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just curious, why do so many boxers that come here want 22 inch biceps and similar measurements for the rest of their muscles? do any of you think that the rest of the package should be dealt with? flexability, reaction speed, timing etc? big pretty muscles don't always help you punch harder and they definitely don't help you fight better....
why would you assume this?Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
If you are referring to the 1-5 post people that come in and exit nearly as fast, then I don't think it really counts because I don't think they are boxers...they are generally youtube vid backyard heavybag smashers who are kinda clueless and looking for adoration from anonymous people over the internet.
Most of the people I see in here, the regulars, are concerned about the many aspects of boxing, and preparedness. Young or fairly new like me and hoping to learn from each other, and then those with much experience and years like the older vets selflessly sharing what they know etc...
Maybe I'm not sure I understood your post?
Those really arent boxers,theyre dabblers who think cut=tough, most of the actual boxers here care about one thing,putting the other guy flat out.
Firstly no boxer in the history of boxing has had 22 inch biceps...tysons were 17-17.5inch maximum cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Secondly, its good to be above average in size, but not to big, for example, i realised when i was lanky at like 83kg (im 6 foot 2 by the way), anyway i used to be fast, at boxing, i could throw 3 jabs in above average time, but i bulked up to 95kg over time, and i had a good body, but i was 10x slower. So its up to you, if you train you can maintain size and flexibiltiy, if u just do gym youll be a blob.
There not boxers simple as that.
..why arent they boxers?, more mass you have = more force, CONSIDERING YOU KNOW HOW TO BOX.
If you take a hit, your muscles can absorb it rather than your bony ass ribs, thats why some boxers build muscle.
Im not saying its bad thing to build muscle i know all about building muscle mass, but boxers who want 22 inch biceps or anything to that extreme aren't boxers and aren't in the right sport. There punches would be so slow that you could go out for 5 mins and get a drink and comeback and still have time to avoid there punches. I do weights myself some Squats, Deadlifts, etc. But i wouldn't go to the extreme that i would want to look like the incredible hulk. Boxing is about having speed, heart, stamina, flexability, amongst a lot of other things, not how big your biceps are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Immortal
Well said, muscles can only take you so far in this game. Personally I love the way boxing makes me look, but I don't do boxing to have that 6 pack. I do boxing for boxing, whether that be punched in the face, spewing after a punchout drill or waking up and not being able to move the next morning. I think that's what differentiates a boxer and others, their desire for the sport and not the desire for admiration, a good body or fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBIm not saying its bad thing to build muscle i know all about building muscle mass, but boxers who want 22 inch biceps or anything to that extreme aren't boxers and aren't in the right sport. There punches would be so slow that you could go out for 5 mins and get a drink and comeback and still have time to avoid there punches. I do weights myself some Squats, Deadlifts, etc. But i wouldn't go to the extreme that i would want to look like the incredible hulk. Boxing is about having speed, heart, stamina, flexability, amongst a lot of other things, not how big your biceps are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Immortal
If you were wanting to put mass behind your hits wouldn't it make more sense to build it in the forearms instead of in the biceps? People rarely get hit in the biceps, but they get hit in the forearms all the time (with guard up) and that's the mass which is going to matter more for stuff like jabs which you don't put your full weight behind. Plus it helps to build more stable wrists for hitting with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyciol
I think it is fair to say that most of us in here know the biceps aren't a muscle group most required for boxing, but is still needed to be worked for balance and mobility in accessing the triceps shoulders and lats and the whole power system as it moves our center of gravity from the feet upward to bring that powerful punch we seek to fruition. Form of course is what is truly going to create it, but having a physique ready to delivery that proper form is optimal I believe.
I agree with the forearm strengthening...and wrists and hands. Maybe not for the same reasons, but I can't think of a part of the body that couldn't use strengthening for boxing.
I wouldn't want to abandon biceps and end up disproportioned ...but also have no interest in having them be large and purdy...like about 3/4's of the people I know personally who lift for looks.
I do think it is important to know when is enough though, for building, and that personally is something I am looking at. For both age and growth and potential long term damage...plus just for a good balanced boxing physique.
I agree, it's good to build it for balance and stuff, but by that same logic you would also want to train your lats/traps/rhomboids too, so I don't really see the point in doing isolation stuff like curls when you can train more muscles in a balanced fashion by doing chins/pulls/rows.
More mass? What about nerve pathways, muscle synchronization and body make up? dead weight or slow twitch muscles (the bigger muscle cells that tend to develop during hypertrophy or 'mass' training) aren't gonna help much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Immortal
Sorry if I;m telling you how to suck eggs but there's a lot more to conditioning and physical performance than that.
sigh, the point was that big biceps aren't all that is needed.yes muscle is good, but there are other things to consider. remember the thread that would not die about trenabol or whatever that fun was? it won't help that much, and if you depend n it maybe you should not box...
Im saying it isQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBIm not saying its bad thing to build muscle i know all about building muscle mass, but boxers who want 22 inch biceps or anything to that extreme aren't boxers and aren't in the right sport. There punches would be so slow that you could go out for 5 mins and get a drink and comeback and still have time to avoid there punches. I do weights myself some Squats, Deadlifts, etc. But i wouldn't go to the extreme that i would want to look like the incredible hulk. Boxing is about having speed, heart, stamina, flexability, amongst a lot of other things, not how big your biceps are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Immortal
Too much bulk,equals too much weight for your frame to carry and properly drive with, equals injuries a plenty, and crap for speed to boot
thanx monkey i guess that is more the point i wanted to make.
I'm pretty sure I knew what you meant too iceman. And also agree. I just was confused as to where it was directed. The thing which attracted me to Saddo right away was I noticed the posters were more well-rounded in their knowledge, or seeking of info. then just how to get big and strong.
I still go to most of the other sites as more of a spectator, and sometimes troll just for a laugh. I was just at one (like minutes ago) and had a giggle thinking of this thread...because one of the first posts I saw in the training section was..."How big are your biceps?" lol Not even kidding.
the best answer for that should be" well i need your help'" Can you scratch my ass?"
Weight lifting for aesthetics isn't very beneficial to a boxer.
I can't see many fighters building stupidly sized biceps or triceps without moving up several weight classes anyway. Your not likely to see 9 stone fighters with 16 inch arms.
Unless you're really genetically gifted it would be very difficult. It comes down to muscle fibers....
For example, an athlete may have a 50/50 mix of fast twitch/slow twitch fibers in a muscle, but since FT fibers normally
have a larger cross-sectional area than ST fibers, 65% of that muscle's area may be FT and 35% may be ST. Following a strength training program for improvement in muscular strength, the number of FT and ST fibers will remain the same (still 50/50), however the cross-sectional area will change. This happens because the ST fibers will atrophy (get smaller) while the FT fibers will hypertrophy (get larger).
Depending on the specific intensity used in training, the muscle may change to a 75% FT area and a 25% ST area. The change in area will lead to greater strength but decreased endurance capabilities. In addition, since the mass of FT fibers are greater than that of ST fibers, the athlete will gain mass, as measured by the circumference of the muscle.
If the athlete trains for muscular endurance, the FT fibers will atrophy while the ST fibers hypertrophy, causing a greater area of ST fibers. The area of the muscle, which began at 65% FT and 35% ST before training, may change to 50% FT and 50% ST following training, The endurance capabilities of the muscle will increase while its strength will decrease, and the athlete will lose some muscle mass, again because ST fibers are lower in mass than FT fibers. The decrease in mass may be observed by a smaller circumference of the muscle.
That pretty much says everything i wanted to say about it. Maybe a little better :p
Basically explains why it would be very difficult for a boxer to build insanely big arms while having fantastic endurance....unless he was built like an actual brick shithouse to begin with...in which case his arms would already be insanely big.
Boxing uses the musclo-skeletal system in order to generate force.
This implies that a boxer in order to create physical power (at the point of impact of his fist) must utilise perfect technique when utilising the skeletal system to pivot, twist, create leverage and direct the punch.
This requires the development of functional muscle. Functional muscle obviously aids the body in moving the skeletal system. The development of the muscles allows for faster, more explosive and more powerful movements of the body.
Functional muscle is sport specific. In boxing the individual must target the muscles that need development and in this way they can actually increase punching power, movement and speed.
Of course, given the nature of the sport, the individual must also tend to the rest of the body and tend to aerobic and anaerobic fitness. Muscle must also be trained to increase endurance, so size is not advantageous.
The biceps have little function in boxing, but in order to develop ones body to full capacity, every muscle must be attended to.
Nothing for a young amateur boxer to be worried about though.
They'd be much better served perfecting their technique first;)
too much muscle will slow you down, bind you up, make you inflexable, decrease your stamina and take the "Snap" out of punches. Those muscles are great if you could bear hug or body slam, but this is boxing we are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngbloodwhy would you assume this?Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Too much Bulk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
Muscle added in the correct locations can be speeds missing ingredient.
abso-bloody-exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyToo much Bulk.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigragu
Muscle added in the correct locations can be speeds missing ingredient.
;D