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Still doubting Berto?
He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
I like Berto. He has great skills. But i think welters like Margarito, Cotto and Williams beat him
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.
The potential is there, its just will he produce when he's in with the big boys
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Beating Forbes is not the measuring stick of Berto's potential. I still have reservations about him. I wouldnt mind seeing him face Mosely, that would tell us more. Mosley probably has other plans though, and a ticking clock to beat. Maybe Clottey would be an interesting one to make, or even Cintron for the time being anyway.
Berto is looking pretty decent, but Im not quite sold yet.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Beating Forbes is not the measuring stick of Berto's potential. I still have reservations about him. I wouldnt mind seeing him face Mosely, that would tell us more. Mosley probably has other plans though, and a ticking clock to beat. Maybe Clottey would be an interesting one to make, or even Cintron for the time being anyway.
Berto is looking pretty decent, but Im not quite sold yet.
My thoughts exactly
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.
Taeth i don't know what it is with you and Andre Berto but you have to be kidding ? Berto was struggling to land flush punches for majority of the fight, and lost 4 rounds IMO. He basically won by outworking Forbes in the later rounds. And over powering the smaller Forbes who spent majority of his career at the lower weight class. Berto got countered quite alot in the fight aswell.
Berto still hasn't beaten a top Welterweight yet, he needs to fight Collazo or etc. Then we could really judge how good Berto is, im not sold on Berto yet at all. I don't think he looked that good against Forbes, the only thing that impressed me was his amazing stamina, no doubt Berto is a good talent, but lets see him against a top Welterweight first before we start overrating him.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.
I'd like to see him in with Clottey. If would give him a chance. He's clearly at legit top 5 WW at this point. Tony would kill him and I still think Cotto could neutralize his handspeed with his jab. Berto still hasn't been in with a legit top 10 WW, but I saw him really mature against Forbes. Forbes pushed him, took a few rounds, and Berton just raised it to another level. That's a good sign for him. I want Clottey/Berto with the winner to fight winner of the Cotto/Margo rematch.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.
Taeth i don't know what it is with you and Andre Berto but you have to be kidding ? Berto was struggling to land flush punches for majority of the fight, and lost 4 rounds IMO. He basically won by outworking Forbes in the later rounds. And over powering the smaller Forbes who spent majority of his career at the lower weight class. Berto got countered quite alot in the fight aswell.
Berto still hasn't beaten a top Welterweight yet, he needs to fight Collazo or etc. Then we could really judge how good Berto is, im not sold on Berto yet at all. I don't think he looked that good against Forbes, the only thing that impressed me was his amazing stamina, no doubt Berto is a good talent, but lets see him against a top Welterweight first before he start overrating him.
LOL He was landing solid punches on Forbes all night, to the body to the head... IMO it was Forbes was given more credit than he deserved in that fight. Maybe you can't keep up with his punches, I don't know, but Berto was landing clean all night. You guys might have to see guys face top competition before your satisfied, but I have Oscar beating almost everyone in the WW division, and he didn't beat Forbes even close to the same way Berto did.
I also look at the little thinks, How slick Berto is on the inside, how much better he defense was. People have been saying dumb stuff like Berto isn't a good defensive fighter, when he has been since pretty much since the knockdown. He has progressed everyfight.
The reason why I think this win is so important is this. Forbes might not be the best WW in the division, but he boxes technically better than most of the top WW. He is faster than most of the top welterweights, and he has a better chin or as good of a chin as anyone in the sport.
You guys are saying he hasn't foughten the big guys yet, but thats to come. I am not saying he is ready just yet, but he will be soon. I think you guys underestimate the importance of speed.
As of now I only see Margarito being too much for Berto without seeing how he does against Clottey, Cotto, etc.
I still don't see how any of you had Forbes winning more than the second round, he wasn't landing hardly anything, he was just eating punches, kinda reminded me of a heavyweight James Toeny... Pun not intended on the eating.
