How would a Roy Jones Jr Vs Marvin Hagler fight have ended

Ive been thinking about this fight for a couple of years now (since I found out Hagler beat Roys Dad up) and was thinking how good a fight it would have been. Both were seemingly invincible in their primes (although Roy probably peaked in the SMW and LHW divisions so it will have to be considered a p4p fight). They both had an amazing ability to fight out of either Orthodox or southpaw stances (though Roy was natural O and Hagler natural S), and though Roy IMO was the better all round BOXER I think that Hagler was the more blood and guts type fighter of the two and had a better chin.

My vote would be for a Jones decision victory but I would have loved to have seen them in their primes against each other.

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

The Hagler of 78-83 would knock Jones out the Hagler that fought Hearns and Leonard would lose a close dec to Roy.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

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But also too slow.

Roy would make it a stinkfest and take the decision.

Great matchup this one. Nothing would surprise me, an I am gonna be brave and say D12 ;D

Another thing I forgot to mention was Haglers tendency to cut up and Roys sublime accuracy. I see these being 2 major factors that could cause the fight to be stopped on cuts.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

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But also too slow.

Roy would make it a stinkfest and take the decision.

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Hagler too slow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwgF0Z981A

I take it you have never seen a prime Hagler just watch him in 1980.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8

Hagler was not prime against Hearns or Leonard.

Hagler slow? jeeez bageebs.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

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But also too slow.

Roy would make it a stinkfest and take the decision.

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Hagler too slow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwgF0Z981A

I take it you have never seen a prime Hagler just watch him in 1980.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8

Hagler was not prime against Hearns or Leonard.

Hagler slow? jeeez bageebs.

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Certainly wasn't. BUT definitley slower than Jones.

Of the famous 4 Hagler would have probably had the best chance vs Jones . Hagler was great and cutting the ring down and making it his type of fight.

Ray was over the hill and moving up in weight when he outboxed Hagler so I think prime Roy would have done a similar job atleast

For me it would finish with RJJ on his arse late on in the fight

I think if it was over 12 rounds RJJ would stand a slim chance but over 15 its a stoppage win for Hagler.


Hagler colud do it all,box,punch fight goiing forward or box on the back foot.

Sooner or later he would get to Jones then that would be the start of the end.

Not sure. Jones was a little green at 160 and still improving and getting more experience, but he was a bigger 160 than Hagler was, under different weigh-in rules.

Jones later on developed a lot of experiences against southpaws, but didn't have much when he was a middleweight.

I'm thinking that Hagler's best game-plan should not be his usual patient boxer-puncher style and maybe he should throw caution to the wind and swarm Roy like he did Tommy.

Jones right hand would win him the fight. His speed, timing, and relfexes would be enough to stay one step ahead of Hagler.

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Originally Posted by irish warrior

roberto duran had the beating of all of them INCLUDING jones in his prime.

[say 1973-1075-1980, he had a little good run in the early 80's]

he would pressure, in his prime he was more aggresive, quicker, more stamina, best chin out of all of them, and whacked hard.

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Duran was too damn small for Hagler and Jones. His fight with Hagler was one of the most overrated "close" fights I've ever seen. Duran won 4 rounds.

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Originally Posted by irish warrior

but the winner of them all would be either:

julio cesar chavez
jake lamotta
rocky grazianio
sugar ray robinson.

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Wait, are you picking these guys over Hagler and Jones? Chavez was way too small and Graziano was limited and protected.

Hard choice...I will say this much...As good as Roy was at 160 and 168 he would not have had his way with Marvin like he did James Toney....Jones has some size over Hagler but in the end it would come down to the fact on who was able to keep thier fight plan

I think alot of people forgetting how great Hagler was last 70s early 80s.

At MW I think Hagler stops Roy or gets a UD at SMW I think RJJ gets the UD

Funny one, Marvin never was good with movers and clever Fighters. I know He struggled with Kevin Finnegan twice, I think his team stayed clear of smart arses thereafter. Guys who could move there front foot were not the top of there shoping list. Even Duran who was smart He struggled to get hold off.At any stage of His career, Jones had respecable power He could whack hard enougth to earn respect from anyone. Style wise Jones would be Marvins worst nightmare, Id lean towards Jones. I dont always go with the old school ;D.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Certainly wasn't. BUT definitley slower than Jones.

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Thats what I was getting at. Its all relative, Jones has made some quick guys look very slow.

And of the Fab 4, I would give the best shot at Jones to Hearns. Hearns/Jones would be a toss up, I like Jones' speed and ring generalship but Hearns was obviously very quick and very powerful.

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Certainly wasn't. BUT definitley slower than Jones.

