Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero cracks Ring Mag's P4P List

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. JM Marquez
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Mosley
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ivan Calderon
9. Hatton
10. Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero

Hope Caballero can land a fight with no. 5 Izzy or no. 7 Rafa... 122 is a very hot division ...
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. JM Marquez
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Mosley
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ivan Calderon
9. Hatton
10. Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero

Hope Caballero can land a fight with no. 5 Izzy or no. 7 Rafa... 122 is a very hot division ...
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Look at Mosley coming in at #6!! I find it odd that Caballero is entered now and not directly after beating Molitor, grats to him though.

We will try to group these top 10 boxers according to who can fight who.

Group 1:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. JM Marquez
9. Hatton

Group 2:
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins

Group 3:
5. Israel Vazquez
7. Rafael Marquez
10. Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero

Group 4:
6. Mosley

Group 5:
8. Ivan Calderon


According to this groupings, Caballero should fight Vazquez or Rafa next...;)

Mosley might be too big for group 1 boxers... Ivan is so lonely at the top... ;)
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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. JM Marquez
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Mosley
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ivan Calderon
9. Hatton
10. Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero

Hope Caballero can land a fight with no. 5 Izzy or no. 7 Rafa... 122 is a very hot division ...
.

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Look at Mosley coming in at #6!! I find it odd that Caballero is entered now and not directly after beating Molitor, grats to him though.

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Why is Celestino Caballero there though ? other fighters like.

Chad Dawson
Chris John
Sergiy Dzinziruk
Vic Darchinyan

ETC.

I think all these fighters have a much better case, Steve Molitor was a good fighter. But he was still unproven IMO, and he wasn't really close to the top 10 P4P rankings, i just find it odd why now they choose to have Celestino Caballero there.

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

Caballero's wins over Ponce De Leon, Somsak, Lorenzo Parra, Steve Molitor got some recognition...

Roberto Duran might also have elevated Caballero's popularity... ;)
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I had no idea Caballero was closing in on the top 10 p4p. I thought he would be in the 14-20 range.

he should go up two DIVISION'S

Should of been in there after beating Parra.

disagree
but he wont be up there for long if someone get an impressive win he'll get knockdown like paul williams

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Should of been in there after beating Parra.

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Certainly debatable but I think maybe he should have, you can make that case for many other fighters though.

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Should of been in there after beating Parra.

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Certainly debatable but I think maybe he should have, you can make that case for many other fighters though.

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I agree. There other fighters that are worthy. But I like the Caballero choice. Molitor was far from great. And I think will wind up being an overrated fighter (if he's not already). But he was undefeated. And had a following of believers. Caballero deserves credit for exposing him.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. JM Marquez
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Mosley
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ivan Calderon
9. Hatton
10. Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero

Hope Caballero can land a fight with no. 5 Izzy or no. 7 Rafa... 122 is a very hot division ...
.

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Look at Mosley coming in at #6!! I find it odd that Caballero is entered now and not directly after beating Molitor, grats to him though.

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With Margarito exiting it meant Cotto also went which created an vacant spot. Had Margarito won Cotto would have remained!

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Why is Celestino Caballero there though ? other fighters like.

Chad Dawson
Chris John
Sergiy Dzinziruk
Vic Darchinyan

ETC.

I think all these fighters have a much better case, Steve Molitor was a good fighter. But he was still unproven IMO, and he wasn't really close to the top 10 P4P rankings, i just find it odd why now they choose to have Celestino Caballero there.

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Chad arguably lost to Johnson, John has done nothing since fighting Marquez & that win is disputable, Caballero's opposition is superior to Dzindziruk's imo & Donaire would have to be above Darchinyan! Caballero has a good argument to be there!!!

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Caballero's wins over Ponce De Leon, Somsak, Lorenzo Parra, Steve Molitor got some recognition...

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Exactly! Some quality & dominate wins there!!!

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. JM Marquez
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Mosley
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Ivan Calderon
9. Hatton
10. Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero

Hope Caballero can land a fight with no. 5 Izzy or no. 7 Rafa... 122 is a very hot division ...
.

