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Is Linear Championship as prestigious as the alphabets?
-I cant edit the title :(
Cassamayor is the linear lightweight champion but Nate Campbel after conqering Juan Diaz has the Belts.
So do you think that the Linear Championships is as Prestigious as the WBC, WBA and IBF?
Absolutly the Linear/The Ring championship has more importance. Joel Cassamayor beat Diego Corralas to become champion, and he will be champion until someone beats him.
However, Cassamayor is a horrible poster child for the THe Ring because he has been extremely inactive, his last fight was a horrible gift decision, and while this was going on, Juan Diaz went around and collected all the alphabet trinkets.
A good example would be Kelly Pavlik. He beat the man who beat the man.....If he is ever stripped of his alphabet titles, the public will still recognize him as THE Middleweight Champion of the World.
Of course it is LENNOX LEWIS is still the Linear heavyweight champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Because From when Patterson beat Moore the true champ is the man who beat the man.
The reason LENNOX LEWIS boxed Shannon Briggs was not because Briggs held the WBU title. It was because by beating Foreman Briggs was the linear champ.
And no matter how little anyone rates Briggs in the history of boxing for a very short time he held the legitimate heavyweight championship of the world.
The problem is Seanie he didn't beat Foreman, Foreman was robbed and Foreman was what 47 year's old ??Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Well when it comes to the Lineal Title you have to go to the old motto that sais the title does not make the champion but the champion makes the title.
The best example of this is when Roy Jones ruled the 175lb division he was never the linear champion. But he was without a doubt THE MAN at that division.
So the answer is: It depends on who is the linear champion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
What a crock of dogs pooh.
Jones inherited Michazelski titles.
He was scared to box outside America.
Michazelski has more claim to being the linear champ than Jones ever had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
The record books says Briggs won and so did the judges.
HmmmmQuote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Are you sure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Explain to me which part of my post is a crock of dogs pooh....
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Jones won titles Michazkeski was forced to give up.
He refused to box Michazlski cos he was scared.
You saying Jones deserves to be liner champ is a massive crock of dogs pooh.
He doesnt deserve it.
Yea and the record books say Spinks beat Holmes in there 2nd fight but there isn't a single boxing fan i've ever met who thinks Spinks deserved that decision. If you honestly think Briggs was a legit Linear champion then you are dreaming. Foreman was 47 years old for crying out loud and it was a damn right highway robbery, there was even an investigation because it was such a bad decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
And as for Jones vs Dariusz statement get real, Jones record at LHW was much better than Dariusz's. Plus lets not forget Jones offered Dariusz a fight in USA and Dariusz denied it. But Jones didn't want to go to Germany so it works both ways. And lets not forget Dariusz struggled with the likes of Richard Hall who Jones toyed with. And plus lets not forget Julio Cesar Gonzalez gave Dariusz his first loss and totally out boxed him. Another fighter Jones toyed with and floored Gonzalez 3 times.
Jones best Wins at LHW
Montel Griffin
Mike McCallum
Virgil Hill
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
Eric Harding
Reggie Johnson
Clinton Woods
Dariusz's best Wins at LHW
Virgil Hill
Montel Griffin
Graciano Rocchigiani x2
Who's record looks better now ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Ummm... NO I never said that. I said that he was not the Linear Champion. IMO he should not be considered the linear champion because he never beat Darious who was deservatly so, the the linear champion.
All I'm saying is that in that case the belts held more weight than the linear title. I respect Darious but I think it is safe to say that Jones was the #1 175lber of his time.
IncorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
The Ring Magazine belts are the ONLY ones that matter.
I couldn't even tell you who owns the WBC, WBA, IBF in any of the divisions, because they're completely worthless.
Ricky Hatton may not hold any major title but he is considered the true champion at light welterweight.
I'm with you bro, the alphabets don't exist to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
As for Jones/ Dariusz me & Mick had a long debate awhile back. Mick said cause Hill & Maske fought that created a linear champ but I disagreed because Jones had fought in the division before that fight occurred so Hill & Maske weren't the 2 best fighters in the division. From there Jones put all 3 belts together something Dariusz didn't (even if he was stripped unfairly he didn't get Jones part) so in my eyes Jones has more claim to the LH linear title than Dariusz.
