Printable View
People are getting taller, larger and heavier and boxers are too. Given what I saw today there needs to be a cut off point because guys at 6'6 are fast and can move now but it doesn't make for a good fight when the other guy is so much smaller. When they fight a 6'2 guy it is not a contest. It's like a middle weight fighting a heavy. I think starting a Super heavy weight division would give more cred to the Heavies and give super heavies more opposition.
I don't think there should be a super heavyweight division. However, I wouldn't mind seeing the cruiserweight limit go up to about 210 or maybe 215.
There needs to be LESS divisions and LESS titles.
Primo Carnera
Buddy Baer
Nicolay Valuev
Those are a couple reasons for NO superheavyweight division
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I almost agree with that...If not for the fact IMO heavyweights are not going to stay so large....The average HW will be around 6'1"-6'4" 220-250 again with in a few years....
Besides like Lyle said there have not been too many great big big men...Valuev...OK fighter but not elite..average at best..his size is the only thing in his favor...
Who else?...Carnera, Baer, Whitiker, Grant, all fell on thier faces when pushed....The best big HWTS have been
The Klitschkos, and of Course Lennox Lewis....
I would count Foreman but he is really the norm of an average HW today plus he only stood 6'3"...and at his prime was around 225 I think.....
Also if you need depth in one division it's definently heavyweight!
I guess I agree with that particularly less titles. When I had a more sober think about it, it does seem a bit unworkable anyway. Perhaps as sweetpea suggests the cruiser weight limit could increase, i'd then suggest it could be renamed Heavy weight and then have super heavy after that going from light heavy W to HeavyW makes more sense maybe than light H Cruiser W heavy W. Who put the cruiser in there anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think they did have a superheavy type division. I watched Harry Funmaker and Butterbean fight one time...... :rolleyes:
Yeah but that was in the extra super stupid weight division i thought?Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Errr ok right we are going to solve the problem of a chronically lacking heavyweight division with barely a handful of competent stars by splitting that division into two :confused:
Unless Jesus is in charge to do what he did with the loaves and fish I fail to see how taking half the heavies away and putting the in a new division is going to add quality :confused:
Yes i'm starting to think that I shouldn't think out loud.Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
I know that feeling :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
I'm up for a Super Heavy Division providing Cruiser goes to 210 with Heavweight 210-250 Super Heavy beyond that. Tradition will see it not happen though.
No way there isn't enough talent for them to split up the heavyweight division. Holyfield fought bigs and held his own, Chris Byrd in his prime could do it against most guys... I think a guy like Tyson in his prime would KO Klitschko for sure, same with Joe Frazier, or a lot of guys who would be considered too small... In fact I think if you are too big its a disadvantage because the little guys should have way more stamina (Valuev against Chagaev is an example) Big guys are too lumbersome, its just the little guys aren't in good enough shape, and they don't use creative methods to beat their opponent. They should watch Mayweather fight Corrales or Toney fighting bigger guys or how Tyson got inside. One thing they should do, and should have done for a long time is not allow the Taller guys to hold on the inside, It would have been a totally different fight if Wlad didn't tie Sultan up on the inside everytime he got inside, Tyson really suffered against Lennox and HOlyfield because they were allowed to tie him up, and I think they take away points much quicker than they do for it.
Mike Tyson and David Tua are both under 6 foot and they had pretty good careers at Heavyweight and both beat much taller opponents.
No need for change.
Aha see I have a supporter. All you naysayers are feeling the pressure now!!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Must be an Aussie thing. One of our local guys, Aussie Cruiser champ recently fought at "Super Cruiser Weight". Wouldn't that just be heavy weight? Couldn't figure that out.
Yes you are spot on. However I guess it's the division where you may be fighting someone much heavier and taller and not just because they can eat the whole Macdonald's menu in one sitting ala Butterbean.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
It probably wouldnt hurt to move all the weights up 5 pounds or so now that people are bigger in general. Start strawweight at 110, welter could be 152, SMW 173 and so on. HAHA as if it'll happen.
In case people are wondering, I do realise it won't happen but was mainly thinking of the poor little sods who have to get in with these monsters ;). But I guess that's one of the attractions of the division and why it can be (at times) good to see a tiny 6 footer beat up a 6'5 + guy. It just hasn't happened for A while.
Chagaev v Valuev?Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Sultan v Briggs?
What are you talking about, Chagaev beat Valuev and Valuev is WELL over 6'5 ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Heavyweight needs the big size differences it's supposed to be the relm of the best fighters and if there is a guy that's 5'10 210 that can beat a superheavyweight it adds drama to the division....if there is a big guy who can dominate in a violent manner that is bigger then it adds to the aura of invincibility.
If you make a superheavyweight division or up the weight for cruiserweight then you make a bigger cruiserweight division and who the fuck cares about cruiserweights???? (aside from the Haye and Macca fans....crazy bastards)
No more weight divisions please. We have had fighters like Tyson that could KO any boxer of any size with a punch. Now that the heavy weight division is not the best what good it will make to it having an additional division.
What happened yesterday was that Klitschko made a very intelligent and careful, but boring fight (except for a few moments), dominating with his jab the 12 rounds. He avoid exchanges preventing to be hit hardly. This may happen in other divisions where we have very tall boxers such as Williams at 147. If this is the case, then we may need weight and height limits for each division.
I remember alot of talk about creating another division years ago when guys like Grant,Goofy,Lewis etc were hitting there strides.
Personnaly I think size can be overrated at times.One more division would just water It down even further.Hey,Maybe Tye Fields would get that Title shot he Thinks he wants so bad............timber!
I think we just need Huge Heavys that do not take the term "fighting tall" to a pin point literal translation :p, But to each his own.
Yeah fair point although Chagaev and Sultan have never beaten these big guys like Tyson used to. That's more what I was referring to, not just winning but beating them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Yes they won but certainly not in an exciting fashion such as Tyson or Tua could produce by beating big guys up. That's what I was kind of getting at.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Ahhhh! No....Quote:
Originally Posted by bikersk
Come on bikersk... Were trying to cut down the # of divisions and you want to add one.... :confused:
Like we need another 4 more titles/champs.... Fighters like Henry Armstrong, Joe 'Barbados Demon' Walcott fought through divisions regardless of weight, height, reach etc. etc. if those fighters did it why should we add another division now?
Yes I know - I had a Homer Simpson moment DOH!! But I guess my thinking (very amber coloured tho it was) at the time was due to the average size of guys ever increasing it might be worth consideration. As it turns out maybe it's not worth considering. We could always get rid of straw weight and cruiser weight......... But hey nothing was ever achieved by stopping stupid people from saying dumb things.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
what about a james toney weight class 160 upto 500 pounds :lickish:
to be honest i feel we already have enough divisions
Not the greatest of threads but it did spawn this little gem ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Ok Ok not my finest moment. It seemed oddly reasonable at the time though :alcoholic:Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis