What a great technical fight and Marquez with his skills and heart did what he does best. GReat great fight
Printable View
What a great technical fight and Marquez with his skills and heart did what he does best. GReat great fight
Juan Manuel Marquez took some big left hands from Joel Casamayor and never looked like going down so the future looks great for Marquez at Lightweight great performance from Marquez i had Marquez up 6-4 going into the 11th.
Marquez fought a great fight and I didn't see that ko comming at all, but I guess even the greatest of chins crumbles after getting pounded that much. I 'd love to see pac-jmm 3, even though I don't think we'd have a clear winner this time either...
You don't get that very often. Two great technical boxers delivering a very entertaining fight even a brawler lover could get into.
JMM hasnt got the typical Mexican ROCK chin , but really is proving he is a fantastic fighter.
I dont think Marquez could prove he is the greatest of this era vs Casa but he performed well last night
All he beat was a 36 yr old past it Joel Casamayor who got heavily outboxed by Santa Cruz and was getting beat by the one-dimensional Michael Katsidis until he threw one luckyshot which knocked Katsidis out. Of course it was a good achievement but stop overrating JMM. Let's remember he got knocked down 4 times in 2 fights with Pac and Barrera IMO beat JMM and Marquez got floored in that fight too.
I always have issues with "the greatest" tag. He's certainly a quality fighter with a very good resume. No doubt about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
If JMM can continue on this path of wining and close out his career in style he would have def. sealed that he is on par with "Finito" Lopez, Roman, Sanchez & Canto as the greatest tactical fighters that Mexico has produced.
Anyone who can't see how JMM voids and nullifies his opponents as fights go on is fucken blind.
Look I'm not a PBF fan but it's clear to see his greatness when he's counterpunching and fighting on the defensive.
It's the way the cookie crumbles lefty.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Fighters have for hundreds of years done this where age among other things factors in.
How many times in the past and today are fighters labeled past it and then they pull a rabbit out of a hat and win?
I'm a huge fan of Erik but if your gonna use that old criteria here then the same can be said for when Erik beat Zaragoza.
I think your talking from a fan point of view to which your not certain on the entire career of the fighters your just speaking from what you've seen recently. Just know that theres more then then meets the eye.
JMM won fair and square early in the fight Casa fought well but the superior fighter prevailed.
You say Casa threw a lucky shot, well luck is part of the game also and it's not ilegal in prizefighting. If were not couting lucky shots that win fights you know how many fights would be void because of a lucky shot?
A good achievement?Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Are you kidding me lefty?
JMM just joined the exclusive club of being a 3 division champ along with Julio C. Chavez, Erik Morales & Marco A. Barrera. (As far as Mexican fighters go)
I would say that's more then good that is brilliant.
Overrating JMM come on man if it's one thing JMM isn't that's overrated. For many years he was underrated and overshadowed by the big supertars now late in his career he's finally getting the long overdue respect he deserves by the masses.
You are right he hit the canvas 3 times in 1 round but it also means he got up 3 times and quite possibly amounted thee greatest comeback in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Pacs power was superior and it will always be superior vs. almost anyone Pac fights against. But if it's easy to see how great JMM was able to box and at times make Pac look completely out of his game.
I love these matchups and have learned to love and respect fighters like Pac and MAB whom I wasn't big fans of but as I've matured as a fan I realize that matchups like this is what will forever have me as a fan. These Erik, MAB, JMM, Naz, Pac matchups although years apart are just fantastic and I've had an opp. to meet them all minus Naz and Pac (hopefully next month I'll meet Pac).
All in all lefty, I think your a cool kid but this time you clearly talked out of your arse... ;D
I am not huge on JMM and I should be ;D Last nights fight was a great fight. And for the record, the stoppage was fair after reviewing the replay. Casa did not protest which is a clear indication most of the time that the figher was pretty much done.
does anybody think that JMM could become mexico's first 4 division champ now, could he go up to 140 and defeat one of the current champs as it is a weak division, he could just go up after a few fights at 135 to take on someone like holt or bradley and get that 4th weight title without too much difficulty, also theres a chance especially if pac fights hatton after DLh that their 3rd fight could happen at that weight
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickIt's the way the cookie crumbles lefty.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Fighters have for hundreds of years done this where age among other things factors in.
How many times in the past and today are fighters labeled past it and then they pull a rabbit out of a hat and win?
I'm a huge fan of Erik but if your gonna use that old criteria here then the same can be said for when Erik beat Zaragoza.
I think your talking from a fan point of view to which your not certain on the entire career of the fighters your just speaking from what you've seen recently. Just know that theres more then then meets the eye.
JMM won fair and square early in the fight Casa fought well but the superior fighter prevailed.
You say Casa threw a lucky shot, well luck is part of the game also and it's not ilegal in prizefighting. If were not couting lucky shots that win fights you know how many fights would be void because of a lucky shot?
