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I like Hatton, and I think he still one of the best fighters out there, but I shudder to think what Cotto would have done to him. Hatton doesn't defend his body which he has shown vulnerability to getting hit in the midsection, and I have no doubt Cotto would be able to time him coming in. I think Cotto would truly lay a beat down on Hatton.
At 147 no doubt but I think if they had met when Cotto was at 140 that Hatton would have won.
Hatton is still the best at 140, but I think any of the top 7-8 welters would beat him at 147.
If he rematched Floyd, I think he gets KO'd in 6 rounds or less, Cotto might KO him even earlier.
It would be quite brutal to see Cotto lay hands on Hatton. Cotto's jab alone would mess his face up badly. At 140 or 147 I would give it to Cotto; though Miguel was getting weak at the junior welter weight, correct?
Ricky's one of my favorite fighters, but that's a fight I'm glad won't happen.
I think that at 147 Cotto would savage Hatton, but at 140 it would be a very competitive fight. A weight-drained Cotto might have a lot of problems taking Hatton's body-punches, not to mention how exhausting it would be to be weight-drained and have to wrestle with Hatton the entire fight.
At 147 Hatton would get crushed.
Cotto wins at 147, hatton at 140
you guys are seriously not giving ricky the credit he deserves from saturday!!
I was pleading that Hatton fight Cotto at 140lb because Cotto was ready to go but at 147 Cotto would decapitate him which puts into perspective how idiotic a second fight with Mayweather is because he is not worthy of challenging him at that weight.
Bah Mayweather is smaller than Hatton naturally... look where they started their careers. Mayweather uses his great spead and defensive skills to compete at WW and LMW, but he isn't a natural WW at all. Who cares at 140? Cotto hasn't foughten there in years, and if Hatton had beaten MAyweather the fight would have been at 147... its like saying Roy Jones Jr would have beaten ALi at 175 after Ali came back after his 3 year ban. THere is no way ALi would have been able to make it back down, just like it would be impossible for Cotto to make 140 now. He's a lot bigger physically than he was at 140, and he's older by a few years.
Cotto would crush Hatton at any weight. 147 or 140. I wish they would fight soon. I would love to see Hatton get smashed again
I don't think Mayweather is naturally smaller than Hatton. I think Mayweather started off in the lower weights mainly because he was under-nourished. Over the years he's filled out and gained sized without a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
People make the mistake of thinking Hatton is huge, because of how much he weighs in between fights. The reality is, he only adds fat. He doesn't have to lose muscle mass to reach 140. That's why he loses weight quite easily.
Hatton doesn't have the core strength to compete at 147. Core strength is very important. Mayweather obviously does.
Cotto would crush Hatton at 147. Hatton would be too much at 140 (even if they fought 2 years ago).
If Hatton had beaten Floyd he'd be fighting Oscar - they'd be carving up about $100 million
And Mayweather-Cotto would have probably happened. So for fans of this fight, unlucky.
Stupid post. If Hatton was good enough to beat Mayweather (He isn't) I'm sure he could beat or give a very hard fight to Cotto; So when you look at it if Hatton had beat Mayweather a lot of people would be confident that he would beat Cotto.
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by piye
I also don't think for one minute Hatton would stay at 147. He would relinquish just like he did when he beat Collazo.
Hatton isn't a 147 fighter.....full stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onoGood point.Quote:
Originally Posted by piye
I also don't think for one minute Hatton would stay at 147. He would relinquish just like he did when he beat Collazo.
Hatton isn't a 147 fighter.....full stop.
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
7 pounds DOES make a world of difference. So you've never boxed I assume?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by onoGood point.Quote:
Originally Posted by piye
I also don't think for one minute Hatton would stay at 147. He would relinquish just like he did when he beat Collazo.
Hatton isn't a 147 fighter.....full stop.
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Plus most of the top welterweights are just way bigger than the top LWW.
