Does anyone here actually think Pacquaio would beat Mayweather Jr. p4p?

Since people are talking about Pacquaio being better than Mayweather do you guys actually think if they were the same size that Pacquaio would stand a chance? Despite weighing more Mayweather is still much faster, is able to keep a guy naturally 190 pounds off of him, and he has the best technique in over a decade if not ever. I am confused how a guy as open as open defensively as Pacquaio would present any sort of trouble for PBF. Do you incorporate excitement, and enjoyment factors into the equation? Because I don't see what all the hype is about... Pacquaio is good, but he has far too many holes to be number 1 or 2 p4p.

No. And for what its worth, Pac weighed in at 144 on fight night against Morales. That's probably only a few pounds lighter than Floyd on fight night.

I agree Mayweather would probably beat Pacman p4p.

this goes both ways on both pac and pbf hasn't face anyone one like eachother, pac hasn't face anyone like pbf and pbf hasn't face anyone like pac...

pac has never been against some one quick and slick like pbf, and pbf hasn't been in with a punching machine like pac. pbf whoop chico who had power but chico just stood there and got punish, for sure pac isn't gonna stand around his gonna pressure pbf. and pbf's chin hasn't been tested. its clear pac has been in with better oppenents and he has manage to reach top p4p, while pbf has had fights against slow stand still fighters.

we can talk about how superior pbf is but he hasn't been in with a great fighter. so how great is he really is, REMEMBER YOUR REALLY ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENT.

people can say how easily pac can get hit, but does pbf hit as hard as mab jmm or em? how people can talk about how easy pac gets hit then why hasn't he been stop in his prime or coming to prime pacman. PRIME PACMAN HAS A IRON CHIN.

pbf can win by staying away and jabbing but i think eventually he'll be force to war. which pac does best.

we won't know the actual winner until they actually really fight. which is likely never to happen.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

this goes both ways on both pac and pbf hasn't face anyone one like eachother, pac hasn't face anyone like pbf and pbf hasn't face anyone like pac...

pac has never been against some one quick and slick like pbf, and pbf hasn't been in with a punching machine like pac. pbf whoop chico who had power but chico just stood there and got punish, for sure pac isn't gonna stand around his gonna pressure pbf. and pbf's chin hasn't been tested. its clear pac has been in with better oppenents and he has manage to reach top p4p, while pbf has had fights against slow stand still fighters.

we can talk about how superior pbf is but he hasn't been in with a great fighter. so how great is he really is, REMEMBER YOUR REALLY ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENT.

people can say how easily pac can get hit, but does pbf hit as hard as mab jmm or em? how people can talk about how easy pac gets hit then why hasn't he been stop in his prime or coming to prime pacman. PRIME PACMAN HAS A IRON CHIN.

pbf can win by staying away and jabbing but i think eventually he'll be force to war. which pac does best.

we won't know the actual winner until they actually really fight. which is likely never to happen.

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No offense but if Floyd had stayed at 130 lb he would be a monster puncher now. We think of him as not having power only because he fights 3 divisions above his natural weight.

Pacquaio has moved up several divisions too but at the low weights he didn't have the power or durability he has now.

I'd say if Mayweather had stayed as a super featherweight he would have cleaned up beating Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao and Marquez if he moved up

If they fought at 130, I think Floyd would win rather easily. Way, way too much speed. And much better technically as well.

Mayweather may give a neat boxing lesson and really, that is the only way he can beat Manny P. However, if he goes toe to toe with Pacman, he may be in for a rude awakening.

Therefore, it will be a chess match. Who can dictate the fight to his liking will win. If Floyd can stay away from Manny's power by jabbing and doing combinations and then slickly moving away, he will probably get a decision. If he stays and fights like a prime Morales or pre-baldomir Barrera, there could be a slight chance that Floyd will still win but my bet will be on Pacman.