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Thats what I was getting at. Its all relative, Jones has made some quick guys look very slow.

And of the Fab 4, I would give the best shot at Jones to Hearns. Hearns/Jones would be a toss up, I like Jones' speed and ring generalship but Hearns was obviously very quick and very powerful.

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I think that Jones' skill would be too much for Hearns and I'd expect Roy to KO Hearns in middle rounds because he would know he couldn't risk going the distance with his sledgehammer hands.

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Originally Posted by GAME

Of the famous 4 Hagler would have probably had the best chance vs Jones . Hagler was great and cutting the ring down and making it his type of fight.

Ray was over the hill and moving up in weight when he outboxed Hagler so I think prime Roy would have done a similar job atleast

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That's a myth that Ray was over the hill. Ray was two years younger and had not been thought the wars. Watch that video and see how well Hagler moved in his younger years, even when he fought Duran was on at the beginning of downside.

The version of Hagler that fought Minter, the first Hamsho fight, the second Antoufurmo fight, that was the prime Hagler. That version of Hagler would have given Jones a lot of trouble and made a great fight. Prime Hagler could make you miss and counter punch. He would pressure you, then when you tried to fire back and counter, he would slip and counter himself. He would have had the ability to check Jones's chin, although he certainly wouldn't walk through Jones's punches, he could take them well enough to land his own.

I can see Jones winning on points, for sure, I can also see Hagler KO'ing him. Prime Hagler was WAY faster than Glen Johnson or Montell Griffin (who was making a decent fight before the DQ).

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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Fanboyism at its worst im affraid :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

But also too slow.

Roy would make it a stinkfest and take the decision.

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Hagler too slow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwgF0Z981A

I take it you have never seen a prime Hagler just watch him in 1980.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8

Hagler was not prime against Hearns or Leonard.

Hagler slow? jeeez bageebs.

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Certainly wasn't. BUT definitley slower than Jones.

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Hagler had much better footwork and was alwas on his toes.

Im talking prime 77-82-3.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Got to agree that Hagler would defintley not look silly. He is one of the greatest middleweights of all time and no-one could make him look silly.

Ive got to say though even though I know Hearns could really punch I think that a middleweight Roy Jones hit as hard as a middleweight Hearns.

I put Roy Jones by KO, but I meant Roy Jones by decision. can someone reset the poll so I can straighten it out.

which hagler? the mediocre hagler of Vito 1, Duran and Leonard?
or the great hagler of Minter and Hearns?

prime v prime. I know its a bit hard because Roy peaked in the higher weightclasses.

Marvin has a similar style to that of Glenn Johnson, only with more speed and accuracy.

Ideal guy to beat Jones at Middle.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Marvin has a similar style to that of Glenn Johnson, only with more speed and accuracy.

Ideal guy to beat Jones at Middle.

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I don't really see the comparison of Hagler and Johnson, at least not with Hagler's usual style, but I suppose if he fights Jones like he did Hearns (which I said earlier might be the best game plan), then yeah, there's some similarities since Hagler will be up close on Jones and swarming.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Don't mind Taeth it is not that he swings from Roys nuts it is just that he drinks heavily before posting:D

No one makes Hagler look silly....NO ONE!...That is not to say he could not lose so before you go on a tangent Taeth read the post 4 or 5 times and let it sink in during an episode of Jeopardy before reacting.....

Point is Hagler was too skilled to just be dominated

guys get off of hagler ok?

Don't let just because he is old school cloud your judgement.

People forget how much of a monster Roy was at 168 and how hard he hit and 168 seemed to be more of a natural weight for him.

Now Roy wouldn't stop Hagler, hagler had too good of a chin, but Roy would have outboxed him on his way to a decision.

Roy was extremely freakishly good and powerful at super middleweight.

it befuddles me to no end how people would say that Hagler would have knocked out Roy Jones at super mid.


I see people saying we are talking primes.


If we are talking primes then Roy wins no question and isn't getting knocked out.


If we are talking prime for prime then you can't use Glen Johnson, or tarver.

And the only person who gave Jones trouble was Montell Griffin and Hagler doesn't fight that kind of style.

Stylistically Jones would have been a nightmare for Hagler.

Prime for Prime so I guess we are talking about Roy from the moment he beat James Toney to about 2 fights before Ruiz.

Which Hagler are we talking about?

My question is, if we are talking about primes here, then why is the Johnson or the Tarver fight relevant?

Don't let the fact that Hagler is old school cloud YOUR judgement. Hagler from 78-82. Again, think Roy wins this one by decision, probably 8 rounds to 4.