Think of Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito. 7 pounds can mean the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep7 pounds DOES make a world of difference. So you've never boxed I assume?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Plus most of the top welterweights are just way bigger than the top LWW.
Think of Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito. 7 pounds can mean the world.
So by that logic your claiming someone of a natural body structure to move up to 154 like paul williams becomes completely ineffective at that weight level.
Mayweather was probably told when at SF not to bother moving up, yet has become the worlds greatest p4p fighter in 3 divisions higher than where he began.
Great fighters always learn to adapt, think you`ll find at least 90% of the great fighters of the last 20 years have made their names in a variety of different divisions!!
Stop changing my words. For example where I say "world of difference" you change it to "ineffective". Of course it will be easier for someone that's 6'0" tall to move from 147 to 154 than someone that's 5'6" to move from 140 to 147. Don't bring in that walking around weight crap about Hatton either his fighting weight is 140 period.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheep7 pounds DOES make a world of difference. So you've never boxed I assume?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Plus most of the top welterweights are just way bigger than the top LWW.
Think of Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito. 7 pounds can mean the world.
So by that logic your claiming someone of a natural body structure to move up to 154 like paul williams becomes completely ineffective at that weight level.
Mayweather was probably told when at SF not to bother moving up, yet has become the worlds greatest p4p fighter in 3 divisions higher than where he began.
Great fighters always learn to adapt, think you`ll find at least 90% of the great fighters of the last 20 years have made their names in a variety of different divisions!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepStop changing my words. For example where I say "world of difference" you change it to "ineffective". Of course it will be easier for someone that's 6'0" tall to move from 147 to 154 than someone that's 5'6" to move from 140 to 147. Don't bring in that walking around weight crap about Hatton either his fighting weight is 140 period.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
So by that logic your claiming someone of a natural body structure to move up to 154 like paul williams becomes completely ineffective at that weight level.
Mayweather was probably told when at SF not to bother moving up, yet has become the worlds greatest p4p fighter in 3 divisions higher than where he began.
Great fighters always learn to adapt, think you`ll find at least 90% of the great fighters of the last 20 years have made their names in a variety of different divisions!!
As is floyds natural weight 136, cottos 140, RJJ and hopkins 160...
need i go on????
Sure go on, I don't think any of those fighters could make that weight anymore, PBF may be an exception but I don't know if he could get below 140 anymore , but those are no longer their fighting weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheepStop changing my words. For example where I say "world of difference" you change it to "ineffective". Of course it will be easier for someone that's 6'0" tall to move from 147 to 154 than someone that's 5'6" to move from 140 to 147. Don't bring in that walking around weight crap about Hatton either his fighting weight is 140 period.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
As is floyds natural weight 136, cottos 140, RJJ and hopkins 160...
need i go on????
my point being it was all their originally natural weight divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSure go on, I don't think any of those fighters could make that weight anymore, PBF may be an exception but I don't know if he could get below 140 anymore , but those are no longer their fighting weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
As is floyds natural weight 136, cottos 140, RJJ and hopkins 160...
need i go on????
However they all now fight at bigger weights and are just as succesful.
Im the biggest hatton mark going, but to suggest he is great at 140 and complete poo at 147 is kinda naive!!!
To say that he performs as well at 147 as he does at 140 is even more naive. To say that 7 pounds doesn't make a difference is completely ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammermy point being it was all their originally natural weight divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSure go on, I don't think any of those fighters could make that weight anymore, PBF may be an exception but I don't know if he could get below 140 anymore , but those are no longer their fighting weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
However they all now fight at bigger weights and are just as succesful.
Im the biggest hatton mark going, but to suggest he is great at 140 and complete poo at 147 is kinda naive!!!
Let me spell it out since you are having a hard time with this.
A fighter has a fighting weight which is the sweet spot where their body will function on the highest level at the lowest weight. If they fight at a weight too low they will have slowed reactions and decreased stamina because the will have to dehydrate themselves to make that weight. If they fight at a weight too high, their power will be compromised. The fighting weight of a boxer will naturally increase as time goes on, as their body will not allow them to lose as much weight in a healthy way. So to say that the fighting weight of fighters that can't make that weight anymore is an exercise in ignorance.