The fight between ODLH and Mayweather will be the closest to the possible outcome of this dream match. Not so much that the fighting style of OLDH is similar to Manny's. Far from it. BUT it has been said by Freddie Roach that OLDH strategy will be to cut the ring and force Mayweather to fight. We will then see the mettle and the chin of Mayweather if he can dictate the fight in his terms or be forced to fight it out with OLDH.

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Originally Posted by halo

Mayweather may give a neat boxing lesson and really, that is the only way he can beat Manny P. However, if he goes toe to toe with Pacman, he may be in for a rude awakening.

Therefore, it will be a chess match. Who can dictate the fight to his liking will win. If Floyd can stay away from Manny's power by jabbing and doing combinations and then slickly moving away, he will probably get a decision. If he stays and fights like a prime Morales or pre-baldomir Barrera, there could be a slight chance that Floyd will still win but my bet will be on Pacman.

The fight between ODLH and Mayweather will be the closest to the possible outcome of this dream match. Not so much that the fighting style of OLDH is similar to Manny's. Far from it. BUT it has been said by Freddie Roach that OLDH strategy will be to cut the ring and force Mayweather to fight. We will then see the mettle and the chin of Mayweather if he can dictate the fight in his terms or be forced to fight it out with OLDH.

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Yes, if Floyd can't beat Oscar there's no way he could beat Pac. Great comparison, it will really tell us so much how Floyd would do against Pac when he fights a jr.middleweight with KO power... ::**

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Originally Posted by halo

BUT it has been said by Freddie Roach that OLDH strategy will be to cut the ring and force Mayweather to fight.

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This will be Floyd's 38th fight, and I'm guessing that this is the 38th time that his opponent's trainer has said they're going to cut off the ring, wear him down to body and make him fight.

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

a close one i reckon. i think pac man is aweome and think he might be a bit much for anyone if he's on top form. pac man has got so many angles and such an awesome workrate and i think if he is on his A game he could be anyones worse nightmare.

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

PBF would destroy PAC at 135 or 130

PBF was very strong at those weights, combine that with his defensive skill, 5" reach advantage and speed advantage, PAC wouldn't be able to get anything off at all.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

PBF would destroy PAC at 135 or 130

PBF was very strong at those weights, combine that with his defensive skill, 5" reach advantage and speed advantage, PAC wouldn't be able to get anything off at all.

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CC. PBF would embarrass Pac at any weight, but at 135, it would have been brutal.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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spanning weight classes doesn't mean shit. Look at mayweather, even at 154 hes pretty much the same size in terms of hight and reach as oscar, as big as if not bigger than most at WW - just coz he decided to sto start off at a very low weight where he had almost always the bigger reach ::** and then move up weights don't mean more than pac starting off around a weight that he would finish off in.

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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For me the #1 criteria to determine the greatness of a fighter is the level of his opposition. Floyd can jump ten weight classes as far as i'm concerned...but if he doesn't fight any great fighters along the way...it's a mute point. Oscar is his first true test...and you can even argue that Oscar is past his prime. I don't question Floyd's skills, i question the level of oppostion he faces.

Pac might make it interesting but Mayweather is just too good. Not to mention the fact that Pacman does not have one fourth of Mayweathers skill and talent. PacMan might land some good shots but I see this one for Floyd in a unanimus descision, and a rather easy one at that.

i would like to say pac would win but mayweather just looked real good at the lower weights not saying that pac don't look good or anything but i think mayweather would win

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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For me the #1 criteria to determine the greatness of a fighter is the level of his opposition. Floyd can jump ten weight classes as far as i'm concerned...but if he doesn't fight any great fighters along the way...it's a mute point. Oscar is his first true test...and you can even argue that Oscar is past his prime. I don't question Floyd's skills, i question the level of oppostion he faces.

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You can argue that Barrera and Morrales were way past their primes when they fought Pacquaio especially the last two fights against Morrales, and Larios isn't on the same level as Judah, Baldomir, Gatti, Corley... he wasn't even proven fighter yet. Mayweather has foughten very good opposition in the last while its just people expect him to always fight everyone, but that isn't realistic if he trying to reach a fight with Oscar Dela Hoya.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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spanning weight classes doesn't mean S***. Look at mayweather, even at 154 hes pretty much the same size in terms of hight and reach as oscar, as big as if not bigger than most at WW - just coz he decided to sto start off at a very low weight where he had almost always the bigger reach ::** and then move up weights don't mean more than pac starting off around a weight that he would finish off in.

