WegotRobbed..

Im not saying Lou won every round, and im not saying Berto isnt a bad dude..

But Luis Collazo showed he was world class and a welterweight to be among all the tip top names right now and he should be a two time welterweight champ now and coming off a career high win.. just getting his just desserts last night would have given his career so much momentum.. but now its in writing and if he hasnt been moved backwards he certainly hasnt moved forwards..

Lets not be harsh and underrate berto it was a great fight..

But i was so sure collazo finally took it and was going to get the nod..
and this isnt a massive robbery but i feel like lou is a winner and a champ and i feel like I! have been robbed nevermind luis collazo.. :-\

One thing is for sure Luis Collazo deserves another shot at the big time, a rematch, and the way 'bad luck' has affected him hes one of these guys that deserves just as many chances as a guy like zab judah has been given.

Well as I've said before...

To me robberies are fights that are CLEARLY won... By clearly I mean, clearly with NO room for a question.

Berto-Collazo had a couple of questionable rounds that could have gone either way. Both guys did well at different times in rounds and through the fight.

This was a very close fight and pretty even as far as rounds won.

So I personally would not see it as a robbery to either side.
As I'm sure would Collazo have won, Berto fans would have felt he was robbed.

I scored the fight 114-113 for Collazo but had no problem with Berto wining just like I wouldn't have had a problem with a draw or a Collazo win. What I do have a problem with is the 116-111 with which the point deduction would be at 117 which is absurd.

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

I'm a Berto fan and I thought he lost too.

Once again tell me the rounds he lost.

I'm a Collazo fan (well, I was cheering for him anyways), and I had it 114-113 Berto. Without the deduction, I would've had it 115-113 obviously. There were a couple of close rounds, so I can understand a 114-113 Collazo score as well. Great fight by both fighters.

Collazo did get robbed. His dumb ass robbed himself when he gave those rounds away

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

---

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

---

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

---

If you watch the fight by stream why the fukk are you crying about a robbery? First off, like you said stream quality is crap. Sometimes not even watchable. And second of all I was online (watching on HBO from my HD TV) and according to some the UK posters the stream actually crashed for like 2 rounds. So how the fukk can you have Collazo winning when technically you didn't even see the whole fight?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

---

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

---

Fair enough I shouldn't have said that, but you are not acknowledging Berto nor did you even see the whole fight, and I was watching streamed to, and half the time its freezing up or its too blurry to see whats going on, on the inside. I've seen the fight now 4 times, and I have it the same way everytime. I think having Collazo win 7 rounds in a mystery because that would require somebody giving him every close round, which seems fishy to me, I split the close rounds 1-1-1, and there were 3 of them that could have gone either way the 1st, 3rd, and 6th. Berto outlanded Collazo significantly in the sixth, but Collazo had him on the ropes for quite a while, and even though he was a landing any big shots he still had good pressure. In the third Collazo landed a lot more, but Berto landed really hard punches that could have evened it up. In the 1st round obviously Collazo landed that one punch that caught Berto off balance, but Berto landed almost twice as many punches. The rest of the fight was pretty obvious who won what rounds

Berto clearly won 2,5,7,8,11,12
and Collazo clearly won 3,4(by two points),9,10

I don't see how somebody unbiased could give Collazo all three of those rounds, especially considering Berto significantly outlanded him in two of them.

After the first 6 i had collazo up by 5 to 1. It was competitive all the way through. Collazo seemed to be winning slightly in a lot of rounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

After the first 6 i had collazo up by 5 to 1. It was competitive all the way through. Collazo seemed to be winning slightly in a lot of rounds.

---

How? Berto clearly won 2 and 5, and likely 6. I think Collazo gets the nod in 3, even at the least Berto deserves a 10-10 in six which makes it 3-2-1 which actually would be 3-1-1 if the point deduction is taken into account.

I just watched the fight in full from a download. I watched the fight at the time on a stream but they kept crashing.

My scorecard is 117-114 for Berto though I haven't taken into account the point deduction for holding as I thought that was BS ( so -1 for Berto if you want)

There were a few close rounds that I tied but of the 3 I favoured 1 a piece with 1 a definate tie.

Superb fight but Berto definately won IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

---

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

---

If you watch the fight by stream why the fukk are you crying about a robbery? First off, like you said stream quality is crap. Sometimes not even watchable. And second of all I was online (watching on HBO from my HD TV) and according to some the UK posters the stream actually crashed for like 2 rounds. So how the fukk can you have Collazo winning when technically you didn't even see the whole fight?

---

Very True,

I was watching streams and they were crashing - I think the 1st 3 rounds then maybe the last 3 with maybe 1 round in between got shown on all streams.(some streams)

I pretty much know as I was watching but when they crashed had to find new ones - the problem was rife. No Budweiser stream this week unfortunately. HBO was pulling them all down. There was one that had commentary alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Im not saying Lou won every round, and im not saying Berto isnt a bad dude..

But Luis Collazo showed he was world class and a welterweight to be among all the tip top names right now and he should be a two time welterweight champ now and coming off a career high win.. just getting his just desserts last night would have given his career so much momentum.. but now its in writing and if he hasnt been moved backwards he certainly hasnt moved forwards..

Lets not be harsh and underrate berto it was a great fight..

But i was so sure collazo finally took it and was going to get the nod..
and this isnt a massive robbery but i feel like lou is a winner and a champ and i feel like I! have been robbed nevermind luis collazo.. :-\

One thing is for sure Luis Collazo deserves another shot at the big time, a rematch, and the way 'bad luck' has affected him hes one of these guys that deserves just as many chances as a guy like zab judah has been given.

---

Tito no offense but you are a big fan of Luis Collazo so you will be a bit biased no offense. After just rewatching it again i don't think it was that close, Luis Collazo gave away too many of the middle rounds. And Andre Berto finished too strong in the later rounds.

I had it 115-112 for Andre Berto with 1 round being even, which was the 1st round. Your boy just like in the Ricky Hatton fight didn't do enough, he fought very good a bit better than i expected. But the result was fair IMO and calling this fight a robbery is disrespecting what a great/competitive fight it was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

---

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

---

If you had the fight like Harold Lederman then you do need to watch the fight again, because his scoring was pretty bad he gave Luis Collazo the 7th round. When all Luis Collazo did was hold his hands down and do nothing. That was probably Andre Berto's best round of the fight yet Harold Lederman gave Luis Collazo the round, what a joke that was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

People should watch the fight again, I think Tito must have been drunk when he saw it. Berto won more than half the rounds.

Honestly Tito name the rounds Collazo won so I can pick apart the round punch by punch and prove you wrong.

---

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

---

If you watch the fight by stream why the fukk are you crying about a robbery? First off, like you said stream quality is crap. Sometimes not even watchable. And second of all I was online (watching on HBO from my HD TV) and according to some the UK posters the stream actually crashed for like 2 rounds. So how the fukk can you have Collazo winning when technically you didn't even see the whole fight?

---

i didnt miss shit.. cause my shit didnt cut out..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Ite we'll do it like this..

Last night i had it just like lederman.. 7 rounds to five, luis collazo..

to me.. he got it all right.


and if you want a walk through i got a very very slow download on the go right now.. and i wont have to fuck with nasty ass streaming quality

I'll do you a big nice writup and rbr and explanation and post it up here

I dont give you no attitude so dont giv me this.. you musta been you drunk bs..

what you got ants in your pants cause some other people talked some shit to you or somethink?

I dont talk shit, cause i dont want to be spoken to like shit..
I dont like it, its not for me.

talk is cheap.

---

If you watch the fight by stream why the fukk are you crying about a robbery? First off, like you said stream quality is crap. Sometimes not even watchable. And second of all I was online (watching on HBO from my HD TV) and according to some the UK posters the stream actually crashed for like 2 rounds. So how the fukk can you have Collazo winning when technically you didn't even see the whole fight?

---

i didnt miss shit.. cause my shit didnt cut out..

---

Liar.

I gave berto the second but not the 5th. It was a very competitive fight the whole fight.

the 5th wasn't competitive at all Berto landed like 5 times as many punches as Collazo in that round. There were plenty of rounds Berto plainly won, but I didn't see one round that Collazo really dominated the way Berto did a few of them. It reminds me kind of, of the Hatton-Collazo fight, but not quite as close.

i scored it 114-113 Berto

Berto - 2,5,6,7,8,11,12 115 (-1 for holding)

Collazo - 1,3,4,9,10 113

it was a close fight but when you give up consecutive rounds in the middle of the fight in the way that collazo did its always going to be a struggle to get the verdict

Alrightt.. Got it done..

Now first i'll tell you this.. When i posted this up the first thing i did when i log on yesterday.. not for a minute did i expect there to be any doubt that collazo deserved the nod.. I express my opinion and say they took it from him and i couldnt believe the response.. And now we go through the whole act of rbr it, pick out the minor details assess the whole fight.. its sad.. but you fucking right i did it..lol

And y'know my score has changed when i can rewind and rewatch on a dvd player, and im not so anxious to see the fight, its not live..

So tell me truthfully fightfans when you watch a fight it goes in slowmotion and you deduce every last thing that happens? Noo you dont.. your buzzing, and when its your man out there and you wish him all the best, and its a pretty damn entertaining fight.. that shit goes fast.. a 12 round fight takes three quarters of an hour and half a fight seems to last five minutes when your into it..
Its not like watching Roy Jones - Antonio Tarver 3 for the tenth time when your bored to shit and your thinking of ending it all.. loll

But yeah.. my verdict remains the same.. Luis won.

Roundd 1 To four to me.. its all collazo..

Collazo was there, touching him with the jab.. boxing, circling a little bit, berto keeps leaving his arm out there pawing with the jab not firing it hard, and all lou does is dictates, he pats down bertos pawing jab and puts his jab over the top.. he hits him with the 1,2.. the 1,1,2.. stays slick.. he catches berto off balance, chases him around, berto holds alot.. and even when they hold its collazo touching him, body and head with a loose arm.. thats legal.. your supposed to do that and i'll go ahead and reward that.
People have argued the first round that its berto's but berto catches collazo with a counter right hand what 45 seconds left in the round?..

collazo goes back to the ropes but only gets caught with two shots and then gets back out.. then continues back with the strait shots maintaining distance and a higher output to the bell..
So for me thats a no brainer

in the second for the entire first two minutes its all collazo.. berto keeps pawing the jab and leaving it out there, not only that but keeps moving back in a strait line and getting touched with strait left hands to the body and head..and all his hard strait rights sail over collazo with his slick southpaw style..

in the second Berto lands a couple of flurries about two minutes in and then settles back into bieng stalked around the ring for another while and doesnt flurry again till the end.. he cant take a round on that.. yeah his shots are hard and fast, and he puts them together well.. but when only one or two land and sure they sound good the way he breathes when he pushes his shots out but it really means very little..

in the third collazo wins the in fight because he seemingly lands more and although is doing the in fighting thing he rarely really squares up.. so he is still moderately able to put defense in with his shots when berto on the other hand is totally squared up and takes more..

Collazo probably had one of his best rounds in the fourth by closing in the distance and keeping the distance as and when he saw fit.. he'd use the straits and put them together and if one sailed over a shoulder and they ended up close he'd work his wayfree and give berto that shoe shine treatment flury from the body to the head until hes given space..
it seemed like berto must have held for about 30 seconds strait.. no camacho holding on for dear life vs trinidad holding but still holding that arm and taking a rest and all the while lou is still chipping away at him and that is still workrate and output..

Now.. people have been saying oh the point was bullshit, this is my score without the point deduction.. no

no no no..

Do i think it was bulshit.. sure, if the shoe was on the other foot i'd be mad if collazo was taken a point.. but if the ref rules it then you score it!
if a glove touches the canvas then its a 10-8 round.. you HAVE to score it even though a fighter might not be hurt and its not really a knockdown..
Same with this.. you have to score it.

So thats a two point round and 5 point lead to collazo right there..

the rest is breif but as so..

The first half of five is a complete miss fest both staying out firiing straits that come short or are sailing over eachothers shoulders and when nothings touching anybody it isnt score worthy.. but on the upside theres less time left in the round for someone to make a mark and take it..
But then berto takes the round on pressure and work rate with his strait shots.

6. is where berto starts great and boxes conservatively and maintains just the right amount of distance with his fast strait shots, keeps the activity up but then lets collazo take away his momentum with some pretty awesome flurrying and work in close, when hes against the ropes and giving it back to berto.. I wanted to call this round even.. i think i remember lederman having it collazo.. but even with my confusion i can say.. heres my gift to you andre berto.. it was a clearly great startto a round.. take it cause i dont need to hold it against you. so call that berto

7. Collazo gives away the seventh with his lack of output.. he keeps his hands low, shows a little slickness.. its all very entertaining but at the same time berto keeps his whits about him and never over commits and risks getting caught.. just keeps his fast straits and his activity and takes it safe..

8. There isnt enough work from Collazo here, he seems to take a couple rounds off and berto uses his fast hands and good pressure, his shots are clean and some very nice body work, thats all berto..
Good work

9. in the ninth collazo uses his straiter shots and gets through more, works his defense to take away from what berto is trying to give back..all through the round hes either stalking him and landing the shots.. lands a couple nice ones on the ropes with a minute or so left.. and berto looks tired, paws too much with the jab, holds loosely, leans on collazo.. and all the while lou is just keeping the punches coming even if their not hard the workrate is there for the best part of the round.
he uses the shoe shine some more, body head, keeps up the output to take it.

10.Collazo continues to outwork berto by staying close and controlls the round, berto just looks very fatigued and takes the rounds off.. even falls with fatigue it seems .

11. in this round im seeing the same thing..the pressure and the workrate is there for collazo throughout.. berto lands clean from time to time but it only seems like these shots are coming about a minute apart each time..Berto seems to dictate the last minute but the only time he really lands and makes any impact is with only about ten seconds left.. although berto seemed to take over.. it was becuase luis seemed to let up and go very defensive.. and berto controlls but doesnt really put in combo's or isnt really catchn lou cause hes getting his slick on..
To me collazo takes it because two minutes of fair pressure and dictation and generalship beats a minute of slower paced dictatorship where collazos defensive qualities shined through still and made it hard for berto to land enough to steal it..

12. Berto does a hell of a job in the 12 and he bangs with lou, wants to hurt him and lou shows a great chin in parts but winces a bit from a body shot about45 secnd left inthe round, berto pressures lou to the end and takes it.

roundss..

1. Collazo
2.Collazo
3.Collazo
4.Collazo 10-8
5.Berto
6.Berto
7.Berto
8.Berto
9. Collazo
10.Collazo
11.Collazo
12.Berto

Call it what you will, and theres two sides to every story but thats how i saw the fight and i give you my reasons.. lets squabble like kids. lol

And hey.. i like berto if he isnt fighting lou collazo.. i usually route for him but this i feel should have gone collazo's way this time..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito BHB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

If you watch the fight by stream why the fukk are you crying about a robbery? First off, like you said stream quality is crap. Sometimes not even watchable. And second of all I was online (watching on HBO from my HD TV) and according to some the UK posters the stream actually crashed for like 2 rounds. So how the fukk can you have Collazo winning when technically you didn't even see the whole fight?

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i didnt miss shit.. cause my shit didnt cut out..

---

Liar.

---

...


Good comback.. lol

Well Tito seems bit bias scoring because there no way that Collazo won the 2 or the 11 rounds i have hard time to give those rounds to him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well Tito seems bit bias scoring because there no way that Collazo won the 2 or the 11 rounds i have hard time to give those rounds to him.

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my reasoning is there..

you might not have seenitthat way but bias fades over time ive seen thisfight three times in two days.. and im sure if people re watch it and look out for what i point out they can see my case

i have to disagree on rounds 2 and 11 dude, there defiatley the swing rounds though although for me i think berot took the 11th and also the 2nd

Well i watch the fight few times as well but there were clear won rounds for Berto which was the the rounds 2,5,7,8,11,12 the way i scored the fight was as following 1 even,2b,3c,4c,5b,6b,7b,8b,9c,10c,11b,12b so that would make 115-114 for Berto i belive but it was a close fight i just dont get the robbery part it was far to much and the fag stuff.

I think Collazo won it. I had it scored the same as the 2 judges who actually watched the fight, except with Collazo ahead instead of Berto. The third judge must have marked his score card before each round with who he wanted to win. No way anybody was ahead by 5 rounds in that fight.

It was close enough to go either way so I can't call it a robbery but, Collazo worked his tail off and deserved the win in my book.

Hats off to both fighers. Best fight I've seen in a long time.

I sat down andwatched it properly earlier and I have revised my opinion. It wasnt a clear Collazo decision. It was a very close fight. With the point deduction I think Collazo did enough to edge the decision.

But having said that, Collazo should have done everything possible to take that final round. In a close fight like that, you've got to let it all hang out.

A tough decision though, and no doubt Collazo deserves a rematch. I hope Berto has the balls to give him it immediately. No reason why they cant do it again 3-4 months later.

Andre Berto earns stripes in overcoming Luis Collazo - ESPN


I appreciated Dan Rafael's scorecard and sentiments about the fight...

I'll say it again and seldom agree with Taeth, Andre landed the stiffer more effective punches, Luis threw roughly 130 more punches than Berto, but Andre landed about 40 more..Berto connected on 266 of 682 shots (39 percent) and Collazo landed 222 of 812 shots (27 percent), according to CompuBox statistics.


You could hear and almost feel Berto's punches were as Luis was cutsie on the inside hitting Berto like Joe Cal hits the heavy bag but that wasnt enough..

My opinion on Luis hasnt changed, he is a quality character and top 10 Welter but when he needed to find that 6th gear he didnt have it, and its that small margin in a talent stacked allstar division thats going to make a difference on who is the real McCoy and who is going to be on the outside looking in, and even though he made a true fan out of me Saturday, I still see him rubbing ice off the window and watching the top guys party inside were its warm..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Andre Berto earns stripes in overcoming Luis Collazo - ESPN


I appreciated Dan Rafael's scorecard and sentiments about the fight...

I'll say it again and seldom agree with Taeth, Andre landed the stiffer more effective punches, Luis threw roughly 130 more punches than Berto, but Andre landed about 40 more..Berto connected on 266 of 682 shots (39 percent) and Collazo landed 222 of 812 shots (27 percent), according to CompuBox statistics.


You could hear and almost feel Berto's punches were as Luis was cutsie on the inside hitting Berto like Joe Cal hits the heavy bag but that wasnt enough..

My opinion on Luis hasnt changed, he is a quality character and top 10 Welter but when he needed to find that 6th gear he didnt have it, and its that small margin in a talent stacked allstar division thats going to make a difference on who is the real McCoy and who is going to be on the outside looking in, and even though he made a true fan out of me Saturday, I still see him rubbing ice off the window and watching the top guys party inside were its warm..

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The opinion of Dan Rafael doesnt make a fight result any more valid. Its just a guy with a beard and an opinion. It was an extremely close fight. There are any number of equally valid opinions out there who would disagree with Dan. And probably Taeth too for that matter. The punch count figures are not clear because both guys took rounds off and boxing is of course, a round by round thing.

A rematch would be the gents way to go, and Berto said as much in the post fight interview. It would be good to see it again 4 months later. It wasnt a brutal fight and it was crowd pleasing, no reason for it not to happen again and for Berto to try and prove he really is the better fighter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Andre Berto earns stripes in overcoming Luis Collazo - ESPN


I appreciated Dan Rafael's scorecard and sentiments about the fight...

I'll say it again and seldom agree with Taeth, Andre landed the stiffer more effective punches, Luis threw roughly 130 more punches than Berto, but Andre landed about 40 more..Berto connected on 266 of 682 shots (39 percent) and Collazo landed 222 of 812 shots (27 percent), according to CompuBox statistics.


You could hear and almost feel Berto's punches were as Luis was cutsie on the inside hitting Berto like Joe Cal hits the heavy bag but that wasnt enough..

My opinion on Luis hasnt changed, he is a quality character and top 10 Welter but when he needed to find that 6th gear he didnt have it, and its that small margin in a talent stacked allstar division thats going to make a difference on who is the real McCoy and who is going to be on the outside looking in, and even though he made a true fan out of me Saturday, I still see him rubbing ice off the window and watching the top guys party inside were its warm..

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The opinion of Dan Rafael doesnt make a fight result any more valid. Its just a guy with a beard and an opinion. It was an extremely close fight. There are any number of equally valid opinions out there who would disagree with Dan. And probably Taeth too for that matter. The punch count figures are not clear because both guys took rounds off and boxing is of course, a round by round thing.

A rematch would be the gents way to go, and Berto said as much in the post fight interview. It would be good to see it again 4 months later. It wasnt a brutal fight and it was crowd pleasing, no reason for it not to happen again and for Berto to try and prove he really is the better fighter.

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Ok but the numbers dont lie Miles... Berto landed the telling more meaningful blows..

Whats wrong with Rafael, he is probably one of thee if not thee most respected writer in the biz today??? He had it a close fight no shame in that and stated why he felt that way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Andre Berto earns stripes in overcoming Luis Collazo - ESPN


I appreciated Dan Rafael's scorecard and sentiments about the fight...

I'll say it again and seldom agree with Taeth, Andre landed the stiffer more effective punches, Luis threw roughly 130 more punches than Berto, but Andre landed about 40 more..Berto connected on 266 of 682 shots (39 percent) and Collazo landed 222 of 812 shots (27 percent), according to CompuBox statistics.


You could hear and almost feel Berto's punches were as Luis was cutsie on the inside hitting Berto like Joe Cal hits the heavy bag but that wasnt enough..

My opinion on Luis hasnt changed, he is a quality character and top 10 Welter but when he needed to find that 6th gear he didnt have it, and its that small margin in a talent stacked allstar division thats going to make a difference on who is the real McCoy and who is going to be on the outside looking in, and even though he made a true fan out of me Saturday, I still see him rubbing ice off the window and watching the top guys party inside were its warm..

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The opinion of Dan Rafael doesnt make a fight result any more valid. Its just a guy with a beard and an opinion. It was an extremely close fight. There are any number of equally valid opinions out there who would disagree with Dan. And probably Taeth too for that matter. The punch count figures are not clear because both guys took rounds off and boxing is of course, a round by round thing.

A rematch would be the gents way to go, and Berto said as much in the post fight interview. It would be good to see it again 4 months later. It wasnt a brutal fight and it was crowd pleasing, no reason for it not to happen again and for Berto to try and prove he really is the better fighter.

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Ok but the numbers dont lie Miles... Berto landed the telling more meaningful blows..

Whats wrong with Rafael, he is probably one of thee if not thee most respected writer in the biz today??? He had it a close fight no shame in that and stated why he felt that way

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Berto had some quality rounds no doubt. I wont disagree with you there.

I have nothing against Rafael as such here, he is merely a scribe with a beard, like I said. He had an opinion on a fight, as we all do...but one that many others disagree with. My personal issue with Rafael is that his views are a little too ethnocentric for my liking at times, but that isnt really an argument for here.

You dont think a rematch would be a fair outcome? I think it would be admirable if more fighters gave instant rematches to close fights.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Andre Berto earns stripes in overcoming Luis Collazo - ESPN


I appreciated Dan Rafael's scorecard and sentiments about the fight...

I'll say it again and seldom agree with Taeth, Andre landed the stiffer more effective punches, Luis threw roughly 130 more punches than Berto, but Andre landed about 40 more..Berto connected on 266 of 682 shots (39 percent) and Collazo landed 222 of 812 shots (27 percent), according to CompuBox statistics.


You could hear and almost feel Berto's punches were as Luis was cutsie on the inside hitting Berto like Joe Cal hits the heavy bag but that wasnt enough..

My opinion on Luis hasnt changed, he is a quality character and top 10 Welter but when he needed to find that 6th gear he didnt have it, and its that small margin in a talent stacked allstar division thats going to make a difference on who is the real McCoy and who is going to be on the outside looking in, and even though he made a true fan out of me Saturday, I still see him rubbing ice off the window and watching the top guys party inside were its warm..

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The opinion of Dan Rafael doesnt make a fight result any more valid. Its just a guy with a beard and an opinion. It was an extremely close fight. There are any number of equally valid opinions out there who would disagree with Dan. And probably Taeth too for that matter. The punch count figures are not clear because both guys took rounds off and boxing is of course, a round by round thing.

A rematch would be the gents way to go, and Berto said as much in the post fight interview. It would be good to see it again 4 months later. It wasnt a brutal fight and it was crowd pleasing, no reason for it not to happen again and for Berto to try and prove he really is the better fighter.

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I think Andre Berto proved he was the better fighter, he just made a mistake by fighting on the inside too much. He didn't expect to be outworked like that because no one has ever done that to him before.

When Andre Berto boxed from the outside he did look the better fighter of the two. And i don't think it was razor thin close either, i think Andre Berto clearly outworked Luis Collazo in some of the closish rounds.

And he landed the cleaner better punches where as Luis Collazo. Would throw alot of punches but quite alot of them wern't as effectie as Andre Berto's punches.

I did think it could of gone either way until the last 2 rounds. Where Andre Berto out fought Luis Collazo winning a closish 11th round, then clearly winning the 12th round in a big way.

I think Andre Berto would win a rematch more clearly by going to the body more, because he hurt Luis Collazo badly with a body shot in the last round. Not square himself up on the inside, and box more on the outside where he had his best success.

It was a highly competitive fight but after 12 exciting rounds, there was no doubt in my mind who had won. Andre Berto showed he wanted it more in the last 2 rounds, he also won his rounds more clearly, and overall had more control in the fight.

Especially where he pretty comfortably won most of the middle rounds when he boxed from the outside. I agree though there should be a rematch i would like to see Andre Berto win with no controversy this time. Because otherwise Andre Berto will never hear the end of it, just like Ricky Hatton didn't.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

Andre Berto earns stripes in overcoming Luis Collazo - ESPN


I appreciated Dan Rafael's scorecard and sentiments about the fight...

I'll say it again and seldom agree with Taeth, Andre landed the stiffer more effective punches, Luis threw roughly 130 more punches than Berto, but Andre landed about 40 more..Berto connected on 266 of 682 shots (39 percent) and Collazo landed 222 of 812 shots (27 percent), according to CompuBox statistics.


You could hear and almost feel Berto's punches were as Luis was cutsie on the inside hitting Berto like Joe Cal hits the heavy bag but that wasnt enough..

My opinion on Luis hasnt changed, he is a quality character and top 10 Welter but when he needed to find that 6th gear he didnt have it, and its that small margin in a talent stacked allstar division thats going to make a difference on who is the real McCoy and who is going to be on the outside looking in, and even though he made a true fan out of me Saturday, I still see him rubbing ice off the window and watching the top guys party inside were its warm..

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The opinion of Dan Rafael doesnt make a fight result any more valid. Its just a guy with a beard and an opinion. It was an extremely close fight. There are any number of equally valid opinions out there who would disagree with Dan. And probably Taeth too for that matter. The punch count figures are not clear because both guys took rounds off and boxing is of course, a round by round thing.

A rematch would be the gents way to go, and Berto said as much in the post fight interview. It would be good to see it again 4 months later. It wasnt a brutal fight and it was crowd pleasing, no reason for it not to happen again and for Berto to try and prove he really is the better fighter.

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I think Andre Berto proved he was the better fighter, he just made a mistake by fighting on the inside too much. He didn't expect to be outworked like that because no one has ever done that to him before.

When Andre Berto boxed from the outside he did look the better fighter of the two. And i don't think it was razor thin close either, i think Andre Berto clearly outworked Luis Collazo in some of the closish rounds.

And he landed the cleaner better punches where as Luis Collazo. Would throw alot of punches but quite alot of them wern't as effectie as Andre Berto's punches.

I did think it could of gone either way until the last 2 rounds. Where Andre Berto out fought Luis Collazo winning a closish 11th round, then clearly winning the 12th round in a big way.

