The All time Heavyweight thread ( a different perspective)

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

Lewis and Tyson would be the last 2 men standing. But I think Lewis beats Tyson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

No peak Holyfield ??Yes the timing and points in career's were askew...but the man beat 4 of the 6 mentioned....I know,Holmes was not prime and Bowe took 2 of 3 :-X.

No Marciano :o........Lyle's going to be furious...;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

No peak Holyfield ??Yes the timing and points in career's were askew...but the man beat 4 of the 6 mentioned....I know,Holmes was not prime and Bowe took 2 of 3 :-X.

No Marciano :o........Lyle's going to be furious...;D

---

Yeh can't really argue with Holyfield, although he did lose to Bowe when they were both prime, so that kinda goes against him

Very good point about Riddick Bowe. Greatest and best are 2 completely different things. Bowe on his best night (the first holyfield fight) would stand a very good chance against absolutely everybody in history. Someone like Patterson, for example, was a far greater champion than Bowe, but Bowe could leave both arms and one leg at home and still beat him

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenneth B

Very good point about Riddick Bowe. Greatest and best are 2 completely different things. Bowe on his best night (the first holyfield fight) would stand a very good chance against absolutely everybody in history. Someone like Patterson, for example, was a far greater champion than Bowe, but Bowe could leave both arms and one leg at home and still beat him

---

Mate that could've come from my own mouth, spot on assesment!!

Lennox Lewis though not undefeated has beaten all of his opponents(avenged loses) and cleaned his division. Has a power close to that of Big George and a skill like that of the greatest. I would say Lennox Lewis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenneth B

Very good point about Riddick Bowe. Greatest and best are 2 completely different things. Bowe on his best night (the first holyfield fight) would stand a very good chance against absolutely everybody in history. Someone like Patterson, for example, was a far greater champion than Bowe, but Bowe could leave both arms and one leg at home and still beat him

---

Mate that could've come from my own mouth, spot on assesment!!

---

All of which serves to point out the fact that Bowe was one of the biggest underachievers (did the least with the most) in the history of the HW division.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

If you wanted to go at their absolute best night during their peak?

I would have to go for Lennox Lewis. (You did say it did not mean they were the greatest heavyweight I hope I read that right).

Lennox Lewis was the most consistent against top level names. He during his reign fought top ranked contender after top ranked contender. From 1995 until his retirement he did not fight a single opponent not ranked in the top 8. Very impressive. I actually do not think there was another heavyweight champion in the gloved era to hold the title for more then 3 defenses to do so. It is that consistent ability to win against those opponents that I pick him.

Even in his 1 loss during that time he fought the rematch immediately and reclaimed his title.

On a side note I rank my all time heavyweight list as

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Lennox Lewis
Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Jack Dempsey
Mike Tyson



Even in his 1 loss during that time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

No peak Holyfield ??Yes the timing and points in career's were askew...but the man beat 4 of the 6 mentioned....I know,Holmes was not prime and Bowe took 2 of 3 :-X.

No Marciano :o........Lyle's going to be furious...;D

---

Yeh can't really argue with Holyfield, although he did lose to Bowe when they were both prime, so that kinda goes against him

---

I hear you Big H...Bowe was at the peak form that night.That fight really took slot out of each that night,by the 2nd round Holyfield through the game plan out the window and started swapping bombs.Bowe at times in career was his own worst enemy with Motivation and consistency problems But he really shined with jab and his underrated ,Imo, inside fighting skills that night...kept his cool.

Based on level of competition,overall achievements,skill set and the fact that he came back from that classic war to conquer Tyson (when some in the media openly expressed concern for his physical well being lol) twice,Debatabley lost to Lewis in rematch after that terrible blind man's call in "Draw" and beating prime Mercer,Rematch beating of Moorer,etc. he is defiantly amongst my top ten Heavys....I'd put him over Tyson & Foreman.He has undoubtedly stayed around way to long and runs the risk of Blurring his achievements with Ugly losses to Donald,being taken apart by Toney and grasping onto memories and stubborn ...borderline delusional belief that he still has it .

Its a complex question that would have many different outcomes if it was put into practice.

For instance i always suggested lewis would probably be able to keep ali at bay with his jab for 12 rounds.