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What does reach have to do with size? Mayweather has the same arm length as Valuev that doesn't mean he is anywhere near as big as Valuev. Oscar Dela Hoya is 2 and a half inches taller than Mayweather, and alot bigger. Everyone has always said Oscar Dela Hoya has the shoulders of light heavyweights. Mayweather's biggest weight was comming in against Baldomir at 149... that's his walking around weight... Guys like ODLH walk around at 175ish so he is way smaller. He could fight at lightweight right now.

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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Good point. But I have a question for you. How will you rate Mayweather if he loses to OLDH? Who will then be your P4P candidate?

its ridiculous how some posters here can easily conclude floyd would just beat pacman.

here's the difference between the two speedsters.

floyd reach his prime very early, at 130 floyd was already primed.

pac is just coming into prime or just reach his prime now?

but raw pac was good enough to embarrASS a legend (mab)( a great fighter an elite level pbf has never face)

prime floyd made a fool of chico,

signs of prime pacman k.oed em in rematch.

prime floyd questionable win over castillo

pacman prime?? k.oed em with a fever in just 3 rounds.

prime vs. prime

you can watch prime floyd since his days at 130 and base your thoughts on him.

but prime pacman is unknown, we can't actually say pac is in his prime now, this is what really makes pac the most exciting fighter today,love him or hate him you sure damn don't know if this is the best he can be. because remember how most of you use to say pac is just one deminsional and that's all he`ll ever be...but then pac shows off right hook counters and better hit resistance. PRIME PACMAN HAS AN IRON CHIN. and how easy can he be hit really? if he was so easy to hit then how come its pacs oppenents that are the ones always needing to get up off the canvas.


I don't get how people can just lable pbf superior to a warrior like pac.

how can people just ignore pacs power and speed.

pbf is a master defensive fighter but he struggle early rounds with a fast southpaw(zab) like pac.

at 130 pacman has more then enough to make pbf sleep and pac is fast and relentless enough to throw off pbf. a pbf that is use to fighting stand still target such as chico who threw 2 punches a round.

I always thought the way to beat pac or beat floyd.

is a dirty rough fighter for pac

a relentless fast powerfull puncher for floyd.

but again can't even really be sure because for all we know we have only seen one fight of prime pacman. in their prime it could be pac that is truelly deserving the title undefeated.

A lot of people underestimate Floyd's power.
Even though he doesn't knock you out with one punch he throws quick accurate punches.
And those quick surprising shots that you don't see affect you mentally more than big looping bombs.
They affect you in the sense that you become a lot more hesitant to let go of your own punches fearing what's coming back in return and ruins your whole gameplan.
Almost every Mayweather opponent says he's gonna cut off the ring with Mayweather and constantly press him until they wear him down. But very opponent soon realizes that every time they throw and miss, they're getting hit back.
And with Floyd's accuracy and Pac's defense, I have a feeling Floyd would wear Pac down with a tattooing sooner than Pac would wear Floyd down whenever he can land.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

this goes both ways on both pac and pbf hasn't face anyone one like eachother, pac hasn't face anyone like pbf and pbf hasn't face anyone like pac...

pac has never been against some one quick and slick like pbf, and pbf hasn't been in with a punching machine like pac. pbf whoop chico who had power but chico just stood there and got punish, for sure pac isn't gonna stand around his gonna pressure pbf. and pbf's chin hasn't been tested. its clear pac has been in with better oppenents and he has manage to reach top p4p, while pbf has had fights against slow stand still fighters.

we can talk about how superior pbf is but he hasn't been in with a great fighter. so how great is he really is, REMEMBER YOUR REALLY ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENT.

people can say how easily pac can get hit, but does pbf hit as hard as mab jmm or em? how people can talk about how easy pac gets hit then why hasn't he been stop in his prime or coming to prime pacman. PRIME PACMAN HAS A IRON CHIN.

pbf can win by staying away and jabbing but i think eventually he'll be force to war. which pac does best.

we won't know the actual winner until they actually really fight. which is likely never to happen.

