Jones Calzaghe's last fight
I hope this isn't the case. I don't mind him taking a payday then fighting Pavlik, but to just fight a washed up Jones then hang them up I have a problem with.
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Jones Calzaghe's last fight
I hope this isn't the case. I don't mind him taking a payday then fighting Pavlik, but to just fight a washed up Jones then hang them up I have a problem with.
If this is true then its just like I said when he dismissed the Pavlik bout. He said about a possible future bout against Kelly, and I said that he'll only have said that to soften the blow of all the critism!Quote:
Originally Posted by the wiz
Understandable move for financial reasons, but not a good one if he wanted to leave a great legacy!
What a guttless turd. Fighting another washed up fighter.
Calzaghe has worked very hard to get to where he is now so you cant blame him for wanting to cash in and fight Jones.
BUt if he retires without fighting Pavlik or at least tring to make the fight happen it will seem to me like unfinnished busness.
This just seals the deal for me if it happens. And I shall write Joe off as a good boxer who played it safe till the end. And I won`t ever forget and be here to remind as to how he talked shit against Pavlik as an excuse to not fight him. Instead of dealing with it with class.
I`ll watch him fight RJJ and I won`t hate on his career when he retires, but I won`t ever forget.
You know,I had gained a measure of respect for Joe after the Kessler fight,even if Kessler was hurt.Joe did take the fight. I was willing to make allowances for the big payday for him to fight a 43 year old Hopkins. But dodging Pavlik to fight Roy So Far Over The Hill He Cant See It Anymore Jr is bs.
Especially after he said last year that he had no interest in fighting Jones anymore
I find people going on about Joe ducking fights ridiculous.
He has had a pretty safe carrer and only stepped it up at the end Warren could be blamed here as well
Joe is at the end of his career in his recent fights he has taken on the fights people wanted to see, how long can you keep taking on the new hottest contender, he has made no secret that he want to retire soon and in his last few fights he has taken on the dangerous young fighters (lacy and Kessler) and taken out the old guard. (Hopkins and hopefully Roy Jones) not a bad end to a career, but oh no there is a new young gun on the horizon two weight divisions lower who if he doesn't fight he is a "chicken shit turd" who's not worth shit!!
My point is at the end of a fighters career who has has fought as well as Joe has, he has taken risks and achieved more than most, I don't mind if he finishs off that career with a big fight that he wants he shouldnt have to take on every young gun on the scene till he gets beat, he has earned it and has to retire some time
Idiots will always jump on a new bandwagon and say such and such a fighter is washed up because it makes them look more like a hardcore boxing fan but in truth Joe will go down as great British figher and shouldn't be accused of ducking anyone
I think this is Calzaghe's big let down. The way he's played the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
He said that about Roy Jones, he's said Pavlik aint at his level which is bs, and he wants to be known as a great and have a legacy.
He is flawed in all of what he says and does. He also made his feelings known about Steve Collins when he was the champion adn Joe was the young up and comer. Now he is doing exactly the same with Pavlik.
I'm a big Calzaghe fan, and I understand he wants a big payday by the easiest fight. But I don't accept all the comments he has made.
It always bothers me a bit, when people try to stack their arguements by saying or suggesting they are hardcore fans and new pêople are just bandwagon jumping. It isn`t really much of an arguement. All it tells really is that you have a long standing bias. You may have good knowledge, but don`t discount the ability to learn. It couldn`t hurt to try to look at a new and fresh approach and perspective. New people have looked at the old if they are worth their salt, used that info - to formulate opinions, often without bias.
Sorry I may not have been clear I tend to go on a bit, I did not mean new people are bandwagon jumping and I never claimed to be a hardcore fan My problem is when boxers get to the top of there game and the end of there career everyone seems to line up to try and shoot them down and say if he doesn't fight this young kid then his whole career is for shit, there is always an new young kid first it was Lacy then Kessler now Pavlik and if he beat Kelly then people will say it was because he was too small and now Joe has to fight such and such or he's a bumQuote:
It always bothers me a bit, when people try to stack their arguements by saying or suggesting they are hardcore fans and new pêople are just bandwagon jumping. It isn`t really much of an arguement. All it tells really is that you have a long standing bias. You may have good knowledge, but don`t discount the ability to learn. It couldn`t hurt to try to look at a new and fresh approach and perspective. New people have looked at the old if they are worth their salt, used that info - to formulate opinions, often without bias.