On the flip side joe frazier would probably be able to force lennox into an old fashioned tear up and beat him, but we all know who would win out of ali/frazier!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

1 Muhammad Ali
2 Larry Holmes
3 George Foreman
4 Lennox Lewis
5 Riddick Bowe
6 Mike Tyson
7 Joe Louis
8 Joe Frazier

Just done a quick list thats how i see it and im taking into account, the size difference thats why Louis is lower on my list.

Last man standing is a peak Tyson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

No peak Holyfield ??Yes the timing and points in career's were askew...but the man beat 4 of the 6 mentioned....I know,Holmes was not prime and Bowe took 2 of 3 :-X.

No Marciano :o........Lyle's going to be furious...;D

---

No way i would put Holyfield in my list as much as i respect him, a 42 year old Holmes almost beat a prime Holyfield. Holmes come on very strong in the later rounds and took 5 rounds out of 12 IMO, a prime Holmes out points Holyfield no question. Holyfield was far too brave for his own good, and thats why he was badly hurt and wobbled by lesser fighters like Cooper, Dokes, Stewart, instead of using his boxing skills which he did have as he showed in the 2nd fight with Bowe. Holyfield is one of my favorites but he doesn't make my list.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

If you put the 'Greatest' Heavyweights of all time together to each fight each other on their very best night, who would win. This is not a question about who is the Greatest, who fought the best opposition etc etc, it's about a one on one fight!!

Lewis, Tyson, Holmes,Foreman & Ali would be my main pics (not in order) Initially I did not put Ali in, but he beat 'Big' George, so how can you discount him :-\

I would also put Riddick Bowe in there (even though he would not be on my 'Greatest' list)

---

No peak Holyfield ??Yes the timing and points in career's were askew...but the man beat 4 of the 6 mentioned....I know,Holmes was not prime and Bowe took 2 of 3 :-X.

No Marciano :o........Lyle's going to be furious...;D

---

No way i would put Holyfield in my list as much as i respect him, a 42 year old Holmes almost beat a prime Holyfield. Holmes come on very strong in the later rounds and took 5 rounds out of 12 IMO, a prime Holmes out points Holyfield no question. Holyfield was far too brave for his own good, and thats why he was badly hurt and wobbled by lesser fighters like Cooper, Dokes, Stewart, instead of using his boxing skills which he did have as he showed in the 2nd fight with Bowe. Holyfield is one of my favorites but he doesn't make my list.

---

Well I actually agree that a prime Holmes would outpoint Holyfield but since when has being brave been criteria to be held against a fighter.He backseated his skills and wore his heart on his sleeves...Now if He was carted off and the resulting almost's actually became a certainy in defeat than I could see what your saying about reasons not to recognize him as all time.Holmes in his comeback could have and did cause problems for some top guys,you know that.Not pretty from Holyfield and the cut was a huge factor & he dealt with Holmes.It may surprise ya but I only had that a 3 point fight for Holyfield. He was stunned by cooper and Stewart in the 1st fight because both were quality punchers in good condition at the times...I have always said that Holyfield with Cooper was the most Holyfield has ever been hurt as a professional Imo.No excuses because of last minute replacements,hometown let down etc.In know way can I hold any minute of the Dokes fight aginst him,That was a war of attrition with a revitalized fast handed capable Dokes in only Holyfields 3rd fight as Heavyweight and he came through in explosive fashion.Sometimes his Temper and pride got the best of him (Bowe I Imo) but his skills were as solid as they come.I hear what you are saying but by no means was he a clueless sell out brawler who ignored his boxing skillset...both were used in conjunction with mass heart to make him what he was.A great..to each his own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

No peak Holyfield ??Yes the timing and points in career's were askew...but the man beat 4 of the 6 mentioned....I know,Holmes was not prime and Bowe took 2 of 3 :-X.

No Marciano :o........Lyle's going to be furious...;D

---

No way i would put Holyfield in my list as much as i respect him, a 42 year old Holmes almost beat a prime Holyfield. Holmes come on very strong in the later rounds and took 5 rounds out of 12 IMO, a prime Holmes out points Holyfield no question. Holyfield was far too brave for his own good, and thats why he was badly hurt and wobbled by lesser fighters like Cooper, Dokes, Stewart, instead of using his boxing skills which he did have as he showed in the 2nd fight with Bowe. Holyfield is one of my favorites but he doesn't make my list.

