Did the Mayweather fight finish Oscar?

I remember feeling this when watching Oscar fighting Steve Forbes, and I think it is apparent now. That night against Floyd, Oscar gave it all he could against a guy who was having a bad night by his standards, and still lost and was out-boxed. Mentally I think this scarred him more than other defeat, where he could claim bad judging (Trinidad/Mosley) or problems with size (B-Hop), because he lost to a smaller guy at 'his' weight despite giving it his best. I feel this is what has made him gun-shy. Anyway I wanna see what everyone else feels about this?

* Just to specify I'm talkin bout what mentally finished him, not what physically deteriorated ODLH. Also Pac-fans, this is NOT a Pac bashing post, any guy who goes and beats a legend, even a faded one, 40lbs higher than where he began his career deserves all the credit he is currently getting in my book.

I think fighting once a year for most of the better half of a decade, his age, weight jumping, ring wars he has been in, long amateur career, all finally caught up to him. It is the fate of almost any fighter. I think he has been on the slide but the slide got a lot steeper the other night.

Match ups make fights, I just think people can't handle that Pacquiao is actually as good as he is.

a lot of things caught up to oscar I think. oscar had lost his speed, reflexes, his inactivity over the years also hurt him, plus the shoulder injury limited him further and the weight in my opinion was the last straw, he just looked so weak. taking nothing away from pacquio's victory. to me manny is the fighter of this decade ahead of floyd imo.

De la Hoya came to fight against floyd and although even in defeat got his tactics spot on and came so close to pulling it off.

But 2 years can do a lot to a man of 37 and i think oscar realised quite early on against pacquiao he just didnt have it in him to keep up with that kind of pace that he managed quite well against PBF.

Dont wanna take too much away from an awesome pacquiao but ODLH just came at him in straight lines and made himself an easy target throughout the fight which he clearly didnt do against floyd.


so to answer your question.........NO

NO, his fight with Pac did.:cool:

Suddenly the "I won't fight anymore Puerto Ricans" quote all makes sense...also the avoidance of Margarito makes sense as well.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

I remember feeling this when watching Oscar fighting Steve Forbes, and I think it is apparent now. That night against Floyd, Oscar gave it all he could against a guy who was having a bad night by his standards, and still lost and was out-boxed. Mentally I think this scarred him more than other defeat, where he could claim bad judging (Trinidad/Mosley) or problems with size (B-Hop), because he lost to a smaller guy at 'his' weight despite giving it his best. I feel this is what has made him gun-shy. Anyway I wanna see what everyone else feels about this?

* Just to specify I'm talkin bout what mentally finished him, not what physically deteriorated ODLH. Also Pac-fans, this is NOT a Pac bashing post, any guy who goes and beats a legend, even a faded one, 40lbs higher than where he began his career deserves all the credit he is currently getting in my book.

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You may be right dude... But DURING and after Pac fight, we've all clearly seen DLH was mentally badly injured... Specially after rd.8 when his corner is asking whether they should wave off the fight, man, have you seen DLH face? He looked shocked and his body language showed that he just want to quit the fight... As you have said that whether PBF finished off DLH mentally? You may be right but after he loses to Pac? Absolutely nothing more left on mental strength... With all due of respect, IMO the great GoldenBoy should stop here and just pursue the promoting career...

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Suddenly the "I won't fight anymore Puerto Ricans" quote all makes sense...also the avoidance of Margarito makes sense as well.

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Add to that avoiding Vernon Forrest and Corey Spinks (as laughable as a fight against Spinks may seem).