The alphabet titles have been diluted to the point of being Irrelevant.Love the Rings mind set.They are cutting teeth also with the "Technical" point of view.Do any of us actually believe Casamayor "beat" Santa-Cruz ? Confounded record books lol. The networks do not need the Championship banner any more to push a fight.
Its really hard to track the linear championship if we consider close decisions/robberries :(
so eventhough the majority of stakes holders thinks that Cassamayor lost. he didnt get the L that should have transafered the title.
PAC should take on Cassa after Diaz. IF he wins that's 3 linear titles in 3 different division ( FLy, Feather, Lighweight )
He's gotta get past Marquez 1st... one step at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
History is littered with bad decisions, some involving the greatest fighters ever. The only way to keep consistency is to go with the W. We may not like it or agree with it but that is how it will be seen by history
you're right JMM is a very dangerous fighter i got carried away ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
To be linear champ is to unify all the alphabet titles until you do that I see you as only a titleholder or contender.
Or you can beat the man who has unified the belts.
thats how I see it anyway.
It is...but in the lightweight division, there is only one champion in my eyes. Casamayor clearly lost to Santa Cruz, David Diaz clearly lost to Morales. So Campbell is the only one I can respect as champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Isn't Marquez-Pac for the linear Super Feather?Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
No, not exactly. You can trace a lineage to champions back to the time before boxing got broken up into a million sanctioning bodies. BUT - if a lineal champ retires or vacates without being beaten - aka Lewis - the lineage ends and can only be renewed by unifying. In some divisions, where there was never a single champ, like SMW, the lineage doesn't get created until unification occurs, ie, Calzaghe just became the first to unify SMW. He became the ring champ and he has established a lineage. Now that lineage might die, unless he comes back down to 168 after the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doot
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
It is...but in the lightweight division, there is only one champion in my eyes. Casamayor clearly lost to Santa Cruz, David Diaz clearly lost to Morales. So Campbell is the only one I can respect as champion.
But Casamayor got the decision so remained champion, if you want to got against that then you have to do the same to all the other bad decisions throughout history. Going by what the record book says is the only logical way. You may respect Campbell as the best fighter in the division but he is not the champion... you have to beat the man to be the man!
The Ring championship policy:Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanNo, not exactly. You can trace a lineage to champions back to the time before boxing got broken up into a million sanctioning bodies. BUT - if a lineal champ retires or vacates without being beaten - aka Lewis - the lineage ends and can only be renewed by unifying. In some divisions, where there was never a single champ, like SMW, the lineage doesn't get created until unification occurs, ie, Calzaghe just became the first to unify SMW. He became the ring champ and he has established a lineage. Now that lineage might die, unless he comes back down to 168 after the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doot
Championship vacancies can be filled by winning a box-off between The Ring’s number-one and number-two contenders, or, in certain instances, a box-off between our number-one and number-three contenders.
Calzaghe became champion by fighting Lacy. Casamayor's lineage can be traced back to Castillo & Lazcano fighting for the vacant title when Mayweather moved up.
10-0
I think so. my mistake that makes it 4 if he gets the lightweight titleQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnIsn't Marquez-Pac for the linear Super Feather?Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Anything is more prestigious than the alphabet titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Exactly. Alphabet titles are a thing of the past. We are heading back to a time where champions can only lose their titles in the ring. ala The Ring Magazine.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPeaAnything is more prestigious than the alphabet titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Look at Dawson dropping his WBC trinket like the garbage that it is, in order to take a more meaningful fight.
ring magazine should not be considered an actual championship more an accurate evaluation of divisional rankings.
Nadal won wimbledon but he is still 2nd in the world
Italy won the world cup but theyre not number 1 in the fifa rankings
Rankings are an estimation of who exactly is the best, but a championship it isnt!!
If the Ring doesn't keep track of who the Real Champions are, then who will?
