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I'd like to know other peoples opinions on who are the best p4p fighters of all time. I have my own top ten as follows.If anyone disagrees with who I have in my top 10 Im sure you will let me know ;)
1) Sugar Ray Robinson! (It just has to be)
2) Henry Armstrong
3) Muhammad Ali
4) Willie Pep
5) Sugar Ray Leonard
6) Joe Louis
7) Roy Jones Jr
8) Marvelous Marvin Hagler
9) Archie Moore
10) Aaron Pryor
Floyd Mayweather Jr. would have to be in that list somewhere, maybe not now but at the end of his career he'll be in that list for sure.
I completely disagree. No doubt Floyd is a great fighter. But even if he closes out his career with wins over Hatton, Cotto, and Mosley...he will not be in the top 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by LEGION
I think that by the time he does retire he will be in my list just not yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by LEGION
Where is Roberto Duran? At Lightweight, he was simply pure destruction.
Archie Moore? He was simply too hot and cold, got beaten too many times.
Roy Jones Jr.? Not in my book. He did not prove his legacy against other greats.
Willie Pep? Sandy Saddler beat him in 3 of 4 matches.
Duran was a great fighter but to me he was just too much of a brawler to be in this list because as Leonard showed in the second and third fights, if you kept to a boxing text book he was very beatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanrw
Archie Moore is in there for me because the earliest official weigh in I can find is 145lb which would be welterweight and he was still holding his own at heavyweight against the likes of Marciano just short of his 42nd Birthday. Also i dont believe he ever lost the light heavy title.
Roy Jones Jr beat only a couple of great fighters Toney and Hopkins. Then he has a decent list of good fighters he beat. But the reason ive got him in here is the style in which he beat them all, I mean the man used to win every single round of every single fight. surely that has to give him a shout?
And finally Pep.Yes Saddler beat him 3 of 4 fights but i believe that he was just the man that could beat him like Junior Jones was to Barrera. I think that in defensive boxing there has never been anyone as good as Pep and that is the reason hes in there.
sorry dude but right off the top..Jones jr. off....Pryor off...Hagler off...This Is Top ten ALL time Right ??Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Roberto duran on,Harry greb On,Micky walker on,sugar ray leonard off . Just my opinion,and I know alot of people are not big on Rating fighters they havent actually seen on the screen.But history texts and bios are not obsolete yet LOl.Threads like this can get vicious so good effort.
These lists are hard to figure. Not everyone judges off the same category. I agree that Duran was a tremendous LW, but the parts of his career that people remeber were not at 135. We could use the same logic on Evander. One of the most dominant and greatest cruisers of all time, but P4P top 10? Probably not. I think you have to judge on pure talent alone not record, championships or legacy. That being said RJJ is arguably one of the most talented fighters to ever get in the ring and would probably make it on my list
I rank them more in tiers than actually by numbers...
Tier I (The clear Top 2):
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
Tier II:
3/4. Joe Louis and Henry Armstrong (in either order)
5/6. Roberto Duran and Willie Pep (in either order)
Tier III (no particular order)
Sugar Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, Carlos Monzon, Benny Leonard
1st and foremost heres CC#1 on me and Welcome to Casa De Saddo where your opinion is sure to be crushed by some drunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
(WackOff3205 and or SalTheButcher)
2nd your list Pryro, RJJ, Moore & Hagler IMO don't belong in the top 10.
Look at these names and think and see if they have an arguement at being top 10:
Pernell
Duran
Monzon
'Finito' Lopez
JCC
Arguello
This is why I hate these post...Nothing to do with you rjj tszyu....Is just that no matter how good of a list a guy comes up with and how much of a quality arguement you make to support your theory the list is going to get tore up on....
Truth is once you start talking about fighters of such an elite caliber...it is more a matter of opinion then anything.....
EG- lets say you were making a list of the all time greatest HWts---the norm is Joe Louis and Ali are at 1 and 2 it just depends on whos list. When you put them into light either man could have beaten either depending on whos night it was at the time of the fight.
1. Suger Ray Robinson
2. Henary Armstrong
3. Willie Pep
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Roberto Duran
6. Benny leonard
7. Harry Greb
8. Joe Louis
9. Gene Tunney
10. Suger Ray Leonard
Pound for Pound is something i do not like because it does not give heavyweight divison credit
It's always the older fighters........
Well we could make seprate list the old timers meaning the 30's and back then after that we can make it the same maybe make it the 50's and back then make the other list newer fighter that would work
sorry dude but right off the top Duran goes back off ( he's very good but imo it's more about his badass image. top 20 sure but top five as some have him, not a chance) leanard outranks duran and goes back on. Arguello is another guy who is every bit as deserving as duran. good effort though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
Listen i love Leonard and i like him more then Duran i mean alot more but look you got remember the Duran before when he was a lightweight he was alot better at that weight before moving up
Thank you. At least someone agrees with me!Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
If i was doing a list about best p4p fighters based on skills and not achievements then my list would look something like this and this is not in order.
Salvador Sanchez
Ricardo Lopez
Roy Jones Junior
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Willie Pep
Sugar Ray Robinson
Alexis Arguello
Shane Mosley Lightweight
Muhammad Ali 1960s
When looking at the top 10 pound for pound you have to look at longevity, who they beat, how dominat they were at a weight class, how successful they were as champions, how successful they were when moving up in weight, how much weight they moved up and how good their acutaul talents were when it came down to it and records all depends on their eras some were weak and some were strong all depends on how people think of the time when that fighter was fighting i guess you could say
Oh come Ice what about Sugar Ray Leonard he had as much skill as the people in your list
I cosidered all these fighters when I made this list but IMO Pernell was only the second, third or fourth greatest of the 90s.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
#1 RJJ
#2 Between JCC, Pernell (I know these did a lot in the 80s but they cemented their legacy in the 90s) and Oscar De La Hoya.
