Tyson vs Holyfield - who of them is better fighter?

Good day. Happy New Year to everyone I wish!
All of us remember many disputes (all over the world) on Tyson and Lewis's theme who from them is greater or more legendary, and many other things. At present it is represented to me interesting to discuss "face to face" Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield, to discuss them not from the point of view of statistics and figures, titles, belts, comparison of opposition or records. To me interestingly what they were as boxers, are how much good or bad, than are good and than are not so good.
As to Mike in its best years, I saw in him very good aggressive “shorty” counterpuncher. With fine technics and skills, feeling of a distance and a rhythm in actions, fine feeling of the opponent. His technics and skills were almost ideally combined with his natural parametres. Then in due course Mike became easier, also more predicted, but on any very long remained terrible force.
Holyfield in cruiserweight and times of heavyweight differed a little. Despite the universality and brilliant skills being cruiser he didn’t hesitate to impose to contenders rate and without ceremony could break them physically, many times taking fight inside. Passing in heavyweight to him it was necessary to calm the passion though, but all the same there was an aspiration to combat "a bone in a bone" a little if it is most favourably for him.
They in a ring met twice, and both times the victory remained beyond Evander. The fact is also that in the second fight they have a little held back each other. I saw their career of professional boxers from beginning to end, and I dare to assert that in their fight in any years, taking into account their styles, merits and demerits, Evander it would appear more strongly and beat Mike any time, any place, anywhere.
What opinions are?

Easy! Evander beat Tyson twice easy! He fought better opposition than Tyson. In fact If Evander had retired after the second fight with Lennox I think he would be considered one of the greatest HW's of all time behind only the likes of Ali and Louis, but his unwillingness to call it a day is making a mockery of a once great champion.

I think Tyson was the greatest talent ever in the heavyweight division, in his prime I think he would have beaten anyone, so imo Tyson was the better fighter but unfortunitly his life outside the ring affected his performance inside the ring...

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Originally Posted by Phil

I think Tyson was the greatest talent ever in the heavyweight division, in his prime I think he would have beaten anyone, so imo Tyson was the better fighter but unfortunitly his life outside the ring affected his performance inside the ring...

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I take it when you say prime you mean 86-89? Normal boxers usually peak between 26-30 years old though.

Greatest ever talent? What world class opposition did he take on to give you that idea? Amir Khan looked terrific against a bunch of bums and then the same thing happened to him! He got found out against someone that shouldn't have been able to lace his gloves.

Damn Bonecrusher nearly sparked him in his so called prime and probably would if he had decided to fight before the last minute of the fight.

in fairness Khan looked talented but even in the amatures he was rocked by light punchers, Tyson had a great chin to go with his talent, Ive never seen a heavyweight that I thought would beat a prime Tyson, just my opinion though...

Over all I have to go with Evander....He was more versitile, Tyson was purly come forward, Evander proved to not crumble under adversity, Tyson did it several times...though Physically it is pretty difficult to tell...

Tyson was really only stopped when
1. He did not train for a fight...EG- Douglas....
2. Past his best years when all he did was look for the KO
3. When he just quit caring..EG- McBride bout

In his younger years he took some hellafied shots and kept going...Remember the Ruddock fight.

Speed--Tyson
Power--Tyson

Heart--Holyfield
Ability to adapt--Holyfield


Ahhh---Just too hard to decide...When thinking about them prime for prime

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Easy! Evander beat Tyson twice easy! He fought better opposition than Tyson. In fact If Evander had retired after the second fight with Lennox I think he would be considered one of the greatest HW's of all time behind only the likes of Ali and Louis, but his unwillingness to call it a day is making a mockery of a once great champion.

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I agree sadly enough

Have to go with Holyfield.Tysons handspeed was superb,tight package and was a formidable force coming forward...when things were going his way.They were set to meet in 1990,then Douglas layed Mike out.Again in 1991,then a busted rib (courtesy of sparring Oliver McCall I believe?) took Mike out of that one.Holyfield would have boxed more back then but I still think he would have beaten Mike.Had more intangibles.....mentally sound,footwork,stamina,combination punching,etc.He had his number,I think Tyson realized that in the rematch and resorted to going rabid dog on Holyfield.

Holyfield.

He beat Tyson twice.

Tyson after losing Cus D' Amato had doom written all over him. With that factor alone, it is hands down Holyfield, however much irritated I am to say so.