It was the shoulder injury first and foremost,that jab hasnt looked the same since then.
He just couldnt keep Pac Man off him with that half hearted jab,Pac had nothing to fear from it.
His legs are toast as well,he doesnt cut angles,and he's not fast enough to dance out.
Oscar was never the heaviest handed puncher in the world anyway,but he needed power to make Pac respect his punches. And then he comes in weight drained to boot.
The whole thing is a recipe for disaster,when your training an older fighter,you dont want,you need them to have the heavier hands,to make up for their lack of speed.
Didnt happen
Pac actually had the heavier hands.
Lets face it,even if it was only a ghost of Oscar in his prime,Pac whupped the hell out of him

The thing is he just didn't look like he wanted to throw punches, not against Pac, or even against Forbes, who as much I like him for his chin, was basically in there as a glorified sparring partner that night. In the Mayweather fight, he actually threw more punches than PBF, even if he was significantly outlanded. To make it worse Mayweather had a bad night by his standards & still beat him. I just think this would weigh heavily on a guy like Oscar's mind, because like many boxers he believes he is the best, & yet was beaten by a guy not on top form. I know he obviously had physical problems going into the fight with Pac, but his reluctance to throw a punch was embarassing.

Again to make it clear, I'm not trying to question Pac's performance, which was amazing, but looking at why ODLH was so afraid to throw punches

Actually Oscar did do well if he was fighting floyd again. Oscar threw about 400 while pac throw 580 in 8 rounds. He was outgunned by about 200 and pacs accuracy was insane 59% power punch landed. while oscar could barely land, his total landed punch was only around 20%. Even if you are that much bigger then pac thats not going to get it done. Did oscar think pac wouldn't be the same whirlwind his always been at 147? Did he think it would be like fighting floyd, one punch at a time or momentary flurries while close to the ropes? It wasn't just the speed of pac it was the pace. after the second round oscar realize his not prepared for pacs speed AND PACE. he wasn't gun shy he was outgunned. i think he threw as much as he did during the floyd fight in 8 rounds. Pac finish off oscar, the floyd fight barely put a dent on oscar. Some people even though oscar won that fight so how could it have finish him off ;D

I doubt that fight ruined him but it did make him start to see that he just doesn't have it...well at least not enough of it to beat any of the top guys anymore, and no one wants to see him fight lesser guys anymore.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Actually Oscar did do well if he was fighting floyd again. Oscar threw about 400 while pac throw 580 in 8 rounds. He was outgunned by about 200 and pacs accuracy was insane 59% power punch landed. while oscar could barely land, his total landed punch was only around 20%. Even if you are that much bigger then pac thats not going to get it done. Did oscar think pac wouldn't be the same whirlwind his always been at 147? Did he think it would be like fighting floyd, one punch at a time or momentary flurries while close to the ropes? It wasn't just the speed of pac it was the pace. after the second round oscar realize his not prepared for pacs speed AND PACE. he wasn't gun shy he was outgunned. i think he threw as much as he did during the floyd fight in 8 rounds. Pac finish off oscar, the floyd fight barely put a dent on oscar. Some people even though oscar won that fight so how could it have finish him off ;D

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For the last time I'm NOT saying the fight physically finished him, I'm saying it made him doubt himself in such a way for the 1st time MENTALLY. I am not talking about how good Pac was, I'm reflecting on Oscar's performance in both that fight & the Forbes one. If those punch stats are true & Oscar was throwing as many punches I stand corrected. IMO the Mayweather fight was the first to really make him doubt his own ability, & I'm aware some people believe he won it, but how he talked after the Forbes fight made me believe that he himself thought he'd lost. Again, I'm not Moono trying to downplay Pac, but Oscar just looked frightened the other night, & I think that defeat got to him more than any other, even if it was one the least physically damaging fights he had

I don't think it finished him, but I think in retrospect you could see he was past it. I really think a prime Oscar would have beaten Floyd on that night. The prime Oscar would have pumped the jab and could throw fast combinations that we didn't see on that night. There were opportunities for him to win, but he could not pull the trigger. I think that is what Roach was talking about leading up to the fight with Manny. Oscar could not explain why he didn't throw the jab more after the fight, I think it was that his reflexes were nearly shot (at least to where he could compete with an elite fighter in his prime). Mayweather is a cautious defensive fighter by nature; had he had the stones to step up the pace and be more aggressive the way Manny did, Floyd might have been able to whip Oscar as bad as Manny did.

