Printable View
James Toney Bernard Hopkins
Always thought James would beat him, though its 10 years to late.. Nard said he would go to heavyweight to fight Maskaev, I think he should make a run at Toney.. 2 of the most decorated and defensive wizards and Old School badasses this fight will make money and can be marketed
I've always wanted to see it too.
I wanted Hopkins to move up to heavy and fight Maskaev.
Not sure which of the current world champs he'd have a chance against, Chagaev maybe but probably too big a risk but a fight with Toney would be great.
If Calzaghe beats Jones Jr though I'd like to see B Hop take on Chad Dawson and cause another huge upset by beating a guy almost 20 years younger than him to become the universally recognisedlight heavyweight champ.
If Jones managed to somehow beat Joe though a rematch between Hopkins and Jones with them both back on top of the boxing world would be amazing. And what a story to old age and losses seemingly ending their careers for good but both coming back against the odds to climb back to the top again.
It would be legendary.
I'm not confident of Jones chances against Calzaghe though.........
IDK in theory it's a good match up between two all-time great fighters of the same era however in reality it might be a chess match. I would watch it though, no doubt
they are 2 great self promoters.. along with being distinguished IMO as the last breed of great authentic throwback fighter..
Toney came in at tremendous shape against Rahman, and Nard can work with Shilstone to put on the lbs.. I know it would never happen but its a gotdam shame these fighters never crossed paths
I don't think that's true. Both came in as fat blubbery messes imo. I love Toney one of my all time favourite fighters but he hasn't been in great shape since he beat Michael Nunn.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
I figured you know it was prefaced with the fact that Toney struggles but came in at a stellar shape compared to the last Rahman, Peter and Batchelder fights... Matter of Fact I would take the Toney that beat Holyfield and Jirov to beat any heavy or Cruiser aside form Vitali KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't think that's true. Both came in as fat blubbery messes imo. I love Toney one of my all time favourite fighters but he hasn't been in great shape since he beat Michael Nunn.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
toney was in good shape against Jirov, that was the last time. after that he got to the 220lbs + limit and his shape has never been so good. nonetheless what an athlete, it takes a lot of talent to fight agasint natural heavyweight who are stronger...
for Bernard Hopkins, well if RJJ win against Joe, yes, but I sincerely doubt RJJ has a chance.
Joe is one of the best boxer we have seen in the last 10years. he beat fairly Bernard Hopkins, I cannot see RJJ beating a trained and motivated joe...but who knows...
Depends man fighters et old in a round and although many great fighters have reinvented themselves at 37 doubt your gonna see the whirlwind you been accustomed too.. Jones has a sharp fast strong straight right, that is consequently Joe's achilles heal.. Mark my words joe wil get Knocked down at least 2x by Jones lead rightQuote:
Originally Posted by SEB
Well I don't think he could have beaten Wlad either but on his day I think he'd have made it tough for any other non Klitschko out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI figured you know it was prefaced with the fact that Toney struggles but came in at a stellar shape compared to the last Rahman, Peter and Batchelder fights... Matter of Fact I would take the Toney that beat Holyfield and Jirov to beat any heavy or Cruiser aside form Vitali KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboI don't think that's true. Both came in as fat blubbery messes imo. I love Toney one of my all time favourite fighters but he hasn't been in great shape since he beat Michael Nunn.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Not sure how much he has left now though.
The Toney That dismantled Holyfield would have ate Wlads heart and would have toyed with Tyson as well..Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWell I don't think he could have beaten Wlad either but on his day I think he'd have made it tough for any other non Klitschko out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT RockI figured you know it was prefaced with the fact that Toney struggles but came in at a stellar shape compared to the last Rahman, Peter and Batchelder fights... Matter of Fact I would take the Toney that beat Holyfield and Jirov to beat any heavy or Cruiser aside form Vitali KlitschkoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Not sure how much he has left now though.
Your Crazy!!!!:crazy3::crazy3::crazy3::crazy3::crazy3:: crazy3::crazy3::crazy3::crazy3::crazy3:Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
...you MUST be shrooming.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
At the end of Tyson's career, YES James Toney would have been way too much defensively for him but NEVER EVER was James Toney going to "eat Wlad's Heart"......Wlad might not have KO'd him but he would have had an easy time with a points win over him
No gotdam way Toney would have gotten in his head Shoulder rolled and out gutted Wlad leaving him off balanceQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle...you MUST be shrooming.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
At the end of Tyson's career, YES James Toney would have been way too much defensively for him but NEVER EVER was James Toney going to "eat Wlad's Heart"......Wlad might not have KO'd him but he would have had an easy time with a points win over him
Big deal he beat Holyfeild a very old Holyfeild who looked to have a heart attack in the ring way overrated win if you ask me. I think a younger version of Holyfeild would of beat Tony to a lopsided decsion people i dont get it they seem not to see how bad Holyfeild was at the time lol.
