Harry Greb vs Joe Calzaghe

[Spicoli]

Who wins:

Mike Tyson

vs

Goliath (from the bible)

Goliath was big, but Tyson could punch pretty hard.

Your thoughts.

Ironic it comes up in this thread but legend has it that Goliath had a brittle chin.

[CGM]

How the hell can ANYONE determine how good/great a boxer whom they've never seen fight is?

Hey, there's one you can ask half the people who call SRR the greatest of all time.

SRR has a LOT of footage available on him. I'd be surprised if any big boxing fans have never seen at least one of his fights.

True enough. But based on what I read here, I wouldn't have thought one or two fights was enough to form an opinion. at least to judge him as the best. And it is my understanding that there is precious little of him available from his time at welterweight, which is what many people base their judgement on. But no big deal.

[Beanflicker]

True enough. But based on what I read here, I wouldn't have thought one or two fights was enough to form an opinion. at least to judge him as the best. And it is my understanding that there is precious little of him available from his time at welterweight, which is what many people base their judgement on. But no big deal.

Yeah I do see your point though. Thats why I have no "all time greatest" list. Especially with the years from 1900-1950, 1) we have very little footage to view the fighters and 2) they were shady times, fueled by racial predjudice and controlled by criminals. There were probably tons of guys who were as good or better than SRR, but never got a chance because they were black and could fight, or because they never had the connections or didn't want to play ball with the mob (Charley Burley could be a good example of this).

How the hell can I compare Floyd Mayweather, a guy who I have EVERY SINGLE ONE of his fights on DVD, to a guy like Stanley Ketchel, who I've only seen in one fight, where Jack Johnson knocked his teeth clean out of his mouth.

[Violent Demise]

How the hell can ANYONE determine how good/great a boxer whom they've never seen fight is?

I'll ask Andre. I'm sure he saw Greb fight a couple of times

[Andre]

How the hell can ANYONE determine how good/great a boxer whom they've never seen fight is?

I'll ask Andre. I'm sure he saw Greb fight a couple of times

Remind me to smack you in the temple with my walking stick when we meet will ya?.

Actually he didnt look that good in the video on utube back there did he? Philladephia kid looked better in sparring.

[Taeth]

The greatest middleweight ever against the bigger Joe Calzaghe, both imposed themselves on opponents in a similar fashion, both have the ability to box, and good handspeed. WHen comparing them in their respective eras against eachother, who wins if they met in the ring?

SEANIE now has serious competition for the SIR BELLEND award and title.
Taeth you are a knob.

? WTF are you talking about, and maybe you guys should look for footage of Greb before you state that there is none out there.

[Taeth]

Of course we cant say who was the better technically.

Not too hard to work out who would have more grit though ,they were much tougher men back then .
HArry Creb middleweight but fought up to light heavy ,fought 294 times and lost eight of them in 13 years. named 'the human windmill 'cause he would come forwards and land from any direction and was booed frequently as the villian in fights from where hits would land.
He had been blind in one eye for about 3 years and retired from the game at 32 (I think the soft boys of today would be at the eye clinic) not still in the ring fighting other champs off their world title with only one eye.
(6 defences).
Turns out Harry should of stayed in the ring they accidently killied him in the hospital with too much anastetic when he did go to get his good eye improved on! These men fought more rounds every fight than they do today and they went all out for every one of them.
With Gene Tunny saying he never wanted to ever fight him again after Harry took his light heavyweight title off him,and Mickey Walker stating Harry as the toughest fighter he ever faced,gives you an idea it wasn't just luck.
Makes Gene Tunny look better than the records too, cause after he took a 15 round beating off Harry and had said he doesn't ever want to face him again he stayed away for a while and worked out how to beat Harry, which he then did on four occasions.

Gene Tunney under the tutaledge of Benny Leonard actually beat Greb twice after Greb beat him, remember that Gene was still a novice when they first fought, he had very little experience outside the millitary by that point.

[Andre]

Says four in the history of boxing book.they all varya bit dont they, box rec gets it wrong half time.
Also says Benny Leonard died in the ring while refereeing 17th april 1947 nicholas arena new york.

[Spicoli]

The greatest middleweight ever against the bigger Joe Calzaghe, both imposed themselves on opponents in a similar fashion, both have the ability to box, and good handspeed. WHen comparing them in their respective eras against eachother, who wins if they met in the ring?

SEANIE now has serious competition for the SIR BELLEND award and title.
Taeth you are a knob.

? WTF are you talking about, and maybe you guys should look for footage of Greb before you state that there is none out there.

Footage is one thing but actual fight footage is entirely different,right?If you have a gem or two I'll reward you handsomely,as would most fans

Seriously,Im glad the oldies get mentions and they should be discussed.A bit misdirected to ignore them simply because their is not footage or we have not seen them fight.They paved the way.But it's important to keep in perspective Imo.

