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The greatest middleweight ever against the bigger Joe Calzaghe, both imposed themselves on opponents in a similar fashion, both have the ability to box, and good handspeed. WHen comparing them in their respective eras against eachother, who wins if they met in the ring?
Hmmm,tough one.Lets see...Ive seen one fight about 12 or 13 times and the Other fight Zero times ;D
But on paper Greb might just have given any Middle of this era nightmares and possibly have double digit DQ losses on his record with todays rule set.And away We Gooooooooo :biteit:;D
No reason we can not discuss guys we have never seen in action but different Imo when picking a winner either way.
I dont think there is any video footage of Greb; so how could you possibly compare them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMA6Pd6tT3QQuote:
Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFItTXTExms
Give Sam Soliman faster hands and make him a little harder to hit you have a pretty good idea of how Greb fights. Personally, I'd have to go with Greb on this one. ;D
How the hell can ANYONE determine how good/great a boxer whom they've never seen fight is?
SEANIE now has serious competition for the SIR BELLEND award and title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Taeth you are a knob.
Of course we cant say who was the better technically.
Not too hard to work out who would have more grit though ,they were much tougher men back then .
HArry Creb middleweight but fought up to light heavy ,fought 294 times and lost eight of them in 13 years. named 'the human windmill 'cause he would come forwards and land from any direction and was booed frequently as the villian in fights from where hits would land.
He had been blind in one eye for about 3 years and retired from the game at 32 (I think the soft boys of today would be at the eye clinic) not still in the ring fighting other champs off their world title with only one eye.
(6 defences).
Turns out Harry should of stayed in the ring they accidently killied him in the hospital with too much anastetic when he did go to get his good eye improved on! These men fought more rounds every fight than they do today and they went all out for every one of them.
With Gene Tunny saying he never wanted to ever fight him again after Harry took his light heavyweight title off him,and Mickey Walker stating Harry as the toughest fighter he ever faced,gives you an idea it wasn't just luck.
Makes Gene Tunny look better than the records too, cause after he took a 15 round beating off Harry and had said he doesn't ever want to face him again he stayed away for a while and worked out how to beat Harry, which he then did on four occasions.
Hey, there's one you can ask half the people who call SRR the greatest of all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Joe Calzaghe would have to stay on the outside otherwise his pretty face would get battered like the elephant man. Under the current rule Greb would be disqualified so would be largely ineffective. Under the old rule Harry would make Joe his girlfriend. :)
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Exactly. You can't judge a fighter accurately just on stastics.
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Originally Posted by CGMHey, there's one you can ask half the people who call SRR the greatest of all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
SRR has a LOT of footage available on him. I'd be surprised if any big boxing fans have never seen at least one of his fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Yeah but lets not kid ourselves, the middleweights and LHW's of his day were smaller physically than the middleweightts and LHW's of today. Even Gene Tunney never weighted in more than than 200lbs even when fighting heavyweight.
Who wins:
Mike Tyson
vs
Goliath (from the bible)
Goliath was big, but Tyson could punch pretty hard.
Your thoughts.
God knows, because I really havent seen anything of Greb besides the footage from earlier in this thread.
Strange thread really. :rolleyes:;D
yep i cant answer either. now if u said hagler, or SRR or even Hearns would have been a good fight too, then i could answer.
Ironic it comes up in this thread but legend has it that Goliath had a brittle chin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut
True enough. But based on what I read here, I wouldn't have thought one or two fights was enough to form an opinion. at least to judge him as the best. And it is my understanding that there is precious little of him available from his time at welterweight, which is what many people base their judgement on. But no big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by CGMHey, there's one you can ask half the people who call SRR the greatest of all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
SRR has a LOT of footage available on him. I'd be surprised if any big boxing fans have never seen at least one of his fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGM
Yeah I do see your point though. Thats why I have no "all time greatest" list. Especially with the years from 1900-1950, 1) we have very little footage to view the fighters and 2) they were shady times, fueled by racial predjudice and controlled by criminals. There were probably tons of guys who were as good or better than SRR, but never got a chance because they were black and could fight, or because they never had the connections or didn't want to play ball with the mob (Charley Burley could be a good example of this).
How the hell can I compare Floyd Mayweather, a guy who I have EVERY SINGLE ONE of his fights on DVD, to a guy like Stanley Ketchel, who I've only seen in one fight, where Jack Johnson knocked his teeth clean out of his mouth.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I'll ask Andre. I'm sure he saw Greb fight a couple of times
Remind me to smack you in the temple with my walking stick when we meet will ya?.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I'll ask Andre. I'm sure he saw Greb fight a couple of times
Actually he didnt look that good in the video on utube back there did he? Philladephia kid looked better in sparring.