That all being said people are never willing to jump on bandwagons before its a safe bet, but Berto has consistently been proving people wrong, especially you ICT. Your opinion is your own, but in this case its wrong. I am not saying he is necessarily going to be the next p4p #1 like I could have said with MAyweather or Roy Jones Jr early on in their career, he is lacking a certain fluidity in his mobility that makes me scared that he may have the same shortcomings Mosley did. Luckily, there are no tall, skilled boxers left in the WW division except Cintron, but that fight will never happen if Berto's trainers know anything about bringing a fighter up.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.
Taeth i don't know what it is with you and Andre Berto but you have to be kidding ? Berto was struggling to land flush punches for majority of the fight, and lost 4 rounds IMO. He basically won by outworking Forbes in the later rounds. And over powering the smaller Forbes who spent majority of his career at the lower weight class. Berto got countered quite alot in the fight aswell.
Berto still hasn't beaten a top Welterweight yet, he needs to fight Collazo or etc. Then we could really judge how good Berto is, im not sold on Berto yet at all. I don't think he looked that good against Forbes, the only thing that impressed me was his amazing stamina, no doubt Berto is a good talent, but lets see him against a top Welterweight first before he start overrating him.
LOL He was landing solid punches on Forbes all night, to the body to the head... IMO it was Forbes was given more credit than he deserved in that fight. Maybe you can't keep up with his punches, I don't know, but Berto was landing clean all night. You guys might have to see guys face top competition before your satisfied, but I have Oscar beating almost everyone in the WW division, and he didn't beat Forbes even close to the same way Berto did.
I also look at the little thinks, How slick Berto is on the inside, how much better he defense was. People have been saying dumb stuff like Berto isn't a good defensive fighter, when he has been since pretty much since the knockdown. He has progressed everyfight.
The reason why I think this win is so important is this. Forbes might not be the best WW in the division, but he boxes technically better than most of the top WW. He is faster than most of the top welterweights, and he has a better chin or as good of a chin as anyone in the sport.
You guys are saying he hasn't foughten the big guys yet, but thats to come. I am not saying he is ready just yet, but he will be soon. I think you guys underestimate the importance of speed.
As of now I only see Margarito being too much for Berto without seeing how he does against Clottey, Cotto, etc.
I still don't see how any of you had Forbes winning more than the second round, he wasn't landing hardly anything, he was just eating punches, kinda reminded me of a heavyweight James Toeny... Pun not intended on the eating.
That all being said people are never willing to jump on bandwagons before its a safe bet, but Berto has consistently been proving people wrong, especially you ICT. Your opinion is your own, but in this case its wrong. I am not saying he is necessarily going to be the next p4p #1 like I could have said with MAyweather or Roy Jones Jr early on in their career, he is lacking a certain fluidity in his mobility that makes me scared that he may have the same shortcomings Mosley did. Luckily, there are no tall, skilled boxers left in the WW division except Cintron, but that fight will never happen if Berto's trainers know anything about bringing a fighter up.
Actually no he wasn't Taeth and im suprised you think that, Berto was missing alot of his punches. Especially with his famous combinations which were mostly hitting arms and gloves, or when they did land they wern't flush.
In the later rounds Berto was landing more flush especially with the uppercuts on the inside, but he basically turned the fight around. By outworking and over powering the smaller Forbes.
I had Forbes winning 4 rounds against Berto where as i had Forbes winning 3 against ODLH. So it depends on what you mean when you say Berto beat Forbes more convincing than ODLH did, by more damage ? or etc ?
Berto did look better with his defense i'll give you that, he did adjust and started slipping more punches, but i think that has more to do with. Berto throwing more punches in the later rounds, which made Forbes workrate drop heavily. Which resulted in Forbes slowing down which made it easier for Berto to slip punches.
As for your last comments i disagree on most of that Taeth, first off Forbes was landing alot of counter shots earlier on. Which were clean effective punches, and sometimes Forbes would lead with the left hook and land aswell, plus Forbes done his homework to the body.