I am a the hugest Holyfield fan on this sight and Toney gives him absolute fits 10x out of 10... They are of a rare fraternity of old throw backsQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Holyfeild was 40 years old he had some years on Toney and alot more wars then Toney not to mention Holyfeild hart condition. What ever was left of Holyfeild was gone after Lewis fights he was done even before then Holyfeild had a tough career and it showed in the later half. He was one of my favorite fighters but he should of called it a long time ago he is to old and he was to old when he fought Toney sad part is Holyfeild still fighting now which i dont get at all.
I'll have to call you crazy on this one bro, this would be a ridiculous fight IMO. And i have no idea how Bernard Hopkins would be able to get above 200 pounds, and James Toney well lets be honest the last time he was in shape was when he fought Evander Holyfield.
Speaking of which JT i see you talking about Evander Holyfield vs James Toney, i also believe a prime James Toney would give a prime Evander Holyfield fits aswell, can you imagine them going at it prime for prime at Cruiserweight ? wow thats one of my dream match ups, along with James Toney vs Bernard Hopkins at Middleweight/Super Middleweight.
Honestly its a pikem Evander has all the heart but James would fight beyond all the limitations, crazy to think these to just missed each other by a few years... Moorer gave him all the trouble 2 x bar when holy Knocked him down, albeit moorer was a south paw james had all the tangibles and intangibles as well as the toughness and ability to swim in the deep waters with Evander... Toney is an enigma to me and one of the greatest, want to see him leave on a high note... Love me some David Haye, but Toney would spoil him all day perfecyt retirement fight to go out on a high note....Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
There will never be another like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins
Would Toney have a bat or something? Because if not then there is no way Wlad let's James in punching range and even if he did what the hell would James do?Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Wlad would have beaten that fat bastard up for 12 rounds NEVER LOSING ONE
and you're a fool to think otherwise....where's Toney now? James Toney couldn't even beat SAM PETER!!!!!
James Toney = Floyd MayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by JT RockHonestly its a pikem Evander has all the heart but James would fight beyond all the limitations, crazy to think these to just missed each other by a few years... Moorer gave him all the trouble 2 x bar when holy Knocked him down, albeit moorer was a south paw james had all the tangibles and intangibles as well as the toughness and ability to swim in the deep waters with Evander... Toney is an enigma to me and one of the greatest, want to see him leave on a high note... Love me some David Haye, but Toney would spoil him all day perfecyt retirement fight to go out on a high note....Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
There will never be another like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins
If James Toney had Floyd Mayweather's dedication to training, its just scary to think how good he could of been.
Prime Holyfield would out work and out muscle Toney to a ud Evander i fell had way better stamina and at cruiser weight had alot of power.
If James Toney was Floyd Mayweather Jr then where is Floyd's Montell Griffin??? Where is Floyd's Drake Thazdi???
James Toney as great of a fighter as he was/is his style (especially on defense) is better suited to fight guys who throw hooks and naturally open themselves up to counters as opposed to the guys who throw jabs and crosses effectively.
To me Evander was one of the best pound for pound fighters to ever lace up the gloves you talk about Jones, Hopkins and Mayweather but to me Holyfeild was even better when it came pound for pound. Now i know everyone while disagree with me which is fine i dont mind. But Holyfeild when he was younger was fast, good boxer, he could make Hopkins look like a clean fighter when he roughed guys up, most heart i have ever seen and i chin that could stand up to anything truly special. The man started his career at 175 and ended up a all time great heavyweight winning the titles more then Ali or anyone else ever did. Beating guys weighing more then 30 pounds above him some fighter he fought were almost 100 pounds heavier then his starting weight to me Holyfeild was something special.
;D Good one here.Prime for prime at Middle will go down as one of those Fantasy what if fights that just never came off.Really two of the finest technical thinking & skilled fighters over the last couple of decades.Hopkins at middle up until a number of years ago showed a busier work rate and an instinct to pressure/speed/power & chin and finish guys.Toney likes to dictate pace in his controlled manner,could be out hustled and had a bad knack for laying back for durations of a round,could be his own worst enemy at times.Two of my all time favs,hands down,But I have to go with Hopkins over 12 in a thin dec.Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Now if your talking today....leave your shoe laces and belt at the door before they put you into the rubber room JT.....your nuttier than a box of peanut brittle ;D;D;)
Did you read what i said ? i said James Toney if he trained like Floyd Mayweather, could of been like Floyd Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If Wlad had the chin of Muhamed Ali he'd be the best heavyweight ever
I certainly don't think Evander Holyfield is at RJJ, Hopkins, Mayweather's level. Evander Holyfield was a great fighter but your overrating him IMO, he lost in his prime to Riddick Bowe. And was hurt badly by lesser fighters like Bert Cooper, Alex Stewart, Michael Dokes, in his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
When did you see Hopkins, Mayweather, RJJ, in any trouble in there prime ? Hopkins was only ever in danger once when he didn't get climatized to the high altitude against Segundo Mercado. Other than that he was never in any danger, neither were Floyd Mayweather or RJJ in there prime.