You are 100% correct. I think some fighters have a wider sweetstop and they can move up or down without too much trouble. Hearns, for example, carried his power up a number of weight classes. It depends on your frame. Hearns had those wide shoulders, even when he was skinny. with Hatton's physique and style, he is a guy who can only fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepTo say that he performs as well at 147 as he does at 140 is even more naive. To say that 7 pounds doesn't make a difference is completely ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammermy point being it was all their originally natural weight divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
However they all now fight at bigger weights and are just as succesful.
Im the biggest hatton mark going, but to suggest he is great at 140 and complete poo at 147 is kinda naive!!!
Let me spell it out since you are having a hard time with this.
A fighter has a fighting weight which is the sweet spot where their body will function on the highest level at the lowest weight. If they fight at a weight too low they will have slowed reactions and decreased stamina because the will have to dehydrate themselves to make that weight. If they fight at a weight too high, their power will be compromised. The fighting weight of a boxer will naturally increase as time goes on, as their body will not allow them to lose as much weight in a healthy way. So to say that the fighting weight of fighters that can't make that weight anymore is an exercise in ignorance.
I have to agree with Sheep here i have sparred with naturally bigger fighters and i can tell you, you can feel the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep7 pounds DOES make a world of difference. So you've never boxed I assume?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Plus most of the top welterweights are just way bigger than the top LWW.
Think of Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito. 7 pounds can mean the world.
You don't understand how important that 7lbs is. He struggled with Collazo because Hatton's core strength was nowhere near what Collazo's was. That's why he couldn't push him back so easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by onoGood point.Quote:
Originally Posted by piye
I also don't think for one minute Hatton would stay at 147. He would relinquish just like he did when he beat Collazo.
Hatton isn't a 147 fighter.....full stop.
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Core strength is so important. Unfortunately it can take a few years to build the required core strength to be effective at a weight. Ricky only had 7 weeks and thats why he struggled.
He doesn't have the reach or punching power to be effective at 147 either.
Spot on some rep for that i think people actually need to experience what its like sparring/fighting against a naturally bigger fighter, i think a lot of people would be shocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoYou don't understand how important that 7lbs is. He struggled with Collazo because Hatton's core strength was nowhere near what Collazo's was. That's why he couldn't push him back so easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Core strength is so important. Unfortunately it can take a few years to build the required core strength to be effective at a weight. Ricky only had 7 weeks and thats why he struggled.
He doesn't have the reach or punching power to be effective at 147 either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI have to agree with Sheep here i have sparred with naturally bigger fighters and i can tell you, you can feel the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep7 pounds DOES make a world of difference. So you've never boxed I assume?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Plus most of the top welterweights are just way bigger than the top LWW.
Think of Paul Williams and Antonio Margarito. 7 pounds can mean the world.
Hammer you are once again being stupid, however fearing the wrath of your negative rep I will politely try to show you the light. :rolleyes:
Uncle Killersheep is right. You can be very very good at 140 and ineffective at 147. Hell Hatton is a classic example of this. Who did he fight at 147, Collozo. A guy who is pretty ackward and game but we can't really say he is world class can we. Where is he now?
Naturally, as Killsheep pointed, it is much easier for bigger guys to move up. So it would be substantially easier for Paul Williams or any large welter to move to 154 compared to a JW moving up to WW. That is common sense. They are moving up less %-wise.
It's easy watching Hatton at 140 and then watching him at 147 that 140 is clearly the better weight for him. Not nearly as sluggish and he was tiring down the stretch at welterweight, it's a big difference you can see just by watching.
Spot on. That's why Ricky will never be(or never was should I say)a force at 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoYou don't understand how important that 7lbs is. He struggled with Collazo because Hatton's core strength was nowhere near what Collazo's was. That's why he couldn't push him back so easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Core strength is so important. Unfortunately it can take a few years to build the required core strength to be effective at a weight. Ricky only had 7 weeks and thats why he struggled.