On his own, Tyson was only good to win against mediocre to mid-level opposition! He, as a man was manipulated to perform at less than optimum. He plodded on like a prized puppet, even looked thorazined at times in fights, especially against Holyfield 2. With DK pulling the strings, it was more like shows from "Barnum and Bailey" in the early years, than actual boxing matches!

Tyson had skills in the ring, and power that was hard to equal, that at some point, the "house" continuously lost tons of "moolah" in the betting game! Regardless of what odds are at stake, there is only one theme in betting. And there too, was only one result. Remember the Buster Douglas fight, after this one, Tyson was flushed!

Holyfield beat Tyson twice? Tyson was, when they finally met, reduced to a mere shadow of what should have been the real "Iron Mike".

This isn't even debatable of course Evander Holyfield, he was a 2 weight division champion beating names like.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi x2
Carlos De Leon
Mike Tyson x2
Michael Moorer
George Foreman
Larry Holmes
James Tillis
Ray Mercer
Riddick Bowe
Alex Stewart x2
Bert Cooper
Buster Douglas
Michael Dokes
Pinklon Thomas
Henry Tillman
Ossie Ocasio

Mike Tyson Best Wins.

Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
James Tillis
Larry Holmes
Pinklon Thomas
Trevor Berbick
Michael Spinks
James Smith
Frank Bruno
Carl Williams
Tony Tubbs
Henry Tillman
Razor Ruddock x2
Francois Botha
Marvis Frazier

Thread over IMO.

Prime Tyson would have wiped Holyfield, if they fought him after Ruddock before he went to jail, I still think he would have won that one too.

prime vs prime, Tyson wins the fight. comparing overall careers, I guess you have to go with Holyfield.

Well i have to say it is Evander Holyfeild and he beat the better people and also beat Tyson him self fact is i always thought Holyfeild would win he had Tysons number people say Tyson was past it be Evander was older and had a heart condtion also was in one of the most brutal fights in heavyweight history with Bowie Evander was just to mental tough for Tyson i mean yea Tyson was looking great fighting against bums but he never beat a elite Evander also showed that he never crumbled under pressure either.

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Originally Posted by Adler

Good day. Happy New Year to everyone I wish!
All of us remember many disputes (all over the world) on Tyson and Lewis's theme who from them is greater or more legendary, and many other things. At present it is represented to me interesting to discuss "face to face" Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield, to discuss them not from the point of view of statistics and figures, titles, belts, comparison of opposition or records. To me interestingly what they were as boxers, are how much good or bad, than are good and than are not so good.
As to Mike in its best years, I saw in him very good aggressive “shorty” counterpuncher. With fine technics and skills, feeling of a distance and a rhythm in actions, fine feeling of the opponent. His technics and skills were almost ideally combined with his natural parametres. Then in due course Mike became easier, also more predicted, but on any very long remained terrible force.
Holyfield in cruiserweight and times of heavyweight differed a little. Despite the universality and brilliant skills being cruiser he didn’t hesitate to impose to contenders rate and without ceremony could break them physically, many times taking fight inside. Passing in heavyweight to him it was necessary to calm the passion though, but all the same there was an aspiration to combat "a bone in a bone" a little if it is most favourably for him.
They in a ring met twice, and both times the victory remained beyond Evander. The fact is also that in the second fight they have a little held back each other. I saw their career of professional boxers from beginning to end, and I dare to assert that in their fight in any years, taking into account their styles, merits and demerits, Evander it would appear more strongly and beat Mike any time, any place, anywhere.
What opinions are?

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As for your question it's def. one that can be disected in so many different ways.
Skill wise I'd have to go with Tyson, because I think he was more versatile where as Holy became more of a warrior and often got into wars leaving his skills sidelined.
Career wise I'd have to go with Holy, longevity alone does it add the quality of opposition and he leaves Tyson in the dust.

Overall? Shit... I'd side with Holy.

Id go with Holyfield too

I was of the beleif that a prime Tyson could beat anybody but Evander just has more dimensions to him . He can do it all .Id lean towards evander but its a tough call

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Welcome aboard Adler you've just signed up the best boxing site on the net bar none...

Hope you stick around and remember protect yourself at all times. ;)

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Thank you, hope to be able do my best ;)

I always thought about clash between them in 1989. Mike was undisputed, Evan was growing up in heavyweight rattings. But Mike's shape was very under question than. Divorcing with Givens, Rooney was out. I suppose Holyfield coul broke him down if King get the fight than.

Where were Holyfield and Lewis when Mike was steamrolling the entire HW division?