I don't think stylistically Jones is a nightmare for Hagler. Jones is a stylistic nightmare for a counterpuncher like James Toney or a one-dimensional slugger like Thomas Tate. Or a plodding, slow pressure fighter like Clinton Woods. I think people are saying that based on the Leonard fight, and by that point, Hagler's legs were old and he had become far more one dimensional.

Jones never fought anybody like Hagler in his prime, the combo of power, speed, determination, and skill. The closest, in terms of talent he got was probably Toney, and Toney was much different style than Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

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But also too slow.

Roy would make it a stinkfest and take the decision.

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Hagler too slow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofwgF0Z981A

I take it you have never seen a prime Hagler just watch him in 1980.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8

Hagler was not prime against Hearns or Leonard.

Hagler slow? jeeez bageebs.

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Congratulations you just owned that poster.

Hagler too slow - you can tell the people that only have knowledge of the SRL fight.;D

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Don't let the fact that Hagler is old school cloud YOUR judgement. Hagler from 78-82. Again, think Roy wins this one by decision, probably 8 rounds to 4.

I don't think stylistically Jones is a nightmare for Hagler. Jones is a stylistic nightmare for a counterpuncher like James Toney or a one-dimensional slugger like Thomas Tate. Or a plodding, slow pressure fighter like Clinton Woods. I think people are saying that based on the Leonard fight, and by that point, Hagler's legs were old and he had become far more one dimensional.

Jones never fought anybody like Hagler in his prime, the combo of power, speed, determination, and skill. The closest, in terms of talent he got was probably Toney, and Toney was much different style than Hagler.

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This is a good post

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Originally Posted by Markusdarkus

Hagler too much pressure to much chin and heart.

The Hagler of 78-83 would knock Jones out the Hagler that fought Hearns and Leonard would lose a close dec to Roy.

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Just my opinion but Hagler would have blistered his ass and frankly I think Hearns would too. Leonard in his prime was a lot smaller than Jones (who dominated at 168-75) so I think Leonard would have been overwhelmed.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Quit hagging from Roy's nuts? How about you quit hanging from the 80's nuts, and get a functioning brian while you are at at. Leonard didn't admit honestly that he couldn't beat Hagler, only in jest, or else he would have never taken the bout. He had no reason to go back into the ring. Anybody that says Ray just stole the last 30 seocnds is stupid and didn't watch the fight. Stop listening to commentators and watch fights for yourself.

As for Hearns having more power then Jones I am calling bullshit right now. P4P at 147 Hearns did, but not in literal comparison, first of all Emanuel Steward said that Hearns didn't actually hit that hard, but he was sneaky with that right hand. Whereas Roy had pure power, he ko'ed 21 of his first 22 opponents, he stopped a lot of tough guys who had never been stopped before Melinga. He landed maybe the hardest shot ever landed below cruiserweight with that right hand to the ribs against Hill... Hill had never been stopped before that punch rocked him. Look what Roy did to Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa... the list goes on.

Roy may have not had the best competition of any fighter ever, but he took out plenty of guys that had among the best chins in the sport when they fought, all the way up to 175. Hell, Roy went up to heavyweight and stunned Ruiz with one of his right hands. I am not even saying that he would have knocked out Hagler, but Hagler wouldn't have been able to walk through Roy shots like it was a day in the park.

Look at Roy against James Toney who came forward during that fight when he could, WHo has had a better chin then James Toney? Probably nobody. Roy couldn't hurt him either, but Roy got to James a few times with body shots, he was able to stay away from Toney all night long, and the few punches James did land, Roy took them quite easily.

Hagler is a great fighter, but Roy is too fast, and too big for him. Roy is a way better fighter on his back foot then Hearns ever was, and he was a way bigger guy that hit harder p4p then Leonard, and also quicker at middleweight/SMW then Ray was. Roy was also great against southpaws.

Also people that are arguing that Hagler was a different fighter when he was younger. Well that would have helped Roy out more, Hagler liked to box a lot more in his prime when his only chance against Roy would be to come with relentless pressure, however Hagler was still a counter puncher in his prime even when coming forward, and there is no way you could fight that way against Roy. Roy was way too fast for Hagler to fight in that style. Hagler tried to fighting that way against Duran and that made that fight a lot closer than it could have been because Duran was faster, and a better boxer then Hagler, it cost Hagler against Leonard early when he tried to outbox him.

James Toney was a great fighter at coming forward and countering, in a fight much closer, but similar to Chavez-Taylor, James Toney had been landing hard right hands against the supremely gifted Michael Nunn all night, until he turned it up late, and Nunn succumbed to the pressure and Toney's power. Toney came forward trying to let Roy lead, and Roy was too fast for TOney to react.