The others that you mentioned that are all great arguments and I have a lot of time for them all. The reason that i didnt have Arguello in and I did have Pryor was basically I wanted one or the other so I went for the one who beat the other!
if mosley is there why not Oscar, why not Chavez?Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft
These lists are only good for the individual. I'd prefer to see someones list and them explain their choices. There will never be a definitive list. Before anyone asks, I don't do these lists (unless it's hot men) it's to much of an autistic tendency.
I don't think these two deserve to be in top 10 but my top 10 would be someone like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Henry Armstrong
3 Willie Pep
4 Muhammad Ali
5 Roberto Duran
6 Benny Leonard
7 Harry Greb
8 Sandy Saddler
9 Julio Cesar Chavez
10 Jimmy Wilde
This lists probably sucks but i have never been that good at rating boxers in top 10.
Mosley was faster had alot more power at Lightweight he is better p4p fighter at Lightweight than Oscar and as for Chavez ?? i wouldn't call him a skillful fighter well he was good at what he done but i wouldn't call him really skillful fighter more of a tough iron chinned brawler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
I am not sure about JCC place to tell you truth if he is up their i believe SRL belongs as well
Listen Ice yet again if you have Mosely and Whitaker but not SRL i do not understand your logic
Are you telling me you think SRL was not as good at welter as Mosely and Whitaker were at lightweight because he was the same if not better when it came to skill i leaned towards better
Are you telling me you think SRL was not as good at welter as Mosely and Whitaker were at lightweight because he was the same if not better when it came to skillQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Who was on about Mosley at Welterweight ?? you have to realize Mosley was faster and hit alot harder than SRL P4P.
Ok SRL actually did slip my mind so how about this i take out Arguello and put SRL in.
Salvador Sanchez
Ricardo Lopez
Roy Jones Junior
Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Willie Pep
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Shane Mosley Lightweight
Muhammad Ali 1960s
How do you gage that by the way just to ask ICE or is it a opinion i mean who did Mosely face to prove he hit harder and speed was very close and Ray was the bigger man and was close to Mosely speed i will go watch some more flim they are very close in speed but i will look again
Ok you put him on sorry for busting your balls over it cc ice
Its not about who they fought thats why my list is not based on what they accomplished P4P Mosley hit harder just look at his KO percentage at Lightweight and was faster P4P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I guess i see were i find a problem with this because how can you judge a guys power with out looking at his oppisition and another thing is if you can show me footage of both in their prime and show how much faster mosley really was because he would have to be faster by more then what i am thinking because he was at a lighter weight then SRL and that is all i am going to say about that
'Sugar' Shane MosleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHY1A_KnnOA
Ok just one more and i will take a look at it and time the shots to see the difference between them
1)Sugar Ray Robinson
2)Muhammad Ali
3)Willie Pep
4)Henry Armstrong
5)Jack Johnson
6)Sugar Ray Leonard
7)Julio Caesar Chavez
8)Pernell Whittaker or Floyd Mayweather Jr.
9)Marvin Hagler or Carlos Monzon
10)Alexis Arguello or Salvador Sanchez
Id like to state that originally i had Srl at 8 with Floyd Jr.
I thought Srl deserved pernells ranking at 6 so i switched. However i couldnt bring Floyd to six yet so i stuck him at 8 with Pernell.
I think this p4p list displays my penchant for Boxer/punchers and all action fighters, but i think its reasonably fair.
I don't like making lists, but the ones that stand out to me are...
Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran (he's fought everywhere from lightweight to super middleweight with success, that is P4P personified), Roy Jones Jr (say what you want about his compedition, Roy Jones in terms of skill was possibly THE best of all time. You'll never see someone who can do what Jones could in the ring again IMO), Henry Armstrong, Pernell Whitaker, Benny Leonard, Muhammad Ali, and Floyd Mayweather Jr.
If you don't think Floyd belongs amoung the P4P greats of all time, you're either biased or you have your head up your ass.
Roy was amazing no doubt. On his night he may well have been thee best ever but....
His longevity was much less than other fighters on my list...
His Legacy does not contain near as many repauatable names as the guys iv included.
When he did fall from grace it was brutally by a KO and he was unable to avenge.
His career isn't done yet so i can't fully judge.
(That may sound as if it conflicts with my inclusion of PBF but Floyd has done enough already to make the list having ticked off names such as DLH, Castillo, Gatti, Corrales even Chavez.)
Actually some people rate Whitaker in top 10 and Jones best wins are not far off Whitaker's im not saying Jones should be in top 10 but people slate Jones opposition all the time and his record is probably one of the best of his era.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Jones Whitaker
Bernard Hopkins James McGirt
Virgil Hill Julio Cesar Chavez
Montel Griffin Azumah Nelson
John Ruiz Roger Mayweather
James Toney Diosbelys Hurtado
Mike McCallum Jose Luis Ramirez
Vinny Pazienza Rafael Pineda
World Champion At. World Champion At
Middleweight Lightweight
Supermiddleweight Lightwelterweight
Lightheavyweight Welterweight
Heavyweight
I have watched alot of the Sugar Ray Leonard and Mosley and they are very close i give it to mosley by a hair but considering that he was 2 weight classes below Ray i give it pound for pound even between them and as far as Kos be i think the competion plays a big part in how great a fighters power is so i am not sure if shane was more powerful or leonard at welter simple had guys who could take the better punchs and better fighter all around but any how i will stop beating a dead horse and thank you you ice for your input i like having a good debate and that is all i have to say