---

Well I actually agree that a prime Holmes would outpoint Holyfield but since when has being brave been criteria to be held against a fighter.He backseated his skills and wore his heart on his sleeves...Now if He was carted off and the resulting almost's actually became a certainy in defeat than I could see what your saying about reasons not to recognize him as all time.Holmes in his comeback could have and did cause problems for some top guys,you know that.Not pretty from Holyfield and the cut was a huge factor & he dealt with Holmes.It may surprise ya but I only had that a 3 point fight for Holyfield. He was stunned by cooper and Stewart in the 1st fight because both were quality punchers in good condition at the times...I have always said that Holyfield with Cooper was the most Holyfield has ever been hurt as a professional Imo.No excuses because of last minute replacements,hometown let down etc.In know way can I hold any minute of the Dokes fight aginst him,That was a war of attrition with a revitalized fast handed capable Dokes in only Holyfields 3rd fight as Heavyweight and he came through in explosive fashion.Sometimes his Temper and pride got the best of him (Bowe I Imo) but his skills were as solid as they come.I hear what you are saying but by no means was he a clueless sell out brawler who ignored his boxing skillset...both were used in conjunction with mass heart to make him what he was.A great..to each his own.

---

I actually replied to this 3 times but my computer is messing up so it didn't go through, so i'll have to reply in a few days im really busy at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

No way i would put Holyfield in my list as much as i respect him, a 42 year old Holmes almost beat a prime Holyfield. Holmes come on very strong in the later rounds and took 5 rounds out of 12 IMO, a prime Holmes out points Holyfield no question. Holyfield was far too brave for his own good, and thats why he was badly hurt and wobbled by lesser fighters like Cooper, Dokes, Stewart, instead of using his boxing skills which he did have as he showed in the 2nd fight with Bowe. Holyfield is one of my favorites but he doesn't make my list.

---

Well I actually agree that a prime Holmes would outpoint Holyfield but since when has being brave been criteria to be held against a fighter.He backseated his skills and wore his heart on his sleeves...Now if He was carted off and the resulting almost's actually became a certainy in defeat than I could see what your saying about reasons not to recognize him as all time.Holmes in his comeback could have and did cause problems for some top guys,you know that.Not pretty from Holyfield and the cut was a huge factor & he dealt with Holmes.It may surprise ya but I only had that a 3 point fight for Holyfield. He was stunned by cooper and Stewart in the 1st fight because both were quality punchers in good condition at the times...I have always said that Holyfield with Cooper was the most Holyfield has ever been hurt as a professional Imo.No excuses because of last minute replacements,hometown let down etc.In know way can I hold any minute of the Dokes fight aginst him,That was a war of attrition with a revitalized fast handed capable Dokes in only Holyfields 3rd fight as Heavyweight and he came through in explosive fashion.Sometimes his Temper and pride got the best of him (Bowe I Imo) but his skills were as solid as they come.I hear what you are saying but by no means was he a clueless sell out brawler who ignored his boxing skillset...both were used in conjunction with mass heart to make him what he was.A great..to each his own.

---

I actually replied to this 3 times but my computer is messing up so it didn't go through, so i'll have to reply in a few days im really busy at the moment.

---

umm..ok...:-X...;D Hope all is well?

Interesting take...Holyfield is a tough one. What was his best night? He has always seemed inconsistent to me. Was Moorer 1 really just b/c of the heart? In that case was the rematch his best night? Was Bowe being heavier in the second fight the most telling factor? I will say that I was screaming at the TV when Evander abondoned boxing in the first Bowe fight and started trying to slug. He really wanted to be a ko artist at HW and I think he put on muscle he didn't need which probably had alot to do with his stamina issue. Its hard to say what was the best night for some of the older generation (Johnson/Louis) and then there is the size issue (Marciano/Dempsey). I have often said that the Bowe that won the belt was one of the finest HWs I've ever seen. He much like Tyson had his emotional/mental issues to blame for his demise more than anything. I think Foremans destruction of Frazier can be said to be his best night. I personally would take him over Lewis. I think he could force Lennox out of his technical skill set and win a slugfest. I personally feel that top Evander and Lennox would beat any version of Tyson. So I think it comes down to most complete and adapatable. So call me cliche but I'm still taking Ali on his best night against the field.

