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Since 2006 he's been taking fights too much in his favor. Juan Manuel Marquez was his only real test and even that guy's past his prime.
Pacquiao's last "real" fight was 2006 Jaunuary in a rematch with Morales.
Pac has had a chance to face young (Guzman is one of them) and dangerous fighters, but like a "Mayweather" hasn't faced them.
I'm sorry Pacquaio fans, it's just the way it is.
huh :confused: guzman is not young.
theres only been valero,soto, guzman pac hasn't face. noun of them would be better fights since 2006. plus guzman is not young :LOLATYOU: his older than diaz, eric, mab, jmm. I think guzman would be pacs oldest oppenent :lolhaha:
It's not PACMAN's fault if he was able to beat fighters who are supossed to be more "skilled" than him.
I know PAC will be criticized for not fighting GUZMAN, but earlier this year PAC just beat Marquez whom is as dangerous if not far more dangerous than Joan Guzman.
Regarding steppin it up, I'm pretty sure PAC will be fighting Marquez again after he disposes of Casamayor.
Your right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Even more reason that Pac should have fought him. Guzman needs his chance, hasn't had a big fight. Fightwise, he's younger than JMM, Diaz, Erik, AND Mab.
Pacquiao needs to step it up. It's getting to the point where his fights are not interesting.
This is not about Guzman.
Pac just needs to fight in better matchups. It's very predictable, his matchups are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrokai
I cant see how Marques was clearly the next best 130lb fighter and prior to both Pac-Man fights coming off career best runs.
Who else since 2006 would be a tougher fight for him than JMM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrokaiYour right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Even more reason that Pac should have fought him. Guzman needs his chance, hasn't had a big fight. Fightwise, he's younger than JMM, Diaz, Erik, AND Mab.
Pacquiao needs to step it up. It's getting to the point where his fights are not interesting.
Brilliant post
When you look at Pacs recent opponents, they all have summat in comm , they are either washed up or useless.
He has never fought a good up and coming boxer so I cant see why he would start now when he can continue fooling alot of his Countrymen and getting paid to do it.
well who do you suggest he fights?Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrokai
Pac should of fought guzman? well pac does not make the fight his promoters does. If guzman would of rally up some impressive wins he would of made enough noise to deserve a great match with pac, but he hasn't stayed consistantly throughout his career to be up with the greats. Did you see Soto vs Guzman?Quote:
Originally Posted by gyrokaiYour right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Even more reason that Pac should have fought him. Guzman needs his chance, hasn't had a big fight. Fightwise, he's younger than JMM, Diaz, Erik, AND Mab.
Pacquiao needs to step it up. It's getting to the point where his fights are not interesting.
Pac just did step it up, he step up to 135 and will soon fight casa/jmm, nate/guzman, or hatton at 140. He just got warmed up at lightweight, what more can you ask?
Again who do you suggest pac fighting besides the guys he did since 2006?
So Marquez is either washed up or useless;DQuote:
Originally Posted by GAMEQuote:
Originally Posted by gyrokaiYour right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Even more reason that Pac should have fought him. Guzman needs his chance, hasn't had a big fight. Fightwise, he's younger than JMM, Diaz, Erik, AND Mab.
Pacquiao needs to step it up. It's getting to the point where his fights are not interesting.
Brilliant post
When you look at Pacs recent opponents, they all have summat in comm , they are either washed up or useless.
He has never fought a good up and coming boxer so I cant see why he would start now when he can continue fooling alot of his Countrymen and getting paid to do it.
I believe JMM is going to beat Casamayor:)
OK this is like a joke right. Hey I know David Diaz ain't exactly a hall of famer but he was a champion in yet another weight division for Paquiao. I for one am through with the idea of seeing him and Marquez go at it again. They were great fights but its time we moved on. Pacman is not even 30 yet. He still has some big fights comming up and he is doing great.
Pac didnt beat Marquez . He got gifts in both fights . Even a washed up Morales coming off a defeat to Barrera beat Pac .
Didnt Mayweather get a gift against Castillo and who did Mayweather beat for titles when he moved up?
Gatti, Baldomir to name but two at least Diaz is in hisa prime.
