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Undefeated
11 year reigning champion
Lineal Universally recognized Undisputed SuperMiddleweight Champion
Lineal Universally recognized Undisputed Light Heavyweight Champion
2nd best SuperMiddleweight of All Time
To me dwarfs anything Pac has done.....
Calzaghe PFP#1
To me, Pacquiao has defeated the better p4p fighters. But that's just my opinion. Calzaghe's best opponents, IMO, are Jeff Lacy and Kessler. His slim margin victory over an over-the-hill Hopkins doesn't hold much water with me.
JT I really don't wanna get into a massive debate but although you won't like me saying this (Especially regarding Jeff Lacy) he shouldn't be p4p number 1. He fought a past his prime Chris Eubank with Eubank taking 2 weeks notice, he was lucky to get the verdict against Reid. Fought a host of bums i.e. Manfredo (Sorry POB), Salem, Sheika etc (Hence why he has an undefeated record). An overhyped one-dimensional Jeff Lacy who really isn't what the Media suggested. And controversially beating a 43 yr old grandad in Bernard Hopkins on a SD while getting floored in the process. The only worthy name I give him is Kessler (Who he beat in his own backyard). Pacquiao has beaten 3 greats in Morales, Barrera and Marquez. Those 3 names are much bigger than anything on Calzaghe's record. If Pacquiao beats Diaz WITHOUT DOUBT he is bigger that JC but ATM he is still higher than JC IMO.
PS: I ain't a Calzaghe hater BTW but no way should he be number 1.
For me it has to be Pacquiao. He's fought, and beat, a better level of competition over a longer period of time and he's been willing to leave his country to do it. It's not even close IMO.
I couldn't agree more, have some rep.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Now that Floyd is retired the p4p title is vacant and there must be a fight between PAC and Calzaghe to determine the new champ.
I kid I kid.
PAC is still rightfully above Calzaghe, Pac has won titles in more weightclasses and against the better competition. Also does this mean that the winner of Margarito / Cotto will be the #1 WW?
Pac beat Barrera when he had an abbreviated camp and the 2nd fight Marco was shell of himself and a faded Morales 2x.. He was consistently getting beat to the punch by JMM in there 1st fight after the Knockdowns and in there 2nd fight he got a decision that was more questionable than the Hopkins/ Calzaghe fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
So as much as I liked Lennox but similiar to Pac, his wins against Holyfield and Tyson mean little to me because both guys were both shot to pieces... Just great names
So far it's 3-1 for Pacquiao. Be interesting to make a poll out of it.
Calzaghe is promoted by Sports Network, that says it all. They badly overhype there fighters and the majority of the time put them in with fighters there certain to beat, look at Khan's, Mitchell's, Maccarinelli (Excluding Haye), Smith's record etc
4-1
;d
Again he is undefeated and Lineal undisputed champion of 2 divisions, with no one close to making a claim in either division.... as lwell as being a champ since you been 5 Lefty;D
I knew age would come into this :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Undefeated maybe, but he has fought ONE serious threat, Kessler. Beating Mikkel Kessler doesn't make you number 1 P4P.
See JT, your the only one Calzaghe thinks should be higher ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
To me ;D...
Pac is the number 1 P4P.. Pac already jumped 7 Divisions where he started.. He became the Linear Champ at 112,126 and 130..
He is a 4 Division Champ and going to become a 5 Division Champ this month
WBC 112 Champ
IBF 122 Champ
Ring 126 Champ
WBC 130 Champ
and WBC 135 Champ (in about 3 weeks from now :))
He knock Morales out twice and he knock Barrera in 2003.. KNOCKOUT!.. Pac beat Marquez although it was close, Pac Knock down Marquez 4 times!
Joe Beat Kessler (Decision not a blowout)
He beat a 43 year old Hopkins by a SPLIT DECISION Only.. Which a lot of Press in the Frontrow had Hopkins winning.. Not only that JOE GOT KNOCKDOWN by a 44 year old man.. Pac is rated number 2 by the Ring and majority of all the people.. Joe was kept and hide in his country to keep his record perfect..
Plus!... He just slaps as seen here...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../hopcalz-1.gif
Lucky B-hop was receiving a relaxing massage from Joe. ;D
.
I wasnt goofing your age I was helping you appreciate his longevity... Again Joe has had a great career... The Lacy Talk is all your opinion, Lacy was recognized #2 SM in the world regardless of Hype... Calzaghe has beaten everybody that was put in front of him, not to mention most were picking Hopkins over Calzaghe, so its easy to throw the age of Hopkins into it but he beat him and took his goods... Again everyone likes to kiss Pacs ass but no one brings to the equation how Shopworn Morales and Barrera were..Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeI knew age would come into this :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Undefeated maybe, but he has fought ONE serious threat, Kessler. Beating Mikkel Kessler doesn't make you number 1 P4P.