For the record I have never been a massive Calzaghe Fan I don't like the way he fights but he was great against lacy and I have a lot of respect for him he has done more than most over his carrer
I for one don`t think Joe`s career is for shit. And as I`ve openly stated many times on here, no disrespect would ever have been made to him, or atleast a justified disrespect if he quietly took the RJJ fight, or someone similar as he is heading into or is in the twilight of his career. I would have cheered him on. As a newly self-appointed Pavlik fan though, I did and still do take offence to his statements `he`s just not ready for me, I`m just too good ètc etc...as I don`t believe it so. I`m sure many of us would argue that, and hoped to see the fight. The majority wants to see it. But I think from a legacy point of view, we can understand how he wouldnt. The fight doesnt make much sense for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
He brought the shit talking on himself with those statements. My perspective, of course.
I was going to reply about how i feel if this was Joe's last fight, and say how he's playing it safe and all, but instead, i want to take a look at the flip side..
seems as though we're all assuming that Joe will beat RJJ (obviously up for debate, but in the light of this thread.....)
what if joe LOST to RJJ.. then what? A.) Does he fight again? or retire on a loss.. B.) Is his legacy even WORSE now with a loss to what is considered a "washed-up" RJJ?
I mean, let's just say he loses to RJJ, and someone says, tell me about Joe Calzaghe.. Well he had a million title defenses after defeating Eubank, he was a great young champ he UD'd an up and comer in Jeff Lacy from the US, he UD'd Mikkel Kessler who was the top guy in his division, he SD'd a 43 year old Bernard Hopkins, and then went on to lose to a "washed-up" Roy Jones..
I'm mostly mad cause i do think Joe is a great fighter, i just wish i could've seen more of him in big fights.. it would've been more exciting and he would've made a LOT more money if he was fighting the top names for the last 7-8 years..
Is Lockett now wearing the same dress that Cintron wore, when he spoke of Margo smashing Cotto? you decide...
Boxing: Lockett backs Calzaghe to beat Pavlik - icWales
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
Most of these guys never heard of Calzaghe until the Lacy fight. They don't realise, or conveniently ignore, that he's an old man. And even if he fought, and beat, Pavlik, there would be a new challenge he is ducking.. proving his whole career has been a con-job.
i totally understand where you're coming from.. but i'd like to hear your views on PBF haha.. and see if you say the same things about him.. and if you do, then i'd consider your opinion on calzaghe non-biased..Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
do you think mayweather needs to continue taking on the up and comers (cotto, paul williams, etc..)? He has more meaningful names on his resume then Joe could ever DREAM of, yet he still gets flak for not fighting Cotto (i'm not saying that he shouldn't fight him, just stating what goes on).. So do you think that he needs to continue fighting the new hot prospect, or has he accomplished enough in the sport where he could just retire and not be criticized doing so.. keep in mind that Floyd is not 25, he's 31 or 32, so i don't think the age card is available here..
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Re: Calzaghe says Jones his last fight
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Originally Posted by sonny78
I find people going on about Joe ducking fights ridiculous.
He has had a pretty safe carrer and only stepped it up at the end Warren could be blamed here as well
Joe is at the end of his career in his recent fights he has taken on the fights people wanted to see, how long can you keep taking on the new hottest contender, he has made no secret that he want to retire soon and in his last few fights he has taken on the dangerous young fighters (lacy and Kessler) and taken out the old guard. (Hopkins and hopefully Roy Jones) not a bad end to a career, but oh no there is a new young gun on the horizon two weight divisions lower who if he doesn't fight he is a "chicken shit turd" who's not worth shit!!
My point is at the end of a fighters career who has has fought as well as Joe has, he has taken risks and achieved more than most, I don't mind if he finishs off that career with a big fight that he wants he shouldnt have to take on every young gun on the scene till he gets beat, he has earned it and has to retire some time
Idiots will always jump on a new bandwagon and say such and such a fighter is washed up because it makes them look more like a hardcore boxing fan but in truth Joe will go down as great British figher and shouldn't be accused of ducking anyone
i totally understand where you're coming from.. but i'd like to hear your views on PBF haha.. and see if you say the same things about him.. and if you do, then i'd consider your opinion on calzaghe non-biased..
do you think mayweather needs to continue taking on the up and comers (cotto, paul williams, etc..)? He has more meaningful names on his resume then Joe could ever DREAM of, yet he still gets flak for not fighting Cotto (i'm not saying that he shouldn't fight him, just stating what goes on).. So do you think that he needs to continue fighting the new hot prospect, or has he accomplished enough in the sport where he could just retire and not be criticized doing so.. keep in mind that Floyd is not 25, he's 31 or 32, so i don't think the age card is available here..
