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I hear a lot of people saying that his record is weak and that he hasnt fought nothing but bums and washed up fighters.I would like for someone to break it down for me while being unbiased and sticking to facts...then let me know what other welter has a better resume than him.
it consist of stand still fighters who he easily outbox due to them being so much slower.
honestly any record can get bash but since pbf has the top p4p ranking, he deserves the bashing. specially when he makes a fool of himself as our top p4p king, it was embarassing for him to stutter and say margarito doesn't deserve to fight him or someshyt like that, but then fights mitchell.
theres only two names in his record that i think are good, chico and castillo. and in the three fight pbf had with those two he went 2-1 because i believe he lost the first with castillo.
the chico fight pbf totally dominated, but chico through about 2 punches a round and was totally lost. chicos weak chin got whoop bad by pbf. that was a great fight for pbf.
after chico and castillo, pretty boy pretty much just kept moving up in weight picking weak champs to beat.
keep in mind he has reach the top p4p not due to him beating a great fighter that was in the top 20 p4p list he got to the top because roy and bhop lost, and by pbf having easy wins against b....u....m
i think Floyd has a pretty good record! There are a lot of Floyd haters out there.
I'm not a Floyd fan and i don't like what he stands for and what he brings to Boxing but i will give him respect where respect is due and he has fought some good fighters and managed to beat them all!!
he has names such as Baldomir, Gatti, Judah, Mitchell, Bruseles, Corley, N'dou, Castillo 2x, Chavez, Corrales, Hernandez, and Manfredy just to name a few notable names in the sport. Not all are great fighters but are pretty good fighters
and just for fun facts his opponent's combined records are as follow:
929W 176L 35D
not bad
nice and unbiased reply 8) see.. thats how i like it man... no matter how much you root for a fighter... give the credit that a fighter deserves... we all know that except for castillo,corales and gatti, everybody he fought were bums.... and dont even include baldomir coz he never stood and fought baldo.. he ran and scratched like a little girl....Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Paging Danny G...... report to this thread!!!!
his record is as good if not better than any other top fighter in the game right now. no fighter fights a top name fighter every fight.
accecpt barrera morales and pac and that because they fight each other every fight.
Here's an unbiased view .
Pick one HOT FIGHTER from this lot .
Carlos Baldomir . Decent fighter but a beltholder not a champion exposed at the top level . 12 Losses
Zab Judah , well and truly exposed at the top level . Another fight in which the supposed best fighter in the world SHOWED OUT . coming off a loss .
Sharmba Mittchell , simply washed up destroyed in 3 rounds by Kostya Tszyu and had 1 fight at Welterweight. Knocked out before and after the Floyd fight .
Arturo Gatti , good fighter but completely exposed at the top level a fighter described by Mayweather himself as a C CLASS FIGHTER .
Henry Bruseles, a fighter who in his previous fight had drawn with Ener Julio the same Ener Julio who lost to Jawiad Khaliq
DeMarcus Corley , typical Mayweather fighting another fighter coming off a loss, Corley rocks Mayweather badly against the ropes . Corley since destroyed by Cotto and outbored by Junior Witter
Philip N'dou, a fighter knocked out by Anthony Cambell in 3 rounds and who had prepared for Mayweather by fighting Alex Moon.
Victoriano Sosa , a fight in which Mayweather avoided punches by getting on his bike and almost legging it out the ring . Sosa was then destroyed by Cotto in 4 . A fighter who had lost to Paul Spadofora and prepared for Mayweather with a fight against somebody with an 19-19 record managed a draw against an ancient Lamar Murphy
Jose Luis Castillio 1and2 , these 2 fights exposed Mayweather for what he is a fighter who shows out complains alot when things dont go his own way !! Mayweather won the fight by skating round the ring whilst JCC pursed . Unfortunately JCC didnt have the speed of foot to keep up .
Jesus Chavez , good fighter but slow taylor made for him no real power slow feet and easy to hit .
Carlos Hernandez , busy tough and strong but not world class . Slow easy to hit
It's not fair to claim that Mayweather was "rocked badly" by Corley, and then say that Corley "was destroyed by Cotto" without even mentioning that Cotto was badly hurt by Corley and was almost out on his feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy
As for the claims that Mayweather won by "getting on his bike" or "skating around the ring", that's not why he won, he won because he outboxed them. There's nothing in the rule book as far as I know that says that a fighter needs to stand flatfooted in front of his opponent and trade bombs. Fighters with handspeed and footspeed have been winning fights with their movement for decades. Do you think Willie Pep stood in front of his opponents, or do you think he was constantly on the move and getting out of harm's way?
Mayweather clearly beat Castillo in the second fight, he outboxed him and outworked him. Plain and simple.
Also, the point of your post seems to be that Floyd always fights guys who are on a losing streak or who aren't "hot." Yet by coincidence (or not), you stop your list without mentioning the Corrales fight. Corrales was 33-0, was one of the hottest fighters in the sport, was viewed by many experts as Top 10 PFP at the time, and was picked by many experts to KO Floyd.
This doesn't seem like a very unbiased post to me.
Look i dont like pbf at all. His antics and comments oout of the ring really piss me off. But to say his record is any weaker than some of the other p4p fighters is horse shat. In fact only the top fighters at 130 have really fought tougher opposition.
Lets look at his other main competitors for p4p number1 and compare.
Winky wright is widely regarded as a top 2 p4p yet his record has weaknesses.
His greatest wins are against fighters who are blown up welters such as mosley and trinidad, he drew with Jermaine Taylor who is not rated at all on this site and has lost to vargas(altho controversial). He also had a relatively close fight against sam soliman who got destroyed by anthony mundine.
I say this record is no greater than pbf's.
Jermaine Taylor: Two controersial wins against 40+ bernard hopkins, and a draw against smaller winky wright are his only bouts of real note.
Ricky Hatton: GGood win over Kostya, but then backs it up with Maussa? Collazo? Urango?
My point is unless its 130 aand fighters like pac mab jmm or morales no top guys fight each other consistently. No more than pbf anyway.
Why am I being paged? We have gone over this with a fine tooth comb.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
From what I reading, it looks like Diego Corrales is his biggest claim to fame. (not true) But if this is the case then so be it. I mean Floyd made Corrales look completely retarded in that fight. Was/is Floyd that damn good? I don't see why not, there was no one fighting for Floyd but Floyd. Or did Chico have a bad night due to all the distractions. It depends on who you ask and you will get a different answer for sure. There was never a rematch so I guess we have to leave it at Floyd is just that damn good. Forget the excuses. It has been written, this one is done and over with.
In Floyd's favor he has moved up and keeps winning. Where is he at now? 4/5 divisions from his natural weight? I am lucky if I can count the number of fighter's in one hand who can even move up 1 or 2 division and be succesfull let alone 4 or 5. He makes it look easy. On the other hand, the opposition has not been that great and I guess you just take what you can get. (It looks like calculating hand picking) No? Yes? Maybe?
If these old men (Gatti/Baldo) were holding belts at the time that Floyd came thru, then so be it. Luck of the fighter. But there is no doubt that the old lions are fading and the young lions are gonna be running the Welter Weight Division. This is where Floyd should test himself but rumors of retirement linger and I guess we shall never really know. I think Floyd's biggest problem is that he toots his own horn and that is what turns people off and that is where the hate comes from.
No doubt the kid is a HOFFER and something tells me he is not retiring. His legacy is not complete and he knows it. The kid is not a fool. He might be fooling some of you but he can not fool himself because to do so would mean that he is really a fool and he is no fool when it comes to boxing.
Another thing that turns people off is that he does not engage when he should and could and knock these bums out. That is my beef. Is he being smart by not listening to the public? I guess so. I can't blame anyone for trying to keep their record with out blemish. He does what he does his way and it has worked perfectly. Being wreckless and risky can cost you in this sport. No need trying to fix something that is not broke this late in his career.
He should stick around at least another year or two before retiring. 33 is a good time to hang them up for almost anyone in their right mind. If he does retire, he will be back for the big money fights like Oscar has. Trust me. The weasle knows what he is doing. Me thinks ;D
Cotto will be waiting for you weasel. He will stay busy and continue to win until you come back ;D Hurry home, you heard!