Im not dissing Evander Holyfield i have great respect for him as fighter, and he actually got me into boxing because the first fight i ever saw. Was Holyfield vs Tyson 1, but i certainly don't think he is greater than the fighter's above, and this may cause some controversy. But i think he is a level below the fighters above aswell IMO.
He would still have those suspect stamina problems Lyle, remember he loss to Ross Purity was because of his stamina not because of his chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
To be fair Holfield fighting Bowe and Lewis is like Mayweather fighting Halger or Monzon when you look at the size difference and to be clear i dont think that PBF would beat either of them to say the least. He looked human because the guys he was fighting were alot bigger then him most of the time and think he faced alot better competion lets not forget he fought in the one of the best era of Heavyweights but i see your point.
Like Hopkins he stayed in a divsion were he was bigger then most and never moved up till later and Jones competion was not much better. Mayweather was great at SFW and LW but after that besides Oscar did not fight the tough fights he could of in the other divsion. IF Holyfeild stayed at Cruiser weight were he was dominate like no other he proably would not have lost but he has faced and beat just as good as guys if not better then all the fighter i mentioned and that is all i got to say.
Floyd Mayweather moved up 5 weight classes and ODLH had a 1 stone advantage, it was like a very small Jr Middleweight, fighting a Middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
RJJ moved up to Heavyweight to fight John Ruiz, And John Ruiz had over 30 pound advantage, RJJ wasn't even 200 pounds it was like a Cruiserweight vs Heavyweight.
I think it would be more like Mayweather fighting a primed Cotto or Margarito........oh wait ;D.Its really apples & oranges in difference,stylistically,attitude wise and such.Yeah...Mayweather was a better p4p skilled fighter imo but they were nothing alike.Holyfield did not want to be pretty,he wanted knock heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Yeah I'd like to see this fight too, I remember it was almost a done deal & Ring mag did a cover about the fight when Toney was still at cruiser.
The build up to the fight would be great as both guys are never short of words!
I wouldn't mind seeing Dawson/ Hopkins... anyone else?
Well Holyfeild started at 175 in his career and he was fighting Bowe who weighed in like at 247 which was 30 pounds heavier then Holyfeild weighed in at and let me see like 72 pounds above his starting weight i say that is just as bad as Mayweather fought Oscar at 154 which was 24 pounds above his starting weight and i think Bowe was better fighter the Ruiz and the size difference with Ruiz and Jones was about the same with Holyfeild and Bowe was i just feel Holyfeild was a better pound for pound fighter.
Not to mention Lewis atg he was fighting past prime and he weighed in at 30 pounds above him and 70 pounds above were he started his career.
How is Evander Holyfield a better P4P fighter ? all 3 of those fighters RJJ, Mayweather, Hopkins, have done great things at multiple weightclasses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
And Evander Holyfield was no way a natural 177 pounder. He is easily naturally over 210 pounds, in most of his fights at Heavyweight he was 210 pounds or over, he was 217 pounds against Riddick Bowe in there 2nd fight, in arguably Evander Holyfield's best performance.
Which means he is very comfortable at over 210 pounds, where as RJJ couldn't make the Heavyweight limit, nor could Floyd Mayweather make the Jr Middleweight limit.
Took alot to get Evander were he was in weight ice he was natural cruiseweight i would say and could of stayed there if he wanted. Remeber he was at the age when he was in cruiser was in mid 20s and he was weighing in at 190 pretty comfortable. Roy is natural 175 i would say he fought and look good at the weight for a long time. Mayweather is a natural a light welter weight i would say as well. Hopkins is a natrul 175 i would say had no idea how he made weight so long but he did. Point being still pretty much stands Jumping to heavy weight divsion and beating the best is as good as weight divsion hoping in the lower weights. Because there is no limit to the fighters size you while be facing just the way i feel.
You think ?Personally I'd rank The Foreman,Dokes,Tyson 1,Moorer 2,Mercer. as better all around performance's.I know it was beating the man that beat him for the crown,great redemption but Bowe came in like a heffer.Maybe he ruined it for me?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBHow is Evander Holyfield a better P4P fighter ? all 3 of those fighters RJJ, Mayweather, Hopkins, have done great things at multiple weightclasses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
And Evander Holyfield was no way a natural 177 pounder. He is easily naturally over 210 pounds, in most of his fights at Heavyweight he was 210 pounds or over, he was 217 pounds against Riddick Bowe in there 2nd fight, in arguably Evander Holyfield's best performance.
Which means he is very comfortable at over 210 pounds, where as RJJ couldn't make the Heavyweight limit, nor could Floyd Mayweather make the Jr Middleweight limit.
I think his win over Bowe was good win because he was able to beat a man with alot of bigger and regain his title which not many do at heavy.
Outstanding win,regaining the championship, trust me.At that time it meant something,linear,now they are all over the place.But size can be over rated & does not equate to giving one's self the best chance for victory.Personnaly,I liked Holy in other performances. Blame Fanman LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140