he hit hard.:rolleyes:
Serioulsy, Devalle & Harding are really the only two names I can think of- up till Tarver & Johnson.
Toney was outclassed- even though he fucked himself by trying to lose what? 20-30lbs inbetween fights? RJJ never got close to being hit with the shit Toney lands on others.
Ruiz got clowned..& with the help of Jay nady who ensured he couldn't fight inside/grappling- Roy never got chin checked by a heavy who dropped Holy.
& the dude I was thinking of is IceMan John Scully.
He wrote a book awhile back where he talks about the war that was never taped between RJJ and Gman.
I use to correspond with him on a few boards and he always deciminated some cool under the radar knowledge.
I agree harding pressed roy. In the second griffin fight, Roy was progressively looking to walk through griffins punches. You can tell he wanted it so bad, he wasn't going to stop till he got vindication. Toney was drained but he would have always gotten schooled even if he was healthy, roy knew the key to fighting toney was to take away the inside fighting and avoid falling for those traps that toney set by rolling his shoulder to partially veil his punches.
As for ruiz, watch the first round again. Theres about with about 30 seconds left where Ruiz start brawling and buzzes roy momentarily. You cant see the feet becausei t was partially obscured on the hbo telecast but you'll still be able to tell with roys posture thats that his feet were looking for solid ground. At that point roy just starts swinging with ruiz to show him its not going to be easy... Late on roy would go on to stumble ruiz and return the favor. I think it might have been round 6.
Roy wasn't chinny in my opinion. He took a decent left hook from Toney in their fight n wasn't even buzzed. Tarver laded the perfect shot, at the perfect time n was a big puncher. I admire Roy for getting up from that one. He took a pounding from Johnson prior to being stopped. It's not like Glenn turned his lights out with his first solid shot...
I do think that Tarvers style would have always given aroy problems. Liles n Nunn were avoided for this reason, and Harding gave him fits because of his long build n southpaw jab. Griffins defense gave aroy fits in the first fight also. That being said, Roy wouldn't have been stopped by them for being chinny, he could take a decent shot until he list it mentally...
I don't think he was chinny at all. He was hit clean many times at the same time he was exploding and blinding everyone ring side in a sea of camera flashes. It was a matter of time catching up and the holes growing wider. Harding was touching him years before he put on weight and beat up Ruiz. Tarver for all his bravado and cartoonish disposition was a helluva thinking boxer.
@J_Undisputed.
You're right. I forgot that first round, end as you said was the best part of the fight. Ruiz caught Roy & Roy ate it like candy.