Floyd did what many would kill to do today and that is fight De La Hoya.
Smart little weasel played a great game of chess. Brilliant, Masterful, Bravo.
CaChing$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I could be here all night but I hate writing so this is my condensed version of my little thoughts.
Nite nite ;)
Thank you sweet Pea well put .Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
But the thread was about Mayweather .
I was going to mention Corrales but i limited it to the last 12 fights and besides the Corrales fight was what 7 years ago and Corrales has been stopped twice since then .
All im asking is for my fellow Posters to pick one decent fighter whom Floyd has fought from that list !!
I dont want my post to be nickpicked i just want a simple answer .
Lets face it Mayweather has ALWAYS TAKEN THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE .
Corrales was a spent force completely fucked at the weight and had genuine out the ring problems .
People criticise Hatton but Hatton has fought fighters coming of wins and on a roll .
Maussa had just knocked out WBA champ Vivian Harris .
Collazo was WBA Welter champ
Urango was a world champion and unbeaten .
Id rank all the above at the level of Baldomir difference is Ricky Hatton doesnt call himself Pound for Pound number 1 and he doesnt show out and complain about his hands .
Sweet Pea , how many times did Mayweather turn his head and complain to the ref in the JCC fight ?
Also if you want to go back even further against Carlos Grenea Mayweather took illiegal painkillers for his damaged hands.
I dont see how its still a debate...look at all of the names mentioned above!You can say they were washed up...but thats just an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy
FYI-Hatton doesnt call himself p4p #1 because he CANT.I dont even think that he is top 10.
Name another fighter who has a better resume than Floyd??
Hattons resume is not even close to Floyds...90% of the names under his belt are unknowns.
I dont see how JCC,Gatti,Zab,Corley,Baldo,Corralles,Hernandez are considered just decent fighters...
You mention Collazo...who has he beat??
You mention Urango...who has he beat??
You're un fucking believable .
Who's resume is better than Floyds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy
Dont even mention Urango...and Collazo...unless you tell me who they beat.
Olympian ive said all im gonna say in my previous post .
If i wanted to talk with a vegetable id go to ASDA or Sainsburys .
Its funny how people tend to go into a shell....when they dont have any answers.
Olympian, you obviously are a fan of Floyd's. And I can respect the fact that you are trying to stand up for him. No one can question Floyd's talent...but for whatever reason...his resume is underwhelming for someone who claims to be #1 p4p king. You ask who has a better resume? The man he is fighting next most definitely does. Floyd still has years left to fight better competition and back up his lofty claims. But until he does...he is simply just a very talented fighter...nothing more.
I am a fan of boxing in general...but it gets annoying seeing post after post criticising him...True Oscar does have a better resume but other than Oscar who else is there?
I just want to know what competition out there is better than Oscar?Mosley?
It seems that after Floyd beats someone they become a bum.
Oscar had the chance of fighting GREATS...what GREAT welters are there to fight?
Hatton and Cotto for starters. They aren't percieved as great yet but they are both multi division undefeated champions and therefore a threat. That is the sort of opposition Floyd should be seaking.. not the hasbeens...Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
I'd like to get into this at this point...as a boxing fan & a Floyd fan...here's the thing about past records...once a man is beaten...he's written off. I don't give two shits about what anyone says...that's a fact. Those people that Floyd beat were all good fighters & a lot of them to this day still are...but after Floyd hammered them...they & their accomplishments meant shit to all of the critics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo
Also...as far as Floyd & those other "great welters" that you mentioned...they backed out of fights with Floyd. Cotto wanted nothing of him & hardly mentions him after sitting there ringside watching his sparring partner get his ass kicked over 8 or 9 rounds...& Hatton? Please. Hatton has bailed twice saying he needed another year.
**Cotto has yet to reach greatness...& Hatton...well...talk about fighting has beens...my oh my...someone stated that Hatton's record was better or as good as Floyd's...whoever that was...please...modify your post with facts & not fiction.
Floyd's record is hella fine. Back track & look at the opp you try to tear apart & where they were when Floyd handled them.
**Hairdoo...this post was not directed entirely at you, just the Cotto Hatton statement...the rest of it...well...it's just a broad generalization of the whole sha-bang.
Floyd's record is fine at 135, he fought the best and won in that division. My beef is Tszyu was around in 02 and 03 and surely a match up could have been made. Tszyu dominated the 140lb division for nearly ten years and Mayweather didn't take up the challenge. Hatton beats Tszyu in 05 and again where is Mayweather? He fights Gatti and Mitchell who in their day were very good but by the time he gets to them they are finished! It's a good resume but not a great one yet! He still has some work to do before his legacy is set in stone. Cotto, Hatton, Mosley, Margarito, Williams the list is strong.
I see it like this...Hatton has looked extra sloppy in his last 2 fights(which he has publicly admitted).So he has definitely lost some steam.Quote:
Originally Posted by glennf
Mosley had one good fight...and now everyone is ready to throw his name in there after just one fight?
Margo is fighting Williams so one will lose a top ranking and a chance at the top level(Floyd).
So what you are saying is that a fight with Cotto and Hatton will cement Floyds legacy??????????????????I didnt think a 28year old and an out of shape slugger had that much affect on Floyds legacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy
alright but who could he have fought that wasnt dukn him
There will always be the politics why this guy didn't fight that guy ect.. ect.. but at the end of the day its what names end up on your resume. I don't see any p4p names or even any hungry young champions on Floyd's since Corrales.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
He very well could be the best ever but up to date I don't think he has proven it.
Admittedly my dislike of his personality probably clouds my opinion a little. ;D
This always comes up, and I've stated this a bunch of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by glennf
While a Floyd-Tszyu fight would have been great, there was always very little chance of that happening.
Floyd had a long-term deal with HBO, and Tszyu was signed to Showtime. And because of that, the chances of them fighting were slim to none.
Hatton and Cotto are far from great...they are undefeated...but I can name dozens of undefeated fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo
Hatton and Cotto have no names on their resumes...Clottey,Collazo,??If Floyd had Hattons resume...he'd be banned from the sport.
People always giving credit..
Alright, for the sake of argument, who ahs Cotto beat that Floyd hadn't beat before hand?
Also didn't Floyd fight Sosa at 135? People aren't giving Floyd credit for that but they give Cotto credit for fighting an undersized Sosa who was coming up from 135 to fight him at 140? Those same people who say Jermain Taylor aint anything for fighting 154 pounders coming up to 160 but Cotto gets super credit for beating fighters coming up from 135 to fight him ???
That was just for arguments sake. And anyway, someone name me a young fighter(who has yet to cemenet their legacy like Oscar and Shane, Barerra, Morales) around 135, 140, 147 that has a better record or legacy then Floyd ??? As in someone Floyd could fight? Give me one.
I don't see how anyone can say Floyd has a "legacy." He is not even close to having one yet. History remembers fighters that left an indelible impression...a fighter who provided moments one can remember years after their career has ended. When you bring up Ali you immediately think Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Zaire, Manila, etc., etc. When you think Leonard you immediately think of Hagler, Hearns, etc., etc. And the list goes on. LEGENDARY fighters have provided those moments that last. They are fighters that are much more than simply talented. AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...no honest person can say 10-20 years from now people will talk excitingly about Floyd's destruction of Gatti, or his dismantling of Baldomir, Mitchell, or Judah....or even his tough first fight against Castillo. It just wont happen. Is this Floyd's fault? Maybe not. Let's say he hasn't ducked anyone. Maybe he just came up in an era where there wasn't a Frazier to his Ali or a Hearns to his Leonard. But whether it's his fault or he is simply a victim of his circumstances/era....AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW...Mayweather has provided no lasting moments. Maybe that will change in the coming years. But for his fans to claim that he in fact has fought GREAT fighters and his incredible talent simply made them look bad...and that he does have a "legacy" and is an "all time great"....is simply ludicrous. I personally will wait to see how is career ends before showering him with such false praise.
Well then Winky,Hopkins,and Roy Jones wont have a legacy according to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
People remember Hagler,Hearns,Ali,Liston,etc...because they won "tough" hard fights.NO ONE has given Floyd a tough hard fight,and I dont see any of the welters doing it.I think Floyds biggest threat is Winky at 154...and after DLH,I don't think Floyd should fight that high up again.