I see a lot of bad blood and i think it is Mayweather fans instigating it because Pacquiao is now the number 1 P4P fighter in the world.
Chris John? The guy who had a much easier time with JMM then he did?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by gyrokai
I cant see how Marques was clearly the next best 130lb fighter and prior to both Pac-Man fights coming off career best runs.
Who else since 2006 would be a tougher fight for him than JMM?
There's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Mayweather had a messed up shoulder and it was his first fight at Lightweight when he fought Castillo and then he came back in the rematch and beat Castillo clearly
Pacquiao on the other hand has struggled with JMM twice and it can be made a case that he lost the second fight after improving as a fighter.
But like I said, fights against people like Diaz won't answer any of our questions about Pacquiao. It answered what we already knew, he is a storm against people who stand in front of him and he has devastating power. But against someone like Marquez it seems he struggles. Now to answer if its just Marquez that has the formula or can the other lights of this division that can box have a chance as well?
This is what fights with the likes of Guzman and Chris John will show about Pacquiao.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyChris John? The guy who had a much easier time with JMM then he did?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by gyrokai
I cant see how Marques was clearly the next best 130lb fighter and prior to both Pac-Man fights coming off career best runs.
Who else since 2006 would be a tougher fight for him than JMM?
I take it you have not seen John vs Marques.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyThere's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Mayweather had a messed up shoulder and it was his first fight at Lightweight when he fought Castillo and then he came back in the rematch and beat Castillo clearly
Pacquiao on the other hand has struggled with JMM twice and it can be made a case that he lost the second fight after improving as a fighter.
But like I said, fights against people like Diaz won't answer any of our questions about Pacquiao. It answered what we already knew, he is a storm against people who stand in front of him and he has devastating power. But against someone like Marquez it seems he struggles. Now to answer if its just Marquez that has the formula or can the other lights of this division that can box have a chance as well?
This is what fights with the likes of Guzman and Chris John will show about Pacquiao.
Im just defending the Pac-Man i know beating Diaz isnt that great but it was his first fight at the weight and he fought a solid title holder. Again should Pacquaio clear up 135lbs he would become a 4 weight world champion, not just a 4 weight title holder.
This is going to be a rehash:Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
PAC-JMM1= Pac was suppose to win if not for Judge Bert Clements scoring a 10-7 instead of the 10-6 for 3 knockdowns.
Pac-JMM2= Pac got it already in round 10 even if he lost both 11th and 12th round. YES! That 3rd round knockdown matters and those instances were PAC rocked JMM.
EM-PAC1= NO excuses but it was avenged in a career ruining way.
I could argue that Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antonio Barrerra and Eric Moralez are better fighters than anyone Mayweather ever faced and you would have a hard time trying to convince me otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyThere's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Mayweather had a messed up shoulder and it was his first fight at Lightweight when he fought Castillo and then he came back in the rematch and beat Castillo clearly
Pacquiao on the other hand has struggled with JMM twice and it can be made a case that he lost the second fight after improving as a fighter.
But like I said, fights against people like Diaz won't answer any of our questions about Pacquiao. It answered what we already knew, he is a storm against people who stand in front of him and he has devastating power. But against someone like Marquez it seems he struggles. Now to answer if its just Marquez that has the formula or can the other lights of this division that can box have a chance as well?
This is what fights with the likes of Guzman and Chris John will show about Pacquiao.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie FanI could argue that Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antonio Barrerra and Eric Moralez are better fighters than anyone Mayweather ever faced and you would have a hard time trying to convince me otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyThere's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Mayweather had a messed up shoulder and it was his first fight at Lightweight when he fought Castillo and then he came back in the rematch and beat Castillo clearly
Pacquiao on the other hand has struggled with JMM twice and it can be made a case that he lost the second fight after improving as a fighter.
But like I said, fights against people like Diaz won't answer any of our questions about Pacquiao. It answered what we already knew, he is a storm against people who stand in front of him and he has devastating power. But against someone like Marquez it seems he struggles. Now to answer if its just Marquez that has the formula or can the other lights of this division that can box have a chance as well?
This is what fights with the likes of Guzman and Chris John will show about Pacquiao.
I think Marques is as good as anyone p4p that Floyd has fought no doubt and Morales and Barerra slightly faded.
Argue it then and I'll argue back :)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie FanI could argue that Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antonio Barrerra and Eric Moralez are better fighters than anyone Mayweather ever faced and you would have a hard time trying to convince me otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyThere's a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Mayweather had a messed up shoulder and it was his first fight at Lightweight when he fought Castillo and then he came back in the rematch and beat Castillo clearly
Pacquiao on the other hand has struggled with JMM twice and it can be made a case that he lost the second fight after improving as a fighter.
But like I said, fights against people like Diaz won't answer any of our questions about Pacquiao. It answered what we already knew, he is a storm against people who stand in front of him and he has devastating power. But against someone like Marquez it seems he struggles. Now to answer if its just Marquez that has the formula or can the other lights of this division that can box have a chance as well?
This is what fights with the likes of Guzman and Chris John will show about Pacquiao.
OK, I will bite.. Name me one fighter Mayweather faced better than Marquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyArgue it then and I'll argue back :)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie FanI could argue that Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antonio Barrerra and Eric Moralez are better fighters than anyone Mayweather ever faced and you would have a hard time trying to convince me otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Name one fight Floyd beat that was top 5 P4P then a year later still be top 5 P4P.
Not a worldclass Corrales not elite, Oscar old not active and Hatton was out of his depth at 147lbs.
Only one i can think of that even comes close is Castillo.
Corrales and Castillo heck even Genaro Hernandez and Corrales are better are both better then Marquez imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie FanOK, I will bite.. Name me one fighter Mayweather faced better than Marquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyArgue it then and I'll argue back :)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Marquez only gets exposure for coming back against Pacquiao other then that he looked bad against Gainer and Chris John exposed how he can't come forward very well and beat him. There are people better then Marquez but he gets exposure from coming back from 3 knockdowns to nearly beat Pacquiao. Chris John beats Marquez but who fights Pacquiao again? Marquez can't seem to outbox a boxer which is something Corrales did to Casamayor the second time around and before facing Mayweather Corrales was an excellent boxer and people forget how great he was at 130 he knocked out a younger Derrick Gainer whom Marquez looked bad against even though Gainer didn't mount much offense Marquez couldn't seem to take true advantage of it and it showed some of his holes.
But go on :)
Stop using the whole "Hatton is out of his depth at 147" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Because the fight wouldn't have been any different at 140. And people were still picking Hatton because they felt that Mayweather can be beaten by pressuring him.
And NO ONE would have guessed that Mayweather would knock him out.
No more "Hatton was at 147" excuse unless you think Hatton would have won at 140 as well.
pac would ktfo of chris john, john is not elite. john got a homecooking decision over jmm.
Did you actually watch the fight, jmm school chris john. john only lasted 12 cause he ran around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyStop using the whole "Hatton is out of his depth at 147" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Because the fight wouldn't have been any different at 140. And people were still picking Hatton because they felt that Mayweather can be beaten by pressuring him.
And NO ONE would have guessed that Mayweather would knock him out.
No more "Hatton was at 147" excuse unless you think Hatton would have won at 140 as well.
At 140lbs without Joe Cortez the fight would be competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyCorrales and Castillo heck even Genaro Hernandez and Corrales are better are both better then Marquez imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie FanOK, I will bite.. Name me one fighter Mayweather faced better than Marquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Marquez only gets exposure for coming back against Pacquiao other then that he looked bad against Gainer and Chris John exposed how he can't come forward very well and beat him. There are people better then Marquez but he gets exposure from coming back from 3 knockdowns to nearly beat Pacquiao. Chris John beats Marquez but who fights Pacquiao again? Marquez can't seem to outbox a boxer which is something Corrales did to Casamayor the second time around and before facing Mayweather Corrales was an excellent boxer and people forget how great he was at 130 he knocked out a younger Derrick Gainer whom Marquez looked bad against even though Gainer didn't mount much offense Marquez couldn't seem to take true advantage of it and it showed some of his holes.
But go on :)
Dont be silly mate one more good win and Pacquaio has a better resume than Mayweather imo.
