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Well I asked about Cotto, but what about Margo? Did he possibly peak there and will we start seeing a decent? It's too easy to speculate after his next fight so leave the "we will see after his next fight" stuff out what are your thoughts currently does he have few more years or was that the pinnacle for him?
Nope.Buckle up,09' is going to be great
Best way to find out is to have a rematch with P. Williams.
We will really have to wait and see. I hope not he has some big fights comming and waiting too long for him to fall short now.
Yes, its just a case of wait and see. Some age quicker than others and others just go on and on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Im not particularly enamoured of Margaritos skills so his chin better continue to hold itself in accord.
Whether or not he peaked I don't think he will have much longer in the ring. He takes too much punishment and I don't think he has the style to adapt a water tight defence in the style of say a Mayweather.
I think he will be far too much for the aged Mosley though.
no he has not peaked...Or we could actually say he is at his peak, Yiou guys kill me with this stuff, especially with the whole Paul Williams thing....
It just shows when there is nothing else you have to glimpse at one thing and overlook everything else.....
As for Paul Williams....What has he done?...Myself and anyone else in the boxing world outside of Maragrito hater's have failed to see how he dominated the fight with Tony...He won but did not dominate...Then he lost to Quintana....
Catching a fighter in the first round in a rematch does not show anything....Williams early on looked suspect against Phillips....That says something about him and it is not positive...Verno is on his way out...WTF is Williams going to do against the young guys coming up?...Guys his come out to try and KO them early plan does not work...Guys who want him to go to war....and have the chin to bring him there.....
Margarito has not only beaten but dominated two of boxing's hardest hitters and landed at will on both...
You are the same guys who said Cotto was goiing to walk all over him....
Give it up....If people are going to criticize a fighter that is fine but try actually criticizing something of value....
Maybe speed, lack of movement...anything but do not use Williams, his chin or he takes too much abuse as your strong points....
It sounds ignorant....You guys are better posters then that...I expect to see post like that on ESB...
My point that he takes too much punishment is not a dig at him. In fact far from it! I think that he does take too many hard shots to have a long career at the top but I'll enjoy him while he's here, whether he's at his peak or not really doesn't interest me. The bottom line is I'm excited by the guy and he keeps on proving me wrong because yes I did go for Cotto by decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
I would hope you were a better poster than this drivel, did Chavez dominate Meldrick Taylor because he stopped him? Once again getting badly outboxed for 6 rounds in a row isn't dominating a fight regardless of how it turns out. I give him all the credit in the world for beating Cotto, but he did not dominate him, what Pacquiao did to De La Hoya is domination. Regardless of all your babel, Williams made Margarito look clueless for most of the fight, Margarito had no idea how to land on a guy who is pretty easy to hit. He couldn't deal with the footspeed or punch out put. You are asking what Paul Williams has done, my question is who has been willing to fight Paul Williams? Margarito hasn't been, even Pavlik backed out of a fight with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
All in all lets get back to some form of relevance, and Margarito doesn't seem to be past his peak at all, he is getting better technically if anything, and his physical attributes don't include speed so he doesn't need to really worry about slowing down a bit. I also don't think for him that he has taken a whole lot of punishment, I think he has been hit a lot, but some guys can just take it.
No Chavez was lucky to recieve the stoppage win in that fight we all know that...That is a terrible comparison.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethI would hope you were a better poster than this drivel, did Chavez dominate Meldrick Taylor because he stopped him? Once again getting badly outboxed for 6 rounds in a row isn't dominating a fight regardless of how it turns out. I give him all the credit in the world for beating Cotto, but he did not dominate him, what Pacquiao did to De La Hoya is domination. Regardless of all your babel, Williams made Margarito look clueless for most of the fight, Margarito had no idea how to land on a guy who is pretty easy to hit. He couldn't deal with the footspeed or punch out put. You are asking what Paul Williams has done, my question is who has been willing to fight Paul Williams? Margarito hasn't been, even Pavlik backed out of a fight with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
All in all lets get back to some form of relevance, and Margarito doesn't seem to be past his peak at all, he is getting better technically if anything, and his physical attributes don't include speed so he doesn't need to really worry about slowing down a bit. I also don't think for him that he has taken a whole lot of punishment, I think he has been hit a lot, but some guys can just take it.
Tony was sluggish in the Williams fight....He was in no way perplexed by him....I am not taking away from Williams win in any way because it was a good win but to say Paul Williams confused Tony and to Say Paul Williams is the most feared fighter in boxing is just stupid.....Why because he does not get the fights he wants when he ask for them?...