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No offense but if Floyd had stayed at 130 lb he would be a monster puncher now. We think of him as not having power only because he fights 3 divisions above his natural weight.

Pacquaio has moved up several divisions too but at the low weights he didn't have the power or durability he has now.

I'd say if Mayweather had stayed as a super featherweight he would have cleaned up beating Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao and Marquez if he moved up

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Those glowing words are all hypothetical while Pac has actually done those things. That's the difference.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete.

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:lol: you got to be kidding me right??? Floyd Mayweather jr is probably one of the most athletically gifted athletes we have seen in the past 25 years shades of Roy Jones.. Floyds Reflexes, speed, power, anticipation, accuracey and stamina are just scratching the surface of Floyds athleticism.... Floyd dominates Pac in everyone of those Categories, so curious to see how your basing your argument ;)

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

this goes both ways on both pac and pbf hasn't face anyone one like eachother, pac hasn't face anyone like pbf and pbf hasn't face anyone like pac...

pac has never been against some one quick and slick like pbf, and pbf hasn't been in with a punching machine like pac. pbf whoop chico who had power but chico just stood there and got punish, for sure pac isn't gonna stand around his gonna pressure pbf. and pbf's chin hasn't been tested. its clear pac has been in with better oppenents and he has manage to reach top p4p, while pbf has had fights against slow stand still fighters.

we can talk about how superior pbf is but he hasn't been in with a great fighter. so how great is he really is, REMEMBER YOUR REALLY ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENT.

people can say how easily pac can get hit, but does pbf hit as hard as mab jmm or em? how people can talk about how easy pac gets hit then why hasn't he been stop in his prime or coming to prime pacman. PRIME PACMAN HAS A IRON CHIN.

pbf can win by staying away and jabbing but i think eventually he'll be force to war. which pac does best.

we won't know the actual winner until they actually really fight. which is likely never to happen.

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No offense but if Floyd had stayed at 130 lb he would be a monster puncher now. We think of him as not having power only because he fights 3 divisions above his natural weight.

Pacquaio has moved up several divisions too but at the low weights he didn't have the power or durability he has now.

I'd say if Mayweather had stayed as a super featherweight he would have cleaned up beating Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao and Marquez if he moved up

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yes pac has started from 106 up to now at 130, you say at the lower weight he didn't have the power or durability he has now. well thats because pacman is just coming onto prime now, and he has already defeated mab by tko, jmm by split decision if not for the judge making an scoring error, and k.o morales twice.

also you say pbf if he would of stayed at super featherweight he would of cleaned up beating mab em pac and jmm, pbf doesn't have the balls to fight all of them, pac does, and pac has proved that. pbf would never stay at one division, he only jumps weights to beat chumps and collect a....b....c titles. thats how you stay undefeated........handpicking. and thats how you fool foolish fans thinking your so good when fact is YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENTS.

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Originally Posted by meowza

A lot of people underestimate Floyd's power.
Even though he doesn't knock you out with one punch he throws quick accurate punches.
And those quick surprising shots that you don't see affect you mentally more than big looping bombs.
They affect you in the sense that you become a lot more hesitant to let go of your own punches fearing what's coming back in return and ruins your whole gameplan.
Almost every Mayweather opponent says he's gonna cut off the ring with Mayweather and constantly press him until they wear him down. But very opponent soon realizes that every time they throw and miss, they're getting hit back.
And with Floyd's accuracy and Pac's defense, I have a feeling Floyd would wear Pac down with a tattooing sooner than Pac would wear Floyd down whenever he can land.

