I'm gonna piss people off but here's the word on Berto...

He is the next Jeff Lacy... (not sylistically but career wise)

He seriously meats the ELITE and he gets exposed...

Is he skilled? Yes.

Someone said in another thread he has the potential to be as good as Floyd... Floyd at 12 fights was better then this kid.

Anyway, I thought that statement was crazy!

I also think that if Forbes hadn't been a career sparring partner he'd have a better shot cuz he has the goods..

Berto will beat him with sheer output... Forbes will box his ears off but Berto will land more leather...

UD Berto but whatever...

He'll get exposed soon enough:rolleyes:

You're really not a fan are you ;D

He's being insanely overrated by a small few because of his speed.

I don't know how far he'll go honestly, some of it will depend on his chin since he's not a Winky/BHop/Floyd type of unhittable guy.

when i watched jeff lacy fought to me he only had power and thats it. but berto on the other hand has power speed a defense that is improving i dont know too much about his chin yet but he will get tested next year. but as of now he seems like a decent fighter to me and one of my favorites at welterweight i think since no one wants to fight paul williams berto should fight him sometime next year.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

You're really not a fan are you ;D

He's being insanely overrated by a small few because of his speed.

I don't know how far he'll go honestly, some of it will depend on his chin since he's not a Winky/BHop/Floyd type of unhittable guy.

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I actually enjoy watching him fight oddly enough but I think thats a good evaluation;)

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

when i watched jeff lacy fought to me he only had power and thats it. but berto on the other hand has power speed a defense that is improving i dont know too much about his chin yet but he will get tested next year. but as of now he seems like a decent fighter to me and one of my favorites at welterweight i think since no one wants to fight paul williams berto should fight him sometime next year.

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You know, I agree with most of what you say... I meant Lacy by the way his career has gone not the way he fights but I'd LOVE him to prove me wrong.

He's a decent fighter and I give everyone a fair shake but this over rating him is rediculous

On the broader point,I agree.Truck loads of potential,hand speed,athletisism but the one huge glaring bull waltzing in the china shop for me is,
He has faced next to no top tier adversity and zero legit top ten fighters on his way up to the Title and has yet to answer some serious questions now amongst the championship ranks that are better tackeled in the early developing stage's (can he fight backing up when they wont fall down) ?Sorry people but Cosme Rivera and David Estrada are world's apart from todays top welters.Again....he has some serious potential but he walked into his Title a little too conveniatly for me. He better buckle up Imo!

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

On the broader point,I agree.Truck loads of potential,hand speed,athletisism but the one huge glaring bull waltzing in the china shop for me is,
He has faced next to no top tier adversity and zero legit top ten fighters on his way up to the Title and has yet to answer some serious questions now amongst the championship ranks that are better tackeled in the early developing stage's.Sorry people but Cosme Rivera and David Estrada are world's apart from todays top welters.Again....he has some serious potential but he walked into his Title a little too conveniatly for me. He better buckle up Imo!

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Agree, agree and agree...

I see him ending up like a Lacy, though...

He may have the goods...

I emplore him to prove me wrong... I'd love it in fact! I wish NO fighter any ill.(well, I liked watching Vic get sparked);D

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

On the broader point,I agree.Truck loads of potential,hand speed,athletisism but the one huge glaring bull waltzing in the china shop for me is,
He has faced next to no top tier adversity and zero legit top ten fighters on his way up to the Title and has yet to answer some serious questions now amongst the championship ranks that are better tackeled in the early developing stage's.Sorry people but Cosme Rivera and David Estrada are world's apart from todays top welters.Again....he has some serious potential but he walked into his Title a little too conveniatly for me. He better buckle up Imo!

---

Agree, agree and agree...

I see him ending up like a Lacy, though...

He may have the goods...

I emplore him to prove me wrong... I'd love it in fact! I wish NO fighter any ill.(well, I liked watching Vic get sparked);D

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He better hope to have Lacy's chin.He sure as helz appears to have his publicist and hype machine ;D

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

On the broader point,I agree.Truck loads of potential,hand speed,athletisism but the one huge glaring bull waltzing in the china shop for me is,
He has faced next to no top tier adversity and zero legit top ten fighters on his way up to the Title and has yet to answer some serious questions now amongst the championship ranks that are better tackeled in the early developing stage's.Sorry people but Cosme Rivera and David Estrada are world's apart from todays top welters.Again....he has some serious potential but he walked into his Title a little too conveniatly for me. He better buckle up Imo!

---

Agree, agree and agree...

I see him ending up like a Lacy, though...

He may have the goods...