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Look at Mosley coming in at #6!! I find it odd that Caballero is entered now and not directly after beating Molitor, grats to him though.

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With Margarito exiting it meant Cotto also went which created an vacant spot. Had Margarito won Cotto would have remained!

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Originally Posted by ICB

Why is Celestino Caballero there though ? other fighters like.

Chad Dawson
Chris John
Sergiy Dzinziruk
Vic Darchinyan

ETC.

I think all these fighters have a much better case, Steve Molitor was a good fighter. But he was still unproven IMO, and he wasn't really close to the top 10 P4P rankings, i just find it odd why now they choose to have Celestino Caballero there.

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Chad arguably lost to Johnson, John has done nothing since fighting Marquez & that win is disputable, Caballero's opposition is superior to Dzindziruk's imo & Donaire would have to be above Darchinyan! Caballero has a good argument to be there!!!

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Caballero's wins over Ponce De Leon, Somsak, Lorenzo Parra, Steve Molitor got some recognition...

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Exactly! Some quality & dominate wins there!!!

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It is closer than that.

Dzinzurik beat Daniel Santos, Konecny, and Joel Julio and is undefeated after 36 professional fights. Maybe he is just very close to the top ten. One more win over a quality opponent should land him in there.

John merits a spot or very close to a spot if he wins his fight in February.

Since losing to Donaire, Darchinyan been very active. He has fought four times with wins over Kirilov and Mijares who was a top ten p4p. Donaire has fought twice and neither fight was on the level of Mijares. Nonetheless, Vic should make the list if he beats Arce.

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

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Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

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Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

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Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Preme

Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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It still was a good win regardless yes Eric Harding wasn't in his prime, but he was still a good fighter who was atleast top 6 in the division if my memory serves me right.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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It still was a good win regardless yes Eric Harding wasn't in his prime, but he was still a good fighter who was atleast top 6 in the division if my memory serves me right.

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At the end of the day, Dawson's time is coming, Caballero's time is now.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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It still was a good win regardless yes Eric Harding wasn't in his prime, but he was still a good fighter who was atleast top 6 in the division if my memory serves me right.

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At the end of the day, Dawson's time is coming, Caballero's time is now.

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Sheep is right. Dawson deserves to be near the top ten, but not quite there.

Speaking of Adamek, if he beats Banks, in the last year and a half he has beat three top ten cruiserweights in Banks, Bell, and Cunningham.

If Pwill beats Winkie, he too has an argument for the top ten.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

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Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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It's not worth debating Preme the kid is a moron.

I agree with you Ice, suprised to see Caballero in the top 10. Dawson is definitely closing in, ignoring what Preme says wins over Johnson, Adamek and Tarver are all great performances, especially seeing as Tarver shutout Clinton Woods in the fight prior and Adamek has gone on to score two huge wins at cruiserweight against O'Neil Bell and Steve Cunningham.

I'd probably have Paul Williams above Cabellero too, big wins over Margartio, Quintana and Phillips.

Still it's good Cabellero is getting recognition at least, he has some impressive wins.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

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Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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He fought a really close fight with Glen Johnson regardless of who wins that one, he beat Thomasz Adamek almost every single round(The top cruiserweight in the world) and one of the best LHW's before Chad beat him, He beat Tarver almost every round, and he beat Eric Harding almost every round.

Are you honestly going to say Caballero deserves to be in the top 10 p4p more than him?

I honeslty think Wladimir Klitschko deserves a mention he has beaten a lot of name fighters and guys who are good at heavyweight since he last was knocked out, including avenging that loss. IMO I would have him above Caballero based on opposition.

Also I don't even think Caballero is as good JML, this kid beat Ponce De Leon way faster, Destroyed Andrade, Figueora, and now Medina all in the first round. I'm not sure if even Marquez or Vazquez will be able to handle JML I think he should be in there even anyone besides the two mexicans deserve to be at 122.

Also p4p isn't just about opposition, its how good you are, Mayweather before he had a huge resume was up there because people could see how good he was, Caballero isn't as good as Chad Dawson or JML thats why I don't think he belongs there.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Pugilistic

I personally would have Dawson at 10.