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:coolclick: #91 10000000000% agreed and have made this arguement many of times with Floyds accumalative punching power, like you stated his stinging pinpoint accuracey makes you think twice about throwing cause the fear of whats coming back ... Prime example: why do you think Zab wasnt as aggressive or active as the fight wore on, cause he was getting punished by Floyd

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

also you say pbf if he would of stayed at super featherweight he would of cleaned up beating mab em pac and jmm, pbf doesn't have the balls to fight all of them, pac does, and pac has proved that. pbf would never stay at one division, he only jumps weights to beat chumps and collect a....b....c titles. thats how you stay undefeated........handpicking. and thats how you fool foolish fans thinking your so good when fact is YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENTS.

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Yea you got Floyd pegged on this one ::** yep no ballz at all... I guess the fact that he will have made 18 million dollars within this 6 month period Nov06-May07 and is the linear undefeated undisputed Welterweight Champion of the world and is fighting Oscar Delahoya for his Junior Middleweight title is not a reason to climb towards bigger and better things.. Not to mention Floyd is just entering the prime of his career.

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Originally Posted by albsur2006

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by halo

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Originally Posted by Taeth

The thing people forget is that Mayweather can stand toe to toe... If you want a relentless puncher look at Philip Ndou, of course he doesn't have the skill of Pacquaio, but he hit harder(not p4p), and he had just as high or higher a work rate. Mayweather destroyed him in the pocket. Pacquaio isn't a relentless fighter anymore... He does come forward all alot, but not always throw punches, and that makes openings for the fastest fighter on the planet. Mayweather can fight on the inside, or on the outside, he can take a punch, he has a terific jab, hook, cross, uppercut, and the best stamina in the business. Some might say that he doesn't have the power, but he kept Baldomir far more honest than any of us expected with his power, and he kept Gatti honest, and even Castillo in their second fight. Castillo is another relentless guy who comes forward, and he has a better chin than Pacquaio by far along with good head movement, and the first fight Mayweather had broken ribs and a torn rotator cuff and he still won the fight. I am not saying Pacquaio is good, but I see him getting a complete beat down by Mayweather, Whitaker, Judah, super featherweight ODLH, Mosley, Duran, maybe even Corrales, and definitely Casamayor. So to compare him to Mayweather p4p is absurd to me.

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Good analysis. Still I reserve my judgement after the ODLH fight. By the way, I think he lost the first fight with Castillo IMO. Did you mean the second which in my opinion he convincingly won?

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Yeah I believe he won the second won convincingly, and I thought he won the first one simply because he was landing way harder, and cleaner shots... Castillo landed more shots but most of them were while the two were tied up or the occasional right hand getting through. Two other fighters I didn't mention that Mayweather fought are Jesus Chavez, and Emanuel Burton. He also fought Henry Bruseles(yawn), and more impressively Demarcus Corley in close. My point is that Mayweather is a far more rounded fighter than Pacquaio, and a better athlete with a better chin.

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One thing Floyd is not over Pac is a better athlete. Floyd is obviously the much sounder technical fighter. As it stands right now...Pac must be ranked higher than Floyd simply because his resume is much more impressive. He has fought 3 GREAT fighters in Morales, Barrera, and Marquez. As far as i'm concerned, Floyd has not fought one great fighter (and that includes Castillo). Does any of this mean that if Floyd and Pac fought...Floyd wouldn't win? No. But at least Pac can back up his pound for pound status with fights against great opposition.

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Sure. Pac deserves to be top 3 P4P, but not number #1. Pac simply hasn't done enough yet. Pac hasn't proved that he can span weight classes and still be effective against championship level competition. Floyd is attempting his fifth weight class in May and he has fought championship level competiton in each weight class. As a boxer, he is miles ahead of Pac. People forget that actually boxing skills matter in determining P4P and no one can say that Floyd isn't the best boxer in the world. No one has his skills, but if Pac can move up to 135 and clean out that division, then "Who's #1 P4P?" becomes a valid conversation.

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pac started out as a flyweight and is now a superfeather, while moving on these weight classes, he won a couple of world titles and demolishes all the great and future hall of famers in the featherweight division. imo, pac deserves #1 p4p consideration.

Yo JTRock, if Floyd is just entering his prime now, then why is he retiring now. I'm a huge fan of Floyd's but him retiring pisses me off. I've supported him so much and he cheats me by pulling a Barry Sanders. I want to see Floyd vs Cotto, Margarito, Judah 2, Williams, etc. Definitely interesting to imagine a fight between those two, but the question is who beats who on the P4P rankings...right? or was the question worded incorrectly.

As much as I don't like Floyd for his sissy career management and as much as I like Pacman for his style and resume, I can't see Pac getting to Floyd at all. Pac is a huge puncher at 130, but I think that at that higher weights, Floyd has survived harder hitters than Pac. I give Pac an edge in heart, but that's about it.

Haha!!! well if it isn't my anonymous sad clicker who has 0 ballz and thinks I don't know who he is :pis2: :plzdie: :plthumbsdown:

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Originally Posted by AirJordanIV

Yo JTRock, if Floyd is just entering his prime now, then why is he retiring now.

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Well your prime is your prime regardless if you continue your career or not... I doubt Floyd is retireing though, this is just to generate more interest and appeal to his showdown with Delahoya as it being his self-proclaimed last fight

Oscar is just a colossal pay day and both him and Floyd will work every last angle and squeeze every last dime out of this fight from a marketing standpoint...

Floyd will be around for quite a few more years after Delahoya ;)

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

also you say pbf if he would of stayed at super featherweight he would of cleaned up beating mab em pac and jmm, pbf doesn't have the balls to fight all of them, pac does, and pac has proved that. pbf would never stay at one division, he only jumps weights to beat chumps and collect a....b....c titles. thats how you stay undefeated........handpicking. and thats how you fool foolish fans thinking your so good when fact is YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR OPPENENTS.

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Yea you got Floyd pegged on this one ::** yep no ballz at all... I guess the fact that he will have made 18 million dollars within this 6 month period Nov06-May07 and is the linear undefeated undisputed Welterweight Champion of the world and is fighting Oscar Delahoya for his Junior Middleweight title is not a reason to climb towards bigger and better things.. Not to mention Floyd is just entering the prime of his career.

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first of i said he doens't have the balls to fight them all, just like he didn't have to balls to shut his mouth and just fight a interesting challenge from a champion margarito. or how he kept jumping division to fight chumps and collect abc titles, pbf has never clean out a division unlike pac, pac took on the best asap at featherweights. pbf has always left out atleast very interesting fights in division to move up and just fight another chump. pbf has wasted many oppurtunity to be fighting someone hype instead he waste his times to fight another tune up to secure his undefeated record. pbf is a very low risk fighter. as a fighter low risk means less balls or noun at all. unlike a warrior.

no you say pbf is actually just entering his prime, pbf look way better in the lower weight class, pbf has slowed down actually. watch the baldomir fight he wasn't as fast and as defensive as he use to be.

bigger better things??? you mean bigger pay lower risk right? pbf is all about money not beating the best challenge possible.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Hahah!!! well if it isint my anonmoyus sad clicker who has 0 ballz and thinks I dont know who he is :pis2: :plzdie: :plthumbsdown:

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+428 :coolclick: is on me, so don't you go thinking i'm like that. because i hate them no balls bastards too, my sad clicks always goes up without me knowing who because yea they are punks don't say a thing and just sad click you. i hate that.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Hahah!!! well if it isint my anonmoyus sad clicker who has 0 ballz and thinks I dont know who he is :pis2: :plzdie: :plthumbsdown:

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+428 :coolclick: is on me, so don't you go thinking i'm like that. because i hate them no balls bastards too, my sad clicks always goes up without me knowing who because yea they are punks don't say a thing and just sad click you. i hate that.

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:coolclick: #134 in return ;)

As much as I would like to say Manny cleans Floyd's clock fact of the matter is Floyd punishes him with speed,,combos and his footwork never gives Manny a chance to corner him