I emplore him to prove me wrong... I'd love it in fact! I wish NO fighter any ill.(well, I liked watching Vic get sparked);D

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He better hope to have Lacy's chin.He sure as helz appears to have his publicist and hype machine ;D

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True. I really want to be a fan and kind of am but Hype machines turn me off... I'm off the Haye traine aswell... (I was never on it but do hope what HE says is true)

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

On the broader point,I agree.Truck loads of potential,hand speed,athletisism but the one huge glaring bull waltzing in the china shop for me is,
He has faced next to no top tier adversity and zero legit top ten fighters on his way up to the Title and has yet to answer some serious questions now amongst the championship ranks that are better tackeled in the early developing stage's (can he fight backing up when they wont fall down) ?Sorry people but Cosme Rivera and David Estrada are world's apart from todays top welters.Again....he has some serious potential but he walked into his Title a little too conveniatly for me. He better buckle up Imo!

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I agree!!

I'm not sold on Berto yet, and even if he beats Forbes, my opinion won't change until he fights a more elite fighter, and beats him. I too think he got that belt too easily.

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Originally Posted by Diane

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

On the broader point,I agree.Truck loads of potential,hand speed,athletisism but the one huge glaring bull waltzing in the china shop for me is,
He has faced next to no top tier adversity and zero legit top ten fighters on his way up to the Title and has yet to answer some serious questions now amongst the championship ranks that are better tackeled in the early developing stage's (can he fight backing up when they wont fall down) ?Sorry people but Cosme Rivera and David Estrada are world's apart from todays top welters.Again....he has some serious potential but he walked into his Title a little too conveniatly for me. He better buckle up Imo!

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I agree!!

I'm not sold on Berto yet, and even if he beats Forbes, my opinion won't change until he fights a more elite fighter, and beats him. I too think he got that belt too easily.

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True that, First Lady!

He fought who for that belt... a pulse. Forbes is a career sparring partner, nothing more. I like forbes and wish it weren't the case but, alas...

Cool dude JT is going to come in here and start throwing Furnitue around ;D

I honestly think he has a good chance of stopping Forbes,I like Forbes,class act and decent fighter..........at Lightweight.Imo, The Oscar fight was a showcase type fight for Oscar and The Berto fight will be his "coming out party" against a past Champion,Lampley.....get your pom-poms ready :cheerleader:

Give the young man some time. He can only sink or swim. With a fighter like him only TIME will tell. If he acts like Margo and avoids Paul Williams his career may be OK.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Agree, agree and agree...

I see him ending up like a Lacy, though...

He may have the goods...

I emplore him to prove me wrong... I'd love it in fact! I wish NO fighter any ill.(well, I liked watching Vic get sparked);D

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He better hope to have Lacy's chin.He sure as helz appears to have his publicist and hype machine ;D

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True. I really want to be a fan and kind of am but Hype machines turn me off... I'm off the Haye traine aswell... (I was never on it but do hope what HE says is true)

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I like fighters that build their own hype - with their fists, in the ring.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Cool dude JT is going to come in here and start throwing Furnitue around ;D

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:lol:

When I started reading this thread, and was posting, I thought about JT too.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Cool dude JT is going to come in here and start throwing Furnitue around ;D

I honestly think he has a good chance of stopping Forbes,I like Forbes,class act and decent fighter..........at Lightweight.Imo, The Oscar fight was a showcase type fight for Oscar and The Berto fight will be his "coming out party" against a past Champion,Lampley.....get your pom-poms ready :cheerleader:

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Nah, JT's been measured of late and for the most part we agree...

JT knows where I stand with this kid.

Here it is...

He has immense potential.

He has great speed...

He has good power...

But he's faced no one.



I WANT him to prove me wrong or he will just be another Lacy... Floundering(now THAT is gonna make JT throw some furniture around;D)

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Cool dude JT is going to come in here and start throwing Furnitue around ;D

I honestly think he has a good chance of stopping Forbes,I like Forbes,class act and decent fighter..........at Lightweight.Imo, The Oscar fight was a showcase type fight for Oscar and The Berto fight will be his "coming out party" against a past Champion,Lampley.....get your pom-poms ready :cheerleader:

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Nah, JT's been measured of late and for the most part we agree...

JT knows where I stand with this kid.

Here it is...

He has immense potential.

He has great speed...

He has good power...

But he's faced no one.



I WANT him to prove me wrong or he will just be another Lacy... Floundering(now THAT is gonna make JT throw some furniture around;D)

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The great thing is that, with a belt, he'll probably get a chance to prove you wrong fairly soon. Even the gatekeepers at WW are dangerous ;D

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Originally Posted by bcollins

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

Cool dude JT is going to come in here and start throwing Furnitue around ;D

I honestly think he has a good chance of stopping Forbes,I like Forbes,class act and decent fighter..........at Lightweight.Imo, The Oscar fight was a showcase type fight for Oscar and The Berto fight will be his "coming out party" against a past Champion,Lampley.....get your pom-poms ready :cheerleader:

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Nah, JT's been measured of late and for the most part we agree...

JT knows where I stand with this kid.

Here it is...

He has immense potential.

He has great speed...

He has good power...

But he's faced no one.



I WANT him to prove me wrong or he will just be another Lacy... Floundering(now THAT is gonna make JT throw some furniture around;D)

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The great thing is that, with a belt, he'll probably get a chance to prove you wrong fairly soon. Even the gatekeepers at WW are dangerous ;D

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I know that's right!

I hope it's right...

I hope he does.

That D's been getting better but I hope he doesn't hit the Lacy wall...

Where potential and loses meet.

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Originally Posted by uwey

Give the young man some time. He can only sink or swim. With a fighter like him only TIME will tell. If he acts like Margo and avoids Paul Williams his career may be OK.

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This is very true.He deserves the chance to breakout or properly swim with the fishes ;D

I can see Tony hiding under the covers right now.Is he fighting at Middleweight as well his next time up ;D.I'd love this rematch but I believe Williams is on his way up and waving goodbye to the welter division.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

when i watched jeff lacy fought to me he only had power and thats it. but berto on the other hand has power speed a defense that is improving i dont know too much about his chin yet but he will get tested next year. but as of now he seems like a decent fighter to me and one of my favorites at welterweight i think since no one wants to fight paul williams berto should fight him sometime next year.

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You know, I agree with most of what you say... I meant Lacy by the way his career has gone not the way he fights but I'd LOVE him to prove me wrong.

He's a decent fighter and I give everyone a fair shake but this over rating him is rediculous

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No you don't. You actually want to see him get exposed. And you know it.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

when i watched jeff lacy fought to me he only had power and thats it. but berto on the other hand has power speed a defense that is improving i dont know too much about his chin yet but he will get tested next year. but as of now he seems like a decent fighter to me and one of my favorites at welterweight i think since no one wants to fight paul williams berto should fight him sometime next year.

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You know, I agree with most of what you say... I meant Lacy by the way his career has gone not the way he fights but I'd LOVE him to prove me wrong.

He's a decent fighter and I give everyone a fair shake but this over rating him is rediculous

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No you don't. You actually want to see him get exposed. And you know it.

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LOL, well I'd be OK with either but I see his skill set and think he has the ability to be a worthwhile draw... The hype pisses me off though...

So if he gets sparked, OK...

I don't expect everyone to be superman.

Even if he loses against elite... It's what he does in his comeback that will really show me who he is...

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

He is the next Jeff Lacy... (not sylistically but career wise)

He seriously meats the ELITE and he gets exposed...

Is he skilled? Yes.

Someone said in another thread he has the potential to be as good as Floyd... Floyd at 12 fights was better then this kid.

Anyway, I thought that statement was crazy!

I also think that if Forbes hadn't been a career sparring partner he'd have a better shot cuz he has the goods..

Berto will beat him with sheer output... Forbes will box his ears off but Berto will land more leather...

UD Berto but whatever...

He'll get exposed soon enough:rolleyes:

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When you become a guru of boxing I will take your advice, until then you don't really have a point, Mayweather had a lot of fights where he didn't look better then Berto. EVen in his second or third fights against Sanders or Saunders the southpaw he looked bad. I agree Mayweather is better then Berto, but who has Mayweather not been better then? Mayweather by his 12th fight has been better then any fighter that far along in their career since Ray Leonard pretty much. Roy Jones looked not all that great until he got more comfortable in the ring, and I think thats all Berto needs. Once he gets more relaxed his speed will allow him to dominate way more than he is now, even though he is dominating legit opponents quite handidly. Berto is doing fine, people are underrating him way too much. Forbes will not badly outbox him.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by bcollins

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Nah, JT's been measured of late and for the most part we agree...

JT knows where I stand with this kid.

Here it is...

He has immense potential.

He has great speed...

He has good power...

But he's faced no one.



I WANT him to prove me wrong or he will just be another Lacy... Floundering(now THAT is gonna make JT throw some furniture around;D)

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The great thing is that, with a belt, he'll probably get a chance to prove you wrong fairly soon. Even the gatekeepers at WW are dangerous ;D

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I know that's right!