In the late 80s, Mike beats any HW, alive or dead. Awesome power, hard chin, grit, etc.

That twot of a girl ruined his life and then it was over.

My opinion is that Holyfield is better than Tyson. Holyfield is a great athlete with a great heart, and great skills. He is a true warrior...

Tyson was great, he had speed, could chase his opponents passing punches and reaching spots with his head-torso movements, and most of all had a devastating power. However, Holyfield was a more complete fighter and who beat Tyson twice. I was amazed how fresh Holyfield looked at the end of the first fight... what an athlete... Holyfield also had to fight and beat bigger, stronger opponents without having Tyson's KO punch, but he could use his skills and heart to win.

I vote for Holyfield...

holyfield

At this moment:

Holyfield 16
Tyson 8
no choyce 2

Holyfield had longevity and a bigger heart than Tyson. Im a big fan of both but Holyfield was a bit better. Tyson was great for a couple years, but Holyfield was great for a couple decades.

Used to see the same sort of argument in chess all the time. With very little agreement. Who was the greatest chessplayer of all time?

Garry Kasparov of Russia was the #1 ranked player in the world for over 20 years. But Bobby Fischer of the USA, for about a five year period before he disappeared, dominated his contemporaries like no player before or since. Take your pick.

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

Where were Holyfield and Lewis when Mike was steamrolling the entire HW division?

In the late 80s, Mike beats any HW, alive or dead. Awesome power, hard chin, grit, etc.

That twot of a girl ruined his life and then it was over.

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Where was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.

And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

Where were Holyfield and Lewis when Mike was steamrolling the entire HW division?

In the late 80s, Mike beats any HW, alive or dead. Awesome power, hard chin, grit, etc.

That twot of a girl ruined his life and then it was over.

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Where was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.

And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?

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Nice answer! :goodpost:

Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.

I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Von Milash

Where were Holyfield and Lewis when Mike was steamrolling the entire HW division?

In the late 80s, Mike beats any HW, alive or dead. Awesome power, hard chin, grit, etc.

That twot of a girl ruined his life and then it was over.

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Where was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.

And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?

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Nice answer! :goodpost:

Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.

I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!

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We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by ICB

Where was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.

And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?

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Nice answer! :goodpost:

Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.

I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!

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We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

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Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Nice answer! :goodpost:

Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.

I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!

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We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

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Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

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OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by CGM

Used to see the same sort of argument in chess all the time. With very little agreement. Who was the greatest chessplayer of all time?

Garry Kasparov of Russia was the #1 ranked player in the world for over 20 years. But Bobby Fischer of the USA, for about a five year period before he disappeared, dominated his contemporaries like no player before or since. Take your pick.

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Very good comparison but like in Tyson case there wasn't any really competition for Fischer in that era
and if remember well the former champion Mihail Tall (one of the few “ATG” that he fought) had a positive score on him (4:1)
Therefore I’d pick Kasparov and Holyfield. ;)

I'd say from Amateurs to Pros Holyfield accomplished a lot more than Tyson, only thing Mike did that Holyfield didn't was become the youngest HW champion, yet hes a 2 division undisputed champion, IMO one of if not the greatest Cruiserweights ever, and well just the level of competition and ability to come back from diversity in and out of the ring (heart problem) overall makes him a better fighter

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Originally Posted by iwng100

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Originally Posted by CGM

Used to see the same sort of argument in chess all the time. With very little agreement. Who was the greatest chessplayer of all time?

Garry Kasparov of Russia was the #1 ranked player in the world for over 20 years. But Bobby Fischer of the USA, for about a five year period before he disappeared, dominated his contemporaries like no player before or since. Take your pick.

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Very good comparison but like in Tyson case there wasn't any really competition for Fischer in that era
and if remember well the former champion Mihail Tall (one of the few “ATG” that he fought) had a positive score on him (4:1)
Therefore I’d pick Kasparov and Holyfield. ;)

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:rolleyes: Oh Christ, this I did not want to debate. But ok, I'll bite.

Yes Kasparov had a longer run at the top. Yes he had Karpov to play against, who was very close to him in ability. But that begs the question, doesn't it?

Look at Fischer's winning percentage over the last five years of his career, and compare it to anyone in the twentieth century, including Kasparov.

Fischer's losses against Tal came early in his career, when Fischer was still in his teens.

To say that Fischer had no good competition is wrong.

But don't take my word for it. Check out what Kasparov himself had to say on the issue. And Kasparov is not one who is given to false modesty, believe me.

You can check my discussion with ICB for my Tyson support.