How many Prime superstars has Pac fault, besides JMM the 1st time in which he squeaked a BS draw?
Yea I know, 4-1 on a world wide forum lets just bang the gavel now:rolleyes:;DQuote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeSee JT, your the only one Calzaghe thinks should be higher ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I see where you're coming from, but it's as easy to criticize Calzaghe's level of comp. Eubank was old, Lacy was Lacy, and Hopkins was very old and a case could be made that Calzaghe lost the B-Hop fight. Kessler was a very good win, but I still think JC's record pales in comparison to Pac's, and I JC a lot more than I like Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPac beat Barrera when he had an abbreviated camp and the 2nd fight Marco was shell of himself and a faded Morales 2x.. He was consistently getting beat to the punch by JMM in there 1st fight after the Knockdowns and in there 2nd fight he got a decision that was more questionable than the Hopkins/ Calzaghe fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
So as much as I liked Lennox but similiar to Pac, his wins against Holyfield and Tyson mean little to me because both guys were both shot to pieces... Just great names
I admit that video is funny as fuk;D but you gotta love Sneaky Hopkins laying the headbutt in there:pQuote:
Originally Posted by AJ Banal
This is turning into a "no he's not, yes he is" type debate let's just all agree that JT's wrong and move on. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockYea I know, 4-1 on a world wide forum lets just bang the gavel now:rolleyes:;DQuote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeSee JT, your the only one Calzaghe thinks should be higher ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Lets turn that question around, how many prime superstars (besides Kessler) has Calzaghe fought ?? (Please don't say Sakio Bika is a superstar coz he won The Contender).Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI wasnt goofing your age I was helping you appreciate his longevity... Again Joe has had a great career... The Lacy Talk is all your opinion, Lacy was recognized #2 SM in the world regardless of Hype... Calzaghe has beaten everybody that was put in front of him, not to mention most were picking Hopkins over Calzaghe, so its easy to throw the age of Hopkins into it but he beat him and took his goods... Again everyone likes to kiss Pacs ass but no one brings to the equation how Shopworn Morales and Barrera were..Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeI knew age would come into this :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Undefeated maybe, but he has fought ONE serious threat, Kessler. Beating Mikkel Kessler doesn't make you number 1 P4P.
How many Prime superstars has Pac fault, besides JMM the 1st time in which he squeaked a BS draw?
BS draw ?? if it weren't for one bullshit judge Pac would have got the verdict in the first fight.
Having Calzaghe P4P #1 is almost embarrasing as a fan. The guy slaps like a lil girl, this is boxing were you punch.
Hopkins' vaunted headbutt-right hook combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI admit that video is funny as fuk;D but you gotta love Sneaky Hopkins laying the headbutt in there:pQuote:
Originally Posted by AJ Banal
:lol: :lolhaha: :biglaugh::lolololol: :LMAO::rofmaoal:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI see where you're coming from, but it's as easy to criticize Calzaghe's level of comp. Eubank was old, Lacy was Lacy, and Hopkins was very old and a case could be made that Calzaghe lost the B-Hop fight. Kessler was a very good win, but I still think JC's record pales in comparison to Pac's, and I JC a lot more than I like Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockPac beat Barrera when he had an abbreviated camp and the 2nd fight Marco was shell of himself and a faded Morales 2x.. He was consistently getting beat to the punch by JMM in there 1st fight after the Knockdowns and in there 2nd fight he got a decision that was more questionable than the Hopkins/ Calzaghe fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
So as much as I liked Lennox but similiar to Pac, his wins against Holyfield and Tyson mean little to me because both guys were both shot to pieces... Just great names
Dont get me started on Hattons resume now:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee:lol: :lolhaha: :biglaugh::lolololol: :LMAO::rofmaoal:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI see where you're coming from, but it's as easy to criticize Calzaghe's level of comp. Eubank was old, Lacy was Lacy, and Hopkins was very old and a case could be made that Calzaghe lost the B-Hop fight. Kessler was a very good win, but I still think JC's record pales in comparison to Pac's, and I JC a lot more than I like Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I think I hurt JT's feelings :LOLATYOU:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockDont Tget me started on Hattons resume now:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee:lol: :lolhaha: :biglaugh::lolololol: :LMAO::rofmaoal:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I think Calzaghe's and Hatton's records are comparable. Calzaghe's is obviously better because he's a champ, and an undisputed one at that, for longer, but some parallels could be drawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockDont get me started on Hattons resume now:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee:lol: :lolhaha: :biglaugh::lolololol: :LMAO::rofmaoal:Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I love this thread.
It's like 2 hyenas battling on Floyd's carcasses. ;D
I wouldn't even get too excited about it. Cuz I have the feeling that this Floyd's retirement thing is just his way of promoting his next fight. He's the drama king.