A good achievement?Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Are you kidding me lefty?
JMM just joined the exclusive club of being a 3 division champ along with Julio C. Chavez, Erik Morales & Marco A. Barrera. (As far as Mexican fighters go)
I would say that's more then good that is brilliant.
Overrating JMM come on man if it's one thing JMM isn't that's overrated. For many years he was underrated and overshadowed by the big supertars now late in his career he's finally getting the long overdue respect he deserves by the masses.
You are right he hit the canvas 3 times in 1 round but it also means he got up 3 times and quite possibly amounted thee greatest comeback in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Pacs power was superior and it will always be superior vs. almost anyone Pac fights against. But if it's easy to see how great JMM was able to box and at times make Pac look completely out of his game.
I love these matchups and have learned to love and respect fighters like Pac and MAB whom I wasn't big fans of but as I've matured as a fan I realize that matchups like this is what will forever have me as a fan. These Erik, MAB, JMM, Naz, Pac matchups although years apart are just fantastic and I've had an opp. to meet them all minus Naz and Pac (hopefully next month I'll meet Pac).
All in all lefty, I think your a cool kid but this time you clearly talked out of your arse... ;D
you do ?!?!?! :headscratch:
Yea he was knocked down but at least he was not knocked out like Eric and Mab so i think that says somthing about JMM dont you dude.
Brilliant post kid :appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
I think JMM himself and his team should def. look at the big picture here and should def. consider taking a step to 140 and go for that 4th title it would fucken be magnificent for JMM.
As they say good things come to those who wait and JMM has had a lot of major set backs but looking at it now it looks like it was well worth the long trip.
I think they should go after the 4th title and just fly past Erik & MAB who for the better part had all the attention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickBrilliant post kid :appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
I think JMM himself and his team should def. look at the big picture here and should def. consider taking a step to 140 and go for that 4th title it would fucken be magnificent for JMM.
As they say good things come to those who wait and JMM has had a lot of major set backs but looking at it now it looks like it was well worth the long trip.
I think they should go after the 4th title and just fly past Erik & MAB who for the better part had all the attention.
ye i think time is of the essence though to some extent , JMM is what 35 now ? he shouldnt make the same mistake that Erik made of going for that 4th division title when his shot as fook
Which is why he should just gun for it now that he has everything going for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickBrilliant post kid :appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
I think JMM himself and his team should def. look at the big picture here and should def. consider taking a step to 140 and go for that 4th title it would fucken be magnificent for JMM.
As they say good things come to those who wait and JMM has had a lot of major set backs but looking at it now it looks like it was well worth the long trip.
I think they should go after the 4th title and just fly past Erik & MAB who for the better part had all the attention.
ye i think time is of the essence though to some extent , JMM is what 35 now ? he shouldnt make the same mistake that Erik made of going for that 4th division title when his shot as fook
straight away? id like to see him face cambell first as i think he , like casamayor is ready to be taken, Guzmans little antics have just given him a stay of execution,
that way he could be undisputed 135lb champ and only the 4th ( i think) fighter (and also first mexican) to simultaniously hold all 4 alphabet titles and hell also have the ring belt,
then go up to 140 claim a belt their from as i said someone like holt, kotelnik, bradley or even someone like ngodjuio (sp) depending on how the division looks at that point , face pac in a 3rd fight there and then call it a career
Great win for JMM, I knew he'd do it. Looking at casa past two fights katsidis where he nearly got ktfo of the ring and robbing santa cruz. Santa cruz and katsidis are no where near as good as jmm, casa fought well though but jmm is just better at this stage of their career atleast.
I don't think its fair to call JMM the greatest in this era just cause of a win over casa, sure casa has not been k'oed before and jmm was coming up in weight. I still have the title tied between marco and eric, and reserving a spot for margarito. Im proud for jmm though he finished off casa and we dont have to go over who really won if it went to a decision.
A few more good wins for jmm he surely will have a huge case for that title, for now I still think margarito is ahead. Tony beating undefeated young cotto is a lot bigger then beating old casamayor. The way they won are both ko's but tony didn't just land a suprise 1 punch, he totally beat cotto down.
eric did win that forth title though.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickBrilliant post kid :appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhatton
I think JMM himself and his team should def. look at the big picture here and should def. consider taking a step to 140 and go for that 4th title it would fucken be magnificent for JMM.
As they say good things come to those who wait and JMM has had a lot of major set backs but looking at it now it looks like it was well worth the long trip.
