Nationalism in opinions on fighters and fights

Well someone had to say it, it had to be said....As I am a "noob" on the forum I dont know if this has been brought up. But, as I read through posts and opinions, I see alot of people over stating a fighters abilities or maybe discounting another fighters skills, then I see that they have a flag of their fighters home country. I've seen it alot on the Calzaghe fight pretty much a white - black thing on that one; I myself am guilty of it with the up coming Cotto V. Margarito fight (look through any post on this fight and youll see where my loyalty lies.)
I dont really think its a discrimination or racism thing, I see it as more of a pride and Nationalistic thing.

Do you see this too? Are you guilty of it? Do you discount anyones opinion because of it?

I think it's only natural for many to feel a certain affiliation to fighters that come from "their" part of the world, and only natural to view the fighter as representing them.

I never saw any poster on this site class Calzaghe-Hopkins as a "white/black" thing.. The MAJORITY here aren't as ignorant as Hopkins. Fact.

Nothing's wrong with it. I see no big deal. 'Just showing some supports for fighter from his beloved country.

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Nothing's wrong with it. I see no big deal. 'Just showing some supports for fighter from his beloved country.

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Not saying anythings wrong with it, like I said I have done it myself. But, at times it obscures objective opinions makes a person believe that there guy whoever that is has a chance against a way more gifted fighter etc.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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HAHA. :o:o:o:o

It can not be denied that It creeps in.Honestly Pride is a good thing as far as nationality .If your not proud of your country and or your Fav. Fighters ,Is the heart really in It??On Cotto Vs. Margarito,There probably is no more heated rivalry the last couple of decades than Puerto Rico and Mexico when those fighters meet??Unfortunately its when we fail to utilize our Head/mind as well.It can get carried away and the next thing you know Some are letting there ignorance shine with broad generalities and cursing Insults on Fighters and in the worst cases Other Forum Members :-X.I must admit that when logic and reasonable debate fail,And the insults continued,I have Aimed some verbal Barbs as well:ziplip:.....BTW welcome to the Forum

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

It can not be denied that It creeps in.Honestly Pride is a good thing as far as nationality .If your not proud of your country and or your Fav. Fighters ,Is the heart really in It??On Cotto Vs. Margarito,There probably is no more heated rivalry the last couple of decades than Puerto Rico and Mexico when those fighters meet??Unfortunately its when we fail to utilize our Head/mind as well.It can get carried away and the next thing you know Some are letting there ignorance shine with broad generalities and cursing Insults on Fighters and in the worst cases Other Forum Members :-X.I must admit that when logic and reasonable debate fail,And the insults continued,I have Aimed some verbal Barbs as well:ziplip:.....BTW welcome to the Forum

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thanks for the welcome, I totally see it and I know many do to but dont say or admit it. I think its fine and it doesnt bther me in the least even when it gets personal really I mean its only the f'ing internet I can brush comments on just that pride and nationalism. Its just when they start thinking that A there fighter is gonna "destroy" another as you and I were discussing on the other thread about Margo V Cotto. It aint no walk in the park for either fighter but there so many pro Cotto Ricans that make it sound like this is a sparring session for Cotto why because they wanna see thir guy win coo im all about it but dont discount the other guy (haha who happens to be my guy) because you are so narrow visioned because of the pride thing.

Anyway, its all good even makes the fights more exciting to watch!

I'm of the opinion that nationalism in any form is a bad and harmful thing, but that makes me a hypocrite because I am just as prone to it as anyone else. I seriously doubt I would be as big a fan of Steve Molitor if he wasn't from Canada.

Well, I think it's fine to support fighters from your area or country just you have still try to remain at least slightly objective. I'm from the Bay Area and tend to support a lot of the fighters from around here; Ward, Guerrero, Nonito ect.

But as always, you can't let that clout your view on the fighter. I like Ward, think he's going to be a P4P star and that would stay the same if he was from Cuba and not the Bay Area. But as a fan you have to be reasonable, I know Ward isn't going to be ready for Calzaghe right away.

Same with Guerrero, Guerrero is a great fighter but I'm not stupid enough to think he belongs in the ring with Juan Manuel Marquez.