Being a part-time fighter finished Oscar. He got progressively worse over his last few fights.

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Suddenly the "I won't fight anymore Puerto Ricans" quote all makes sense...also the avoidance of Margarito makes sense as well.

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Add to that avoiding Vernon Forrest and Corey Spinks (as laughable as a fight against Spinks may seem).

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Are you guys serious? Spinks was never even remotely a serious economic commodity, and Forrest lost his chance at a fight with Oscar by losing to Mayorga. The only guy who you could reasonably say Oscar should have fought was Winky, but Winky's style made him more of a fringe guy as far as the general public was concerned. Oscar fought pretty much everyone. Look at his record and find me another contemporary fighter who fought more quality opponents than Oscar did. You won't be able to find one.

I really thought for Pac to have a chance in this fight...Oscar had to come in either weight drained or shot. The whole weight issue really confused me...no idea why he came in so light...but it clearly didn't help his chances. But it was also clear that he just didn't have it in him right from the onset. He threw his jab half heartedly even in the beginning of the fight. He was completely flat footed and lethargic. Does that discount what Pac accomplished...absolutely not. Pac had the perfect gameplan and physical ability to be a nightmare for THIS version of Oscar. Props to Roach (who i have been a critic of) for not only preparing Pac well...but for also stating before the fight that Oscar no longer had it.

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Match ups make fights, I just think people can't handle that Pacquiao is actually as good as he is.

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Yes, Pac is good and I have mentioned that in different ocassions. But also, when ODLH beat Julio Cesar Chavez, was ODLH good? Of course! But also, was J.C. Chavez in his prime? Nope, he was way passed his prime. But still, ODLH beating the legendary JC Chavez looked great regardless of Chavez being old and passed his prime. Same thing with Pac. I can see him beating many big names out there that are in their primes. That will impress me more than his fight with and old passed-his-prime wasted ODLH. Even Pac and his team knew that ODLH was old and worn out at this stage of his career.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Actually Oscar did do well if he was fighting floyd again. Oscar threw about 400 while pac throw 580 in 8 rounds. He was outgunned by about 200 and pacs accuracy was insane 59% power punch landed. while oscar could barely land, his total landed punch was only around 20%. Even if you are that much bigger then pac thats not going to get it done. Did oscar think pac wouldn't be the same whirlwind his always been at 147? Did he think it would be like fighting floyd, one punch at a time or momentary flurries while close to the ropes? It wasn't just the speed of pac it was the pace. after the second round oscar realize his not prepared for pacs speed AND PACE. he wasn't gun shy he was outgunned. i think he threw as much as he did during the floyd fight in 8 rounds. Pac finish off oscar, the floyd fight barely put a dent on oscar. Some people even though oscar won that fight so how could it have finish him off ;D

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For the last time I'm NOT saying the fight physically finished him, I'm saying it made him doubt himself in such a way for the 1st time MENTALLY. I am not talking about how good Pac was, I'm reflecting on Oscar's performance in both that fight & the Forbes one. If those punch stats are true & Oscar was throwing as many punches I stand corrected. IMO the Mayweather fight was the first to really make him doubt his own ability, & I'm aware some people believe he won it, but how he talked after the Forbes fight made me believe that he himself thought he'd lost. Again, I'm not Moono trying to downplay Pac, but Oscar just looked frightened the other night, & I think that defeat got to him more than any other, even if it was one the least physically damaging fights he had

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I did notice you said in the title the floyd fight finish oscar then did state you meant mentally. I disagree, how could it have mentally finish him if he just lost a s.d. fight to the p4p king at the time? How could he doubt himself if some people thought he won that fight. I really dont think you have a valid point, what did make him doubt himself was the bhop lost. If you said that you would make more sense. That im sure made him think twice about fighting bigger guys and even the Sturm fight he should of lost. I think the floyd fight did nothing negative to him, REALLY man he just went 12 rounds and lost a close decision with the p4p king plus his in his mid 30!. I'd say he would of thought he aint doing bad for his age. heres a link where it shows the punch stats for pac vs oscar. honestly 400 thrown for oscar in 8 rounds is about average for him for the past few years. dont you think? 3:30 minutes into this vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Bg7...eature=related