I think they should go after the 4th title and just fly past Erik & MAB who for the better part had all the attention.
ye i think time is of the essence though to some extent , JMM is what 35 now ? he shouldnt make the same mistake that Erik made of going for that 4th division title when his shot as fook
not as far as the record books are concerned :-\
Juan Manuel Marquez vs Ricky Hatton no offense to you HitmanHatton but i think your boy will KO'ed he leaves himself wide open when he lunges in and Juan Manuel Marquez makes you pay hard with those counter shots as Joel Casamayor found out and like so many opponents have.
none taken, your probably right Hatton is on the slide, although the way Hatton tends to hit and hold now may make it akward for JMM to counter him , im not too sure how it would play out to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
hatton is also another champ waiting to be taken out, jmm should go after him. I really think he can beat any champ at 140 as well as pac. Jmm can really accomplish a lot and his time is now. Theres champs around him and pac that are all waiting to be taken out. Even oscar is vulderable, i wouldnt' be suprise if pac is too fast for oscar and win a ud. Hell jmm can prolly pull of a win over oscar too at 147. I hope pac and jmm last final fight are between eachother. That would be huge!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
plus i think Mexico is finally giving jmm the support he has always deserve, it should motivate jmm a lot more cause he is at where he has always wanted to be. Whateve happens though i think pac and jmm will collide once again.
I'm not talking out my ass. You're overhyping JMM.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickIt's the way the cookie crumbles lefty.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Fighters have for hundreds of years done this where age among other things factors in.
How many times in the past and today are fighters labeled past it and then they pull a rabbit out of a hat and win?
I'm a huge fan of Erik but if your gonna use that old criteria here then the same can be said for when Erik beat Zaragoza.
I think your talking from a fan point of view to which your not certain on the entire career of the fighters your just speaking from what you've seen recently. Just know that theres more then then meets the eye.
JMM won fair and square early in the fight Casa fought well but the superior fighter prevailed.
You say Casa threw a lucky shot, well luck is part of the game also and it's not ilegal in prizefighting. If were not couting lucky shots that win fights you know how many fights would be void because of a lucky shot?
Just like Casa did against Katsidis. He threw a left hook he'll never throw again in his career. Look at Antonio Tarver v Roy Jones. Tarver threw a one hit wonder shot. Come on now. Even you know that Casamayor was definitely shot. He looked so old against Katsidis bar the 2 flash knockdowns he scored and the fluky left hook.
A good achievement?Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Are you kidding me lefty?
JMM just joined the exclusive club of being a 3 division champ along with Julio C. Chavez, Erik Morales & Marco A. Barrera. (As far as Mexican fighters go)
I would say that's more then good that is brilliant.
Overrating JMM come on man if it's one thing JMM isn't that's overrated. For many years he was underrated and overshadowed by the big supertars now late in his career he's finally getting the long overdue respect he deserves by the masses.
JMM is a great fighter with suberb skills and yes it was a good achievement beating Casamayor but it was nothing more than good based on how Casamayor was at the time. And many felt he never got the decision against Barrera and if it weren't for fukked up scoring by the judge in the first Pac bout Marquez would have another loss on his resume.
You are right he hit the canvas 3 times in 1 round but it also means he got up 3 times and quite possibly amounted thee greatest comeback in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Pacs power was superior and it will always be superior vs. almost anyone Pac fights against. But if it's easy to see how great JMM was able to box and at times make Pac look completely out of his game.
I love these matchups and have learned to love and respect fighters like Pac and MAB whom I wasn't big fans of but as I've matured as a fan I realize that matchups like this is what will forever have me as a fan. These Erik, MAB, JMM, Naz, Pac matchups although years apart are just fantastic and I've had an opp. to meet them all minus Naz and Pac (hopefully next month I'll meet Pac).
They're great matchups, I agree with you on that. But come on Mick. All JMM done was beat Joel Casamayor. And now your implying he's on a new level all of a sudden. Pathetic. He'll stay were he is in the P4P rankings. And the fact Marquez was the heavy favourite before the fight against the naturally bigger guy and the champion in Casamayor just shows how good Casamayor is/was right there with the odds.
All in all lefty, I think your a cool kid but this time you clearly talked out of your arse... ;D
Hatton would knock him out late. Marqeuz got floored by Pac and Barrera. Hatton at 140 hits harder. Besides JMM would be moving up another weight division and Hatton has a good chin also so no way JMM would KO Hatton.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonnone taken, your probably right Hatton is on the slide, although the way Hatton tends to hit and hold now may make it akward for JMM to counter him , im not too sure how it would play out to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I don't think Ricky Hatton P4P hits harder he wears his opponents down with an accumulation of punches Ricky Hatton has never been a dangerous puncher IMO and the knockdown against Marco Antonio Barrera was a flash knockdown except Marco Antonio Barrera hit Marquez while he was on the canvas which effected Marquez more and as for Manny Pacquiao well he is Manny Pacquiao end of i think Marquez is a bad style match up for Hatton with his counter punching style and with Hatton's reckless style lately i can't see him winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeHatton would knock him out late. Marqeuz got floored by Pac and Barrera. Hatton at 140 hits harder. Besides JMM would be moving up another weight division and Hatton has a good chin also so no way JMM would KO Hatton.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonnone taken, your probably right Hatton is on the slide, although the way Hatton tends to hit and hold now may make it akward for JMM to counter him , im not too sure how it would play out to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
My personal opinion he would have beaten a prime MAB and Morales. So for me yes he is the greatest.