So it's fine to be a fan of a fighter, whatever motivates you to be that fan whether it's his locale, skills, ring attire, ect. That's fine but you can't become what people on the internet call "fanboy", that's when you have a problem.

I'm from Canada and cannot call myself a fan of any Canadian fighter. Molitor to me is OK I guess, but if he fights De Leon or Lopez in the future, I want him to lose badly ;D

I am biased because I like Power Punchers. it does not matter where they are from, the color of their skin, their religious believes, or how much they donate to charity. I just want excitement and drama.

I also enjoy slick boxers, but I am more picky when it comes to them. Guzman for instance, is incredible to watch.

I think Cutmemick , Gamo, Lyle, Danny, Saddo and myself are one of the most neutral boxing fans in here. That's 4 nationalities right there

Prove us wrong!!:cool:

I don't usually root for a boxer based on ethnicity or where they are from, I base it on willingness to fight all-comers and a good training ethic.

I'm trying to remember the last time a fighter really rallied for America, and used it as a point of pride. It's odd to me that many boxers live in America and have for a long time, but because they were born somewhere else they claim allegiance to their birth country.

You don't see too many American flags anymore.

Well theres a difference...

Some people go over the top... It happens. It's just the difference between controlling your emotions and not controlling them.

I learned this a while back and I learned it the hard way. I used to come on here and I used to log out pissed off and mad at debates I had going here and I thought to myself how stupid is it to go on line to try and relax and have some fun but instead end up getting pissed... :confused:

It's fucken silly, so now I don't pay attention to those who go "Country Pride" crazy on here. So as long as it doesn't disrespect anyone and they don't go overboard all is fine.
We have pride in our country/countries but take me for example both Cotto (whos PR) and Margarito (whos Mexican) are fighting each other those have been 2 of my fav. boxers for years but because my parents are Mexican that doesn't mean I rooting for Margarito. I'm actually rooting for Cotto.

Shit another one of my fav. fighters whom I've followed for years is Kess and the fuckers Danish...

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

I'm from Canada and cannot call myself a fan of any Canadian fighter. Molitor to me is OK I guess, but if he fights De Leon or Lopez in the future, I want him to lose badly ;D

I am biased because I like Power Punchers. it does not matter where they are from, the color of their skin, their religious believes, or how much they donate to charity. I just want excitement and drama.

I also enjoy slick boxers, but I am more picky when it comes to them. Guzman for instance, is incredible to watch.

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How wrong can you be, I see Molitor beating PDL if they fight in the future. Molitors the future....

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Originally Posted by Puya

I think Cutmemick , Gamo, Lyle, Danny, Saddo and myself are one of the most neutral boxing fans in here. That's 4 nationalities right there

Prove us wrong!!:cool:

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Thanks Puya...

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I don't usually root for a boxer based on ethnicity or where they are from, I base it on willingness to fight all-comers and a good training ethic.

I'm trying to remember the last time a fighter really rallied for America, and used it as a point of pride. It's odd to me that many boxers live in America and have for a long time, but because they were born somewhere else they claim allegiance to their birth country.

You don't see too many American flags anymore.

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Great post killersheep... Well done :appl:

I always pull for my country but it does not mean that I will go down the bookies and put a bet on the result, mostly I hope for a good fair fight and the best man wins.
When I watch the fights that dont involve a brit I am pulling for the underdog although that may not be the fighter that I think would win. I like the David v Goliath scenario.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

I'm from Canada and cannot call myself a fan of any Canadian fighter. Molitor to me is OK I guess, but if he fights De Leon or Lopez in the future, I want him to lose badly ;D

I am biased because I like Power Punchers. it does not matter where they are from, the color of their skin, their religious believes, or how much they donate to charity. I just want excitement and drama.

I also enjoy slick boxers, but I am more picky when it comes to them. Guzman for instance, is incredible to watch.

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How wrong can you be, I see Molitor beating PDL if they fight in the future. Molitors the future....

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Originally Posted by Puya

I think Cutmemick , Gamo, Lyle, Danny, Saddo and myself are one of the most neutral boxing fans in here. That's 4 nationalities right there

Prove us wrong!!:cool:

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Thanks Puya...