If you in any way think Kelly Pavlik is avoiding Paul Williams or backed out of a Williams fight for any such reason you need your head examined....
Who the hell is Paul Williams to just walk into the MW division and garner a title shot?....With the ring champion no less......
Williams has not even taken over one division let alone deserve to be demanding shots at someone who has basicly beaten the shit out of every man he has faced with the exception of Hopkins....
I suppose if Williams calls out B-Hop and Hopkins declines the fight it is because he fears Williams?.....
Williams who has williams been beating to garner the respect he gets as a feared fighter?
He is 1 and 1 with Quintana
He beat an aging Phillips....Look at Williams in between the first two rounds he looked confused and worried....Verno's age caught him and he could not avoid punches...That was Williams strong point in truth...Hell Verno fell to the same fate against Kassim Ouma...only difference is Ouma has no power for the ref to feel the stoppage was needed....
Andy Kolle?...C'mon.....need I say more....
No One can credit him for stopping Mitchell because Mitchell was on the down slide majorly was stopped in 2 of his previous 4 and had fought 3 times in 2 years...
hHis only other big win was over Matthysse...Walter had a resume of Bar Drunks...Hell Thomas Daamguard would call his record padded.....
I don't think Willaims beats Spinks if Cory comes in on his game...
Williams is not what everyone thinks...inside of 2 years he will be exposed for what he really is....Pavlik would murder him
Regardless of what you think, Margarito also isn't all that great himself, WIlliams plainly beat him, Santons plainly beat him, he isn't all that great. I am not saying he is a bad fighter, but he isn't the best welterweight in the world, and he isn't one of the best p4p fighters in the world. I have never seen a fighter get more credit for one fight that went the way his fight did with Cotto as he has. People seem to forget the way Cotto totally outboxed him for half the fight. Paul Williams will do a lot more with his career than Margarito will do his, I think you are very much underestimating Williams, he's huge, extremely fast, and he is a good fighter, he definitely needs to work on his defense, but once agian people aren't fighting him, the reason his competition after Margarito has been so poor is because people won't fight him.
Daxx say all you want about Williams, he beat Margarito clearly, people can say Margarito was sluggish or started too late but when Margarito needed a round, the final round, Williams came back and took it. Now maybe Margarito's learned a lesson from that, to start earlier, but that just makes a rematch more appealing.
I didn't see him having trouble with Verno personally. Sure Verno was old, but Paul did what he needed to do. And he had a slipup against a replacement in Quintana and came back and handled it emphatically.
I'm not even a fan, I'm just saying if you wanna dissect a guy's record badly enough you can do it to practically anybody, same as the Floyd fans who used to constantly talk about Margarito's early losses.
If they stayed at 47 that's the fight, but I assume Tony's people think a Cotto rematch is more appealing, for understandable reasons, money.
I think he has been in his prime. He was against Lujuan, Cottey, Cintron, Williams, Cotto. Losing a decision does not mean he wasnt at his best, it was because he didnt do enough, not because he couldnt. His relexes, speed, chin, power, legs, have all been the same for the last few years. I think he came into his prime somewhere after the Antonio Diaz fight, and has been since. All the fights could catch up with him, and will eventually, but that has yet to be seen.
He couldn't find Williams, he is always as slow as he was against Williams, just the other guys he fought weren't that quick.
Have to disagree on Santos OR Williams plainly beating him??Ive said for the longest that yes,Williams fought a great fight vs. Margarito and deserved the decision,albeit close but to suggest that it was one sided...ecspecially down the stretch is off when Tony was landing the more effective shots.And the Santos fight....HUH?In no way was that a clear cut victory for Santos,Margarito was coming on in a big way and I believe he was actually on his way to stopping Santos with him hung up on the ropes when The Technicality came in.Margarito does not fade,he gets stronger as fights go on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I dont follow the Williams will do more than Tony in his career logic either.Just a little premature I believe.Margarito has a buffet of big fight options and is about to clash with one of the biggest marquee talents in the last # of years in Mosley and a very lucrative rematch with Cotto.Williams seemingly can not make up his mind as to what Division he belongs and is bouncing back & forth looking for a biggie......calling out Tony's name?Frankly...I have come around on Williams b bit,I like his style ,even if its all wrong for his frame and speed.One of the few times he fought tall and utilized his range well was vs. Margarito but more often than not he plays the pressure guy,leans over and catches far to many shots while putting out a mass volume.