Lefty,Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
If Lazacano had Hatton shakin' rattling and rolling what leads you to believe that JMM can't do the same?
JMM hit's harder and is a lot more accurate then Lazcano.
Hatton would eat JMM combinations all night long.
Hatton would have to smoother JMM against the ropes but if you know JMM like I know JMM you know he wont let that happen.
I been following Casamayor since 1992. Ever since he beat Wayne McCullough for the gold medal. Iv'e followed his whole career. He'a always been a personal favorite of mine. But so has Marquez. I've watch him and his brother come up during the Great Western Forum days. So if Casamayor had to lose to someone I'm glad it was Marquez. Marquez is 35. But you can't even tell by the way he fights. He's an outstanding fighter.
I hate the way people state how Hatton was on the verge of getting KNFO by Lazcano. He got wobbled a little once. Just like he did against Juan Urango with a body shot. He didn't look close to going down though. JMM couldn't handle Hatton's pressure and bigger size. Plus Marquez ain't got a great chin, when Hatton throws his bombs Marquez will be hanging on for dear life. He won't get an easy ride with Ricky in the opposite corner. JMM hasn't faced nobody close to Ricky Hatton :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickLefty,Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
If Lazacano had Hatton shakin' rattling and rolling what leads you to believe that JMM can't do the same?
JMM hit's harder and is a lot more accurate then Lazcano.
Hatton would eat JMM combinations all night long.
Hatton would have to smoother JMM against the ropes but if you know JMM like I know JMM you know he wont let that happen.
JMM is indeed an exceptional fighter, not as great as Morales and MAB but by the time he finishes his career he could be.
in terms of overall ability and p4p greatness - a certain Marco Antonio Barrera comes to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeI hate the way people state how Hatton was on the verge of getting KNFO by Lazcano. He got wobbled a little once. Just like he did against Juan Urango with a body shot. He didn't look close to going down though. JMM couldn't handle Hatton's pressure and bigger size. Plus Marquez ain't got a great chin, when Hatton throws his bombs Marquez will be hanging on for dear life. He won't get an easy ride with Ricky in the opposite corner. JMM hasn't faced nobody close to Ricky Hatton :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickLefty,Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
If Lazacano had Hatton shakin' rattling and rolling what leads you to believe that JMM can't do the same?
JMM hit's harder and is a lot more accurate then Lazcano.
Hatton would eat JMM combinations all night long.
Hatton would have to smoother JMM against the ropes but if you know JMM like I know JMM you know he wont let that happen.
and also with power i would say Pacquaio p4p hits a lot harder with individual shots than hatton does
Barrera is still by far the best of our era IMO. He had way more tread on his tires when he fought Marquez to a near draw IMO, and Barrera won the trilogy against Morrales.
I meant style wise. Hatton will be in Marquez's face from the first bell up until the last. He is a swarmer and won't give Marquez any room and will make him feel very uncomfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonin terms of overall ability and p4p greatness - a certain Marco Antonio Barrera comes to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeI hate the way people state how Hatton was on the verge of getting KNFO by Lazcano. He got wobbled a little once. Just like he did against Juan Urango with a body shot. He didn't look close to going down though. JMM couldn't handle Hatton's pressure and bigger size. Plus Marquez ain't got a great chin, when Hatton throws his bombs Marquez will be hanging on for dear life. He won't get an easy ride with Ricky in the opposite corner. JMM hasn't faced nobody close to Ricky Hatton :)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
and also with power i would say Pacquaio p4p hits a lot harder with individual shots than hatton does
I think if Juan Manuel Marquez faces Juan Diaz it will give us a better view of how Hatton vs Marquez would go.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyleeI meant style wise. Hatton will be in Marquez's face from the first bell up until the last. He is a swarmer and won't give Marquez any room and will make him feel very uncomfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonin terms of overall ability and p4p greatness - a certain Marco Antonio Barrera comes to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
and also with power i would say Pacquaio p4p hits a lot harder with individual shots than hatton does
Marquez would have a field day with Hatton and his lunging left hook.
no shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
no shit..Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
so would 20 other 135-147 fighter
A little...Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Ok, I'll give you that one. If you wanna say a little.
Once....
You've gotta be joking? I know your a Hatton fan and all but don't get blinded kid.
Off the top of my head I'd be willing to bet you ALL of my Rep points vs. ALL of your Rep points that is was more then once?
You wanna bet?
Here I'll leave you a google link so you can look it up before you answer me: Google
Let me know if the bet is on. :)