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I don't usually root for a boxer based on ethnicity or where they are from, I base it on willingness to fight all-comers and a good training ethic.

I'm trying to remember the last time a fighter really rallied for America, and used it as a point of pride. It's odd to me that many boxers live in America and have for a long time, but because they were born somewhere else they claim allegiance to their birth country.

You don't see too many American flags anymore.

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Great post killersheep... Well done :appl:

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I never said Molitor would lose, I just said I would want him to lose ;D

Noting wrong with natonalism im my eyes, boxing is so full of talent from so many different walks of life that if you limit yourself to liking fighters on how they look than how they fight is not only stupid but you will be rooting for a loosing fighter half the time since race has nothing to do with ability in this sport. Properly trained, and with enough determination and all a that other crap we're taught to have when we're young a freakin multi-colored checkered guy could be champion. Race is usually only a real big factor online by myspacers and children of that sort, who really know very little about boxing in the first place and only contribute when a person of thier race wins to talk shit. And generally the only response they have to anything is based on thier race beating whatever other race.

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Originally Posted by Mar

Noting wrong with natonalism im my eyes, boxing is so full of talent from so many different walks of life that if you limit yourself to liking fighters on how they look than how they fight is not only stupid but you will be rooting for a loosing fighter half the time since race has nothing to do with ability in this sport. Properly trained, and with enough determination and all a that other crap we're taught to have when we're young a freakin multi-colored checkered guy could be champion. Race is usually only a real big factor online by myspacers and children of that sort, who really know very little about boxing in the first place and only contribute when a person of thier race wins to talk shit. And generally the only response they have to anything is based on thier race beating whatever other race.

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See I cannot root for someone from my country just because. I hold a grudge against protected fighters. I find most of them in my neck of the woods protected.

Look at Bute for instance. He has never stepped up in class as a fighter and seems perfectly happy to be fighting fringe guys over and over again. In his last fight he even dug deeper into the barrel and somehow re-animated the corpse of William Joppy for an opponent. It may not even be his fault, but the whole situation disgusts me.

Then you got that laughing stock Jean Pascal, who talks a big fight, but has since run cowering since Miranda accepted his challenge.

Molitor is not quite as bad. He is slowly increasing his competition, but he is a small guy who is 28 years old. Time for the guy to step the fuck up. I actually kinda like him, but the channel who carries his fights here are so damn biased, that I cannot even listen to them. They make him sound like Ray Robinson in there.

Then you had Kirk Johnson, he was actually from my home town. Sure he turned into a fat bastard, but at least he took a shot at it and fought some good competition. He still turned out to be wasted talent which pisses me off. he could have done much better with discipline.

I like fighters who take a stand and let the chips fall. This is why i respect guys like Miranda. To me he represents what a fighter supposed to do. Get in there and war it up. If you lose, pick yourself up and get back at it again.

OK I am done venting before I take an Aneurysm here!LOL

Rep coming your way.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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People are letting this slide but seriously: am I missing something here?
Is there an underlying joke Im not getting ? :-\

You dont enter into any debate to "let anyone win it" ever! white or black.
If they have won and you keep talking because you cant admit defeat then that is your one eyed shallow end of the pool mentality showing its true colours agaisnt the majority vote.
Your statement means you are either stupid enough to lose this one all by your self right there on your first comment;
Or I have missed the plot in which case I will appoligize.

I change mid fight sometimes, my heart is always with an underdog , country seems to come second when it becomes obvious someones doing it hard ,I automatically start barraking for them.
I want to see a good fight, I hate walk overs.

Yeah i see it a lot on this forum sadly.

A lot of hate for fighters of certain nationalities which is uncalled for.

Give a fighter a nationality label ie american, peurto rican, british, german, mexican etc etc and he becomes a 'better fighter' regardless of what hes achieved in the sport of boxing compared to what other boxers have achieved.

The fact is that achievements are what count in this sport. ONLY ACHIEVEMENTS.

A fighters success is measured by his achievements in boxing. It doesnt matter what nationality someone is, or who rates them or not, the truth about the fighter comes down to what they have achieved.