Now you can compare overall, all you want of Hagler to TOney, but Toney is way up there in terms of the best middleweights ever, easily in the top 15 or 20(this being the deepest divison ever IMO). Anyways TOney regardless of his lower rank was faster, had a same caliber of chin, and was a better counter punch then Hagler. He was also harder to hit, but Roy was too elusive, too good at moving, too good at countering. Nobody could counter like ROy and it catches everyone off guard.

Thats why I think Hearns has a better chance against Roy because he would use the range which Roy showed that he was less comfortable in dealing with when he faced Hopkins and Griffin.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Hagler would have been made to look foolish, He wasn't quick enough. Roy was a lot faster and sharper then the Leonard who fought Hagler(who hadn't foughten in 3 years) and much bigger. Hagler would have had so much difficulty catching Roy because even with his iron chin he would not be able to just walk through Roy's shots. Roy Jones Jr fight similar to how he always did, move around and when the opponent closed the gap he would overwhelm Hagler in this case with speed and power. Roy was far more adept at doing this and not getting hit then Leonard or anybody else has ever been.

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We are talking primes here. Stop swinging from Roy's nuts. You can't base your judgement of Hagler on the Leonard, Mugabi, or Hearns fight, except to know that if Hagler could take a flush shot from Hearns on the chin, recover, and come back strong, he would have the chin to keep him in the game with Jones. Even you can't deny that Hearns had more one-punch power than Jones. Also, consider the reasons why Hagler lost the fight to Ray. He gave away early rounds and let Ray steal rounds in the last 30 seconds. Ray ran and pitty-patted. Out of his own mouth, Leonard admitted that he knew he couldn't beat Hagler, so he set up a plan to steal the fight, and he executed it perfectely, assisted by Hagler fighting arrogant and stupid for the first half.

The younger version of Hagler did not always fight he same way. The younger version could move and counterpunch. The younger version had much better foot speed. He had all the tools to give Jones the fight of his life.

I actually voted for Jones UD, but it would not be a wide margin and Hagler would not look silly.

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Quit hagging from Roy's nuts? How about you quit hanging from the 80's nuts, and get a functioning brian while you are at at. Leonard didn't admit honestly that he couldn't beat Hagler, only in jest, or else he would have never taken the bout. He had no reason to go back into the ring. Anybody that says Ray just stole the last 30 seocnds is stupid and didn't watch the fight. Stop listening to commentators and watch fights for yourself.

As for Hearns having more power then Jones I am calling bullshit right now. P4P at 147 Hearns did, but not in literal comparison, first of all Emanuel Steward said that Hearns didn't actually hit that hard, but he was sneaky with that right hand. Whereas Roy had pure power, he ko'ed 21 of his first 22 opponents, he stopped a lot of tough guys who had never been stopped before Melinga. He landed maybe the hardest shot ever landed below cruiserweight with that right hand to the ribs against Hill... Hill had never been stopped before that punch rocked him. Look what Roy did to Reggie Johnson, Merqui Sosa... the list goes on.

Roy may have not had the best competition of any fighter ever, but he took out plenty of guys that had among the best chins in the sport when they fought, all the way up to 175. Hell, Roy went up to heavyweight and stunned Ruiz with one of his right hands. I am not even saying that he would have knocked out Hagler, but Hagler wouldn't have been able to walk through Roy shots like it was a day in the park.

Look at Roy against James Toney who came forward during that fight when he could, WHo has had a better chin then James Toney? Probably nobody. Roy couldn't hurt him either, but Roy got to James a few times with body shots, he was able to stay away from Toney all night long, and the few punches James did land, Roy took them quite easily.

Hagler is a great fighter, but Roy is too fast, and too big for him. Roy is a way better fighter on his back foot then Hearns ever was, and he was a way bigger guy that hit harder p4p then Leonard, and also quicker at middleweight/SMW then Ray was. Roy was also great against southpaws.

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Listen, T-Bag, I ain't hanging from the 80's nuts, but to say that Roy would make Hagler look silly was a stupid thing to say. Stop judging Hagler on his last 5 fights, unless you want me to judge Jones by the Tarver and Glen Johnson fights.

As for Jones "pure power," what the hell do thing Hagler would have done with Tate, Sosa, Reggie Johnson, and Malinga, and old ass-Pazienza? Or the series of bums he fought for the first 20 fights.

I've repeatedly said that that I would pick Roy on points in this one. Hagler, even with is his being the smaller man, in his prime, is better than anybody Jones ever fought, James Toney included, and I'm about as a big a James Toney fan as you will find. Deal with it.