Some of my posts will seem like I'm a Pac hater. This is not the case, I quite like him but He beat an old Legend who is nowhere near the man he was when he was the welterweight champ and IMO that Oscar would have taught him a true lesson!

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Some of my posts will seem like I'm a Pac hater. This is not the case, I quite like him but He beat an old Legend who is nowhere near the man he was when he was the welterweight champ and IMO that Oscar would have taught him a true lesson!

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oscar would of had trouble with that much speed and that intense of a pace, no matter how old oscar was. Pac didn't just beat oscar, what counts more is that he look great at 147. Anybody would have trouble with pacs speed and pace.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Some of my posts will seem like I'm a Pac hater. This is not the case, I quite like him but He beat an old Legend who is nowhere near the man he was when he was the welterweight champ and IMO that Oscar would have taught him a true lesson!

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oscar would of had trouble with that much speed and that intense of a pace, no matter how old oscar was. Pac didn't just beat oscar, what counts more is that he look great at 147. Anybody would have trouble with pacs speed and pace.

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Do you know what it means to have a boxer passed his prime? Sure, Pac is good and all but he beat an old ODLH. What looks good here is that he beat, well, OSCAR DE LA HOYA and not "an old and passed his prime" ODLH. We have seen other legends do the same mistake of staying in the ring longer then they should only to have a young prospect beat them and look great regardless of that legend being old, worned out, passed his prime.
Pac seems to be going through the right path. We will see more exciting fights. There are lots of big names out there that are young and IN THEIR PRIME. Looking forward to those fights.

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Some of my posts will seem like I'm a Pac hater. This is not the case, I quite like him but He beat an old Legend who is nowhere near the man he was when he was the welterweight champ and IMO that Oscar would have taught him a true lesson!

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oscar would of had trouble with that much speed and that intense of a pace, no matter how old oscar was. Pac didn't just beat oscar, what counts more is that he look great at 147. Anybody would have trouble with pacs speed and pace.

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Do you know what it means to have a boxer passed his prime? Sure, Pac is good and all but he beat an old ODLH. What looks good here is that he beat, well, OSCAR DE LA HOYA and not "an old and passed his prime" ODLH. We have seen other legends do the same mistake of staying in the ring longer then they should only to have a young prospect beat them and look great regardless of that legend being old, worned out, passed his prime.
Pac seems to be going through the right path. We will see more exciting fights. There are lots of big names out there that are young and IN THEIR PRIME. Looking forward to those fights.

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uhh whats your point? he did beat an old delahoya, do you get the fact that a former featherweight just beat a former middleweight and showed he had all his attributes with him in this division 147? The name delahoya is given already. What you need to get is a guy who started his career at 106 looked just as fast jsut as strong and isn't being slown down by addition weight at WELTERWEIGHT. Quit trying to stress oscar is past his prime and is old. Your predictable, pac didn't just beat dela hoya he look just as awesome at 147 and that is the most impressive part.

I agree with Brucelee. Pac finished Oscar, not Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by ClubberLang

I don't think it finished him, but I think in retrospect you could see he was past it. I really think a prime Oscar would have beaten Floyd on that night. The prime Oscar would have pumped the jab and could throw fast combinations that we didn't see on that night. There were opportunities for him to win, but he could not pull the trigger. I think that is what Roach was talking about leading up to the fight with Manny. Oscar could not explain why he didn't throw the jab more after the fight, I think it was that his reflexes were nearly shot (at least to where he could compete with an elite fighter in his prime). Mayweather is a cautious defensive fighter by nature; had he had the stones to step up the pace and be more aggressive the way Manny did, Floyd might have been able to whip Oscar as bad as Manny did.