And you say he has proved me wrong but in what exactly ? all i want to see is him fight a top Welterweight and until he does, i ain't jumping on no bandwagon. Fighting Luis Collazo or the loser of Margarito vs Clottey 2, Carlos Quintana, etc. Any of these fights would be fine.
One thing i do like about Berto is his stamina even in the 12th round against Forbes, he still had the same energy like it was the 1st round, which will serve him well against the likes of Margarito. Who i think Berto has a good chance of beating based on that.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Lol Forbes didn't land that much at all, he did counter a few times, but you see what Forbes was able to do against Oscar, he was landing that jab consistenly he was landing more than one punch in his combinations consistently. Against Berto, he was landing a few counter shots early, but even then Berto's speed put him off balance so much most of them didn't land very hard.
1. Comparing Berto and Oscar's performances: I think Berto landed better, cleaner punches against Forbes. I think he "hurt" Forbes or got his attention more than Oscar did in their fight, and he definitely got hit less then Oscar.
2. The things Berto has consistently proven you/critics wrong: You said before the fight the only reason Berto would win would be outworking Forbes, and that Steve would send Berto to school in a boxing sense. Berto outboxed Forbes except for the second round. He threw better combinations he landed more punches, and he was better defensively. He jabbed well, he threw combinations well, he went to the body better than Forbes, and his uppercut landed all night. You are attributing all his success against Forbes due to size, but Andre showed good poise inside, he showed a good outside game, and I still think you are smoking something to get Forbes 4 rounds in that fight. He had the second round and thats it. If you throw away the bs compubox numbers Berto was outlanding him in every round, except the second. Of course Forbes will land a few counter shots, but he would against anyone coming forward, he is quick, experienced, and very skilled.
3. Berto's future: Maybe I am the only one of the few with the balls and foresight to invest in a fighter early,but Berto is, and has everything to be one of the best in the sport. He has speed unlike anyone except maybe Gamboa. He is hard to hit, and he hits hard. I respect what you say most of the time ICT, but I sense a geniune dislike of Berto so I am going totake everything you write with a grain of salt. There is no reason to dislike Berto, he is flashy, he is very nice young man, and he could be the next man to carry the sport.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Until Berto decides to fight the best then I'll give the credit he deserves...
All the tools are there and the kids def. got the goods. Looks to make some adjustments as his career has progressed.
But it's for NO reason why his management team themselves have said he wont be fighting Cotto, Margarito or Williams anytime soon. ;)
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
He looked good yesterday in controlling the fight against a decent veteran superfeatherweight.
I still have reservations about him beating any of the top guys, or a real welterweight but I'll credit him that he's done everything asked of him so far.
Not sure why but he doesn't excite me at all. I find all of his fights dull and I just can't get into him. I also question his chin. Being floored by Cosme Riveria wasn't a great sign, even though admiteddly he did manage to do the same to Joel Julio.
Actually Berto reminds me a lot of Julio. They both work extremely hard in fights, outworking their carefully picked opponents down the stretch. But neither has faced a real test yet (Julio not since Quintana) and I don't see the tools in either to be able to beat an elite fighter.
I think he'll go on to have a decent career, but to me he's more the level of Joshua Clottey or Cintron than a Cotto, Mayweather or Mosely.
I can't see a glittering future with multiple world title belts like I can with any of the modern greats.
But I'm sure he'll pick up a belt or two in his career.
Williams, Margarito, Mayweather, Cotto, Oscar, Mosely etc though all have the beating of him right now imo, and probably he'll never reach that level.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rotten Apple
I like Berto. He has great skills. But i think welters like Margarito, Cotto and Williams beat him
His team knows that he's not ready for the big guys like Williams and Margarito, but I think he can beat Cotto. I'd love to see that.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
What level?
Mayweather is way above Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley at their current rate.
Now that he is gone there is no real great fighter left in the WW division hence why the lightweight is better now. Williams left the division as well.