I hope it's right...

I hope he does.

That D's been getting better but I hope he doesn't hit the Lacy wall...

Where potential and loses meet.

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He is totally different then Lacy, When Lacy was meeting the same caliber fighters that Berto is now, he was having tough grueling fights, where his superior athleticism was winning out for him, but he was getting hit a lot, he was in control, but not dominating fights. Berto has been dominating every fight he has been in, he hasn't even had to switch gears or really put forth his best effort. We haven't even seen half the stuff he is capable off, he has the best handspeed at WW, he has great footspeed that he doens't always use, and he can throw combinations very, very well. Just give him time to calm down a little in the ring.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by bcollins

The great thing is that, with a belt, he'll probably get a chance to prove you wrong fairly soon. Even the gatekeepers at WW are dangerous ;D

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I know that's right!

I hope it's right...

I hope he does.

That D's been getting better but I hope he doesn't hit the Lacy wall...

Where potential and loses meet.

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He is totally different then Lacy, When Lacy was meeting the same caliber fighters that Berto is now, he was having tough grueling fights, where his superior athleticism was winning out for him, but he was getting hit a lot, he was in control, but not dominating fights. Berto has been dominating every fight he has been in, he hasn't even had to switch gears or really put forth his best effort. We haven't even seen half the stuff he is capable off, he has the best handspeed at WW, he has great footspeed that he doens't always use, and he can throw combinations very, very well. Just give him time to calm down a little in the ring.

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Teath, read my first thread... I said career wise that's where I think he'll end up... I think that the way they fight is two different worlds.

But other then not reding my post...

You're right!

I did read your post, but what I am saying is, there were bread crumbs signaling his cataclysmic failure all along in Lacy's career that we were all to blind to see until it was too late. Berto has none of those bread crumbs, not because of style, but because he is way better then Lacy, he hits harder p4p, he as fast with his hands as anyone who has ever foughten, he is getting difficult to hit, he is a big strong guy, and he moves well when he does it. Where Lacy didn't take use of his handspeed or athleticism, instead he would just throw haymakers, and hope he could stop his opponent, Berto is following a jab, working on his fundamentals, improving each fight, and he is learning how to truly use his speed to set up opponents with it, I would like him to change tempo a little bit more, but once he starts throw slower punches to lull opponents into false security from time to time he will be an offensive monster we will not seen since Roy Jones was in his prime, we won't ever see the same evasive skills, but offensively Berto could easily become a legend.

I said he had the potential to be as good! That doesn't mean I think he will be as good as Floyd. If Roger or Floyd Sr trained him now for a couple of years I could see him beating the rest of the division. His defence alone has improved ten fold over the last 5 fights or so and his speed and skill have always been evident. One thing I would already give him over Floyd is punch power!

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

He is the next Jeff Lacy... (not sylistically but career wise)

He seriously meats the ELITE and he gets exposed...

Is he skilled? Yes.

Someone said in another thread he has the potential to be as good as Floyd... Floyd at 12 fights was better then this kid.

Anyway, I thought that statement was crazy!

I also think that if Forbes hadn't been a career sparring partner he'd have a better shot cuz he has the goods..

Berto will beat him with sheer output... Forbes will box his ears off but Berto will land more leather...

UD Berto but whatever...

He'll get exposed soon enough:rolleyes:

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Did you mean to use 'meats' instead of 'meets'.... ? Just wondering.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

I said he had the potential to be as good! That doesn't mean I think he will be as good as Floyd. If Roger or Floyd Sr trained him now for a couple of years I could see him beating the rest of the division. His defence alone has improved ten fold over the last 5 fights or so and his speed and skill have always been evident. One thing I would already give him over Floyd is punch power!

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....it's easy to look good vs the guys Berto has fought

Jeff Lacy was always one dimensional and he struggled against decent opposition like Sheika, Vanderpool, even before the Calzaghe fight. There were big cracks in his game........

Where as Andre Berto is a much more well rouned fighter he has a good jab and can box at mid range, and he can also come forward and put good effective pressure on with lightning quick combinations............

He may be somewhat overrated but theres no way he ends up like Lacy, i think he can hang with most of the top Welterweights, even if he loses he will give a good account of himself...........

I just think he needs to tighten up his defense a little and not get wild which he has done quite alot. But one problel i do see is that i don't think he is really going to get any better, he hasn't showed me any real improvements like Mayweather, Cotto, did in there early fights............