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Be fair. Floyd would never lay a whooping on Oscar that bad. Floyd is limited with his offense. Only reason Floyd could knock out Hatton, was because Hatton wouldn't try to save face and box/survive. He knew he had to knock him out to win, so he just kept pushing the pace and coming in.

Manny WILL beat Floyd if his broke a$$ comes out of retirement.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

oscar would of had trouble with that much speed and that intense of a pace, no matter how old oscar was. Pac didn't just beat oscar, what counts more is that he look great at 147. Anybody would have trouble with pacs speed and pace.

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Do you know what it means to have a boxer passed his prime? Sure, Pac is good and all but he beat an old ODLH. What looks good here is that he beat, well, OSCAR DE LA HOYA and not "an old and passed his prime" ODLH. We have seen other legends do the same mistake of staying in the ring longer then they should only to have a young prospect beat them and look great regardless of that legend being old, worned out, passed his prime.
Pac seems to be going through the right path. We will see more exciting fights. There are lots of big names out there that are young and IN THEIR PRIME. Looking forward to those fights.

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uhh whats your point? he did beat an old delahoya, do you get the fact that a former featherweight just beat a former middleweight and showed he had all his attributes with him in this division 147? The name delahoya is given already. What you need to get is a guy who started his career at 106 looked just as fast jsut as strong and isn't being slown down by addition weight at WELTERWEIGHT. Quit trying to stress oscar is past his prime and is old. Your predictable, pac didn't just beat dela hoya he look just as awesome at 147 and that is the most impressive part.

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WORD!
Except Manny is probably more like a Super Flyweight (in a way that sounds heavier than Featherweight, b/c of the "super", you know?)

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uhh whats your point? he did beat an old delahoya

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I am not saying he didn't.

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Quit trying to stress oscar is past his prime and is old. Your predictable, pac didn't just beat dela hoya he look just as awesome at 147 and that is the most impressive part.

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Just tell me something, was ODLH young and in his prime? When ODLH beat Chavez, was Chavez young and in his prime? When Mike Tyson fought Kevin McNight, was Tyson in his prime? Same thing with Ali vs Berbick, Leonard vs Camacho, and the list goes on. Imagine if all those guys faced the big names 5 years earlier? ;) Did you see the De La Hoya vs Pac 24/7 thing? Even Pac and Team Pac knew Oscar was old, worned-out, passed his prime, etc. Freddy Roach mentioned that more than a couple of times during interviews and what not. Did Pac fans suddenly missed that part? Then again, I am not surprised after seeing how Pac fans got totally excited when he beat a guy like Diaz. What I can tell you is that Pac faced a Marquez in his prime that beat him twice already. There are bunch of other young guys in their prime that Pac could face along the road. I am looking forward to those more than seeing Pac face old worned-out fighters and I can assure you boxing fans prefer the same.
Beating a BIG NAME even if he's out of his prime, worned-out, old, etc. Simply builds lot of excitement and it works as a great resume builder.

Listen people keep saying how pacman started at 106 but lest not for get he was 16 years old not a full grown man yet he is about the same size as Mayweather is i mean come on you are much bigger then you were at 16. When Oscar and Mayweather were at 130 they were like in early 20s and that still was not the size they should of been at i think people forget that when they bring up the weight classes and how many people move up look at the age it while show if the weight seems light they were young and that is the reason they were at that weight and nothing more.

I don't think the Mayweather fight finished him, he didn't take a beating or anything but imo he did lose clearly.

i feel that the long layoffs between fights weren't good for him and having to drain himself to make 147 was not good for him and it showed.

Oscar should retire.

What finished Oscar was his age and the fact he fought 1 time a year i mean what fighter does that none do and it while make you rusty. Oscar was somthing when he was fighting 10 years ago but i tell you what his choices were good for money but also kinda not great for staying sharp.