I think Mosley is the perfect opponent for Berto, he can't throw anything effectively except that right hook from everything Ih ave seen, and Berto can block that all night, also if Cotto was landing his jab on Mosley with ease, Berto has just as sharp of a jab, but its twice as fast. Once against only Margarito as of right now I have any hesitation of Berto beating, but you guys will see after the Collazo fight whats, what.
I see no similarities between Julio and Berto, Berto is fast, defensive oriented fighter who has the power and speed to knock guys out. Julio is a purely offensive minded fighter who is skilled ,but doesn't have the physical tools or skills developed to be a top level fighter. I think Julio would have had a lot of trouble with Forbes.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Berto's future: Maybe I am the only one of the few with the balls and foresight to invest in a fighter early,but Berto is, and has everything to be one of the best in the sport. He has speed unlike anyone except maybe Gamboa. He is hard to hit, and he hits hard. I respect what you say most of the time ICT, but I sense a geniune dislike of Berto so I am going totake everything you write with a grain of salt. There is no reason to dislike Berto, he is flashy, he is very nice young man, and he could be the next man to carry the sport.
Berto is definitely one of my favorite young fighters. I like his game, his story and he seems like he has a real deep drive - which comes into play a lot in this game. His background and story is pretty remarkable too. He's mentally tough and you can't really teach that. If his boxing game continues to improve and evolve, I'm with you on this one Taeth.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
I think he needs to settle down.Alot of entergy/Stamina burnt with jumping around,yelping and some real theatrics.His jab is solid and hand speed is undeniable but he has alot of refining to do.Also noticed alot of clinching when not so much was being put on him.A solid 12 rounds of experience under his belt but I honestly thought he would capitalize on his advantages more,go after the it more.No disrespect to all guts & glory Forbes,but he was a calculated measuring stick.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Lol Forbes didn't land that much at all, he did counter a few times, but you see what Forbes was able to do against Oscar, he was landing that jab consistenly he was landing more than one punch in his combinations consistently. Against Berto, he was landing a few counter shots early, but even then Berto's speed put him off balance so much most of them didn't land very hard.
1. Comparing Berto and Oscar's performances: I think Berto landed better, cleaner punches against Forbes. I think he "hurt" Forbes or got his attention more than Oscar did in their fight, and he definitely got hit less then Oscar.
2. The things Berto has consistently proven you/critics wrong: You said before the fight the only reason Berto would win would be outworking Forbes, and that Steve would send Berto to school in a boxing sense. Berto outboxed Forbes except for the second round. He threw better combinations he landed more punches, and he was better defensively. He jabbed well, he threw combinations well, he went to the body better than Forbes, and his uppercut landed all night. You are attributing all his success against Forbes due to size, but Andre showed good poise inside, he showed a good outside game, and I still think you are smoking something to get Forbes 4 rounds in that fight. He had the second round and thats it. If you throw away the bs compubox numbers Berto was outlanding him in every round, except the second. Of course Forbes will land a few counter shots, but he would against anyone coming forward, he is quick, experienced, and very skilled.
3. Berto's future: Maybe I am the only one of the few with the balls and foresight to invest in a fighter early,but Berto is, and has everything to be one of the best in the sport. He has speed unlike anyone except maybe Gamboa. He is hard to hit, and he hits hard. I respect what you say most of the time ICT, but I sense a geniune dislike of Berto so I am going totake everything you write with a grain of salt. There is no reason to dislike Berto, he is flashy, he is very nice young man, and he could be the next man to carry the sport.
Taeth i don't know where your getting that i said Forbes would send Berto to school boxing sense, infact i thought Berto would KO Forbes i was actually suprised at some of the success Forbes had. And im suprised he went the distance.
I don't mind investing in a fighter early, i think Roman Gonzalez, Abner Mares, Yuriokris Gamboa, are future top 10 P4P fighters. And again Taeth i don't dislike Andre Berto i have defended him in a few threads. I just want to see him fight a elite Welterweight before i make a real judgement about him.
Berto put in a good performance but it wasn't like he wasn't expected to win against the smaller Forbes. I think Forbes was very competitive with Berto until Berto upped his work and Forbes started to punch less and less.
If Berto beats Collazo or any of the top elite Welterweights then i'll jump on the Berto bandwagon. But until then he is still an unproven talented fighter IMO.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
I still doubt Andre Berto i think had Forbes had good KO power it could have been a different fight i think vs a Mosely,Margarito or Cotto and he gets stopped.I don't doubt his skill i just don't think he has a world class chin but i could be wrong.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Id like to see him fight a Welter his size coming in to win.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.
Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Shane Mosley i will out a doubt would pick over any lightweight if we are saying if they were to face one another or a vs you say.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Berto is a good talent but i don't see him being successful with the top welters like Williams, Magarito, Cotto, etc.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Berto showed he can Pitch well enough, but his biggest challenge is to see if he can Pitch and Catch over 12 rounds. Big difference from Catching shots from Forbes then Catching shots from Tall Paul or Margo. Boxing is about give and take. Dont see him beating Margo or Tall Paul. Only can find out in the ring so LETS GET IT ON. Prove me wrong.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.
Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.
Kind of like Roy's was at LHW? :o Agreed that Shane was best at LW, and it was a relatively weak era. Roy was best at SMW, but he moved up anyway to a safer division. Every notice that that other than James Toney, Roy mostly managed (by luck or by pricing himself) out to avoid the biggest fights out there? It's sad, because he would have beaten Benn or Eubank, but they would have been real challenges and we never got to see it. Too bad Michael Nunn was an idiot and Steve Little had the night of his life. Hmmm. A tall southpaw who can punch...it still upsets me that fight never happened.
Shane moved up in weight to fight bigger names for bigger money and bigger challenge. He was also a true champion and defended belts in high risk fights - Forrest and more significantly, Winky Wright. Fighting Wright was a terrible business decision. At that time, he was coming off beating Oscar and he could have done what people do today, vacate the belts and made a bigger, safer fight. Taking his career as a whole, Shane took more risks and fought better competition.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.
Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.
Kind of like Roy's was at LHW? :o Agreed that Shane was best at LW, and it was a relatively weak era. Roy was best at SMW, but he moved up anyway to a safer division. Every notice that that other than James Toney, Roy mostly managed (by luck or by pricing himself) out to avoid the biggest fights out there? It's sad, because he would have beaten Benn or Eubank, but they would have been real challenges and we never got to see it. Too bad Michael Nunn was an idiot and Steve Little had the night of his life. Hmmm. A tall southpaw who can punch...it still upsets me that fight never happened.
Shane moved up in weight to fight bigger names for bigger money and bigger challenge. He was also a true champion and defended belts in high risk fights - Forrest and more significantly, Winky Wright. Fighting Wright was a terrible business decision. At that time, he was coming off beating Oscar and he could have done what people do today, vacate the belts and made a bigger, safer fight. Taking his career as a whole, Shane took more risks and fought better competition.
Well Roy Jones did fight Montel Griffin x2, Mike McCallum, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver x3, Glen Johnson, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Eric Harding, Reggie Johnson, all at Light Heavyweight which isn't bad at all. And certainly better than Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight John John Molina, Philip Holiday, Jesse James Leija, Golden Johnson.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Everyone laugh.....I think a peaking Stevie Johnston and Mosley at lightweight should have been made & would have been abit competitive,But yeah,Mosley takes it ;D
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
I think one thing that's easy to forget to factor in is his size. The guy sweats down majorly, probably as much as Paul Williams does, to get to welter. Look at that body- at only 25 it won't be able to stay in the division forever. He'll move up at least one division before 30.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Killface
I think one thing that's easy to forget to factor in is his size. The guy sweats down majorly, probably as much as Paul Williams does, to get to welter. Look at that body- at only 25 it won't be able to stay in the division forever. He'll move up at least one division before 30.
He's not tall though, only 5 ft 7 I believe. I imagine welter is his natural weight class.
I have doubts about him holding his own against the biggest guys at welter, if he moves up to face Daniel Santos, Joel Julio, James Kirkland and Alfredo Angulo I have to say I wouldn't fancy his chances much at all.
I'd fancy Santos, Kirkland and Angulo especially to all knock Berto out inside 7 rounds.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Just rewatching it for 3rd time.Why all of the waiting around and holding late,I just dont get it.He really was looking to sharpshoot in spots and .....I dont know,nit picking a bit but he really seemed to be caught up in the moment and quite honestly,I think he could have done some serious damage had he pushed the issue and made a huge statement.Maybe it was the big stage but he seemed very uncertain in between rounds.....time will tell?
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Why is everyone raining on Taeth's parade? :D
Berto is a good prospect, lets see him progress a little before throwing him to the wolves.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Are you kidding me ? Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight was weak.
Kind of like Roy's was at LHW? :o Agreed that Shane was best at LW, and it was a relatively weak era. Roy was best at SMW, but he moved up anyway to a safer division. Every notice that that other than James Toney, Roy mostly managed (by luck or by pricing himself) out to avoid the biggest fights out there? It's sad, because he would have beaten Benn or Eubank, but they would have been real challenges and we never got to see it. Too bad Michael Nunn was an idiot and Steve Little had the night of his life. Hmmm. A tall southpaw who can punch...it still upsets me that fight never happened.
Shane moved up in weight to fight bigger names for bigger money and bigger challenge. He was also a true champion and defended belts in high risk fights - Forrest and more significantly, Winky Wright. Fighting Wright was a terrible business decision. At that time, he was coming off beating Oscar and he could have done what people do today, vacate the belts and made a bigger, safer fight. Taking his career as a whole, Shane took more risks and fought better competition.
Well Roy Jones did fight Montel Griffin x2, Mike McCallum, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver x3, Glen Johnson, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Eric Harding, Reggie Johnson, all at Light Heavyweight which isn't bad at all. And certainly better than Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight John John Molina, Philip Holiday, Jesse James Leija, Golden Johnson.
Past it Mike McCallum, a much smaller man. He should have fought Reggie Johnson 5 years before at SMW. No, the competition good, but not great, but factor in that Roy had fights at the lower weights against to, maybe three top tier fighters (Hopkins, Toney, and maybe Tate) vs what Shane has fought at the higher weights it wasn't even close.
The bottom line is the Shane sought out THE BEST and made those fights happen. There was always an excuse, often financial or locational, why Roy didn't fight the BEST.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Berto is good very good in fact skill wise but his chin will let him down he will get KO'd vs Mosely,Margarito,Cotto,Cintron and Williams if he comes back down to Welterweight.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
I love the way this thread is titled, you swear berto just beat someone huge, not a former SFW who can't punch for shit. Nothing personal with forbes, i like him, i do. But a BIG WW beating him means sweet FA. Berto would do things in fights like that he may not risk with people his own size or with the power to spark him. And lets not forget Forbes hurt him a few times, stopped him and made him go into a shell for a few minutes, thats not good!
Cotto, margarito, citron, williams, Clottey; If Beto fights any of them in his next 4 fights he will get sparked.
He needs to change his style too, His lead jab is pathetic. It flicks it out and it looks more like a back hand bith slap than a strong stiff stamina draining punch that someone like him should be throwing.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
I don't think many people are "doubting" Berto.... they're just saying that he needs to beat a legit top 10 welter before they fully believe that he's a future PFP guy.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Noting about my opinion of berto has changed, he gets better with every fight, overcomes minior hurdles and fights the right people to help him progress. The only two problems i see with the kid after this weekend is he gets too relaxed and big headed at times, and to use a atlas term admires his work way to much, other than that he's right where he needs to be. He's in no apparent hurry to take on the williams, and margarito's of the division and that right now would be his only downfall. I'm much more impressed by this kid than say someone like gamboa.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Look i like Berto and i agree with Teath think he is something special. I dont agree with what you say about Mosley though he was pound for pound number one at one point by ring mag at least and be many others. He was unbeatable in my eyes at LW kinda like Roy Jones Jr was at SWM. But unlike Roy i thought Sugar Shane Mosley has fought harder competion.