I'm not sure Pac has a better resume that Floyd at this point, but I'll admit, as a Floyd fan, if Floyd hadn't 'officially' retired I think Pac would have surpassed him in every publication as p4p #1. It's one thing to move up in weight and win titles. It's entirely another thing to move up from f@ckin' flyweight and become a lightweight champion. Not only that, the guy has knocked out just about every title holder he's faced. Pac man is THE man as far as I'm concerned. If Floyd does come back, he'll do so as #2 in my book.
Marquez looked bad against Gainer :lolhaha: When are you going to learn to stop saying that? I'm thinking about neg repping you right now Majesty.
By not good I mean he didn't knock him out. Gainer fought scared and threw one punch the entire fight? Aganst someone like that someone the class of Marquez should have knocked him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I don't mean he looked bad as in he looked like a bum. But against someone fighting as badly as that Marquez should have knocked him out.
Read what I said "even though Gainer didn't mount much offense Marquez couldn't seem to take true advantage of it and it showed some of his holes."
Joe Cortez isn't the reason why Mayweather knocked Hatton out.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyStop using the whole "Hatton is out of his depth at 147" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Because the fight wouldn't have been any different at 140. And people were still picking Hatton because they felt that Mayweather can be beaten by pressuring him.
And NO ONE would have guessed that Mayweather would knock him out.
No more "Hatton was at 147" excuse unless you think Hatton would have won at 140 as well.
At 140lbs without Joe Cortez the fight would be competitive.
Woah woah. it's getting ugly here.
I'm just saying Pacquiao's fights are not interesting. Diaz, Solis, Morales III were all very predictable who was going to win.
Solis, because who the hell his Solis. heh
Diaz, because Morales already beat him.
Morales III, because we all knew Morales would get knocked out again.
Marquez is a good fight... but we all knew Pac would win. Well I didn't feel any danger coming into the fight, especially since Marquez has slowed a bit.
But nonetheless, JMM is a good fight. But other than that...
Solis, Diaz, Morales were all bad fights.
IMO Pac better make things exciting and shake up this division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by match
Should Pacquaio fight and beat Nate Campbell he would have beaten anything Mayweather has done.
He would be a 4 weight legit world champion not just a title holder.
Manny should try and clean out 135lbs or fight Hatton he will then prove he is willing to fight the best not just move through the weights looking to win paper titles and then claim he was champion at the weight.
All depends on what Pacquaio does next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyJoe Cortez isn't the reason why Mayweather knocked Hatton out.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
At 140lbs without Joe Cortez the fight would be competitive.
"At 140lbs without Joe Cortez the fight would be competative"
Read what im saying.
From flyweight to lightweight champion, wasn't Pacquiao starting fighting at 17 or 16 or something like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by match
What about from super bantamweight to junior middleweight champion like Mayweather did?
I see what you are saying. But would the result have been any different?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyJoe Cortez isn't the reason why Mayweather knocked Hatton out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
"At 140lbs without Joe Cortez the fight would be competative"
Read what im saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyI see what you are saying. But would the result have been any different?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
"At 140lbs without Joe Cortez the fight would be competative"
Read what im saying.
Probably not but the fight would have been competative.
Thats what Im saying though. If the result was gonna be the same then whats the point of using any excuse?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyI see what you are saying. But would the result have been any different?Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Probably not but the fight would have been competative.
You get what I mean though?
And a guy that is supposed to be past his prime beat him twice in the eyes of many boxing experts and fans:rolleyes:.Quote:
=gyrokai;548164]Since 2006 he's been taking fights too much in his favor. Juan Manuel Marquez was his only real test and even that guy's past his prime.
What someone did as an amateur mean absolutely nothing as far as his pro legacy. If that were the case, we'd be including what all these guy's did when they started boxing at the age of 7 or 8 as most of them did. Floyd began his pro career as a jr. lightweight. Pac began his pro career at a weight that was less than most bulemic supermodels. I'm not crapping on Floyd b/c IMO he's the greatest fighter I've seen in my era, but Pac rose up from the middle earth hobbit weight classes and has cemented himself as a legitamate lightweight champion. That's pretty impressive IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyFrom flyweight to lightweight champion, wasn't Pacquiao starting fighting at 17 or 16 or something like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by match
What about from super bantamweight to junior middleweight champion like Mayweather did?