Margaritos Camp Offers An Explanation

Margarito’s Camp Speaks on Hand Wraps Controversy

SportingNews.com - The Sporting Blog

While most of the news surrounding the Shane Mosley/Antonio Margarito fight this past Saturday surrounds the dominant nature of Mosley’s upset victory, the boxing world remains in a state of silent shock and anticipation over another pressing issue – the illegal substances that were discovered in Margarito’s hand wraps prior to the fight, substances that were described by both Mosley’s chief second and a representative of the California State Athletic Commission as “plaster-like.”

The substances were removed and taken by the CSAC. If, after examination, the board deems that Margarito was trying to load his gloves to add more pop to his punches, he will be punished and his reputation will take a severe hit. Meanwhile, boxing will have another black-eye controversy on its hands. Margarito’s brutal victory over Miguel Cotto last July was one of the highlights of boxing’s stellar 2008 campaign, a fight that I deemed right here at TSB to be the Fight of the Year. Should it come out that Margarito was plastering his wraps for Mosley, many will suspect that he did so against Cotto as well and that it played a role in his victory, tarnishing what right now remains Margarito’s finest moment in the ring.

The first comments on the controversy emerged today from Margarito’s camp, as Francisco Espinoza, Margarito’s co-manager, addressed the issue to the Mexican newspaper, Primera Hora. As reported over at Boxingscene.com, Espinoza denied that there had been any wrongdoing by Margarito or his trainer, Javier Capetillo, and offered the explanation that the “plaster-like” substances in question were actually gauzes that had been prepared two weeks before the fight with a wet cloth that caused the gauze to become humid and then hard.

To put it mildly, this is an explanation that leaves a lot to be desired. If you are familiar at all with “gauze,” then you are probably aware that when it gets wet, it doesn’t tend to harden into anything that could be described as “plaster-like,” not unless it has been doctored in some way.

I am a big fan of Tony Margarito and so I am not prepared to convict him without a trial. The substances removed from his gloves, whatever they were, are now in the custody of the CSAC and that body will rule on the issue in due time. Until then, I say he’s innocent until proven dirty.

That said, this is a very serious issue. In boxing’s most notorious case of glove-doctoring, Luis Resto actually did jail time for assault after pummeling Billy Collins with loaded gloves in a fight in 1983. Given the gravity of the accusation, I have been hoping since Saturday night that some plausible explanation for the condition of Margarito’s gloves would be offered quickly and succinctly by either the fighter or his camp. The crap that his co-manager came out with today does not meet those expectations, not by a longshot.

This is not a good sign for Margarito or the sport.

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

Margarito’s Camp Speaks on Hand Wraps Controversy

SportingNews.com - The Sporting Blog

While most of the news surrounding the Shane Mosley/Antonio Margarito fight this past Saturday surrounds the dominant nature of Mosley’s upset victory, the boxing world remains in a state of silent shock and anticipation over another pressing issue – the illegal substances that were discovered in Margarito’s hand wraps prior to the fight, substances that were described by both Mosley’s chief second and a representative of the California State Athletic Commission as “plaster-like.”

The substances were removed and taken by the CSAC. If, after examination, the board deems that Margarito was trying to load his gloves to add more pop to his punches, he will be punished and his reputation will take a severe hit. Meanwhile, boxing will have another black-eye controversy on its hands. Margarito’s brutal victory over Miguel Cotto last July was one of the highlights of boxing’s stellar 2008 campaign, a fight that I deemed right here at TSB to be the Fight of the Year. Should it come out that Margarito was plastering his wraps for Mosley, many will suspect that he did so against Cotto as well and that it played a role in his victory, tarnishing what right now remains Margarito’s finest moment in the ring.

The first comments on the controversy emerged today from Margarito’s camp, as Francisco Espinoza, Margarito’s co-manager, addressed the issue to the Mexican newspaper, Primera Hora. As reported over at Boxingscene.com, Espinoza denied that there had been any wrongdoing by Margarito or his trainer, Javier Capetillo, and offered the explanation that the “plaster-like” substances in question were actually gauzes that had been prepared two weeks before the fight with a wet cloth that caused the gauze to become humid and then hard.

To put it mildly, this is an explanation that leaves a lot to be desired. If you are familiar at all with “gauze,” then you are probably aware that when it gets wet, it doesn’t tend to harden into anything that could be described as “plaster-like,” not unless it has been doctored in some way.

I am a big fan of Tony Margarito and so I am not prepared to convict him without a trial. The substances removed from his gloves, whatever they were, are now in the custody of the CSAC and that body will rule on the issue in due time. Until then, I say he’s innocent until proven dirty.

That said, this is a very serious issue. In boxing’s most notorious case of glove-doctoring, Luis Resto actually did jail time for assault after pummeling Billy Collins with loaded gloves in a fight in 1983. Given the gravity of the accusation, I have been hoping since Saturday night that some plausible explanation for the condition of Margarito’s gloves would be offered quickly and succinctly by either the fighter or his camp. The crap that his co-manager came out with today does not meet those expectations, not by a longshot.

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I know that there is room for human error in anything, but it's not like they ONLY checked his gloves for THIS fight.

Are we assuming that every time before this fight the inspection of gloves was ill-executed? As far as i know, wraps and gloves are checked in the dressing room by whichever commision, and they watch the trainer wrap the boxers hands.

This brings up a few aspects:

A.) That Tony ONLY did this for this fight, considering the same inspection/monitoring of wrapping his hands has been provided in all of his fights.