They say when a fighter wins a world title it automatically makes them a 25 percent better fighter or something like that, lets see if he can show us anything new against Forbes who is a decent test although not the fight i wanted to see. I want to see Collazo vs Berto now if Berto could win that fight that would tell me for certain he is elite.

I totally agree.

He is young talented fighter but his level of competition even in his title figtht have been poor.

Forbes will pose him problems with his boxing skills but is too small.

Lets see what happens to Berto if he fights Margarito or Williams, etc.

....let's see him fight a puncher or better yet a boxer who can take his punch a la Forbes whom is a tiny guy but if he has enough of a workrate he's going to really frustrate Berto

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

I said he had the potential to be as good! That doesn't mean I think he will be as good as Floyd. If Roger or Floyd Sr trained him now for a couple of years I could see him beating the rest of the division. His defence alone has improved ten fold over the last 5 fights or so and his speed and skill have always been evident. One thing I would already give him over Floyd is punch power!

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....it's easy to look good vs the guys Berto has fought

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Yeah but nobody fights elite fighters straight away. It's something that you build up to. Look at Ricky Hatton. He had 38 fights before he faced an elite opponent.

I like what I've seen of Berto so far and I honestly do think he is bursting with potential and if that potential is handled correctly then I think he can become a superstar of boxing.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Jeff Lacy was always one dimensional and he struggled against decent opposition like Sheika, Vanderpool, even before the Calzaghe fight. There were big cracks in his game........

Where as Andre Berto is a much more well rouned fighter he has a good jab and can box at mid range, and he can also come forward and put good effective pressure on with lightning quick combinations............

He may be somewhat overrated but theres no way he ends up like Lacy, i think he can hang with most of the top Welterweights, even if he loses he will give a good account of himself...........

I just think he needs to tighten up his defense a little and not get wild which he has done quite alot. But one problel i do see is that i don't think he is really going to get any better, he hasn't showed me any real improvements like Mayweather, Cotto, did in there early fights............

They say when a fighter wins a world title it automatically makes them a 25 percent better fighter or something like that, lets see if he can show us anything new against Forbes who is a decent test although not the fight i wanted to see. I want to see Collazo vs Berto now if Berto could win that fight that would tell me for certain he is elite.

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Well Collazo is his mandatory defence providing both win next week

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

He is the next Jeff Lacy... (not sylistically but career wise)

He seriously meats the ELITE and he gets exposed...

Is he skilled? Yes.

Someone said in another thread he has the potential to be as good as Floyd... Floyd at 12 fights was better then this kid.

Anyway, I thought that statement was crazy!

I also think that if Forbes hadn't been a career sparring partner he'd have a better shot cuz he has the goods..

Berto will beat him with sheer output... Forbes will box his ears off but Berto will land more leather...

UD Berto but whatever...

He'll get exposed soon enough:rolleyes:

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When you become a guru of boxing I will take your advice, until then you don't really have a point, Mayweather had a lot of fights where he didn't look better then Berto. EVen in his second or third fights against Sanders or Saunders the southpaw he looked bad. I agree Mayweather is better then Berto, but who has Mayweather not been better then? Mayweather by his 12th fight has been better then any fighter that far along in their career since Ray Leonard pretty much. Roy Jones looked not all that great until he got more comfortable in the ring, and I think thats all Berto needs. Once he gets more relaxed his speed will allow him to dominate way more than he is now, even though he is dominating legit opponents quite handidly. Berto is doing fine, people are underrating him way too much. Forbes will not badly outbox him.

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Yeah, when you become a guru I'll take your advice aswell...

Did you read anything I wrote? You must pick and choose what you want to see...

I stated exactly what you said in your mayweather statement above... What's your argument, guru?

and in the Forbes comment... I pick berto to outwork him... Forbes is the better boxer but Berto will put more leather on him...

Read my posts then reply...


I repeat... Read my posts before you reply...

I repeat, read my posts before you reply or you will continue to look like a moron, guru:rolleyes:

I think he's just being rushed a little too much. Once he gets that L out of the way he'll have the pressure off him to be the future of the division and he'll be great down the line. He's got all the tools (including several Lacy doesn't have like defense and speed) and he's a big-big welterweight. Almost on par with Paul Williams because he's fought at middleweight which is insane considering his speed. If he fights at or above the level of a Steve Forbes in his next few fights I think he'll be ready for someone of Miguel Cotto's caliber next year. I'm not saying he'll beat Cotto, just be prepared enough to make an interesting fight. After Forbes I really would like to see Berto step up and fight Kermit Cintron. It would be a good test to see if he can best a guy with power and decent speed, who has fought at the elite level.