He doesn't have the reach or punching power to be effective at 147 either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onoI don't think Mayweather is naturally smaller than Hatton. I think Mayweather started off in the lower weights mainly because he was under-nourished. Over the years he's filled out and gained sized without a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
People make the mistake of thinking Hatton is huge, because of how much he weighs in between fights. The reality is, he only adds fat. He doesn't have to lose muscle mass to reach 140. That's why he loses weight quite easily.
Hatton doesn't have the core strength to compete at 147. Core strength is very important. Mayweather obviously does.
Cotto would crush Hatton at 147. Hatton would be too much at 140 (even if they fought 2 years ago).
That's rediculous that MAyweather fought at lower weights because he was undernourished... He fought at lower weights after making millions. He isn't like DLH who has a really big frame, look how muscular Mayweather is now, he had to add on a lot of weight to get up here. Hatton weighed 160 when he fought Collazo on fight night, and thats how much Mayweather weighs inbetween fights. Obviously Hatton doesn't stay in the best shape inbetween fights, but he is thicker than MAyweather, and naturally a stouter, stronger guy.
Your making bad excuses... Hatton never was a huge puncher, he wouldn't have to be if he still had good stamina, used his skills more. THere have been other successful pressure fighers who didn't hit really hard. Hatton just needed to utilize his speed more, and the biggest problem he had with Collazo, except him being southpaw, and MAyweather is that they were quick enough to counter him in no man's land whereas everyone else he fought didn't have the speed to make Hatton pay for his mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoYou don't understand how important that 7lbs is. He struggled with Collazo because Hatton's core strength was nowhere near what Collazo's was. That's why he couldn't push him back so easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
The guy won a world title at the weight - he cant be that bad.
Sick and tired of endless pro and anti hatton fans claiming the 7pounds makes the world of difference.
Of course slight adjustments have to be made - but its 7pounds not 77!!
Hate to admit it but the reason ricky dominates at 140 yet struggles at 147 is because the 2 guys he fought at 147 are much better fighters than those in LW (barring tszyu)
Core strength is so important. Unfortunately it can take a few years to build the required core strength to be effective at a weight. Ricky only had 7 weeks and thats why he struggled.
He doesn't have the reach or punching power to be effective at 147 either.
Same thing to a smaller degree with Hopkins vs Calzaghe, while Hopkins was fresher he was able to catch Calzaghe in situations where nobody else was able to, and Roy JOnes Jr would have been able to as well.
AS for Cotto I am saying that the style matchup is absolutely horrible for Hatton, not that Cotto is way better even though he sort of is.
I'm so sick of hearing this weight excuse for Hatton.
Floyd would beat Hatton at any weight and any time in his career.
FLAT OUT Floyd was better at 130, 135 and 140 than he has been at 147. Floyd was nearly un hittable at the lower weights. Watch Floyd at lighter weights and you'll quickly realize he would've embarrassed Ricky at any weight. As soon as he moved to 147 I thought he was getting hit with way more solid shots by far than at any time so far. Thats why its a big chance Floyd took moving up in weight. He is a natural 140 lber IMO. He is so slick at that weight its not even human.
Which of Cotto's fights at 140 make anyone think Hatton wouldn't get brutally KOed by Miguel? Which one? Miguel is a natural 140 lber IMO also. Do any of Ricky's fans really want to see Hatton taking clean shots from Cotto even at 140?
Hatton is what he is. He got exposed by a much superior fighter in Mayweather. That doesn't mean he is a chump, just that he isn't an all time great. He got beat, deal with it. First it was the ref, now its the weight in the future when he loses there'll be other excuses.
Hatton is still a big draw, he's bound to fight some other top competition.