B.) That Tony has consistently done this and that the people in charge of monitoring the wrapping of boxers gloves do not do a great job, and have missed it in his previous fights.

If this same process is practiced in every fight, then I do not see how you can count Tony at fault for his previous fights.

To be honest i'm not defending him, i'm just trying to look at this situation as neutral as possible.

There are issues like this in many sports. Steroids in baseball.. Loaded bats in baseball.. Goalie's having pads that exceed the maximum size in hockey..

Granted these are not as dangerous as loaded gloves, they are still the rules of their respective leagues, and it is up to the league to catch the cheaters.

Not good at all. I would imagine the punishment will be pretty severe using loaded gloves these days.

That is a seriously bad explanation. I save hand wraps from my fighters pro fights for them,they all feel pretty close to the same,no matter who did them. They would way better off saying it was just old gauze,and thats why there was flakes coming off the wraps.
But to say "We were doctoring the guaze,and thats why the wraps looked doctored" is not the right PR path to take.
I feel bad for Margarito at this point,its up to his corner to take care of his wraps,heck,most of the time the boxer isnt even looking when he's being wrapped,he just assumes everything is cool. And this might end up costing him his career

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

Margarito’s Camp Speaks on Hand Wraps Controversy

SportingNews.com - The Sporting Blog

While most of the news surrounding the Shane Mosley/Antonio Margarito fight this past Saturday surrounds the dominant nature of Mosley’s upset victory, the boxing world remains in a state of silent shock and anticipation over another pressing issue – the illegal substances that were discovered in Margarito’s hand wraps prior to the fight, substances that were described by both Mosley’s chief second and a representative of the California State Athletic Commission as “plaster-like.”

The substances were removed and taken by the CSAC. If, after examination, the board deems that Margarito was trying to load his gloves to add more pop to his punches, he will be punished and his reputation will take a severe hit. Meanwhile, boxing will have another black-eye controversy on its hands. Margarito’s brutal victory over Miguel Cotto last July was one of the highlights of boxing’s stellar 2008 campaign, a fight that I deemed right here at TSB to be the Fight of the Year. Should it come out that Margarito was plastering his wraps for Mosley, many will suspect that he did so against Cotto as well and that it played a role in his victory, tarnishing what right now remains Margarito’s finest moment in the ring.

The first comments on the controversy emerged today from Margarito’s camp, as Francisco Espinoza, Margarito’s co-manager, addressed the issue to the Mexican newspaper, Primera Hora. As reported over at Boxingscene.com, Espinoza denied that there had been any wrongdoing by Margarito or his trainer, Javier Capetillo, and offered the explanation that the “plaster-like” substances in question were actually gauzes that had been prepared two weeks before the fight with a wet cloth that caused the gauze to become humid and then hard.

To put it mildly, this is an explanation that leaves a lot to be desired. If you are familiar at all with “gauze,” then you are probably aware that when it gets wet, it doesn’t tend to harden into anything that could be described as “plaster-like,” not unless it has been doctored in some way.

I am a big fan of Tony Margarito and so I am not prepared to convict him without a trial. The substances removed from his gloves, whatever they were, are now in the custody of the CSAC and that body will rule on the issue in due time. Until then, I say he’s innocent until proven dirty.

That said, this is a very serious issue. In boxing’s most notorious case of glove-doctoring, Luis Resto actually did jail time for assault after pummeling Billy Collins with loaded gloves in a fight in 1983. Given the gravity of the accusation, I have been hoping since Saturday night that some plausible explanation for the condition of Margarito’s gloves would be offered quickly and succinctly by either the fighter or his camp. The crap that his co-manager came out with today does not meet those expectations, not by a longshot.

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I know that there is room for human error in anything, but it's not like they ONLY checked his gloves for THIS fight.

Are we assuming that every time before this fight the inspection of gloves was ill-executed? As far as i know, wraps and gloves are checked in the dressing room by whichever commision, and they watch the trainer wrap the boxers hands.

This brings up a few aspects:

A.) That Tony ONLY did this for this fight, considering the same inspection/monitoring of wrapping his hands has been provided in all of his fights.

B.) That Tony has consistently done this and that the people in charge of monitoring the wrapping of boxers gloves do not do a great job, and have missed it in his previous fights.

If this same process is practiced in every fight, then I do not see how you can count Tony at fault for his previous fights.

To be honest i'm not defending him, i'm just trying to look at this situation as neutral as possible.

There are issues like this in many sports. Steroids in baseball.. Loaded bats in baseball.. Goalie's having pads that exceed the maximum size in hockey..

Granted these are not as dangerous as loaded gloves, they are still the rules of their respective leagues, and it is up to the league to catch the cheaters.

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Usually when somebody gets tagged for something like this,there's been rumours floating around for quite awhile,and nobody has had the guts to bring it up before.
Its a weird sport that way,while there may be alot of boxers,there are only so many gyms trainers,managers,and promoters out there. If your going to call foul on someone,youd better be damned sure when you do it,because most of us know each other,and if your wrong.........

I think this hole is a very deep one. Not one where one can still dig out.

Margarito Leaves Mess in His Trail - Boxing FanHouse

Jail time looming? This is a bottom line boxing is surely not ready, nor comfortable dealing with at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Usually when somebody gets tagged for something like this,there's been rumours floating around for quite awhile,and nobody has had the guts to bring it up before.
Its a weird sport that way,while there may be alot of boxers,there are only so many gyms trainers,managers,and promoters out there. If your going to call foul on someone,youd better be damned sure when you do it,because most of us know each other,and if your wrong.........