Once again, If Paul Williams wasn't being turned down by the big names at WW then he would fight at the weight no question, but people are willing to fight him, he isn't a big enough name, and he is a huge risk. The Santos fight was close, but Santos was ahead, he hurt Margarito to the body, he was winning the fight, and the Paul Williams vs Margarito fight wasn't that close. Margarito rallied late, but it was far too little too late. He won 3 or 4 rounds, but that IMO is being beaten rather easily that is a third or a quarter of the rounds he won.
Keep your opinion I will keep mine but tell ya what...Until he is dethroned at WW he is the Man at WW...Best boxer no I never said anything at any time ever about Tony being the best boxer....The best fighter now that is a different story...No one is knocking Tony out,,,No one is stopping him and anyone from 140-154 that tries to slug with him Including Williams,,,,Gets knocked the Phuk out!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Bump, looking to hear on some others opinions on the original subject
I really do not think he peaked.
And think he will have a great 2009.
Why do you ahve to slug it out to beat someone? Mayweather would make easy work of Tony by staying outside Tony's effective range(which is with you on the ropes and him right on you). He doesn't have the throne at WW, he beat Cotto who is a great fighter, but thats one guy in the deepest division in boxing, you have to do more than that to be the best in the division because even Cotto was the ring WW champion. Right now Margarito is the best contender in the WW division when Paul is fighting north of it and Mayweather remains retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnKeep your opinion I will keep mine but tell ya what...Until he is dethroned at WW he is the Man at WW...Best boxer no I never said anything at any time ever about Tony being the best boxer....The best fighter now that is a different story...No one is knocking Tony out,,,No one is stopping him and anyone from 140-154 that tries to slug with him Including Williams,,,,Gets knocked the Phuk out!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think Tony is at his peak now.
I think a fight with Paul Williams is pretty even at this point...I also agree that Pavlik would open a can of whup ass on Paul...
Tony takes alot of shots during fights so I could see him as start to slow a bit after this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethWhy do you ahve to slug it out to beat someone? Mayweather would make easy work of Tony by staying outside Tony's effective range(which is with you on the ropes and him right on you). He doesn't have the throne at WW, he beat Cotto who is a great fighter, but thats one guy in the deepest division in boxing, you have to do more than that to be the best in the division because even Cotto was the ring WW champion. Right now Margarito is the best contender in the WW division when Paul is fighting north of it and Mayweather remains retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnKeep your opinion I will keep mine but tell ya what...Until he is dethroned at WW he is the Man at WW...Best boxer no I never said anything at any time ever about Tony being the best boxer....The best fighter now that is a different story...No one is knocking Tony out,,,No one is stopping him and anyone from 140-154 that tries to slug with him Including Williams,,,,Gets knocked the Phuk out!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
:confused::confused::confused:.....That makes no sense.....He beats Cotto who was considered the best WW in the division yet he is not considered the top fighter in the division?....Yet in your opp...Williams who is now campaigning at 154 is ranked above him at 147???.....
Have you been drinking your New Years champaign early Teath?..
You are actualy using a retired fighter in your arguement.....PBF is gone...finished...bye.....
Thats like me saying PBF was the best in the WW division and P4P fighter in boxing while Ray Robinson remained dead:rolleyes:
If you, Daxx, were paying attention to anything you would know that Mayweather is coming back. He has plainly stated he is looking for the biggest fight available at any weight. Also I, among others, would flatly argue that
1) Cotto wasn't necessarily the best WW in the world, Paul Williams has a valid argument as long as he is willing to fight at WW when he gets the oppertunity.
2) P. Williams isn't campaigning at JR MW, but fighting there because Margarito won't fight him.
3) You can call Margarito the top guy at Ww, but in this current situation he is not the linear champ, he is not recognized as the ring champ either, thus he is the top guy in the division but that is different being in the position Mayweather was in before he retired. There is a difference between being the top spot in the division and being the best fighter in the division. Clottey would argue MArgarito's top spot, Williams would, Cotto would like a rematch as well. Margarito position is also very precarious because whenever Williams or Mayweather feel like dropping in then Margarito drops to #3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
At the end of the day though, Mayweather is not back yet, and Williams is not in WW division at the moment. Margo beat Clottey and Cotto so that makes him the top guy until the other two decide to get back in. What if's, maybe's, hopefullys or otherwise dont count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
At the end of the day though, Mayweather is not back yet, and Williams is not in WW division at the moment. Margo beat Clottey and Cotto so that makes him the top guy until the other two decide to get back in. What if's, maybe's, hopefullys or otherwise dont count.
Thank You!.....