Said it before, i'll say it again...for me its Mike Tyson! i know most dont agree and i accept that but for me his sheer blend of skill, speed and power, aswell as a underated defence at his best makes him unstoppable!

Holyfield should be very high on the list. Someone said they didn´t rate him highly because of who almost beat him. That´s exactly the point! Holyfield was the ultimate warrior..."almost beat" translates to Holyfield digging deep and coming back to win. "Almost" shouldn´t be a factor, as long as Holyfield won. That´s why Marciano is the hero he is...Because of hardfought wins. Just look at the record. Fought Bowe 3 times, Moorer twice, Tyson twice, Stewart twice, Foreman, Holmes, Mercer, Dokes, Ruiz 3 times (everyone scoffs at Ruiz but Ruiz has made a career out of beating people he should not be able to beat, ugly or not). Holyfield knocked down Bowe who had never been down, Tyson who had only been down once, Mercer who had never been down. Holyfield on his best night (probably the first Tyson fight) was no joke and would probably be even money with the prime Tyson (Tyson was a bit past it when they fought, but not a lot)

And fought Lewis twice also, how could I forget that. And did very well in spite of being 37 years old and much smaller and Lewis being right in his prime

This is a good thread:

The Tyson that fought Spinks - an electrifying a performer as ever stepped into a boxing ring.

The Ali that fought Cleveland Williams - absolute grace under pressure and a devastating display.

The Louis that fought Schemeling - I'm not sure any fighter in history could have lived with Louis that night.

The Marciano that fought Walcott (first time) - you could have hit the Rock with the kitchen sink that night and he was going to walk right through it.

The Liston that fought Wayne Bethea - a monstrous performance

The Foreman that fought Frazier - power, power, power, power and size.

I'd say that Marciano and one of the Kltichsko's would duke it out in the end, with Marciano taking the victory.

If Britkid was here he would tell you that the Buster Douglas that beat Tyson should be on the list. I hope it was Britkid, actually it was I remember pretty clearly.

I think the Ali that beat Ernie Terrell or Cleveland Williams is pretty much unmatched. I don't know if anyone in heavyweight history hits him much less beats him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Well I actually agree that a prime Holmes would outpoint Holyfield but since when has being brave been criteria to be held against a fighter.He backseated his skills and wore his heart on his sleeves...Now if He was carted off and the resulting almost's actually became a certainy in defeat than I could see what your saying about reasons not to recognize him as all time.Holmes in his comeback could have and did cause problems for some top guys,you know that.Not pretty from Holyfield and the cut was a huge factor & he dealt with Holmes.It may surprise ya but I only had that a 3 point fight for Holyfield. He was stunned by cooper and Stewart in the 1st fight because both were quality punchers in good condition at the times...I have always said that Holyfield with Cooper was the most Holyfield has ever been hurt as a professional Imo.No excuses because of last minute replacements,hometown let down etc.In know way can I hold any minute of the Dokes fight aginst him,That was a war of attrition with a revitalized fast handed capable Dokes in only Holyfields 3rd fight as Heavyweight and he came through in explosive fashion.Sometimes his Temper and pride got the best of him (Bowe I Imo) but his skills were as solid as they come.I hear what you are saying but by no means was he a clueless sell out brawler who ignored his boxing skillset...both were used in conjunction with mass heart to make him what he was.A great..to each his own.

---

I actually replied to this 3 times but my computer is messing up so it didn't go through, so i'll have to reply in a few days im really busy at the moment.

---

umm..ok...:-X...;D Hope all is well?

---

Ok now i have time to reply to this i think you got the wrong end of the stick, i never said Holyfield being an extremely brave fighter was a bad thing, but if you look at it in another way it was. It caused him being shook up much more than he should of been, plus it cost him badly in the 1st Bowe fight, Holyfield being too brave for his own good is good for the fans watching excitement wise. But health wise and fighting against big punchers or bigger men its the wrong thing to do. I mean really and truthfully he could have counter punched Cooper, Stewart, Dokes, heads off if he used his surperior boxing skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

I actually replied to this 3 times but my computer is messing up so it didn't go through, so i'll have to reply in a few days im really busy at the moment.

---

umm..ok...:-X...;D Hope all is well?

---

Ok now i have time to reply to this i think you got the wrong end of the stick, i never said Holyfield being an extremely brave fighter was a bad thing, but if you look at it in another way it was. It caused him being shook up much more than he should of been, plus it cost him badly in the 1st Bowe fight, Holyfield being too brave for his own good is good for the fans watching excitement wise. But health wise and fighting against big punchers or bigger men its the wrong thing to do. I mean really and truthfully he could have counter punched Cooper, Stewart, Dokes, heads off if he used his surperior boxing skills.

---

I hear ya bro...Glad to see you back ICB.If The man would have tried to fight like 100% of what he was not...he would not be Evander.His counter punching remained strong but his heart & determination combined with skill made him who he was.Unfortuanatly it is at this moment what is hurting him the most right now Imo....He actually thinks he still can be what he once was....

Frazier is getting shafted in this debate.
He was a victim of circumstance
First he has that war with Ali,and if I was going to design a fighter to beat Joe Frazier,Id probably come up with George Foreman,I mean just perfect to beat Joe's style

True.

If Frazier were around during pretty much any other era he would be probably have retired undefeated and been a contender for the greatest of all time. I think Lewis, Tyson & Holmes would've beaten him, but not Louis, Marciano or Dempsey for example

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BIG H

True.

If Frazier were around during pretty much any other era he would be probably have retired undefeated and been a contender for the greatest of all time. I think Lewis, Tyson & Holmes would've beaten him, but not Louis, Marciano or Dempsey for example

---

Alot of people hold the Ali loss against big George,but George was a timing fighter. Timing his shots to were he thought you were coming,you couldnt time Ali.
Frazier on the other hand was built for him,he'd get in to a rhythm,as soon as George got that down,"DOWN GOES FRAZIER"
Joe was an incredible fighter,but he was custom built for big George,his corner had Joe scouted perfectly,and lets face it,when the big man caught you with one,you stayed caught.
That was the magic of the "Rope A Dope" almost none of those big shots land,and Foreman can never time him out. And then it quickly becomes quicksand for George,the harder he tries,the deeper he's sinking.Against Frazier all he needed to do was time the weave, and catch him

The more I reflect the more it strikes me -
His speed,
Movement,
Heart,
Ring Generalship,
Chin,
Stamina.


The way he laid out the Iron-Chinned Bona Vena.
The way he outclassed Patterson.
His attritional battle in 75
Withstanding all Shavers had
Destroying the Mongoose.

I don't even have to metion his name.....
When I posted of his unrivalled speed and movement you knew exactly who I was talking about.

George Foreman would win the whole thing...he had the chin, the power, and the style to deal with the majority of the fighters mentioned.


Sure George would have it tough vs the pure boxers but vs Bowe and Tyson he'd blow them out of the water. Bowe was a good boxer but left himself open to being hit OFTEN and twice in a row is all George would need.... Tyson would be scared shitless of Foreman and the style matchup really favors Foreman considering how easily he handled Frazier and say what you will about Tyson and his head movement but the majority of fighters he fought in his prime either didn't throw with the intent to hurt Tyson OR threw scared.....Foreman would have gone for blood the second the bell rang.


Rocky is hard to throw into this sort of tourney as he was not a true heavyweight...I think his accomplishments were great and he's a great fighter but vs guys who are 6'4 and taller and as heavy as 250 it's like Wlad Klitschko fighting Edison Miranda. Rocky was a great fighter, and I'd like his chances vs Tyson (more from a mental standpoint than a physical standpoint) but no one will listen to that arguement and it's for another thread anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

George Foreman would win the whole thing...he had the chin, the power, and the style to deal with the majority of the fighters mentioned.


Sure George would have it tough vs the pure boxers but vs Bowe and Tyson he'd blow them out of the water. Bowe was a good boxer but left himself open to being hit OFTEN and twice in a row is all George would need.... Tyson would be scared shitless of Foreman and the style matchup really favors Foreman considering how easily he handled Frazier and say what you will about Tyson and his head movement but the majority of fighters he fought in his prime either didn't throw with the intent to hurt Tyson OR threw scared.....Foreman would have gone for blood the second the bell rang.


Rocky is hard to throw into this sort of tourney as he was not a true heavyweight...I think his accomplishments were great and he's a great fighter but vs guys who are 6'4 and taller and as heavy as 250 it's like Wlad Klitschko fighting Edison Miranda. Rocky was a great fighter, and I'd like his chances vs Tyson (more from a mental standpoint than a physical standpoint) but no one will listen to that arguement and it's for another thread anyway

---

Just a demonstration of the objectivity of it all, but I reckon on their nights Johnson, Ali, Shavers and Lewis could beat George.

However on any given night George could beat Johnso, Shavers and Lewis,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

George Foreman would win the whole thing...he had the chin, the power, and the style to deal with the majority of the fighters mentioned.


Sure George would have it tough vs the pure boxers but vs Bowe and Tyson he'd blow them out of the water. Bowe was a good boxer but left himself open to being hit OFTEN and twice in a row is all George would need.... Tyson would be scared shitless of Foreman and the style matchup really favors Foreman considering how easily he handled Frazier and say what you will about Tyson and his head movement but the majority of fighters he fought in his prime either didn't throw with the intent to hurt Tyson OR threw scared.....Foreman would have gone for blood the second the bell rang.


Rocky is hard to throw into this sort of tourney as he was not a true heavyweight...I think his accomplishments were great and he's a great fighter but vs guys who are 6'4 and taller and as heavy as 250 it's like Wlad Klitschko fighting Edison Miranda. Rocky was a great fighter, and I'd like his chances vs Tyson (more from a mental standpoint than a physical standpoint) but no one will listen to that arguement and it's for another thread anyway

---

But Foreman lost to Ali, when he was arguable prime and Ali was arguably past his, so wouldn't that discount him from number 1 slot :-\

Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???


I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.

Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.

I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.


Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???


I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.

Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.

I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.


Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day

---

He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe

Ali was small in comparison to Lewis and Bowe...yeah he was 6'3-6'4 but 220-225 ain't exactly huge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???


I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.

Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.

I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.


Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day

---

He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe

---

Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Hey Ali won vs Foreman but look at the list....would Ali have made it past Lewis, Holmes, Bowe, or even Tyson???


I see Ali having HUGE trouble with Lewis and Bowe because of their size and athletic ability....same with Holmes.

Tyson was a Liston-Patterson hybrid and Ali had an easy time with both those guys.

I am more interested in how Ali-Holyfield would look...Evander had the determination of a Joe Frazier and dealt with being hit a lot better.


Foreman could KO everyone else...and on a good night he could hurt and even stop Ali IMO....history doesn't have it that way but the way George hit he could KO a brick wall on the right day

---

He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe

---

Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??

---

Ali schooled Holmes for 3 years as a sparring partner

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

He gave Holmes his first black eye
Ali wasnt small and was way more athletic then either Lewis and Bowe

---

Why do you keep bringing this up like it holds some kind of merit ?? tell the whole truth Holmes was a mere novice when Ali gave Holmes a black eye, this was in 1972 right ?? and Holmes was still trying out for the Olmypic trials. Where as Ali was a complete pro at the time, why don't you also mention that Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring in 1974 while preparing for Rumble In The Jungle ??

---

Ali schooled Holmes for 3 years as a sparring partner

---

Not 3 years but who cares ?? Holmes was a novice and Ali was a complete pro so what does that prove ?? you of all people should no sparring holds no water, every boxer has been whooped in sparring at one point even the great Sugar Ray Robinson did. I suppose Greg Page would beat Mike Tyson then going by the logic that Page whooped Tyson in sparring ?? i could be an ass and just say when they met as pro's Holmes whooped Ali, but again Ali was a shot fighter at the time where as Holmes was in his prime, just like Holmes was a novice and Ali was a complete pro when they sparred i just don't see what your trying to prove here with that comment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ali schooled Holmes for 3 years as a sparring partner

---

...and Holyfield used to whip up on Riddick Bowe in sparring....their actual fights didn't (bar #2) didn't go so easily for Evander