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eh, i don't know about that.. As i said, in other sports, lets say baseball, if someone is cranking out homeruns at will, no one is apprehensive about checking the bat. i've seen it happen a number of times.. I've seen goalies get their equipment checked between periods..

i previously stated that these types of "cheating" aren't as serious as loaded gloves considering you're putting a fighters LIFE at risk.. Are you trying to say that if a commision is in charge of a fight, in charge of rules to be executed, meaning they are RESPONSIBLE for mishaps, that they would be apprehensive to say "can you rewrap those gloves?" or closely monitor the wrapping and easily questioning the trainer/fighter where they see any foul-play? It's something done in the process of wrapping, not after the fact.

I don't see any harm in that, nor is it an "accusation" of someone cheating.. It's just part of the game to make sure they are abiding by the rules. It's not a right and wrong thing. It's simply abiding by the rules and monitoring the wrapping..

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Javier Capetillo, and offered the explanation that the “plaster-like” substances in question were actually gauzes that had been prepared two weeks before the fight with a wet cloth that caused the gauze to become humid and then hard.

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WTF?

Tony with out his rigged wraps got exposed. END OF.

Like I said before, both Cintron and Cotto need to call this phuker out ASAP.
:mad:

Really RP?
There were rumors floating for years that Craig Nettles was corking his bat,it took the thing exploding for him to finally get caught.
Gaylord Perry is in the Hall Of Fame, and he bluntly said his best pitch was a spitball
Both of those are illegal,though I will say,I have no idea why they are.
The rules call for a wooden bat and your own physical skills.So who cares if the bats hollow,or one of your physical skills is to hock a luger on cue?
Never really understood those two rules. I can see bringing in a foriegn object to scuff the ball,or loading your bat with lead shot to get more oomph behind it.

You don't know why corking a bat is illegal? Really? The ball has a cork center, cork on cork = ball goes farther.

In every sport if you aren't cheating you aren't trying. John Ruiz and the Klitschkos have bent the rules to heavyweight titles. But you can't load your gloves, you just can't. That kills people I'm shocked there isn't more outrage over this. Needs a full investigation if the CSAC can't handle it then the feds should imo. That doesn't mean you turn into Danny G but that's really bad that a fighter in the post-Billy Collins era would ever be caught with loaded gloves.

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Originally Posted by amat

You don't know why corking a bat is illegal? Really? The ball has a cork center, cork on cork = ball goes farther.

In every sport if you aren't cheating you aren't trying. John Ruiz and the Klitschkos have bent the rules to heavyweight titles. But you can't load your gloves, you just can't. That kills people I'm shocked there isn't more outrage over this. Needs a full investigation if the CSAC can't handle it then the feds should imo. That doesn't mean you turn into Danny G but that's really bad that a fighter in the post-Billy Collins era would ever be caught with loaded gloves.

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Actually the reason to cork is it increases your hand speed through the strike zone so you can sit on a pitch longer.
But its still a wooden bat.
How you cork a bat doesnt involve alot of cork,you bore out the center and pack it with wood shavings,the cork part is,you put cork over the hole,and cover it with wood glue.
It still has enough size to catch the ball in the zone but it allows the batter to sit on a changeup or a curve a little longer.

Where is the WBA in all this? This was a WBA title fight correct, shouldn't they shoulder some responsibility in checking equipment prior to the fight?
Shouldn't this be part of the sanctioning bodies tasks?

Maybe I'm out of line here, but my interpretation of "sanctioning" is saying this is a legal title fight.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

Margarito’s Camp Speaks on Hand Wraps Controversy

SportingNews.com - The Sporting Blog

While most of the news surrounding the Shane Mosley/Antonio Margarito fight this past Saturday surrounds the dominant nature of Mosley’s upset victory, the boxing world remains in a state of silent shock and anticipation over another pressing issue – the illegal substances that were discovered in Margarito’s hand wraps prior to the fight, substances that were described by both Mosley’s chief second and a representative of the California State Athletic Commission as “plaster-like.”

The substances were removed and taken by the CSAC. If, after examination, the board deems that Margarito was trying to load his gloves to add more pop to his punches, he will be punished and his reputation will take a severe hit. Meanwhile, boxing will have another black-eye controversy on its hands. Margarito’s brutal victory over Miguel Cotto last July was one of the highlights of boxing’s stellar 2008 campaign, a fight that I deemed right here at TSB to be the Fight of the Year. Should it come out that Margarito was plastering his wraps for Mosley, many will suspect that he did so against Cotto as well and that it played a role in his victory, tarnishing what right now remains Margarito’s finest moment in the ring.

The first comments on the controversy emerged today from Margarito’s camp, as Francisco Espinoza, Margarito’s co-manager, addressed the issue to the Mexican newspaper, Primera Hora. As reported over at Boxingscene.com, Espinoza denied that there had been any wrongdoing by Margarito or his trainer, Javier Capetillo, and offered the explanation that the “plaster-like” substances in question were actually gauzes that had been prepared two weeks before the fight with a wet cloth that caused the gauze to become humid and then hard.

To put it mildly, this is an explanation that leaves a lot to be desired. If you are familiar at all with “gauze,” then you are probably aware that when it gets wet, it doesn’t tend to harden into anything that could be described as “plaster-like,” not unless it has been doctored in some way.

I am a big fan of Tony Margarito and so I am not prepared to convict him without a trial. The substances removed from his gloves, whatever they were, are now in the custody of the CSAC and that body will rule on the issue in due time. Until then, I say he’s innocent until proven dirty.

That said, this is a very serious issue. In boxing’s most notorious case of glove-doctoring, Luis Resto actually did jail time for assault after pummeling Billy Collins with loaded gloves in a fight in 1983. Given the gravity of the accusation, I have been hoping since Saturday night that some plausible explanation for the condition of Margarito’s gloves would be offered quickly and succinctly by either the fighter or his camp. The crap that his co-manager came out with today does not meet those expectations, not by a longshot.

---

I know that there is room for human error in anything, but it's not like they ONLY checked his gloves for THIS fight.

Are we assuming that every time before this fight the inspection of gloves was ill-executed? As far as i know, wraps and gloves are checked in the dressing room by whichever commision, and they watch the trainer wrap the boxers hands.

This brings up a few aspects:

A.) That Tony ONLY did this for this fight, considering the same inspection/monitoring of wrapping his hands has been provided in all of his fights.

B.) That Tony has consistently done this and that the people in charge of monitoring the wrapping of boxers gloves do not do a great job, and have missed it in his previous fights.

If this same process is practiced in every fight, then I do not see how you can count Tony at fault for his previous fights.

To be honest i'm not defending him, i'm just trying to look at this situation as neutral as possible.

There are issues like this in many sports. Steroids in baseball.. Loaded bats in baseball.. Goalie's having pads that exceed the maximum size in hockey..

Granted these are not as dangerous as loaded gloves, they are still the rules of their respective leagues, and it is up to the league to catch the cheaters.

---

But who would be the 'league' in this case? The commission? So Margarito gets suspended, there's nothing to stop him from going over to New Jersey or New York for his next bout.

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

Margarito’s Camp Speaks on Hand Wraps Controversy

SportingNews.com - The Sporting Blog

While most of the news surrounding the Shane Mosley/Antonio Margarito fight this past Saturday surrounds the dominant nature of Mosley’s upset victory, the boxing world remains in a state of silent shock and anticipation over another pressing issue – the illegal substances that were discovered in Margarito’s hand wraps prior to the fight, substances that were described by both Mosley’s chief second and a representative of the California State Athletic Commission as “plaster-like.”

The substances were removed and taken by the CSAC. If, after examination, the board deems that Margarito was trying to load his gloves to add more pop to his punches, he will be punished and his reputation will take a severe hit. Meanwhile, boxing will have another black-eye controversy on its hands. Margarito’s brutal victory over Miguel Cotto last July was one of the highlights of boxing’s stellar 2008 campaign, a fight that I deemed right here at TSB to be the Fight of the Year. Should it come out that Margarito was plastering his wraps for Mosley, many will suspect that he did so against Cotto as well and that it played a role in his victory, tarnishing what right now remains Margarito’s finest moment in the ring.

The first comments on the controversy emerged today from Margarito’s camp, as Francisco Espinoza, Margarito’s co-manager, addressed the issue to the Mexican newspaper, Primera Hora. As reported over at Boxingscene.com, Espinoza denied that there had been any wrongdoing by Margarito or his trainer, Javier Capetillo, and offered the explanation that the “plaster-like” substances in question were actually gauzes that had been prepared two weeks before the fight with a wet cloth that caused the gauze to become humid and then hard.

To put it mildly, this is an explanation that leaves a lot to be desired. If you are familiar at all with “gauze,” then you are probably aware that when it gets wet, it doesn’t tend to harden into anything that could be described as “plaster-like,” not unless it has been doctored in some way.

I am a big fan of Tony Margarito and so I am not prepared to convict him without a trial. The substances removed from his gloves, whatever they were, are now in the custody of the CSAC and that body will rule on the issue in due time. Until then, I say he’s innocent until proven dirty.

That said, this is a very serious issue. In boxing’s most notorious case of glove-doctoring, Luis Resto actually did jail time for assault after pummeling Billy Collins with loaded gloves in a fight in 1983. Given the gravity of the accusation, I have been hoping since Saturday night that some plausible explanation for the condition of Margarito’s gloves would be offered quickly and succinctly by either the fighter or his camp. The crap that his co-manager came out with today does not meet those expectations, not by a longshot.

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I know that there is room for human error in anything, but it's not like they ONLY checked his gloves for THIS fight.

Are we assuming that every time before this fight the inspection of gloves was ill-executed? As far as i know, wraps and gloves are checked in the dressing room by whichever commision, and they watch the trainer wrap the boxers hands.

This brings up a few aspects:

A.) That Tony ONLY did this for this fight, considering the same inspection/monitoring of wrapping his hands has been provided in all of his fights.

B.) That Tony has consistently done this and that the people in charge of monitoring the wrapping of boxers gloves do not do a great job, and have missed it in his previous fights.

If this same process is practiced in every fight, then I do not see how you can count Tony at fault for his previous fights.

To be honest i'm not defending him, i'm just trying to look at this situation as neutral as possible.

There are issues like this in many sports. Steroids in baseball.. Loaded bats in baseball.. Goalie's having pads that exceed the maximum size in hockey..

Granted these are not as dangerous as loaded gloves, they are still the rules of their respective leagues, and it is up to the league to catch the cheaters.

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But who would be the 'league' in this case? The commission? So Margarito gets suspended, there's nothing to stop him from going over to New Jersey or New York for his next bout.