When a totally unbias hall of fame is written up, it is the fighters who have achieved the most who belong in it.

No one, regardless of nationalism, prejudice, hate, racism etc etc can take away the achievements of any fighter, ultimately those are the credentials by which a fighter is judged on, ONLY THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS ;)

No offense but this forum isn't nationalistic at all at least compared to others. We have a vast blend of nationalities and before the flags, I could never tell you where half the posters were from. You can't go on just Hopkins - Calzaghe and also, you can't discount someone's opinion just because they are a fan of the fighter.

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Originally Posted by amat

No offense but this forum isn't nationalistic at all at least compared to others. We have a vast blend of nationalities and before the flags, I could never tell you where half the posters were from. You can't go on just Hopkins - Calzaghe and also, you can't discount someone's opinion just because they are a fan of the fighter.

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No offence taken mate :)

What i meant was that nationalism with respect to certain fighters. Not necessarily rooting for their own fighter...but are againat other fighter of certain nationalities.

I think that nationality of the fighter plays a great deal. Some people just love to hate fighters of certain nationalities.

I think there is a difference between sympathies and opinions/predictions.

Unless there was pretty special circumstances, I'd probably always root for a Danish fighter against a non-Danish fighter. Even if I didnt really like the fighter in question that much. [This might be due to coming from a small country, where there is only so many boxers to choose from - if you're American it's easier to 'afford' not caring about certain fighters].

This doesnt mean though that I dont try to keep an objective, unbiased opinion. [I may not always succeed in this, but at least I try].

In short: Nationalism in opinions on boxing is stupid. But favoring certain boxers because of nationalism [1] is not necessarily stupid IMO.

[1] I actually had a course on nationalism a few years ago. Here they distinguished between patriotism - liking your own country - and nationalism - disliking (people from) other countries. If this definition should be applied - I found it a bit stupid and simplified to be honest - nationalism is obviously a bad thing, while it is patriotism that I think should be allowed.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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People are letting this slide but seriously: am I missing something here?
Is there an underlying joke Im not getting ? :-\

You dont enter into any debate to "let anyone win it" ever! white or black.
If they have won and you keep talking because you cant admit defeat then that is your one eyed shallow end of the pool mentality showing its true colours agaisnt the majority vote.
Your statement means you are either stupid enough to lose this one all by your self right there on your first comment;
Or I have missed the plot in which case I will appoligize.

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He was just making a joke in light of Hopkins comments about the Calzaghe fight, least that's how I took it.. Hopkins said he'd never let a white boy beat him, then later wen't on to say it wasn't a racist comment or that he didn't have racist views etc. No need to nitpick at the wording he used.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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People are letting this slide but seriously: am I missing something here?
Is there an underlying joke Im not getting ? :-\

You dont enter into any debate to "let anyone win it" ever! white or black.
If they have won and you keep talking because you cant admit defeat then that is your one eyed shallow end of the pool mentality showing its true colours agaisnt the majority vote.
Your statement means you are either stupid enough to lose this one all by your self right there on your first comment;
Or I have missed the plot in which case I will appoligize.

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He was just making a joke in light of Hopkins comments about the Calzaghe fight, least that's how I took it.. Hopkins said he'd never let a white boy beat him, then later wen't on to say it wasn't a racist comment or that he didn't have racist views etc. No need to nitpick at the wording he used.

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Thank you my man. I'm glad someone got the joke.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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I certainly hope that was a joke:o

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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I certainly hope that was a joke:o

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Why? I'd never let a black person beat me at a debate either.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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I certainly hope that was a joke:o

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Why? I'd never let a black person beat me at a debate either.

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Oh and why is that?

What's in a color anyway?
:confused::confused::confused:

This has prob. been said already, not sure haven't read all replies...

But I believe nationalism brings a lot of fans to the sport who might not otherwise be involved, rooting for the hometown person etc.