? WTF are you talking about, and maybe you guys should look for footage of Greb before you state that there is none out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlSEANIE now has serious competition for the SIR BELLEND award and title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Taeth you are a knob.
Gene Tunney under the tutaledge of Benny Leonard actually beat Greb twice after Greb beat him, remember that Gene was still a novice when they first fought, he had very little experience outside the millitary by that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Says four in the history of boxing book.they all varya bit dont they, box rec gets it wrong half time.
Also says Benny Leonard died in the ring while refereeing 17th april 1947 nicholas arena new york.
Footage is one thing but actual fight footage is entirely different,right?If you have a gem or two I'll reward you handsomely,as would most fans ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth? WTF are you talking about, and maybe you guys should look for footage of Greb before you state that there is none out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlSEANIE now has serious competition for the SIR BELLEND award and title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Taeth you are a knob.
Seriously,Im glad the oldies get mentions and they should be discussed.A bit misdirected to ignore them simply because their is not footage or we have not seen them fight.They paved the way.But it's important to keep in perspective Imo.
I know that with the help of Leonard that Tunney beat Greb twice... or maybe 3 out of 5 because he said those wins were more important to him than beating Dempsey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I think Boxrec is only good for dates and results (sometimes ),Isn't it like Wikipedia where anyone with an account can just add on info ??I read a piece/ article that Tunney was demanding of a rematch....posted a bond to secure it only days later??Maybe we should call Sugar ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Heres what it says on Gene
Gene Tunny:
Born Joseph Tunny 25th may 1897 New york. turned pro at 18 but after a few wins was drafted into the marines.
Where he was posted overseas and got plenty of boxing practice.
Back in America in 1919 he continued his winning ways up until he took the light heavyweight crown from the batttling levinski in 1922.
Four months later losing it to Harry Greb over a fifteen round beating.
But Tunney worked out how to beat Greb and did soon four future occasions with Greb comming to the dressing rooms after the last and saying "I never want fight you again". ( I got that ass way around in my above post).
Then went into the heavyweight and took that, then defended it only twice and retired.
77 fights one loss.
married a wealthy socialite heiress bacame a wealthy buisnesman hung around with Bernard Shaw etc and lived till he was 81 dying in Greenwich Conneecticut 7th Nov 1978.
Good life for an ex boxer :cool:.
Says here, he got his nose broken in the first round took a beating for fifteen and was in bed for week afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsI think Boxrec is only good for dates and results (sometimes ),Isn't it like Wikipedia where anyone with an account can just add on info ??I read a piece/ article that Tunney was demanding of a rematch....posted a bond to secure it only days later??Maybe we should call Sugar ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Good on him wanting more revenge and getting it!
Good stuff,Think about that.He was only 31 and fresh off his biggest win of career.....or biggest known win?But retired.Did not know that he was also a veteran of WWII,wonder if he saw action in France.But yes,according to all accounts....Greb rightfully muffed him up bad in the 1st fight.Sounds brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
But the biggest plus for me is that Greb did it all in the finish with one eye!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsGood stuff,Think about that.He was only 31 and fresh off his biggest win of career.....or biggest known win?But retired.Did not know that he was also a vetran of WWII,wonder if he saw action in France.But yes,according to all accounts....Greb rightfully muffed him up bad in the 1st fight.Sounds brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Right,right.A whole different breed back then.Can you imagine him looking to the ref and saying 'I hurt my hand' ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreBut the biggest plus for me is that Greb did it all in the finish with one eye!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsGood stuff,Think about that.He was only 31 and fresh off his biggest win of career.....or biggest known win?But retired.Did not know that he was also a vetran of WWII,wonder if he saw action in France.But yes,according to all accounts....Greb rightfully muffed him up bad in the 1st fight.Sounds brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Well Taeth, then prove us wrong...Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth? WTF are you talking about, and maybe you guys should look for footage of Greb before you state that there is none out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlSEANIE now has serious competition for the SIR BELLEND award and title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Taeth you are a knob.
As far as I know there is absolutely ZERO fight footage of Greb.
If you what your saying is that you have or have seen footage of Greb fighting then you sir are one of a kind.
There has been footage put on here of them
I am not saying there is a ton of it
, but calling me knob for that doesn't make sense.
With the rules of the 1920's and Grebs chin and dirty fighting I will say greb with old school gloves and no mouth pieces.
Greb inside first round ;D
Calzaghe would break his hands inside the first round, they would have an accidental clash of heads in the 4th and then Calzaghe's corner would have real problems halting the blood flow. Luckily as the fight was being fought in Ireland, and Calzaghe was ahead on the score cards, Calzaghe would win on judges score cards.
I hope that clears things up. lol
Nice shadow boxing footage, made kid thunder look fluid ;D
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Memphis