I posted this on another thread I feel the same about PBF I would love to see Cotto Vs PBF but will never slag him off for not taking it
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As for PBF he has now retired and if he hasn't he only has one fight left Cotto and Margarito are the two most exciting fighters at WW at the moment but lots can change in a year what if Margarito beats Cotto to then gets beaten by William's again would you all then be shouting for PBF to come back and fight William's otherwise he is an overrated pussy!!
My point is at the end of a fighters career who has has fought as well as these two have, they have both taken risks and achieved more than most, I don't mind if they finish off that career with a big fight that they want and dont take on every young gun on the scene till they get beat, they have earned it they have to retire some time
Idiots will always jump on a new bandwagon and say such and such a fighter is washed up because it makes them look more like a hardcore boxing fan but in truth both these fighters will go down as greats and shouldn't be accused of ducking anyone
I can't remember a "big" fight I cared so little about. Maybe its just me. I would have liked to have seen Calzaghe-Pavlik but oh well, at least it appears that we will not see Mayweather-Hatton 2 which I guess makes up for this at least two times over.
This could turn into a lose-lose situation (except of course money wise and its easy to forget that's mainly what these guys care about, not just Joe) for Joe although I guess you could say almost any fight has that potential.
I also can't be hating on Cal for taking the easy way out, but he should look good on beating RJJ because if not IF HE STRUGGLES even if he wins it's going to be a stinkbomb.
It's more an old boys exhibition - Jones-Tito, Hopkins-Winky.. even Hopkins-Calzaghe to a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The fossils need to fuck off. Fact.
Oh do give it up,other then Kessler he hasnt taken anybody onQuote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
Lacy wasnt ready,Hopkins is to old,and if he had dropped him one more time,Joe loses that fight too.
Pavlik has flat out called him out,and he has to come up to do it,and he goes for the corpse that used to be Roy Jones Jr,who he said he had no interest in fighting just this year
If its not arthritic,injured,in Wales,or inexperienced,Joe doesnt want it
Now that I think about it Jones-Tito was the last "big" fight I cared so little about.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterIt's more an old boys exhibition - Jones-Tito, Hopkins-Winky.. even Hopkins-Calzaghe to a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The fossils need to fuck off. Fact.
Wow, Calzaghe wants nothing to do with Pavlik.Quote:
Originally Posted by the wiz
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Originally Posted by OumaFanNow that I think about it Jones-Tito was the last "big" fight I cared so little about.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterIt's more an old boys exhibition - Jones-Tito, Hopkins-Winky.. even Hopkins-Calzaghe to a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
The fossils need to fuck off. Fact.
Once these guys get to the age where they have GENUINE excuses - bad hands, constant weight troubles, in and out of retirement, complete punch resistance failure... what's the point? Unfortunately veterans tours are harder to sell in boxing than Golf... to the hardcore that is.
All these arguments are too late. Joe had his chance at being an all timer years ago. He chose to stay home and play it safe. Why would we expect any different from him now?
We know Joe was great and still is good, but how good we'll never know since he was so protected. Sorry, his resume looks like Swiss Cheese. His best win was vs. Eubanks. After that his other big wins are tainted one way or another. Hopkins is his second best win, but Hopkins was 43 years old and still put Joe on his butt. Lacey, as it turns out wasn't very good and had fought no one before Joe. Kessler to me is the most over rated fighter around. Kessler has so much to learn as a fighter, so many aspects of his game are amateurish. Kessler has fought no note worthy opponents other than Joe.
Now he's fighting Jones. Jones is 39 and more than washed up. I doubt if Jones can beat Joe. Pavlik is ready for Joe. Joe would still be a slight favorite to beat Kelly, but the power scares Joe apparently. Kelly could bust Joe up.
Joe will go down as one of the All time great British fighters, but he will fade away quickly to American fans. Just not enough quality wins on his resume to be considered an all timer. Its a shame too. I would have rather seen Joe fight all comers and finish his career with 2 or 3 losses these last 10 years rather than finish undefeated with so few quality bouts.
Why would we expect anything different from Joe? This is what he has always done.
True, Calzaghe is already an all time great Brit fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
But will he really be dismissed by the American fan?
He is regarded very highly by The Ring, right?