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Yes there is,commissions respect other commissions suspensions.
If this turns out to be true,he's more or less blackballed in the states, at the very least until his California liscence expires, and probably longer.

this is bad, i hope tony is innecent.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Where is the WBA in all this? This was a WBA title fight correct, shouldn't they shoulder some responsibility in checking equipment prior to the fight?
Shouldn't this be part of the sanctioning bodies tasks?

Maybe I'm out of line here, but my interpretation of "sanctioning" is saying this is a legal title fight.

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The state has to sanction the bout as well,its not just up to the WBA. So if the state athletic commission doesnt like it,you cease to have a fight.

That explanation sounds like a steaming pile of shit, although I'm hoping this ain't true, partly because of the respect I have for Margarito even if I ain't particularly a fan of his, and secondly because boxing really doesn't need this right now

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by RP33

I know that there is room for human error in anything, but it's not like they ONLY checked his gloves for THIS fight.

Are we assuming that every time before this fight the inspection of gloves was ill-executed? As far as i know, wraps and gloves are checked in the dressing room by whichever commision, and they watch the trainer wrap the boxers hands.

This brings up a few aspects:

A.) That Tony ONLY did this for this fight, considering the same inspection/monitoring of wrapping his hands has been provided in all of his fights.

B.) That Tony has consistently done this and that the people in charge of monitoring the wrapping of boxers gloves do not do a great job, and have missed it in his previous fights.

If this same process is practiced in every fight, then I do not see how you can count Tony at fault for his previous fights.

To be honest i'm not defending him, i'm just trying to look at this situation as neutral as possible.

There are issues like this in many sports. Steroids in baseball.. Loaded bats in baseball.. Goalie's having pads that exceed the maximum size in hockey..

Granted these are not as dangerous as loaded gloves, they are still the rules of their respective leagues, and it is up to the league to catch the cheaters.

---

But who would be the 'league' in this case? The commission? So Margarito gets suspended, there's nothing to stop him from going over to New Jersey or New York for his next bout.

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Yes there is,commissions respect other commissions suspensions.
If this turns out to be true,he's more or less blackballed in the states, at the very least until his California liscence expires, and probably longer.

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Yeah, remember when Holyfield got suspended in New York after the Bryd Fight, He could not fight anywhere in the US until the NY suspension was lifted. Although Tony could always go and fight in mexico.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

That explanation sounds like a steaming pile of shit, although I'm hoping this ain't true, partly because of the respect I have for Margarito even if I ain't particularly a fan of his, and secondly because boxing really doesn't need this right now

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Dont get me wrong,I like Margarito,but if this is the best explanation his camp can offer..............
Somebody is getting suspended
I hope this turns out to be nothing for his sake,because if it turns out to be for real,he is in deep trouble.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Where is the WBA in all this? This was a WBA title fight correct, shouldn't they shoulder some responsibility in checking equipment prior to the fight?
Shouldn't this be part of the sanctioning bodies tasks?

Maybe I'm out of line here, but my interpretation of "sanctioning" is saying this is a legal title fight.

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The state has to sanction the bout as well,its not just up to the WBA. So if the state athletic commission doesnt like it,you cease to have a fight.

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Fine, why weren't either the California State Athletic Commision OR the WBA involved, between the money in sanctioning fees these two organizations get SOME of it should surely go to making sure the equipment is up to code.

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Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Killface

But who would be the 'league' in this case? The commission? So Margarito gets suspended, there's nothing to stop him from going over to New Jersey or New York for his next bout.

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Yes there is,commissions respect other commissions suspensions.
If this turns out to be true,he's more or less blackballed in the states, at the very least until his California liscence expires, and probably longer.

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Yeah, remember when Holyfield got suspended in New York after the Bryd Fight, He could not fight anywhere in the US until the NY suspension was lifted. Although Tony could always go and fight in mexico.

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Same thing with Mesi,he had to wait until his Nevada license expired before he could apply in another state. Nobody in any state commission is going to to piss all over another states decision on a suspension,its just not done.

Well what pisses me off is how they never caught it before and also i no nothin about what they are saying can that happen to the gloves.

I hope it isnt true, loading up your glove is a serious crime. I'd hate for tony to do jail time, he just doesn't seem to be that type of guy. I really believe he had no idea if his gloves were loaded. As much as I loved how shane won, I think they totally fucked up tony's concentration with this bullshit. Im not making excuses for tony but anybody who is getting ready to go into a fight after a long long preperation and training period, would have flash backs of his accomplishment and worry he would be accuse of something very serious.

Another person im worried about is cotto, heres a young undefeated guy who has all the potential to be one of the greatest. Yet he loses to tony who is currently under investigation. I have questions like, what if cotto will never be the same fighter after that devestating defeat to tony and he lost because tonys gloves were loaded. it would be a real shame, that is why i can not get mad at guys like danny g.

I just hope this turns out to be nothing and cottos lost to tony is legit, and they both carry on their careers.

I dont like it.Lets be very clear,nothing is conclusive and finalized regarding this weekend.I can not and will not speculate and cast out a mans career and charectar on speculation and inconclusive circumstances.From what Ive seen live and on video post Cotto in the ring,there was a man with zero to hide,oblivious to wrong doing and flaunting his wraps all over for all to see.There are MANY people that have questions to answer,A fighter stands alone in the ring...but before and after they rely on Commissions,Santioning bodies,the State officials and his handlers to take care of surrounding aspects and enforcing the rules.Tony will and has taken the hit alone though.Frankly,my mind is pretty fukked up right now.

The people have to understand when boxers going to fight should use a new dry Hand-Wraps for boxing , not that humid Hand-Wraps or gauze with sustance for feel more harder their fist ,that was that created the big issue , i hope all this thing is not true , this will affect all Margaros career ....................Is sad to see all of this issue :(

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Really RP?
There were rumors floating for years that Craig Nettles was corking his bat,it took the thing exploding for him to finally get caught.
Gaylord Perry is in the Hall Of Fame, and he bluntly said his best pitch was a spitball
Both of those are illegal,though I will say,I have no idea why they are.
The rules call for a wooden bat and your own physical skills.So who cares if the bats hollow,or one of your physical skills is to hock a luger on cue?
Never really understood those two rules. I can see bringing in a foriegn object to scuff the ball,or loading your bat with lead shot to get more oomph behind it.

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You can't compare modern day sports to the past, there is just too much differential over the last 30 years.. Nowadays, anytime a manager walks out of the dugout and has a good enough reason to check a bat for excessive pine tar or corking, chances are that it will be done..

With instant replay and the technology we have today, spitballs would easily be detected.. It's basically anything to change the appearance of the ball, and with cameras today, you can stop a hummingbirds wings, so you can easily stop a pitch while it's on it's way to the plate.

I just used those as an example, and i'll say it AGAIN.. These incidents do not effect someones life in the way that loaded gloves would. I find it VERY hard to believe that ANYONE would be apprehensive to question someones wrappings before putting gloves on.. This is the persons job to make sure the wrappings are safe and legal..

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Originally Posted by Killface

But who would be the 'league' in this case? The commission? So Margarito gets suspended, there's nothing to stop him from going over to New Jersey or New York for his next bout.

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Whoever is inspecting his wrapping is the league. If that's the commision, then yes..

If he got caught in New Jersey for attempting to load his gloves, and it was publicized, like this incident has, do you think that if he's fighting in New York that they wouldn't pay close attention to this?

We're getting off track here.. my point was simply that it is someones job, and responsibility to make it a fair fight. This includes monitoring the wrapping of his gloves. If he loads his gloves, and they do not see it, then they're failing to do their job. They should be held responsible for it.

Cmon,everybody secretly knows Bonds was juicing on HGH,just without proof,what can you do.
And if you broke in to his house screaming "AHA,IVE GOT YOU NOW" and there was no got to get,youd look pretty bad

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Where is the WBA in all this? This was a WBA title fight correct, shouldn't they shoulder some responsibility in checking equipment prior to the fight?
Shouldn't this be part of the sanctioning bodies tasks?

Maybe I'm out of line here, but my interpretation of "sanctioning" is saying this is a legal title fight.

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The state has to sanction the bout as well,its not just up to the WBA. So if the state athletic commission doesnt like it,you cease to have a fight.

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Fine, why weren't either the California State Athletic Commision OR the WBA involved, between the money in sanctioning fees these two organizations get SOME of it should surely go to making sure the equipment is up to code.

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My bet is somebody in Mosely's camp knew he was juicing his wraps.They dont check wraps that heavily normally. The guys both train within miles of each other,so its not beyond the pale that someone who was in Mosely's camp used to be in Margarito's.
My bet is somebody quietly said,"You wanna check his wraps". And Id think the quiet voice had to be pretty sure,before he wanted a double check.
I still hope this all turns out to be BS,because Margarito is a fun fighter to watch. But hearing that explanation makes me seriously consider that it isnt.

this truly saddens me, a mexican is guilty before proven innocent? its a shame how we are treated.

Margarito is innocent.

please guys lets not focus on this because we already have it rough in america, lets just ignore this BS even if margarito was found with a plaster just who cares? im sick of mexicans always being under scrutiny.

why is it ok for mosley to cheat with roids and people let him slide after he admitted to injecting himself?
how come no one talk about pacquiao admitting to cheating and lying about his age? pacman said he put steel in his pants to make weight and even dishonestly lied he was 16 years old and said he was 18, why is it ok for that?

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Originally Posted by Moono

this truly saddens me, a mexican is guilty before proven innocent? its a shame how we are treated.

Margarito is innocent.

please guys lets not focus on this because we already have it rough in america, lets just ignore this BS even if margarito was found with a plaster just who cares? im sick of mexicans always being under scrutiny.

why is it ok for mosley to cheat with roids and people let him slide after he admitted to injecting himself?
how come no one talk about pacquiao admitting to cheating and lying about his age? pacman said he put steel in his pants to make weight and even dishonestly lied he was 16 years old and said he was 18, why is it ok for that?

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Oh do shut up,everybody is hoping he's innocent,we've just been going over the consequences if he isnt.
Stop it with this poor pitiful Mexican routine

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Cmon,everybody secretly knows Bonds was juicing on HGH,just without proof,what can you do.
And if you broke in to his house screaming "AHA,IVE GOT YOU NOW" and there was no got to get,youd look pretty bad

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There are accounts of Bonds testing positive for steroids.. Unfortunately it was before the steroid tests were implemented. Therefore, when you have money, and some big names working for you, you will find those loopholes (See: OJ Simpson)..

It's not a secret, and they have proof.

This is still a chemical test versus a human witnessing a physical object being illegal..

This is a BIG deal, and in sports, ESPECIALLY as testosterone driven as boxing, I don't think there needs to be a quiet voice.. If someone travels in a basketball game, everyone yells "THATS A TRAVEL!!" to the ref.. I don't think that if someones life was on the line, anyone would be quiet about worrying about loaded gloves.

You're used to boxing, financially, on a much much much much lesser level.. and i don't mean that in a bad way at all.. i'm just saying that these boxers are making millions upon millions.. the promoters are very wealthy, and these are professionals.. If there is not someone monitoring the wrapping of gloves in every fight, then there are issues far beyond this one incident.

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Originally Posted by Moono

this truly saddens me, a mexican is guilty before proven innocent? its a shame how we are treated.

Margarito is innocent.

please guys lets not focus on this because we already have it rough in america, lets just ignore this BS even if margarito was found with a plaster just who cares? im sick of mexicans always being under scrutiny.

why is it ok for mosley to cheat with roids and people let him slide after he admitted to injecting himself?
how come no one talk about pacquiao admitting to cheating and lying about his age? pacman said he put steel in his pants to make weight and even dishonestly lied he was 16 years old and said he was 18, why is it ok for that?

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Mosley is BLACK, you idiot. If you're going to talk about being racist in America you should at least be smart enough to compare this to a White Male.

Woe is you.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Cmon,everybody secretly knows Bonds was juicing on HGH,just without proof,what can you do.
And if you broke in to his house screaming "AHA,IVE GOT YOU NOW" and there was no got to get,youd look pretty bad

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There are accounts of Bonds testing positive for steroids.. Unfortunately it was before the steroid tests were implemented. Therefore, when you have money, and some big names working for you, you will find those loopholes (See: OJ Simpson)..

It's not a secret, and they have proof.

This is still a chemical test versus a human witnessing a physical object being illegal..

This is a BIG deal, and in sports, ESPECIALLY as testosterone driven as boxing, I don't think there needs to be a quiet voice.. If someone travels in a basketball game, everyone yells "THATS A TRAVEL!!" to the ref.. I don't think that if someones life was on the line, anyone would be quiet about worrying about loaded gloves.

You're used to boxing, financially, on a much much much much lesser level.. and i don't mean that in a bad way at all.. i'm just saying that these boxers are making millions upon millions.. the promoters are very wealthy, and these are professionals.. If there is not someone monitoring the wrapping of gloves in every fight, then there are issues far beyond this one incident.

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They really arent,the cuts are the same levels,its just the size of the pie. Those cuts are more or less industry standards,in some cases they're mandated by law,in some cases we just agree to do it like that.
So we've had this discussion before about boxer pay.
And Im a little higher on the food chain then you think,Ive booked a little higher then that.
By the time it reaches fight night,the promoter is only there to wave and wear a nice suit. At that point its down to the event coordinators,you can almost watch them develop grey hairs,boxers are like herding cats. The commision guy is overworked as hell too, he gives the wraps a perfunctory little squeeze at best,even for a prize fight.
Now in this case,the commision is saying they saw dust come off his wraps,very well could be true.
But I have a suspicion somebody knew something

I'm sure I read somewhere that because it was discovered brfore Margarito got in the ring the worst he can expect even if he's found to have had illegal stuff in his gloves is a fine.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Cmon,everybody secretly knows Bonds was juicing on HGH,just without proof,what can you do.
And if you broke in to his house screaming "AHA,IVE GOT YOU NOW" and there was no got to get,youd look pretty bad

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There are accounts of Bonds testing positive for steroids.. Unfortunately it was before the steroid tests were implemented. Therefore, when you have money, and some big names working for you, you will find those loopholes (See: OJ Simpson)..

It's not a secret, and they have proof.

This is still a chemical test versus a human witnessing a physical object being illegal..

This is a BIG deal, and in sports, ESPECIALLY as testosterone driven as boxing, I don't think there needs to be a quiet voice.. If someone travels in a basketball game, everyone yells "THATS A TRAVEL!!" to the ref.. I don't think that if someones life was on the line, anyone would be quiet about worrying about loaded gloves.

You're used to boxing, financially, on a much much much much lesser level.. and i don't mean that in a bad way at all.. i'm just saying that these boxers are making millions upon millions.. the promoters are very wealthy, and these are professionals.. If there is not someone monitoring the wrapping of gloves in every fight, then there are issues far beyond this one incident.

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They really arent,the cuts are the same levels,its just the size of the pie. Those cuts are more or less industry standards,in some cases they're mandated by law,in some cases we just agree to do it like that.
So we've had this discussion before about boxer pay.
And Im a little higher on the food chain then you think,Ive booked a little higher then that.
By the time it reaches fight night,the promoter is only there to wave and wear a nice suit. At that point its down to the event coordinators,you can almost watch them develop grey hairs,boxers are like herding cats. The commision guy is overworked as hell too, he gives the wraps a perfunctory little squeeze at best,even for a prize fight.
Now in this case,the commision is saying they saw dust come off his wraps,very well could be true.
But I have a suspicion somebody knew something

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Can you not be defensive for a second? I don't know if that's possible man.. All i'm saying is that your fights are on a whole different level than these fights.. Don't even entertain the thought that the funds involved with what you do are similar to an HBO, Showtime or PPV fight. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with you not being on that level, but clearly if you're defending yourself in such a way, maybe you do. Believe me, I was not taking a shot at you.

Regardless of how overworked ANYONE is. These are PROFESSIONALS. Does my boss give a shitt what my reason was that i didn't get something done on time? Unless it was health related, HELL NO. Point being that this is something VERY important if your god damn name is on the belt at stake, and/or if your promotion company is promoting the fight.

You sometimes tend to get a little too involved with intricacies because you feel you know a lot about the sport. We're talking big picture here. Big money. Hundreds of thousands - Millions of viewers. PROFESSIONALS. This is a business.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I'm sure I read somewhere that because it was discovered brfore Margarito got in the ring the worst he can expect even if he's found to have had illegal stuff in his gloves is a fine.

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He was allready looking at a 30 day no contact suspension for getting KTFO,you add this in,if its proven,we're looking at a possible indefinite. And with the high profile of it,I allmost guarantee that.
Yes a commission can do that to you,and in this case,if its proven,I bet they do.

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Originally Posted by RP33

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by RP33

There are accounts of Bonds testing positive for steroids.. Unfortunately it was before the steroid tests were implemented. Therefore, when you have money, and some big names working for you, you will find those loopholes (See: OJ Simpson)..

It's not a secret, and they have proof.

This is still a chemical test versus a human witnessing a physical object being illegal..

This is a BIG deal, and in sports, ESPECIALLY as testosterone driven as boxing, I don't think there needs to be a quiet voice.. If someone travels in a basketball game, everyone yells "THATS A TRAVEL!!" to the ref.. I don't think that if someones life was on the line, anyone would be quiet about worrying about loaded gloves.

You're used to boxing, financially, on a much much much much lesser level.. and i don't mean that in a bad way at all.. i'm just saying that these boxers are making millions upon millions.. the promoters are very wealthy, and these are professionals.. If there is not someone monitoring the wrapping of gloves in every fight, then there are issues far beyond this one incident.

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They really arent,the cuts are the same levels,its just the size of the pie. Those cuts are more or less industry standards,in some cases they're mandated by law,in some cases we just agree to do it like that.
So we've had this discussion before about boxer pay.
And Im a little higher on the food chain then you think,Ive booked a little higher then that.
By the time it reaches fight night,the promoter is only there to wave and wear a nice suit. At that point its down to the event coordinators,you can almost watch them develop grey hairs,boxers are like herding cats. The commision guy is overworked as hell too, he gives the wraps a perfunctory little squeeze at best,even for a prize fight.
Now in this case,the commision is saying they saw dust come off his wraps,very well could be true.
But I have a suspicion somebody knew something

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Can you not be defensive for a second? I don't know if that's possible man.. All i'm saying is that your fights are on a whole different level than these fights.. Don't even entertain the thought that the funds involved with what you do are similar to an HBO, Showtime or PPV fight. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with you not being on that level, but clearly if you're defending yourself in such a way, maybe you do. Believe me, I was not taking a shot at you.

Regardless of how overworked ANYONE is. These are PROFESSIONALS. Does my boss give a shitt what my reason was that i didn't get something done on time? Unless it was health related, HELL NO. Point being that this is something VERY important if your god damn name is on the belt at stake, and/or if your promotion company is promoting the fight.

You sometimes tend to get a little too involved with intricacies because you feel you know a lot about the sport. We're talking big picture here. Big money. Hundreds of thousands - Millions of viewers. PROFESSIONALS. This is a business.

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No,you misread me,there are governing bodies,that mandate how much you can take from the purse.
And big fights or small,its allways the same level of panic to make sure it all goes off without a hitch. Its rife with an opportunity for something to slip under the wire. Matter of fact the bigger fights a better chance then the smaller ones. Because its just more hectic. If Im putting on a fight in say Blacksburg,well its only so many fighters to deal with,and the commisioner is probably there,because their isnt alot of pro fights in Virginia anyway. If I tried to slide something under the wire there,Id bet Id get get caught trying it. California has high profile cards all the time,and nobody can be everywhere at the same time. Hell Id hate to be commisioner there.
Give me a slot on a commission where maybe one pro fight happens a month.
Ive done big and Ive done small,and while I havent done GREAT BIG,Im sure they are just as chaotic as the others,and Im betting even moreso

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I'm sure I read somewhere that because it was discovered brfore Margarito got in the ring the worst he can expect even if he's found to have had illegal stuff in his gloves is a fine.

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He was allready looking at a 30 day no contact suspension for getting KTFO,you add this in,if its proven,we're looking at a possible indefinite. And with the high profile of it,I allmost guarantee that.
Yes a commission can do that to you,and in this case,if its proven,I bet they do.

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I don't think it should make any difference when they discovered it, Margarito and the seconds involved should be banned from boxing for life if it's found to be true. I'm just passing on what I read somewhere. Like you say because it's such a high profile fight they almost have no choice anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

I'm sure I read somewhere that because it was discovered brfore Margarito got in the ring the worst he can expect even if he's found to have had illegal stuff in his gloves is a fine.

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He was allready looking at a 30 day no contact suspension for getting KTFO,you add this in,if its proven,we're looking at a possible indefinite. And with the high profile of it,I allmost guarantee that.
Yes a commission can do that to you,and in this case,if its proven,I bet they do.

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I don't think it should make any difference when they discovered it, Margarito and the seconds involved should be banned from boxing for life if it's found to be true. I'm just passing on what I read somewhere. Like you say because it's such a high profile fight they almost have no choice anyway.

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Thats what Ive been trying to say, with the profile of the fight, I dont see how in the hell the commission doesnt hit him with at least an indefinite suspension.And again I want it stressed,if the wraps come up positive for plaster of paris, they shouldnt have been doctoring his guaze anyway,thats just begging for troubles, but if they come up for plaster of paris
Ugggghhhhhhh
Its just going to be a black eye for the whole sport if he's caught using it,and doesnt at least get an indefinite