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Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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He fought a really close fight with Glen Johnson regardless of who wins that one, he beat Thomasz Adamek almost every single round(The top cruiserweight in the world) and one of the best LHW's before Chad beat him, He beat Tarver almost every round, and he beat Eric Harding almost every round.

Are you honestly going to say Caballero deserves to be in the top 10 p4p more than him?

I honeslty think Wladimir Klitschko deserves a mention he has beaten a lot of name fighters and guys who are good at heavyweight since he last was knocked out, including avenging that loss. IMO I would have him above Caballero based on opposition.

Also I don't even think Caballero is as good JML, this kid beat Ponce De Leon way faster, Destroyed Andrade, Figueora, and now Medina all in the first round. I'm not sure if even Marquez or Vazquez will be able to handle JML I think he should be in there even anyone besides the two mexicans deserve to be at 122.

Also p4p isn't just about opposition, its how good you are, Mayweather before he had a huge resume was up there because people could see how good he was, Caballero isn't as good as Chad Dawson or JML thats why I don't think he belongs there.

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If you take away the opposition argument, it becomes even more subjective though. Based on talent alone the whole list changes. When you bring in the mix of talent AND opposition it will still be gray especially towards the bottom of the p4p list, there are many fighters knocking on the door of the p4p list Dawson, Williams, Klitschko, Adamek etc. However you look at it though a good case can be made for Caballero, personally I wouldn't have put him there, but I don't really have a problem with him being there, he has a great resume and a style that could trouble just about anyone in the division.

I'm sorry but Dawson and Klitschko both have a better resume. I would place plenty of guys ahead of Caballero, he might be in my top 20, but not way in my top 20, not even top 15.

There is Wlad, Vitali, Pavlik, Kessler, Haye(unified Cruiserweight champ before going up), Joan Guzman, Campbell, JML, Wright.

I just hate the flavor of the month getting all the credit in the world.

lopez and haye deserve it more

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I'm sorry but Dawson and Klitschko both have a better resume. I would place plenty of guys ahead of Caballero, he might be in my top 20, but not way in my top 20, not even top 15.

There is Wlad, Vitali, Pavlik, Kessler, Haye(unified Cruiserweight champ before going up), Joan Guzman, Campbell, JML, Wright.

I just hate the flavor of the month getting all the credit in the world.

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What flavor of the month? Caballero has been beating quality opposition since 2005. His resume easily trumps that of Haye. Kessler, Guzman and Lopez. He's worthy of his placement.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I'm sorry but Dawson and Klitschko both have a better resume. I would place plenty of guys ahead of Caballero, he might be in my top 20, but not way in my top 20, not even top 15.

There is Wlad, Vitali, Pavlik, Kessler, Haye(unified Cruiserweight champ before going up), Joan Guzman, Campbell, JML, Wright.

I just hate the flavor of the month getting all the credit in the world.

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What flavor of the month? Caballero has been beating quality opposition since 2005. His resume easily trumps that of Haye. Kessler, Guzman and Lopez. He's worthy of his placement.

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Molitor I really like him as a tactician, but he would fold up and be blown in the wind by JML, Vazquez and Marquez.? Overrated super slow Ponce De Leon? Both PDL and Andrade fought Caballero and JML, Caballero beat Ponce De Leon over 12 rounds and Andrade was losing and was DQ'ed in 10, JML beat them in a combined 1 round.

Joan Guzman doens't have the quality opponents yet, but he is clearly better.

Kessler has Mundine and Calzaghe which is better than anything Caballero has fought. Not to mention Beyer, Eric Lucas, Andrade, and once again he is clearly better, giving Calzaghe one hell of a fight where he was just being outworked, but landing huge shots and hurting Calzaghe several times.

Haye beats him with Mormeck, Glen Kelly, Enzo Maccarinelli, even Monte Barrett is better name.

Clearly Jermain Taylor, Kessler, Wlad Klitschko, Especially Winky Wright despite his inactivity deserve the position more.

I mean Jermain Taylor was KO'ed once, but besides that lost a close fight to Pavlik, had two close fights with Hopkins, beat Ouma, destroyed Lacy.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I'm sorry but Dawson and Klitschko both have a better resume. I would place plenty of guys ahead of Caballero, he might be in my top 20, but not way in my top 20, not even top 15.

There is Wlad, Vitali, Pavlik, Kessler, Haye(unified Cruiserweight champ before going up), Joan Guzman, Campbell, JML, Wright.

I just hate the flavor of the month getting all the credit in the world.

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What flavor of the month? Caballero has been beating quality opposition since 2005. His resume easily trumps that of Haye. Kessler, Guzman and Lopez. He's worthy of his placement.

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Molitor I really like him as a tactician, but he would fold up and be blown in the wind by JML, Vazquez and Marquez.? Overrated super slow Ponce De Leon? Both PDL and Andrade fought Caballero and JML, Caballero beat Ponce De Leon over 12 rounds and Andrade was losing and was DQ'ed in 10, JML beat them in a combined 1 round.

Joan Guzman doens't have the quality opponents yet, but he is clearly better.

Kessler has Mundine and Calzaghe which is better than anything Caballero has fought. Not to mention Beyer, Eric Lucas, Andrade, and once again he is clearly better, giving Calzaghe one hell of a fight where he was just being outworked, but landing huge shots and hurting Calzaghe several times.

Haye beats him with Mormeck, Glen Kelly, Enzo Maccarinelli, even Monte Barrett is better name.

Clearly Jermain Taylor, Kessler, Wlad Klitschko, Especially Winky Wright despite his inactivity deserve the position more.

I mean Jermain Taylor was KO'ed once, but besides that lost a close fight to Pavlik, had two close fights with Hopkins, beat Ouma, destroyed Lacy.

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You need to really follow Boxing to really appreciate Caballero. Aside from De Leon and Molitor, Caballero also holds wins over Somsak Sithchatsomething (who was like 40-1 coming into the fight), the excellent Lorenzo Parra and the fading Mauricio Pastrana. Easily better than some of the fighters you listed.

Joan Guzman- You said it yourself. Doesn't have the quality opponents. He's very skilled. But so are Gamboa, Con and several other fighters. Why not list them?

David Haye- He has Mormeck. That's it. Enzo is crap. Glenn Kelly (are you fukking kidding me?) is beyound crap. Monte Barrett can't win a big fight if his life depended on it.

Mikkel Kessler- He's got some decent wins. But his career is going backwards. Him punking out against Miranda was a straight coward move.

Winky Wright- He ain't won a fight in almost 3 years. He's inactivity is killing him. But a win over Williams erases all that.

Jermain Taylor- I wouldn't have a problem if he's rated above Caballero. His resume is outstanding.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

What flavor of the month? Caballero has been beating quality opposition since 2005. His resume easily trumps that of Haye. Kessler, Guzman and Lopez. He's worthy of his placement.

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Molitor I really like him as a tactician, but he would fold up and be blown in the wind by JML, Vazquez and Marquez.? Overrated super slow Ponce De Leon? Both PDL and Andrade fought Caballero and JML, Caballero beat Ponce De Leon over 12 rounds and Andrade was losing and was DQ'ed in 10, JML beat them in a combined 1 round.

Joan Guzman doens't have the quality opponents yet, but he is clearly better.

Kessler has Mundine and Calzaghe which is better than anything Caballero has fought. Not to mention Beyer, Eric Lucas, Andrade, and once again he is clearly better, giving Calzaghe one hell of a fight where he was just being outworked, but landing huge shots and hurting Calzaghe several times.

Haye beats him with Mormeck, Glen Kelly, Enzo Maccarinelli, even Monte Barrett is better name.

Clearly Jermain Taylor, Kessler, Wlad Klitschko, Especially Winky Wright despite his inactivity deserve the position more.

I mean Jermain Taylor was KO'ed once, but besides that lost a close fight to Pavlik, had two close fights with Hopkins, beat Ouma, destroyed Lacy.

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You need to really follow Boxing to really appreciate Caballero. Aside from De Leon and Molitor, Caballero also holds wins over Somsak Sithchatsomething (who was like 40-1 coming into the fight), the excellent Lorenzo Parra and the fading Mauricio Pastrana. Easily better than some of the fighters you listed.

Joan Guzman- You said it yourself. Doesn't have the quality opponents. He's very skilled. But so are Gamboa, Con and several other fighters. Why not list them?

David Haye- He has Mormeck. That's it. Enzo is crap. Glenn Kelly (are you fukking kidding me?) is beyound crap. Monte Barrett can't win a big fight if his life depended on it.

Mikkel Kessler- He's got some decent wins. But his career is going backwards. Him punking out against Miranda was a straight coward move.

Winky Wright- He ain't won a fight in almost 3 years. He's inactivity is killing him. But a win over Williams erases all that.

Jermain Taylor- I wouldn't have a problem if he's rated above Caballero. His resume is outstanding.

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JT, Winky, and Kessler should not be p4p. We aren't talking p4p of the last five years, but current p4p. JT is 1-2 in his last three fights and his win is against Jeff Lacy. Winky hasn't fought in two years and his last fight was a loss against Hopkins. Kessler hasn't fought quality competition in over a year and that was a loss against Calzaghe.

David Haye hasn't done anything to merit a p4p ranking.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Preme

Dawson got pasy johnson by the skin of his teeth, and beat Tarver, that's it. Man the guy looks like he has skills but has done nothing at all to be spoken about as a top 10 p4p fighter in the world right now... not even close.

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What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

What about Tomasz Adamek ? Eric Harding ?

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Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Eric Harding didn't mean shit at that point of Harding's career. Adamek on the other hand is a huge win. Still, Point in fact Caballero is a unified strap holder in one of, if not the deepest division in boxing. His wins over an undefeated DPDL and Molitor are a huge acheivement.

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I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I think Adamek and Tarver are bigger wins than Molitor and De Leon personally, Adamek is now the Ring Champion at cruiserweight and Tarver has been the Ring Champ at light heavyweight and looked great in regaining his title over Clinton Woods in the fight prior.

I like Molitor but let's be real he was a paper champ, hadn't fought anyone remotely world class. De Leon, well I think he's been exposed a bit now.

Cabellero is definitely fighting in the strongest division, but he's not faced any of the best in that division yet, Vazquez, Marquez, Lopez are still fights that need to be made.

But I don't really object to him being there, he certainly looked great in taking Molitor apart and he'll spell trouble for anyone in that division.

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Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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I personally would have Dawson ahead in my own p4p rankings, but like I said earlier, I think the outrage is blown out of proportion. I don't think having Caballero is that crazy to have there, in fact I don't have a problem with it, that is the fundamental point I've been trying to make this whole time. Dawson really isn't helping his case by rematching Tarver either, that would be like Calzaghe giving an immediate rematch to Lacy. Cab DOES have wins over the current #5 and #6 Ring rated super bantams and at the time of beating DPDL and Molitor they were both ranked higher.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Well first off Vazquez and Marquez have spent the last two years fighting only each other and rumors point to the next match being against each other as well, so it's hard to hold that against anyone else at 122. Second Lopez is just coming up in the ranks Caballero called out all three of the guys you listed. Lopez's big win was an impressed KO over DPDL, but Caballero was the first man to beat DPDL. Lopez is already in talks with Penalosa too. Caballero is fighting the best fighters that are available to him.

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Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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I personally would have Dawson ahead in my own p4p rankings, but like I said earlier, I think the outrage is blown out of proportion. I don't think having Caballero is that crazy to have there, in fact I don't have a problem with it, that is the fundamental point I've been trying to make this whole time. Dawson really isn't helping his case by rematching Tarver either, that would be like Calzaghe giving an immediate rematch to Lacy. Cab DOES have wins over the current #5 and #6 Ring rated super bantams and at the time of beating DPDL and Molitor they were both ranked higher.

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Yeah I agree really not knocking his acomplishments. I do feel it's a bit premature as when you look at the rest of the list you are talking about either multiple weight champs or guys who have beaten the man in their division. Cab's acomplishments pale when you consider the rest on that list, he hasn't fought the top guys in his weight class yet and is no higher than 3 in his own weight class.

Pavlik lost to a genuine p4p legend last time out but he's still the man to beat and the Ring champ at middleweight and should be above Cabbelero imo who has so far just been picking up alphabet titles. And Paul Williams has proven himself with world title wins in two weight classes now. Dawson is unbeaten and beaten Ring champs not alphabet titlists.

I'd probably have Cab about 15 or so on my list.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I agree completely and know he'd fght those other guys in a heartbeat. I'm just saying I don't personally think wins over Molitor and De Leon equate to Tarver and Adamek imo.

Tarver has been to the very top of this sport, a Ring champ and many times world champ with wins over the best lightheavies in the world, Adamek is a two weight world champ and the current ring champ at cruiser.

Compare with De Leon who wasn't even a world champ when Cab fought him and Molitor who has fought nobody whatsoever they just don't equate to being Ring champs or former Ring champs.

I personally would have Dawson above Cab along with Paul Williams, maybe still Kelly Pavlik.

Cab just strikes me as a Christian Mijares type placement, not really done enough to justify a place in the top 10 as he's never unified a division or been number 1 in that division.

Juan Diaz before the campbell loss had done more at lightweight and wasn't on the p4p rankings that's all I'm saying.

Juan Guzman as well possibly deserves ranking higher, a bona fida two weight world champ, unbeaten with big wins over Soto and Barrios although weight shame obviously went against him. Even David Haye did a better job of unifying the cruiserweight division knocking out both the number 1 and 2 opponents, all I'm saying Cab hasn't done that, sure he hasn't had the opportunity to yet but still let's wait until we see what he does in those fights before we place him amongst the world's elite.

I can't think of any other fighter on the rankings list who got there by beating the kind of opposition Cab has, all the rest have beaten the men and been at the top of their divisions to earn their spots, Cab is number 3 in his weight class.

Still he's a tough and awkward fighter though and considering the damage both Rafa and Israel have inflicted upon each other in recent years he could be primed to take over.

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I personally would have Dawson ahead in my own p4p rankings, but like I said earlier, I think the outrage is blown out of proportion. I don't think having Caballero is that crazy to have there, in fact I don't have a problem with it, that is the fundamental point I've been trying to make this whole time. Dawson really isn't helping his case by rematching Tarver either, that would be like Calzaghe giving an immediate rematch to Lacy. Cab DOES have wins over the current #5 and #6 Ring rated super bantams and at the time of beating DPDL and Molitor they were both ranked higher.

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Yeah I agree really not knocking his acomplishments. I do feel it's a bit premature as when you look at the rest of the list you are talking about either multiple weight champs or guys who have beaten the man in their division. Cab's acomplishments pale when you consider the rest on that list, he hasn't fought the top guys in his weight class yet and is no higher than 3 in his own weight class.

Pavlik lost to a genuine p4p legend last time out but he's still the man to beat and the Ring champ at middleweight and should be above Cabbelero imo who has so far just been picking up alphabet titles. And Paul Williams has proven himself with world title wins in two weight classes now. Dawson is unbeaten and beaten Ring champs not alphabet titlists.

I'd probably have Cab about 15 or so on my list.

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Ultimately, p4p lists are meaningless in the scheme of boxing they are there for bragging rights and for marketing purposes. Noone fights for a p4p belt (except in the Fight Night video game series).

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I would favor him over Lopez. I think his style is all wrong for him.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I favor Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero over JuanMa... I even favor Caballero against Izzy or Rafa... I favor Caballero against anyone in the 122 division... ;)
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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I favor Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero over JuanMa... I even favor Caballero against Izzy or Rafa... I favor Caballero against anyone in the 122 division... ;)
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Over Vazquez maybe. But not Marquez.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He'll get cracked if he ever gets in the ring with Juanma!

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I favor Celestino "THE TOWERING INFERNO" Caballero over JuanMa... I even favor Caballero against Izzy or Rafa... I favor Caballero against anyone in the 122 division... ;)
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Over Vazquez maybe. But not Marquez.

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VD, I think the 3 brutal fights of Izzy vs. Rafa helped Caballero much... They softened each other that's why I picked Caba against any of the two... ;)
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