I don't think anybody is making excuses. We were just pretty much stating that Hatton isn't world class at 147. And there are obviously multiple reasons for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethYour making bad excuses... Hatton never was a huge puncher, he wouldn't have to be if he still had good stamina, used his skills more. THere have been other successful pressure fighers who didn't hit really hard. Hatton just needed to utilize his speed more, and the biggest problem he had with Collazo, except him being southpaw, and MAyweather is that they were quick enough to counter him in no man's land whereas everyone else he fought didn't have the speed to make Hatton pay for his mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoYou don't understand how important that 7lbs is. He struggled with Collazo because Hatton's core strength was nowhere near what Collazo's was. That's why he couldn't push him back so easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Core strength is so important. Unfortunately it can take a few years to build the required core strength to be effective at a weight. Ricky only had 7 weeks and thats why he struggled.
He doesn't have the reach or punching power to be effective at 147 either.
Same thing to a smaller degree with Hopkins vs Calzaghe, while Hopkins was fresher he was able to catch Calzaghe in situations where nobody else was able to, and Roy JOnes Jr would have been able to as well.
AS for Cotto I am saying that the style matchup is absolutely horrible for Hatton, not that Cotto is way better even though he sort of is.
Ricky relies on physical strength and power. Floyd relies on speed and skill. Because of his style, and because he's so good with that style, Floyd can fight naturally bigger men. You're correct, Ricky is naturally stronger and stouter, but Floyd has decent reach, even at WW. Ricky has bad reach even for a LWW.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by onoI don't think Mayweather is naturally smaller than Hatton. I think Mayweather started off in the lower weights mainly because he was under-nourished. Over the years he's filled out and gained sized without a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
People make the mistake of thinking Hatton is huge, because of how much he weighs in between fights. The reality is, he only adds fat. He doesn't have to lose muscle mass to reach 140. That's why he loses weight quite easily.
Hatton doesn't have the core strength to compete at 147. Core strength is very important. Mayweather obviously does.
Cotto would crush Hatton at 147. Hatton would be too much at 140 (even if they fought 2 years ago).
That's rediculous that MAyweather fought at lower weights because he was undernourished... He fought at lower weights after making millions. He isn't like DLH who has a really big frame, look how muscular Mayweather is now, he had to add on a lot of weight to get up here. Hatton weighed 160 when he fought Collazo on fight night, and thats how much Mayweather weighs inbetween fights. Obviously Hatton doesn't stay in the best shape inbetween fights, but he is thicker than MAyweather, and naturally a stouter, stronger guy.
That was a silly statement the Mayweather was undernourished. Where did that come from?
Heard it quoted quite a few times. Even by his uncle once.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanRicky relies on physical strength and power. Floyd relies on speed and skill. Because of his style, and because he's so good with that style, Floyd can fight naturally bigger men. You're correct, Ricky is naturally stronger and stouter, but Floyd has decent reach, even at WW. Ricky has bad reach even for a LWW.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
That's rediculous that MAyweather fought at lower weights because he was undernourished... He fought at lower weights after making millions. He isn't like DLH who has a really big frame, look how muscular Mayweather is now, he had to add on a lot of weight to get up here. Hatton weighed 160 when he fought Collazo on fight night, and thats how much Mayweather weighs inbetween fights. Obviously Hatton doesn't stay in the best shape inbetween fights, but he is thicker than MAyweather, and naturally a stouter, stronger guy.
That was a silly statement the Mayweather was undernourished. Where did that come from?
And to be honest i agree.
Look at his reach for example. Like you said, even at 147 he has a decent reach. Don't know that many natural 130lb fighters with that sort of reach. He's filled out no problem and walks round at 155 very comfortably. He hasn't exactly added loads of muscle mass.
Under-nourished doesn't mean he was some starving euthiopian kid. It just means he didn't consume enough calories (or his metabalism allowed him to burn them off so quickly) to reach his genetically determined weight.....untill he got a bit older.
Another example is Manny Pacquiao.
Obviously Mayweather's style has also helped him move up the weights without much problems also.