No way Jose...I always have these immortal images to cheer me upQuote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeI think I hurt JT's feelings :LOLATYOU:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockDont Tget me started on Hattons resume now:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...Rickyowned.gif
Yep much better now;D
Exactly. Smart posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Banal
It all depends on what you look for when rating fighters, Pacquiao clearly has beaten the better fighters and has moved up and won titles at multiple weight classes. But Calzaghe has dominated a lot longer than Pacquiao but at a weaker weight class, i feel Pacquiao doesn't get enough credit for some of his wins against Barrera, Morales, and ditto for Calzaghe as well.
A lot of things come into play when rating a certain fighter above another, do you feel Calzaghe would beat Pacquiao P4P, do you like longevity better than better quality wins ?? is Calzaghe dominating 1 weight class better than Pacquiao skipping through the divisions winning titles at multiple weight classes ?? its all debatable and it depends on what the boxing fan looks for.
I'm a Calzaghe fan, but I give Manny the edge due to his superior competition. That doesn't mean to say that Lefty's arguments aren't pretty pathetic, you can take apart any guys record when you start dismissing opponents, it would be easy to claim out of the three mexicans Manny beat, the only one who was remotely near his best at the time was Morales in their first fight, but such a claim wouldn't be remotely true and just plain disrespectful to a future legend in Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeLets turn that question around, how many prime superstars (besides Kessler) has Calzaghe fought ?? (Please don't say Sakio Bika is a superstar coz he won The Contender).Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI wasnt goofing your age I was helping you appreciate his longevity... Again Joe has had a great career... The Lacy Talk is all your opinion, Lacy was recognized #2 SM in the world regardless of Hype... Calzaghe has beaten everybody that was put in front of him, not to mention most were picking Hopkins over Calzaghe, so its easy to throw the age of Hopkins into it but he beat him and took his goods... Again everyone likes to kiss Pacs ass but no one brings to the equation how Shopworn Morales and Barrera were..Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
How many Prime superstars has Pac fault, besides JMM the 1st time in which he squeaked a BS draw?
BS draw ?? if it weren't for one bullshit judge Pac would have got the verdict in the first fight.
Having Calzaghe P4P #1 is almost embarrasing as a fan. The guy slaps like a lil girl, this is boxing were you punch.
BTW you left out THE no.1 UNDISPUTED padded record of sports network and that's your boy Hatton.
Put me on the Pacman express also. I like Calzaghe and respect what he has done, but with my limited boxing history knowledge, and just viewing it from a fighter point of view, pacman gives you a lot of excitement in the ring.
Chalk me up for the pacman.
Pavlik should beQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I have to agree all the way. Then again I am a Joe Calzaghe fan so I am a bit impartial.
Second would be Manny Pacquiao I would have to say. Right now I guess it depends on who is making the list.
Pacman travels and wins. He beats p4p greats in great fashion. He is number 1. Cotto to me is number two. Calzaghe is tied for thrid with Pavlik.
Simple as this, pac was not the beter fighter/boxer in his last fight, so thee is no fucking way he is the p4p #1 full stop.
people have liked him coz he is good to watch, period.
1. Pacquiao
2. Calzaghe
3. JM Marquez
4. Cotto
For me, it's PAC coz with PBF out, you just have to move all the boxers in the P4P rankings one step higher... So PAC no. 1 and Joe in no. 2 and so on...
..... http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5033/pac1pe2.jpg .....
Question now, who will barge into no. 10 spot???
.
I like to think of being the best p4p as purely that, rather than what a fighter's resume looks like, or who's is easier to pick apart or slant yada yada. For me I think Jm Marquez and Cotto, along with Pac, are all BETTER fighters than Calzaghe. My top five was
1.Mayweather
2/3.Marquez/Pacquiao, rank them either way so little to seperate them..
4.Cotto.
5.Calzaghe
6. Joan Guzman( I read someone who posted he could be their number 2 if it were based purely on talent, I'm tempted to agree the more I watch him).
P4p lists are always a pain in the ass for me, because I like to chalk it up as the best fighters, aside from who has the greater resume, wheras most seem to favour the opposite way of thinking. Now obviously you aren't going to find fighters who arent that good yet beat great fighters, however simply because a certain fighter doesnt have multiple greats in his W column, doesn't mean they dont have more ability than some who do.
I think P4P is based a lot of talent in which case, I can't make Calzaghe number 1. That would be saying he's the most talented fighter in the world essentially, and that's just not true. I think he's very beatable and Hopkins pretty much proved that. It's not like his record jumps out either I mean he has 3 really good wins and a ton of fights that ranged from meaning little to being somewhat impressive.
I would go so far that if Cotto were to beat Margarito convincingly, that I would put Pac at 1 and Cotto at 2. Cotto's resume is pretty much just as good as Calzaghe's imo.
Calzaghe wasnt the better fighter/boxer in his last fight either , he was just busier , cos Hopkins was 43 years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme