Margarito - No longer indestructable

First off, huge respect for Shane Mosley today, he really turned back the clock and did what I didn't think was possible, he took Margarito out plain and simple.

So what happens now for Tony, hand wrap controversy aside.

Tony's greatest strength was his belief in his chin, his strength and his work rate - that no matter how hard and how often you hit him, he could walk through you and take you out. Look at how often Cotto hit him with huge shots and they just had no effect.

Maybe, Shane benefited tonight from Cotto's work - you just can't keep taking shots like Tony takes and expect to stay healthy. Look at Mayorga - early in his career you couldn't knock him out with a sledgehammer, but over time his chin eroded to the point where he's getting buzzed and KO'd regularly.

So tonight Tony's faith in his chin was unswerving, but he paid a big price - you could almost see the disbelief in his face when he was on the canvas and his legs wouldn't repsond. "WTF? This has never happened before!";D

If he is to continue in the sport at the top level he must protect his chin. But Tony may be like another great Mexican fighter, Pipino Cuevas - once the belief in the chin is gone they just aren't the same:-\

Tony took some hard shots from Cotto and he just smile and walked right through them which was unbelievable to me. But i said this before that eventually you wont be able to take those shots forever.

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Tony took some hard shots from Cotto and he just smile and walked right through them which was unbelievable to me. But i said this before that eventually you wont be able to take those shots forever.

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Exactly my point.

I think that in order to keep fighting against the elite Tony needs to reorganize his style and not be so gung ho about things, much the same way that Tszyu did after Vince Phillips, although he had the benefit of being, IMO, a a far more skilled boxer than Tony thanks to his amateur pedigree.

Tony, when you look at it, is a pretty one dimensional fighter. I think he has a nice jab, but Mosley really exposed his lack of subtlety and speed tonight. He controlled the distance so well, kept him just out of range or too close ALL NIGHT. Very similar to what Hopkins did to Kelly Pavlik.

Can Tony change? Don't know, but after tonight I think we all agree he needs to...

I thought before the fight that Margie had impregnable defense when it came to the body. He had that perfect stance with his had down, and long forearms. Shane was able to find spots, and weaken him early.

I can't get enough of this fight.....I am re-watching it as I type!!

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Originally Posted by Greig

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Tony took some hard shots from Cotto and he just smile and walked right through them which was unbelievable to me. But i said this before that eventually you wont be able to take those shots forever.

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Exactly my point.

I think that in order to keep fighting against the elite Tony needs to reorganize his style and not be so gung ho about things, much the same way that Tszyu did after Vince Phillips, although he had the benefit of being, IMO, a a far more skilled boxer than Tony thanks to his amateur pedigree.

Tony, when you look at it, is a pretty one dimensional fighter. I think he has a nice jab, but Mosley really exposed his lack of subtlety and speed tonight. He controlled the distance so well, kept him just out of range or too close ALL NIGHT. Very similar to what Hopkins did to Kelly Pavlik.

Can Tony change? Don't know, but after tonight I think we all agree he needs to...

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Its pretty clear that tony is very one dimensional. But as far as his style goes i think hes fukked cause hes fought with the same style his whole career and would be very difficult for him to change it up all of a sudden. Now it should be even easier for Cotto to beat him since he wont have that plaster in his gloves and is very easy to study now that Mosley exposed him.

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Originally Posted by DAWGSWIN

I thought before the fight that Margie had impregnable defense when it came to the body. He had that perfect stance with his had down, and long forearms. Shane was able to find spots, and weaken him early.

I can't get enough of this fight.....I am re-watching it as I type!!

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Me too mate. Even in the seventh, I said to my friend "It looks it's SHANE who's bustin TONY up"

He said "don't worry mate, that chin will hold up all 12."
;D;D

About 5 minutes later, we were picking our jaws up off the floor...

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

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Originally Posted by Greig

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

Tony took some hard shots from Cotto and he just smile and walked right through them which was unbelievable to me. But i said this before that eventually you wont be able to take those shots forever.

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Exactly my point.

I think that in order to keep fighting against the elite Tony needs to reorganize his style and not be so gung ho about things, much the same way that Tszyu did after Vince Phillips, although he had the benefit of being, IMO, a a far more skilled boxer than Tony thanks to his amateur pedigree.

Tony, when you look at it, is a pretty one dimensional fighter. I think he has a nice jab, but Mosley really exposed his lack of subtlety and speed tonight. He controlled the distance so well, kept him just out of range or too close ALL NIGHT. Very similar to what Hopkins did to Kelly Pavlik.

Can Tony change? Don't know, but after tonight I think we all agree he needs to...

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Its pretty clear that tony is very one dimensional. But as far as his style goes i think hes fukked cause hes fought with the same style his whole career and would be very difficult for him to change it up all of a sudden. Now it should be even easier for Cotto to beat him since he wont have that plaster in his gloves and is very easy to study now that Mosley exposed him.

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Maybe - but does Cotto have Mosley's balls and heart?

Balls yes after all he did face Margarito who was one of the most avoided fighters at 147.

Heart i wouldnt say hes all heart but Cotto does have heart but sometimes heart doesnt win fights.

But as of now this Mosley is almost unstoppable at 147.

Cotto is courageous no doubt.

But a beating like the one he took against Tony will do things to your mind. Just like the beating Tony took tonight will play on his mind.


Interesting year ahead at 147.

I think Cotto has Balls enough, but is not as durable as Mosely. He needs to take a note from Mosely and clinch more against Margarito and he'll get the victory.

Mosley didn't just clinch, he uses his strength to move Margarito, and that wore Margarito down. There were a few times Cotto used that strength in the clinch against Margarito, but he would then precede to back off. Miguel Cotto fought a bad fight, and I think after watching that fight if he altered his style, he stopped Margarito faster than Mosley because he hits harder, he is more accurate, and lands more meaningful punches. But tonight is a perfect example of how important the clinch is.

If Mosley wasn't able to clinch he would have lost, he doesn't have the slick defensive skills needed to stop Margarito's offensive arsenal, anytime Margarito tried to get going Mosley held him.

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Originally Posted by Greig

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Originally Posted by kingfrnk

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Originally Posted by Greig

Exactly my point.

I think that in order to keep fighting against the elite Tony needs to reorganize his style and not be so gung ho about things, much the same way that Tszyu did after Vince Phillips, although he had the benefit of being, IMO, a a far more skilled boxer than Tony thanks to his amateur pedigree.

Tony, when you look at it, is a pretty one dimensional fighter. I think he has a nice jab, but Mosley really exposed his lack of subtlety and speed tonight. He controlled the distance so well, kept him just out of range or too close ALL NIGHT. Very similar to what Hopkins did to Kelly Pavlik.

Can Tony change? Don't know, but after tonight I think we all agree he needs to...

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Its pretty clear that tony is very one dimensional. But as far as his style goes i think hes fukked cause hes fought with the same style his whole career and would be very difficult for him to change it up all of a sudden. Now it should be even easier for Cotto to beat him since he wont have that plaster in his gloves and is very easy to study now that Mosley exposed him.

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Maybe - but does Cotto have Mosley's balls and heart?

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Mosley never needed to dig deep, margarito hardly landed anything because the clinch is so effective.

Well i never remember Shane giving up in a fight like Cotto did but i got to say not every is blessed with a chin and i disagree Teath i think Mosley speed puts alot more on his punches then Cotto just look at the effect on Margrito and you can see who can throw the harder punch dude.

I felt that mosley hurt margarito in the first round and margarito hardly threw a body shot for at least 6 rounds. He just couldn't get many punches off. Paul Williams did the same thing to him, but couldn't hurt him the way mosley hurt him.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well i never remember Shane giving up in a fight like Cotto did but i got to say not every is blessed with a chin and i disagree Teath i think Mosley speed puts alot more on his punches then Cotto just look at the effect on Margrito and you can see who can throw the harder punch dude.

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What better way to compare power than to see the guys fighting eachother watch Cotto-Mosley, Cotto hits harder, he hit MArgarito harder as well, he was snapping his head back more. Shane isn't that hard of a puncher above lightweight, certainly isn't on Cotto's level in power punching, COtto is nearly at 140 the same puncher Mosley was at 135.

Yea but teah i dont remeber Margrito falling all over the place when Cotto hit him i mean when Mosley hit him it stop Margarito right in his tracks.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Mosley didn't just clinch, he uses his strength to move Margarito, and that wore Margarito down. There were a few times Cotto used that strength in the clinch against Margarito, but he would then precede to back off. Miguel Cotto fought a bad fight, and I think after watching that fight if he altered his style, he stopped Margarito faster than Mosley because he hits harder, he is more accurate, and lands more meaningful punches. But tonight is a perfect example of how important the clinch is.

If Mosley wasn't able to clinch he would have lost, he doesn't have the slick defensive skills needed to stop Margarito's offensive arsenal, anytime Margarito tried to get going Mosley held him.

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You are so full of crap. Mosley was slipping Tony's shots all night. His defense was great and he was countering his ass off. He clinched effectively, but it wasn't excessive and even on the inside, without clinching, Mosley was eating him up. Did you notice those nice little left uppercuts and the digging bodywork? The short, chopping rights? Yeah, you did. You just don't want to give Mosley credit. You never have and you never will. Sit down, shut up. You called this one wrong. Don't sit there and try to make excuses. You said there is no way Shane is winning this fight. Loud and clear and absolute. You were dead ass wrong. :pis2:

Shane was faster, boxed better, jabbed better, hit harder, and dominated him in every regard. I wasn't sure Shane had this performance left in him, but I gave him a chance and spelled out reasons why Shane would make this a close fight and possibly win a decision. I can't believe you can say that Cotto hits harder and more accurately than Mosley and that Cotto fought a bad fight against Tony. Cotto fought a great fight against Tony, but Cotto doesn't have Mosley's chin, speed, or power. Cotto has forward leaning posture than makes him open to uppercuts, and Cotto let Tony punish him even when Tony wasn't landing cleanly. Margarito couldn't get off against Shane because the speed difference was too great and Shane was moving and making him miss.

Cotto won a razor thin victory over Mosley by using his jab to outbox Shane for the last few rounds, and the jab is how you beat Mosley. Just like Winky, just like Forrest.


This fight wasn't about the clinch. It was about Shane pulling out a jab he hasn't used in years and it was about Shane moving, hitting Tony hard from angles, beating him to the punch pretty much everytime. Shane won every round, save maybe one. Yes, Shane used his strength in clinches. That's part of the game, but don't try to make this sound like it was Hatton/KT or John Ruiz against anybody. Mosley was superior with both physical and punching power. He backed up Tony, in the clinch AND out of the clinch, which is something nobody else has done. Tony was outboxed, outpunched, outmuscled, and given a boxing lesson worse than the one Hopkins gave Pavlik.

Cotto didn't fight a bad fight. Tony was a stylistic nightmare for Cotto. If I recall, you and I were some of the few of the people preaching that idea before the fight. Cotto doesn't have Mosley's physical strength or power, but he has the kind of jab that is kryptonite to Mosley. End of story. Mosley gave Tony a boxing lesson.

I think Cotto's speed and accuracy is on par with Mosely, but he's definitely not as powerful as Mosely. He's not far behind in the power dept. though. Cotto was fighting a near perfect fight against Margarito and got caught. The "clinch" would have served Cotto very well and had he used it like Mosely did he might have made it the full 12. Not sure if he would have won, because he was already hurt early but I think he would have went the distance. Last night Mosely did everything Cotto did against Margarito only better and added the perfect dosage of clinching to make life easier on him. Masterful performance by a master fighter.

Where are all the “Magarito would destroy Mayweather” people now ? Come out !! Come out !! Wherever you are !! If was Magarito I would retire. He must have made some money. The fact is he will never beat a top-class fighter now that he chin and his cheating hand wraps has been exposed. He doesn’t have the boxing skills to beat any of the top fights. Cotto will beat him easily in a rematch. Williams will outclass him. Mosley will beat him even quicker and Mayweather must be sitting at home laughing his arse off.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Mosley didn't just clinch, he uses his strength to move Margarito, and that wore Margarito down. There were a few times Cotto used that strength in the clinch against Margarito, but he would then precede to back off. Miguel Cotto fought a bad fight, and I think after watching that fight if he altered his style, he stopped Margarito faster than Mosley because he hits harder, he is more accurate, and lands more meaningful punches. But tonight is a perfect example of how important the clinch is.

If Mosley wasn't able to clinch he would have lost, he doesn't have the slick defensive skills needed to stop Margarito's offensive arsenal, anytime Margarito tried to get going Mosley held him.

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You are so full of crap. Mosley was slipping Tony's shots all night. His defense was great and he was countering his ass off. He clinched effectively, but it wasn't excessive and even on the inside, without clinching, Mosley was eating him up. Did you notice those nice little left uppercuts and the digging bodywork? The short, chopping rights? Yeah, you did. You just don't want to give Mosley credit. You never have and you never will. Sit down, shut up. You called this one wrong. Don't sit there and try to make excuses. You said there is no way Shane is winning this fight. Loud and clear and absolute. You were dead ass wrong. :pis2:

Shane was faster, boxed better, jabbed better, hit harder, and dominated him in every regard. I wasn't sure Shane had this performance left in him, but I gave him a chance and spelled out reasons why Shane would make this a close fight and possibly win a decision. I can't believe you can say that Cotto hits harder and more accurately than Mosley and that Cotto fought a bad fight against Tony. Cotto fought a great fight against Tony, but Cotto doesn't have Mosley's chin, speed, or power. Cotto has forward leaning posture than makes him open to uppercuts, and Cotto let Tony punish him even when Tony wasn't landing cleanly. Margarito couldn't get off against Shane because the speed difference was too great and Shane was moving and making him miss.

Cotto won a razor thin victory over Mosley by using his jab to outbox Shane for the last few rounds, and the jab is how you beat Mosley. Just like Winky, just like Forrest.


This fight wasn't about the clinch. It was about Shane pulling out a jab he hasn't used in years and it was about Shane moving, hitting Tony hard from angles, beating him to the punch pretty much everytime. Shane won every round, save maybe one. Yes, Shane used his strength in clinches. That's part of the game, but don't try to make this sound like it was Hatton/KT or John Ruiz against anybody. Mosley was superior with both physical and punching power. He backed up Tony, in the clinch AND out of the clinch, which is something nobody else has done. Tony was outboxed, outpunched, outmuscled, and given a boxing lesson worse than the one Hopkins gave Pavlik.

Cotto didn't fight a bad fight. Tony was a stylistic nightmare for Cotto. If I recall, you and I were some of the few of the people preaching that idea before the fight. Cotto doesn't have Mosley's physical strength or power, but he has the kind of jab that is kryptonite to Mosley. End of story. Mosley gave Tony a boxing lesson.

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I agrre Mosely boxed great, but also agree with Taeth that the clinch was a factor, may not have been THE deciding factor but helped Shane a lot. He'd land a combination, but rather than taking punishment like Cotto did he held at SOME occasions while using footwork and the jab on other occasions.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Mosley didn't just clinch, he uses his strength to move Margarito, and that wore Margarito down. There were a few times Cotto used that strength in the clinch against Margarito, but he would then precede to back off. Miguel Cotto fought a bad fight, and I think after watching that fight if he altered his style, he stopped Margarito faster than Mosley because he hits harder, he is more accurate, and lands more meaningful punches. But tonight is a perfect example of how important the clinch is.

If Mosley wasn't able to clinch he would have lost, he doesn't have the slick defensive skills needed to stop Margarito's offensive arsenal, anytime Margarito tried to get going Mosley held him.

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You are so full of crap. Mosley was slipping Tony's shots all night. His defense was great and he was countering his ass off. He clinched effectively, but it wasn't excessive and even on the inside, without clinching, Mosley was eating him up. Did you notice those nice little left uppercuts and the digging bodywork? The short, chopping rights? Yeah, you did. You just don't want to give Mosley credit. You never have and you never will. Sit down, shut up. You called this one wrong. Don't sit there and try to make excuses. You said there is no way Shane is winning this fight. Loud and clear and absolute. You were dead ass wrong. :pis2:

Shane was faster, boxed better, jabbed better, hit harder, and dominated him in every regard. I wasn't sure Shane had this performance left in him, but I gave him a chance and spelled out reasons why Shane would make this a close fight and possibly win a decision. I can't believe you can say that Cotto hits harder and more accurately than Mosley and that Cotto fought a bad fight against Tony. Cotto fought a great fight against Tony, but Cotto doesn't have Mosley's chin, speed, or power. Cotto has forward leaning posture than makes him open to uppercuts, and Cotto let Tony punish him even when Tony wasn't landing cleanly. Margarito couldn't get off against Shane because the speed difference was too great and Shane was moving and making him miss.

Cotto won a razor thin victory over Mosley by using his jab to outbox Shane for the last few rounds, and the jab is how you beat Mosley. Just like Winky, just like Forrest.


This fight wasn't about the clinch. It was about Shane pulling out a jab he hasn't used in years and it was about Shane moving, hitting Tony hard from angles, beating him to the punch pretty much everytime. Shane won every round, save maybe one. Yes, Shane used his strength in clinches. That's part of the game, but don't try to make this sound like it was Hatton/KT or John Ruiz against anybody. Mosley was superior with both physical and punching power. He backed up Tony, in the clinch AND out of the clinch, which is something nobody else has done. Tony was outboxed, outpunched, outmuscled, and given a boxing lesson worse than the one Hopkins gave Pavlik.

Cotto didn't fight a bad fight. Tony was a stylistic nightmare for Cotto. If I recall, you and I were some of the few of the people preaching that idea before the fight. Cotto doesn't have Mosley's physical strength or power, but he has the kind of jab that is kryptonite to Mosley. End of story. Mosley gave Tony a boxing lesson.

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I agrre Mosely boxed great, but also agree with Taeth that the clinch was a factor, may not have been THE deciding factor but helped Shane a lot. He'd land a combination, but rather than taking punishment like Cotto did he held at SOME occasions while using footwork and the jab on other occasions.

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Yes, it was a factor, but to say that without the clinch Mosley would have lost is insane. He's was making it sound like it was a Ruiz fight or Hatton at his worst. I would say there was less clinching than the average Hopkins fight, but I think that it's no accident that Hopkins trainer had Shane using clinches effectively from time to time as part of the gameplan. Also, he basically said that Mosley's only defense was to clinch, which is completely wrong. Mosley was making miss him all the time and was picking of punches left and right with his gloves. The clinches were one part of a complete, excellent game plan.

Taeth had one good point - the clinch is important. It is. Agreed.

But the story of the fight was not the clinch, and in fact, Tony did his share of clinching, too. Everything else in his post was wrong. Taeth just hates Mosley and he's nitpicking a brilliant performance. So deserves to have an animated monkey piss on him. I think we can all agree on that one :0

I don't get that. Margarito beat Cotto and just because of that win he was considered "Indestructable"? If someone deserves to be called "Indestructable" that would be Floyd Mayweather Jr. Like him or not, HE IS indestructable so far. One or two questionable desicions but Nobody ever has damaged his face, hurt him, exposed him, etc.

I gotta admit I was well wrong on Mosely, he did very well!!

This, in my eyes puts a better light on where Mayorga is at right now as well.

Mayorga did a hell of a lot better against Shane than Margarito and it would be nice spectacle (if Mayrga gets past Angulo) if Ricardo and Antonio fight, although I dont see Antonio fighting anyone with a big overhand right for while now;D

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Originally Posted by Chino

I don't get that. Margarito beat Cotto and just because of that win he was considered "Indestructable"? If someone deserves to be called "Indestructable" that would be Floyd Mayweather Jr. Like him or not, HE IS indestructable so far. One or two questionable desicions but Nobody ever has damaged his face, hurt him, exposed him, etc.

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I dont think u get it. Margarito was called indestructable because he takes a hell of a shot and goes no where thats "indestructable". Floyd is more like untouchable or unbeatable. ;)

Floyd relies on people being dumb, when he leans back.

If Hatton didnt fight as stupid as he did he would have had a brilliant shot, he is quick and used to put punches together well, he tried just being the stronger man, if hed have used his punches and not tried just barging around hed have at least got to the final bell.

Oscar showed it a little, by keeping pumping out the punches while Floyd leans back, forcing Floyd to either back up or open up, anyone who is hesitant will do poorly against Floyd, they need to press and keep working, dont give him any space or time.

If Calzaghe was in Floyds weight, could you imagine Floyd trying to lean back on the ropes? Hed be peppered to fuck!!

Im not sure Shane can bring the output needed to take Floyd, Cotto is too methodical, Hatton could still do alot better but he hasnt shown it yet, pacquiao would give Floyd a headache with his southpaw style and work ethic.

No man is indestructible.The thing about having a hard chin is always having to show it and prove it.Sort of a last line of defense.Even a tiger can kill an elephant....a death of many,many blows :fight:.Besides.....I think Mosley's killer bodysots set the table early on,Tony felt them!!Great job Champion.My boots are not tasting so good right now:-X;D

No fighter is indestructable. We just built them up and when they fall, they fall harder. At the end of the day, a human being can only take so much. It happened to Roy Jones, Miguel Cotto, De La Hoya. It will happen to Hopkins eventually even Mayweather if he continues. We are all made out of the same stuff, some more durable than others, but none invincible.

What i cant work out is how Tony went down TWICE to Shane's shots. Yet took Paul Williams, Kermit Cintron and Miguel Cotto's shots without flinching. Maybe I'm just underestimating SM's power. The speed must have had something to do with it definietly.

What round did he win in and how good was the fight out of 10 rating??

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Originally Posted by yvonne

What round did he win in and how good was the fight out of 10 rating??

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9th round KO. 10/10 fight for me. Shane Mosely rolling back the years was a thing of beauty to watch.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

What i cant work out is how Tony went down TWICE to Shane's shots. Yet took Paul Williams, Kermit Cintron and Miguel Cotto's shots without flinching. Maybe I'm just underestimating SM's power. The speed must have had something to do with it definietly.

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The speed had everything to do with it. Speed kills.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by yvonne

What round did he win in and how good was the fight out of 10 rating??

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9th round KO. 10/10 fight for me. Shane Mosely rolling back the years was a thing of beauty to watch.

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I was going to put a bet on Mosely to win as well but a forgot to.I know he was the under-dog going into the fight.Do you know what the odds where at the bookmakers?

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Originally Posted by yvonne

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by yvonne

What round did he win in and how good was the fight out of 10 rating??

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9th round KO. 10/10 fight for me. Shane Mosely rolling back the years was a thing of beauty to watch.

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I was going to put a bet on Mosely to win as well but a forgot to.I know he was the under-dog going into the fight.Do you know what the odds where at the bookmakers?

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4/1 mate.