The "hard core" boxing fans in the U.S. will remember him.
I'm unsuited to talking about "casual fans", I don't really know any or the ones that I do are extremely "casual." Literally none of my friends or family watch boxing on any kind of regular basis. The last fight that any of my friends were really excited about was Tyson-Lewis. They have heard of Tyson, ODLH, Roy Jones, and were just beginning to know Floyd's name when he retired. Anyway they have no idea who Joe Calzaghe is and its not just cause he's European.
What is a "casual fan" by the way? Do they watch HBO fights fairly regularly but not know who Ivan Calderon is? I suspect Joe won't be remembered that much but who knows.
One ridiculous thing about all of this is assuming Calzaghe doesn't want to fight Pavlik there are rumors that Pavlik will instead fight Mayorga. Bloodbath.
Isn't that the opposite of what Cintron did with Margo? Cintron backed the guy who beat him, Lockett is doing otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngblood
Pavlik and Arum flat out called Joe out,not hinted they might be interested,said in plain the Queens English,we want JoeQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
:confused: I know. I'm not attacking Pavlik, he wanted to make a big fight, and since it didn't happen he'll just have a ridiculously easy stay busy fight. There's really nobody for him to fight, Pavlik-Sturm, LOL, good luck in making that. And obviously Abraham and Miranda are busy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyPavlik and Arum flat out called Joe out,not hinted they might be interested,said in plain the Queens English,we want JoeQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
If Pavlik fights Mayorga instead of Winky or another legitimate challenge, then Pavlik fans need to shut up about Calzaghe taking on an over the hill and shot opponent. Mayorga is well best his best, he's done nothing to deserve a title shot, Pavlik's already had a gimme fight in his last bout, and Mayorga has fought as low as 140 in his career and he's already been stopped 3 times by fighters who don't hit anywhere near as hard as Pavlik.
Well there is Winky, I forgot about him. He isn't the easiest guy to make a fight with and obviously I could see why Arum wouldn't want to make that (hard to look good against, old so people will discredit the win if he dominates) but that would be a good fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm willing to give Pavlik a pass cause he tried to make a big time fight. He needs to fight Abraham at some point though and Winky although I don't see that happening.
He should find a better stay busy fight than Mayorga but like I said I find it hard to get that upset about it since he tried to make a big fight.
A "casual" DEFINITELY doesn't have a clue who Calderon is ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Calzaghe-Kessler got the lowest ever "free" HBO TV rating (it was over a million viewers).
The HBO PPVs seem to average around 250,000-350,000 barring Oscar-Hatton-Floyd fights.
I guess the majority of fans are "casual".. and these guys don't really care or understand if a fighter is COMPLETELY past his peak, has an over padded record, has no chance of winning a fight etc... that's why mismatches make sense to TV and promoters and fighters :-\
He tried to make one fight with a guy 1 or 2 divisions above him. How about fighting a ranked middleweight then if that fight can't be made?Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWell there is Winky, I forgot about him. He isn't the easiest guy to make a fight with and obviously I could see why Arum wouldn't want to make that (hard to look good against, old so people will discredit the win if he dominates) but that would be a good fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm willing to give Pavlik a pass cause he tried to make a big time fight. He needs to fight Abraham at some point though and Winky although I don't see that happening.
He should find a better stay busy fight than Mayorga but like I said I find it hard to get that upset about it since he tried to make a big fight.
Hasn't Calzaghe been slated throughout his career for trying and not succeeding in making big fights? Mayorga or Rubio are gimme fights in the same vein of a Bika, and Roy Jones Jr. is a biggest test for Calzaghe than either of those fighters are for Pavlik.
Pavlik massacred of Lockett which Enzo Calzaghe saw first hand has without a doubt convinced him not to put his son nowhere near Pavlik. His son would get hurt. And Joe agrees.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but who? The middleweight division outside of Pavlik, Abraham, Winky, and maybe Sturm (and I find it hard to believe Sturm would come to the U.S. to fight Pavlik) is a graveyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHHe tried to make one fight with a guy 1 or 2 divisions above him. How about fighting a ranked middleweight then if that fight can't be made?Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWell there is Winky, I forgot about him. He isn't the easiest guy to make a fight with and obviously I could see why Arum wouldn't want to make that (hard to look good against, old so people will discredit the win if he dominates) but that would be a good fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I'm willing to give Pavlik a pass cause he tried to make a big time fight. He needs to fight Abraham at some point though and Winky although I don't see that happening.