Montreal rocks! The Habs kind of suck though. ;)

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

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Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

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OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

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Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepatitas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weightclass. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not at Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Easy! Evander beat Tyson twice easy! He fought better opposition than Tyson. In fact If Evander had retired after the second fight with Lennox I think he would be considered one of the greatest HW's of all time behind only the likes of Ali and Louis, but his unwillingness to call it a day is making a mockery of a once great champion.

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Excellent post!!

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

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OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

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Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepititas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weight class. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

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Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

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Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepititas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weight class. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

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Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

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Im not trying to prove anything bro im just making a point thats it, its impossible to prove anything in mythical match ups. You can only speculate and i say Mike Tyson still got frustrated and lost concentration.

Even in his prime and you could see that against Jose Ribalta, when he couldn't finish him early and got into a tough grueling fight. He lost concentration and become sloppy, and remember Mike Tyson rarely had a stoppage win in the 2nd half of a fight.

I still think Evander Holyfield wins based on this remember Evander Holyfield wasn't in his prime. Either when he fought Mike Tyson, i think it would actually go the distance suprisingly with Evander taking a competitive decision.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepititas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weight class. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

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Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

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Im not trying to prove anything bro im just making a point thats it, its impossible to prove anything in mythical match ups. You can only speculate and i say Mike Tyson still got frustrated and lost concentration.

Even in his prime and you could see that against Jose Ribalta, when he couldn't finish him early and got into a tough grueling fight. He lost concentration and become sloppy, and remember Mike Tyson rarely had a stoppage win in the 2nd half of a fight.

I still think Evander Holyfield wins based on this remember Evander Holyfield wasn't in his prime. Either when he fought Mike Tyson, i think it would actually go the distance suprisingly with Evander taking a competitive decision.

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Remember, Holy wasn't a prime heavyweight when he fought Tyson? OK mon if you say so. I suppose we can both speculate about who was more past their best as a heavyweight.

As for the mythical prime for prime matchup, I speculate for Tyson, you speculate for Holyfield. But if you're telling me that I can't talk prime for prime, then you win it all. I've already granted you the edge on the "better career" criteria.

Think the lines are blurred.Could go all night on competition and take one step forward,two steps back.When it alllll comes down to it who was the better fighter?

No doubt for me it was Holyfield.Plain & simple,he bested Tyson not once...but twice.Tyson took a quality match up the 2nd time around between two of the top premiere Heavyweights fans have seen in the last couple of decades and turned it into a grotesque spectacle out of desperation and loss of self control.Some might say the realization that he was in over his head....and in with a better fighter leading to his intentional seeking of a DQ!And for all of the "Tyson was passed his best"....come on?I can see that but In that initial match people,fans,commentators were openly 'fearing' for and expressing concerns for Holyfields 'health'.Hindsight is indeed 20/20 today but living it live and at the time it was coming down,the majority of the boxing masses gave Holyfield barely a snowballs chance in hellz.The boyz at Ring Magazine predicted a 1 round clean KO for Tyson?Especially coming off a face first,one punch KO loss at the hands of Bowe one year to the nearly the exact day.....as well as his pummeling of blown up Lt.Heavyweight and past it Bobby Czyz being unable to cleanly KO him in his fight prior to the 1st Tyson fight.

With that said,Holyfield should join Tyson and GET OUT NOW!Regardless of coming off a highly disputed loss to WBA Chump Valuev.....he needs to retire.Tyson knew when to go,even if it was far too late and he went out ugly.....Holyfield continues in a stubborn borderline selfish march to recapture past glory that is no longer there.....I Need coffee.

I remember how Tyson was the overwhelming favorite. I guess people were wrong weren't they? I can think of a very recent fight where just about everyone was wrong.

In retrospect, three years in jail followed by McNeely, Mathis, Bruno and Seldon might tell us something?

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Originally Posted by CGM

I remember how Tyson was the overwhelming favorite. I guess people were wrong weren't they? I can think of a very recent fight where just about everyone was wrong.

In retrospect, three years in jail followed by McNeely, Mathis, Bruno and Seldon might tell us something?

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Yes but he did a better job on Bruno second time around than he did in his so called prime!

Prime against Prime, I believe Tyson would beat Holyfield.

As for who is the better fighter, I find that a very general question.

I think Holyfeild had better wins and was better pound for pound also if were talking about who i think would win in a match up prime still go with Evander Holyfeild the man was to tough mental and had one hell of a chin and when things get tough he does not crumble he gets stronger.