The more fans walking thru the doors and tuning in on the tv for our sport the better I think, no matter how knowledgable or the reason.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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:lol: :lolhaha:

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Originally Posted by Mar

Noting wrong with natonalism im my eyes, boxing is so full of talent from so many different walks of life that if you limit yourself to liking fighters on how they look than how they fight is not only stupid but you will be rooting for a loosing fighter half the time since race has nothing to do with ability in this sport. Properly trained, and with enough determination and all a that other crap we're taught to have when we're young a freakin multi-colored checkered guy could be champion. Race is usually only a real big factor online by myspacers and children of that sort, who really know very little about boxing in the first place and only contribute when a person of thier race wins to talk shit. And generally the only response they have to anything is based on thier race beating whatever other race.

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Awesome post bro.
My favourite fighter when I was growing up was Chris Eubank but now that my favourite fighter is an american amongst others who are Mexican, Puerto Rican and other American's I get labelled a traitor by ignorant fucks who don't actually watch boxing for the boxing but watch it purely to get one up on another country. The wrong reasons to watch any sport in my opinion. Nothing wrong with having national pride but if that is the only reason you're watching the sport then you're a fool.

As somebody previously posted, if my countrymen are being protected (as most in the UK are i'm sorry to say) i'm not about to lie to myself and cheer them on anyway. I like to see the good fights being made and fighters chasing fights as soon as they are able to. Not just chase the big fights after they've racked up unimpressive 40+ undefeated streaks.

As long as the national pride doesn't get in the way of people's objectiveness then it's harmless.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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Not even funny in a joking manner...I tried to give neg rep but forgot to hit the box for it so don't think I was giving you anything positive on it...Gonna spread some positive rep around to the forum good guys then even it out

i dont know, i thought it was pretty funny myself.
its just a jab at hopkins and how ignorant his comment was.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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Not even funny in a joking manner...I tried to give neg rep but forgot to hit the box for it so don't think I was giving you anything positive on it...Gonna spread some positive rep around to the forum good guys then even it out

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With all due respect, you seem to be the only one getting bent out of shape over it. This hyper-sensitive political correctness is what's wrong with this country, in my humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

I'm not a racist, but I'll never let a black person beat me in a debate.

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Not even funny in a joking manner...I tried to give neg rep but forgot to hit the box for it so don't think I was giving you anything positive on it...Gonna spread some positive rep around to the forum good guys then even it out

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With all due respect, you seem to be the only one getting bent out of shape over it. This hyper-sensitive political correctness is what's wrong with this country, in my humble opinion.

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It is comments like that no matter what the context that ends up causing problems one way or another...And yes I am offended...I feel there is no place on the forums for comments that have to due with nationality, race, religion or otherwise....This is a boxing forum you want to make comments or take jabs like that there are 10,000 other type of forums to do it on

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Not even funny in a joking manner...I tried to give neg rep but forgot to hit the box for it so don't think I was giving you anything positive on it...Gonna spread some positive rep around to the forum good guys then even it out

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With all due respect, you seem to be the only one getting bent out of shape over it. This hyper-sensitive political correctness is what's wrong with this country, in my humble opinion.

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It is comments like that no matter what the context that ends up causing problems one way or another...And yes I am offended...I feel there is no place on the forums for comments that have to due with nationality, race, religion or otherwise....This is a boxing forum you want to make comments or take jabs like that there are 10,000 other type of forums to do it on

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I agree Daxx. WE may be hyper sensitive on this issue but I think jokes like that later on result to racial discrimination.

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Originally Posted by Jesse James

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Andre

People are letting this slide but seriously: am I missing something here?
Is there an underlying joke Im not getting ? :-\

You dont enter into any debate to "let anyone win it" ever! white or black.
If they have won and you keep talking because you cant admit defeat then that is your one eyed shallow end of the pool mentality showing its true colours agaisnt the majority vote.
Your statement means you are either stupid enough to lose this one all by your self right there on your first comment;
Or I have missed the plot in which case I will appoligize.

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He was just making a joke in light of Hopkins comments about the Calzaghe fight, least that's how I took it.. Hopkins said he'd never let a white boy beat him, then later wen't on to say it wasn't a racist comment or that he didn't have racist views etc. No need to nitpick at the wording he used.

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Thank you my man. I'm glad someone got the joke.

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I get the joke, but it's tasteless. Have some neg rep from me.