The alphabet gangs so regularly strip titles, award titles, and create interim and "regular" titles, that there is no way of telling who the champ of each division is.
That is where the Ring comes in. All they are really doing is following the lineage of the Championship, but it is rapidly gaining approval from the boxing world which is sick of the corrupt alphabet gangs which have driven the sport into obscurity(in the US)
my answer to that question would be a NO!.
Lineal Championship is more prestigious than alphabet belts.:cool:
Amen, to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
For those who don't know the history behind lineal champs for the Heavys & Ligh Heavys here it is I'll do the last few:
HW: Holy, Moorer, Foreman, Briggs, Lewis, Rahman, Lewis.
LHW: Spinks, Hill, Dariusz, Gonzalez, Erdie
I didn't make them up, don't believe me look them up. :)
The Ring Belt is the one that matters. Even lineal champions can be fake champs like Dariusz was at 175.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
and the greatest boxer EVER. Knocked out a prime castillo with the best body shot EVER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxerQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
and the greatest boxer EVER. Knocked out a prime castillo with the best body shot EVER.
Prime castillo??? i don't think so mate.. He knocked an old castillo who was battling the weigh-ins than the actual fight.
anyway, alphabet titles and linear titles as well are fraud sometimes. Take a look at casamayor.. lets be honest here.. isn't that fight with santa cruz he was gifted? How come they award that to el cepillo. it should be vacant until someone else unify the division. back to square 1. Campbell is the front runner in there so does pacman. We already know that casmayor wants no piece of campbell so thats another issue. Legitimate number 1 campbell has the right to fight the champion. But the champion ducks him.. so strip him for not fighting the best around. sad but true. Now that Ring Mag was owned by a promoter (which happen to be the promoter of casamayor)... i doubt if still has the credibility like they used too. so on and on... this is the problem in boxing. alphabet titles if unify is far more credible now than 1 linear Mag award controlled by a certain powerful promoter.
Hey antimoron, I think he was using something that us morons like to call sarcasm. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by antimoronQuote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxerQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
and the greatest boxer EVER. Knocked out a prime castillo with the best body shot EVER.
Prime castillo??? i don't think so mate.. He knocked an old castillo who was battling the weigh-ins than the actual fight.
Who made "The Ring magazine" God? or all knowing?
Opinions are "subjective" if you don't know the meaning of the word, look it up!
A "Linear Champion" is subjective and has no more or less validity than do the Alphabet Belts. "Prestigious" depends on how many followers respect the title holder. Some "Champions" carry more prestige than others.
The man who beat the man... what a load of BS! The only "True Boxing Champion" is a "UNDISPUTED CHAMPION" including a Linear Champion. You know when there is "one" because everyone agrees he is the "Champion".
The Ring, WBO, WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO and any other contender; when you hold them "ALL" you will surely be an "UNDISPUTED CHAMPION" otherwise you only hold the "Opinion" of the respective followers.
BTW: The Ring Magazine editor Nigel Collins is not "All knowing".
Wrong, the policies of the alphabet straps make is next to impossible to unify nowadays. Say fighter 'X' holds the WBO and WBC titles. Without even stepping into the ring fighter 'X' can lose those straps because of the following.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
A) Promotional problems and poor business decisions, make it impossible to pay sanctioning fees
Result: Both titles stripped
B) The WBO and WBC have the same timeline requirement to get a mandatory in, but the boxers for the mandatory are different. Fighter 'X' chooses to defend the WBO title
Result: WBC strips the title
C) The WBO decides fighter 'X' is not a good representitive of their organization
Result: WBO strips the title
D) The WBC decides they don't agree with the official decision in the previous fight.
Result: WBC strips the title, and gives it to the man fighter 'X' just beat
E) Fighter 'X' decides he wants to unify against the IBF strapholder.
Result: WBC and WBO don't recognize the IBF champ existing so they both strip the titles
These sound crazy but they are all scenarios that have happened. The Ring Champioship is the only way to properly keep track of who the real champ is. Alphabet straps are nothing more than a marketing tool. Sure you will get more respect if you have more of them, but the only one that ultimately matters is The Ring.