He should find a better stay busy fight than Mayorga but like I said I find it hard to get that upset about it since he tried to make a big fight.
Hasn't Calzaghe been slated throughout his career for trying and not succeeding in making big fights? Mayorga or Rubio are gimme fights in the same vein of a Bika, and Roy Jones Jr. is a biggest test for Calzaghe than either of those fighters are for Pavlik.
They should do a better stay busy fight (Geovanni Lorenzo? Amin Asikainen? there's not much there, I'm not even sure that these guys would put up much more than Mayorga even if they are middles) but I'm not as upset about it as you are. He fought Miranda, Taylor twice, took a totally acceptable gimme and then tried to make a fight with Calzaghe. Even if he takes another gimme as long as he fights somebody like Abraham after that I won't care.
This does nothing for Joe except line his pockets and add a faded name in Jones Jr,who is holding on by his fingertips to reclaim his stature...Why do some fans settle for going backwards so easily ?
I don't think it would be that hard to make a fight with Winky, Winky himself has been saying he wants the fight in every interview I've read with him. I'm not necessarily opposed to Pavlik taking another gimme if he fights an Abraham afterwards, but I'm getting tired of seeing Calzaghe getting ripped into while Pavlik apparently can do no wrong. Lockett, an older Mayorga, and Rubio aren't exactly the highest level of competition, I'd prefer any of the ranked guys you mentioned to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanI'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but who? The middleweight division outside of Pavlik, Abraham, Winky, and maybe Sturm (and I find it hard to believe Sturm would come to the U.S. to fight Pavlik) is a graveyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHHe tried to make one fight with a guy 1 or 2 divisions above him. How about fighting a ranked middleweight then if that fight can't be made?Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Hasn't Calzaghe been slated throughout his career for trying and not succeeding in making big fights? Mayorga or Rubio are gimme fights in the same vein of a Bika, and Roy Jones Jr. is a biggest test for Calzaghe than either of those fighters are for Pavlik.
They should do a better stay busy fight (Geovanni Lorenzo? Amin Asikainen? there's not much there, I'm not even sure that these guys would put up much more than Mayorga even if they are middles) but I'm not as upset about it as you are. He fought Miranda, Taylor twice, took a totally acceptable gimme and then tried to make a fight with Calzaghe. Even if he takes another gimme as long as he fights somebody like Abraham after that I won't care.
Last time I checked Joe and Roy were LightHeavyweights and Pavlik was a Middle.. Am I missing something here :shrug:
Joe Lineal LightHeavy Champ
Pavlik Lineal Middleweight Champ
Joe is defending one of his belts... I say Pavlik should unify against another Middleweight before fighting Joe... Joe is just grandstanding just like Mayweather is to Cotto... Within the year depending if Calzaghe gets by Jones.. You will have seen Mayweather/Cotto Pavlik/Calzaghe
Fair enough, but most people are going to see Pavlik in a better light than Calzaghe on this considering Pavlik's the one who wanted to make the fight. Most people got over Calzaghe taking two gimmes after the Lacy fight (which came after a string of pretty anonymous guys) when he signed to fight Kessler. Pavlik has fought tough competition lately and he was interested in another big fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI don't think it would be that hard to make a fight with Winky, Winky himself has been saying he wants the fight in every interview I've read with him. I'm not necessarily opposed to Pavlik taking another gimme if he fights an Abraham afterwards, but I'm getting tired of seeing Calzaghe getting ripped into while Pavlik apparently can do no wrong. Lockett, an older Mayorga, and Rubio aren't exactly the highest level of competition, I'd prefer any of the ranked guys you mentioned to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanI'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but who? The middleweight division outside of Pavlik, Abraham, Winky, and maybe Sturm (and I find it hard to believe Sturm would come to the U.S. to fight Pavlik) is a graveyard.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
They should do a better stay busy fight (Geovanni Lorenzo? Amin Asikainen? there's not much there, I'm not even sure that these guys would put up much more than Mayorga even if they are middles) but I'm not as upset about it as you are. He fought Miranda, Taylor twice, took a totally acceptable gimme and then tried to make a fight with Calzaghe. Even if he takes another gimme as long as he fights somebody like Abraham after that I won't care.
As far as the possibilities of making a Winky fight, I don't really know, that's always been the story about Winky, or at least lately, but I don't know. But Arum will do anything he can not to make it anyway.
And also Mayorga's a rumor, we'll see if it happens. It would be a bad choice no doubt.