He didn't fight harder competition at lightweight, James Toney trumps his whole Lightweight roster.
Mosley definitely was good, but there are styles that definitely trump him, because he isn't as well rounded.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Yea but besides Toney he was a bit light as well at the weight people find him to be the best in i think Shane looked just unbeatable as well. But moving up in weight is what killed him Forrest would hard fight for alot of people i feel at welter he is a ver big man. I thought shane won the rematch is was much closer then people think. Then there is winkey Wright who is good pound for pound him self but at the weight of 154 Shane is almost 20 pounds over his prime weight. I dont know how a PBF fight would of gone with Forrest but i dont think Floyde could even beat Winky Wright at 154. All i am saying is that Shane had some big wins and i always thought stayed competive in his losses. He even as a pound for pound number one at a point i just think you were being a bit hard on him but at the same time i tend to be hard on Roy Jones Jr as well so.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
Kind of like Roy's was at LHW? :o Agreed that Shane was best at LW, and it was a relatively weak era. Roy was best at SMW, but he moved up anyway to a safer division. Every notice that that other than James Toney, Roy mostly managed (by luck or by pricing himself) out to avoid the biggest fights out there? It's sad, because he would have beaten Benn or Eubank, but they would have been real challenges and we never got to see it. Too bad Michael Nunn was an idiot and Steve Little had the night of his life. Hmmm. A tall southpaw who can punch...it still upsets me that fight never happened.
Shane moved up in weight to fight bigger names for bigger money and bigger challenge. He was also a true champion and defended belts in high risk fights - Forrest and more significantly, Winky Wright. Fighting Wright was a terrible business decision. At that time, he was coming off beating Oscar and he could have done what people do today, vacate the belts and made a bigger, safer fight. Taking his career as a whole, Shane took more risks and fought better competition.
Well Roy Jones did fight Montel Griffin x2, Mike McCallum, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver x3, Glen Johnson, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Eric Harding, Reggie Johnson, all at Light Heavyweight which isn't bad at all. And certainly better than Shane Mosley's opposition at Lightweight John John Molina, Philip Holiday, Jesse James Leija, Golden Johnson.
Past it Mike McCallum, a much smaller man. He should have fought Reggie Johnson 5 years before at SMW. No, the competition good, but not great, but factor in that Roy had fights at the lower weights against to, maybe three top tier fighters (Hopkins, Toney, and maybe Tate) vs what Shane has fought at the higher weights it wasn't even close.
The bottom line is the Shane sought out THE BEST and made those fights happen. There was always an excuse, often financial or locational, why Roy didn't fight the BEST.
Never made out it was great competition but you brought up Roy Jones's Light Heavyweight resume so i gave you an example of Jones's opposition being much stronger than Mosley's resume at Lightweight, and even if you go overall Jones still wins it quite comfortably.
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Re: Still doubting Berto?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Yea but besides Toney he was a bit light as well at the weight people find him to be the best in i think Shane looked just unbeatable as well. But moving up in weight is what killed him Forrest would hard fight for alot of people i feel at welter he is a ver big man. I thought shane won the rematch is was much closer then people think. Then there is winkey Wright who is good pound for pound him self but at the weight of 154 Shane is almost 20 pounds over his prime weight. I dont know how a PBF fight would of gone with Forrest but i dont think Floyde could even beat Winky Wright at 154. All i am saying is that Shane had some big wins and i always thought stayed competive in his losses. He even as a pound for pound number one at a point i just think you were being a bit hard on him but at the same time i tend to be hard on Roy Jones Jr as well so.
I just have to point out that no way Mosley won the rematch against Forrest IMO.