I think Andre Berto will go to the body more, because he hurt Luis Collazo badly with a body shot in the last round. Not square himself up on the inside, and box more on the outside where he had his best success.

It was a highly competitive fight but after 12 exciting rounds, there was no doubt in my mind who had won. Andre Berto showed he wanted more. In the last 2 rounds he also won his rounds more clearly. And overall had more control in the fight, especially where he pretty easily won most of the middle rounds when he boxed from the outside.

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It was a close fight, and I think both fighters fought at times in ways they shouldnt have. I completely agree that Berto finished the stronger. I think, I alluded to that in an earlier posting. Collazo should have come out for the final round all guns a blazing.

It wasnt a robbery, but it was one of those fights where neither man really did enough to prove a real victory over the other man. It was like Hatton:Collazo in that neigher man really won the fight. A decision was made and you can make a case for either guy, but there is always a very good case for the rematch because the rematch might prove far more decisive. And just as enjoyable for the fans.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miles

The opinion of Dan Rafael doesnt make a fight result any more valid. Its just a guy with a beard and an opinion. It was an extremely close fight. There are any number of equally valid opinions out there who would disagree with Dan. And probably Taeth too for that matter. The punch count figures are not clear because both guys took rounds off and boxing is of course, a round by round thing.

A rematch would be the gents way to go, and Berto said as much in the post fight interview. It would be good to see it again 4 months later. It wasnt a brutal fight and it was crowd pleasing, no reason for it not to happen again and for Berto to try and prove he really is the better fighter.

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I think Andre Berto proved he was the better fighter, he just made a mistake by fighting on the inside too much. He didn't expect to be outworked like that because no one has ever done that to him before.

When Andre Berto boxed from the outside he did look the better fighter of the two. And i don't think it was razor thin close either, i think Andre Berto clearly outworked Luis Collazo in some of the closish rounds.

And he landed the cleaner better punches where as Luis Collazo. Would throw alot of punches but quite alot of them wern't as effectie as Andre Berto's punches.

I did think it could of gone either way until the last 2 rounds. Where Andre Berto out fought Luis Collazo winning a closish 11th round, then clearly winning the 12th round in a big way.

I think Andre Berto will go to the body more, because he hurt Luis Collazo badly with a body shot in the last round. Not square himself up on the inside, and box more on the outside where he had his best success.

It was a highly competitive fight but after 12 exciting rounds, there was no doubt in my mind who had won. Andre Berto showed he wanted more. In the last 2 rounds he also won his rounds more clearly. And overall had more control in the fight, especially where he pretty easily won most of the middle rounds when he boxed from the outside.

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It was a close fight, and I think both fighters fought at times in ways they shouldnt have. I completely agree that Berto finished the stronger. I think, I alluded to that in an earlier posting. Collazo should have come out for the final round all guns a blazing.

It wasnt a robbery, but it was one of those fights where neither man really did enough to prove a real victory over the other man. It was like Hatton:Collazo in that neigher man really won the fight. A decision was made and you can make a case for either guy, but there is always a very good case for the rematch because the rematch might prove far more decisive. And just as enjoyable for the fans.

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Also in a way it makes Ricky Hatton look better because everyone gave Ricky Hatton. Alot of stick for struggling against Luis Collazo, but i think Luis Collazo has proved he is a quality fighter who can give any Welterweight a tough nights work.

It was a great fight, i don't think either guy got robbed berto could have done more and so could have collazo. Everyone agrees more than likely that the 116 score was silly but even luis himself after the fight never argued that he won he himself said it should have been 114-113 all around hard to argue against the guy who was in the fight himself. No one in his corner well hell either corner seemed to think thier guy won either. I don't think either was robbed either guy could have won and one did nuff said. Berto fought the complete wrong fight much of that due to collazo so he didn't shine like he usually does at points it was just good back and forth action. Even a draw wouldn't have surprised me. It did bug me how that one big punch in the first was looked at like a knockdown, by the commentators and such we've seen berto hurt in the past and i think he was stung and shocked at most.