[Taeth]

Says four in the history of boxing book.they all varya bit dont they, box rec gets it wrong half time.
Also says Benny Leonard died in the ring while refereeing 17th april 1947 nicholas arena new york.

I know that with the help of Leonard that Tunney beat Greb twice... or maybe 3 out of 5 because he said those wins were more important to him than beating Dempsey.

[Spicoli]

Says four in the history of boxing book.they all varya bit dont they, box rec gets it wrong half time.
Also says Benny Leonard died in the ring while refereeing 17th april 1947 nicholas arena new york.

I think Boxrec is only good for dates and results (sometimes ),Isn't it like Wikipedia where anyone with an account can just add on info ??I read a piece/ article that Tunney was demanding of a rematch....posted a bond to secure it only days later??Maybe we should call Sugar

[Andre]

Heres what it says on Gene
Gene Tunny:
Born Joseph Tunny 25th may 1897 New york. turned pro at 18 but after a few wins was drafted into the marines.
Where he was posted overseas and got plenty of boxing practice.
Back in America in 1919 he continued his winning ways up until he took the light heavyweight crown from the batttling levinski in 1922.
Four months later losing it to Harry Greb over a fifteen round beating.
But Tunney worked out how to beat Greb and did soon four future occasions with Greb comming to the dressing rooms after the last and saying "I never want fight you again". ( I got that ass way around in my above post).

Then went into the heavyweight and took that, then defended it only twice and retired.
77 fights one loss.
married a wealthy socialite heiress bacame a wealthy buisnesman hung around with Bernard Shaw etc and lived till he was 81 dying in Greenwich Conneecticut 7th Nov 1978.

Good life for an ex boxer .

[Andre]

Says four in the history of boxing book.they all varya bit dont they, box rec gets it wrong half time.
Also says Benny Leonard died in the ring while refereeing 17th april 1947 nicholas arena new york.

I think Boxrec is only good for dates and results (sometimes ),Isn't it like Wikipedia where anyone with an account can just add on info ??I read a piece/ article that Tunney was demanding of a rematch....posted a bond to secure it only days later??Maybe we should call Sugar

Says here, he got his nose broken in the first round took a beating for fifteen and was in bed for week afterwards.
Good on him wanting more revenge and getting it!

[Spicoli]

Heres what it says on Gene
Gene Tunny:
Born Joseph Tunny 25th may 1897 New york. turned pro at 18 but after a few wins was drafted into the marines.
Where he was posted overseas and got plenty of boxing practice.
Back in America in 1919 he continued his winning ways up until he took the light heavyweight crown from the batttling levinski in 1922.
Four months later losing it to Harry Greb over a fifteen round beating.
But Tunney worked out how to beat Greb and did soon four future occasions with Greb comming to the dressing rooms after the last and saying "I never want fight you again". ( I got that ass way around in my above post).

Then went into the heavyweight and took that, then defended it only twice and retired.
77 fights one loss.
married a wealthy socialite heiress bacame a wealthy buisnesman hung around with Bernard Shaw etc and lived till he was 81 dying in Greenwich Conneecticut 7th Nov 1978.

Good life for an ex boxer .

Good stuff,Think about that.He was only 31 and fresh off his biggest win of career.....or biggest known win?But retired.Did not know that he was also a veteran of WWII,wonder if he saw action in France.But yes,according to all accounts....Greb rightfully muffed him up bad in the 1st fight.Sounds brutal.

[Andre]

Heres what it says on Gene
Gene Tunny:
Born Joseph Tunny 25th may 1897 New york. turned pro at 18 but after a few wins was drafted into the marines.
Where he was posted overseas and got plenty of boxing practice.
Back in America in 1919 he continued his winning ways up until he took the light heavyweight crown from the batttling levinski in 1922.
Four months later losing it to Harry Greb over a fifteen round beating.
But Tunney worked out how to beat Greb and did soon four future occasions with Greb comming to the dressing rooms after the last and saying "I never want fight you again". ( I got that ass way around in my above post).

Then went into the heavyweight and took that, then defended it only twice and retired.
77 fights one loss.
married a wealthy socialite heiress bacame a wealthy buisnesman hung around with Bernard Shaw etc and lived till he was 81 dying in Greenwich Conneecticut 7th Nov 1978.

Good life for an ex boxer .

Good stuff,Think about that.He was only 31 and fresh off his biggest win of career.....or biggest known win?But retired.Did not know that he was also a vetran of WWII,wonder if he saw action in France.But yes,according to all accounts....Greb rightfully muffed him up bad in the 1st fight.Sounds brutal.

But the biggest plus for me is that Greb did it all in the finish with one eye!