Casamayor,Freitas,Spadafora,Hatton,Tszyu,Cotto,Mar garito,these are just some of the guys that Floyd could have fought. Granted,it's not always been his fault but to look at his resume and say the guy is a legend or an ATG,is ridiculous. And for him to mention his own name in same breath as SRR,Ali etc is embaressing.
Carlos Baldomir . Decent fighter but a beltholder not a champion exposed at the top level . 12 Losses
Zab Judah , well and truly exposed at the top level . Another fight in which the supposed best fighter in the world SHOWED OUT . coming off a loss .
Sharmba Mittchell , simply washed up destroyed in 3 rounds by Kostya Tszyu and had 1 fight at Welterweight. Knocked out before and after the Floyd fight .
Arturo Gatti , good fighter but completely exposed at the top level a fighter described by Mayweather himself as a C CLASS FIGHTER .
Henry Bruseles, a fighter who in his previous fight had drawn with Ener Julio the same Ener Julio who lost to Jawiad Khaliq
DeMarcus Corley , typical Mayweather fighting another fighter coming off a loss, Corley rocks Mayweather badly against the ropes . Corley since destroyed by Cotto and outbored by Junior Witter
Philip N'dou, a fighter knocked out by Anthony Cambell in 3 rounds and who had prepared for Mayweather by fighting Alex Moon.
Victoriano Sosa , a fight in which Mayweather avoided punches by getting on his bike and almost legging it out the ring . Sosa was then destroyed by Cotto in 4 . A fighter who had lost to Paul Spadofora and prepared for Mayweather with a fight against somebody with an 19-19 record managed a draw against an ancient Lamar Murphy
Jose Luis Castillio 1and2 , these 2 fights exposed Mayweather for what he is a fighter who shows out complains alot when things dont go his own way !! Mayweather won the fight by skating round the ring whilst JCC pursed . Unfortunately JCC didnt have the speed of foot to keep up .
Jesus Chavez , good fighter but slow taylor made for him no real power slow feet and easy to hit .
Carlos Hernandez , busy tough and strong but not world class . Slow easy to hit
Although I don't agree with some of your wording Gordy,that's a good post. You havent lied,I don't see any great names there apart from the obvious. No doubt about it,PBF is superbly talented but he has NOT fought as many great fighters as he could have and if he retires after beating Oscar,NO WAY is he an all time great.No way.
You say Sosa got beat by Spadafora like its a horrible thing, assuming thats the case, why are you saying Floyd should have fought Spadafora?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Hatton and Cotto have shown no interest in fighting Mayweather to this point. Margarito has done nothing to prove he was more worthy of an opponent than Baldomir, who was the recognized WW champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
With Tszyu, there were major contractual issues (HBO-Showtime). Casamayor and Freitas would have been interesting opponents, I'll grant that. Spadafora would've gotten his ass kicked.
But what he says, (ridiculous or not) has nothing to do with his status in the sport of boxing!!Quote:
Granted,it's not always been his fault but to look at his resume and say the guy is a legend or an ATG,is ridiculous. And for him to mention his own name in same breath as SRR,Ali etc is embaressing.
This is a big pet peeve of mine.
When people start their anti-Floyd post, they never go more than a sentence or two without complaining about what Floyd "says."
What Floyd talks about or brags about has nothing to do with what he does in the ring. Just because he's not likeable doesn't make him any more or less of a boxer. Just like the fact that Shane Mosley is a nice guy doesn't make him a better boxer.
Evaluate Floyd by what he does in the ring, because that's all that matters. And I'm not attacking you personally, because there are plenty of posters who do this as well.
I will clarify the statement, I think he missed a great opportunity to fight and beat a future hall of famer in Tszyu who was the 140lb king for a long time. Secondly he needs to unify the 147lb belt and that means beating Hatton and Cotto, they are both unbeaten currently and Mosley's overall record and recent performances entitle him to a shot at Mayweather. I think you are selling Hatton and Cotto a bit short here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
The thing I don't get, Floyd is 29. Or maybe he just turned 30, I think he did. Anyways, aside from DLH who was fighting Brehdal and Paez in his 11th and 12th fights, how many have better resumes then Floyd? I mean he absolutely wiped up 135 and aside from a few names that really had no chance of happening because of a bunch of different reasons. And the Corrales fight was huge.
And people talk about him avoiding Margarito, Cotto, Hatton and Mosley. Well all those guys with the exception of Margarito are just now calling out Mayweather. And Margarito was bipassed for Baldomir who would still the linear champ in all likelyhood if Floyd didn't pick him. The point is there is still time for all those fights and I think all have a very good chance of happening especially Mosley.
A fight with Tszyu didnt pan out so what?Everyone has a fighter that they could have fought. Unify the 147lb class for what??He beat Baldo who was the top ranked Welter.He has hinted that he will fight Hatton after Oscar...but answer this...Who has Hatton beaten????90% of the names on his resume are nobodies.He hasnt looked looked impressive in his last 2 fights....and he is out ofQuote:
Originally Posted by glennf
shape...and he deserves a shot??????
Cotto has come close to getting knocked out twice...He wasnt impressive in the Malignaggi and Urkal fights,and once again what top ranked fighter has he beaten?
Mosley had 3 seperate occasions to fight Floyd and he decided to go another route.He had one good fight back....and now he deserves a shot??????
REALISTICALLY...is Hatton,Cotto,and MArgo gonna beat Floyd....NO.
1. Shane Mosley
2. Miguel Cotto
3. Paul Williams
4. Antonio Margarito
5. Ricky Hatton
These are unequivocally the top FIVE Welterweights at the moment and yet the so called greatest welterweight of all ourtime has fought not a single one of them? ???
How could a welterweight champion leave the sport claiming to be one of the greatest if not THE greatest ever and have people believe him without even facing ONE of the current top 5 welterweights? ::**
Lightweight great maybe but Floyd Mayweather's career has unfinished business at welterweight. Oscar is a step in the right direction but with one foot out the retirement door a win over Oscar can be deflated.
I hope PBF gets sparked bigtime!! Then I can sit back and enjoy the rest of his career because getting KTFO at 154 by ODLH won't hurt his legacy at all, it may actually push him into creating one at 147. ;D
Who has Cotto,Margo,Williams,Hatton beaten that was great??Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo
Did you not see Mosley get destroyed twice by Winky?(dont blame it on the weight)He is ranked at the top of your list based on his last fight?
Baldo,Zab,Gatti,etc...were all top welters at one point in time so its not like Cotto,Margo,Hatton have been up at the top for 5 years.
He talks. But....
1. Mosley was at 154 until a couple months ago, and he himself said he wasn't ready for Floyd or Margarito yet. He actually called on Mayweather to face Margarito.
2. Again, when has he called out Floyd? He's barely moved up from 140 and the two have had conflicting schedules. He'll call out Mayweather after he sparks Judah but not right now.
3. Williams wants Margarito...he has fought absolutely nobody to this point. His biggest fight was Mitchell who Floyd used just to feel out 147. A transitional fight.
4. This is the most valid one. But he got surpassed for THE welterweight champion.
5. He's only fought once at 147 and didn't look good. Said himself he needs 3 fights before Floyd.
I think you're jumping the gun a bit to quick. Floyd isn't retiring it's all BS, money talks for Floyd and despite all the talking he does, he is a guy who is sensitive as to what his legacy will be. He has 5 more years to give and over that time I bet anything he faces off with at least 3 of these guys.
1. Shane Mosley
2. Miguel Cotto
3. Paul Williams
4. Antonio Margarito
5. Ricky Hatton
There is always the politics bla bla bla blaa.... but my point is those names are the top 5 welterweights yes?
Think outside the square... could any other champion in any other weight division be considered so great without even facing one of the top 5 at his weight?
Could Baldomir, Judah or Mitchell beat any of the guys on this list? NO.
But when he faced them, Baldomir and Judah were top 5 welterweights. The rankings changed and he's temporarily chasing the money. 5 months ago, none of these guys other then Margarito and maybe Cotto weren't on that list so what was Mayweather supposed to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo