simple question! Whats your view?
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simple question! Whats your view?
he was way overhyped he probaly listen to his people's and felt indestructable till he got defeated he has never been the same savage jeff lacy so i say calzaghe out of the choices
but imo he was just overhyped and he also had injuries
I went Calzaghe ruined him. He looked awesome against Reid (who was shite yes I know) but got trounced off Calzaghe and nearly even got beaten off Manfredo!
Neither ....... I think Lacy was a powerful, intimidating go-ahead fighter who put people under pressure and had good finishing power. With the benefit of hindsight, he couldn't fight effectively going backwards (he liked to get into a rhythmn and keep that same rhythmn going). He was made to be countered, and because he didn't throw good combinations, a fighter who moved him around, had good handspeed, and could get off first was always going to push him hard.
We seem very quick to put boxers into huge categories .... 'all time great', 'fraud' etc etc.
Styles make fights ...... the whole point of boxing is it's intangibles ...... Ali losing to Frazier, Foreman wroecking Frazier, Ali kayoing Foreman. There are no logical equations in boxing !!
Joe broke him.
A little of both, even when Lacy was coming up and fighting second class fighters, if Jeff was faced with someone with fast hands that threw in combination he froze up and would take shots.....It was a matter of time when he faced someone with fast hands, that had some pop, and threw in combination at a world class level like Joe or even a Taylor.....
He was a fake, I loved his amateur background, his athletic ability, but he winged shots, he didn't use his speed, and he could get bullied around even before Calzaghe ever showed up. He had way too many flaws to deal with the top level of the sport.
Man, I hope Berto isn't him all over again.
He was over-rated and 1 dimensional.Calzaghe did ruin his confidence after the beating he gave him,and with the injury he got he was never going to be the same Lacy that looked indestructable.
Plus his promoter did a good job at getting him fighters at the right time in there careers.
Hellava post. I agree with it all. Lacy was a bit of both. He wasn't an all out fraud but he wasn't what he was made out to be. The guy just can not box. Like Taeth said, Lacy wings his shots and he takes his share of shots in the process. It was a matter of time before the real book on him blew open. And Calzaghe didn't ruin him exactly but he may as well have because what Lacy did have was oozing confidence and Calzaghe broke that. Lacy bought into his own hype and found out in a crash that he has no plan B, can not box, and he takes a lot of shots so he must win by stoppage otherwise he better pack a lunch. I remember when Lacy was calling out B-Hop before Hopkins-Taylor 1 and I knew that would be disastrous on his career because he was really the only one who didn't know he couldn't box a lick and he would have hell to pay with a tactical boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebif
He was a over rated and Joe put on a master class, if he was even A grade you would of thought he would of won a couple of rounds.
If he was an A grade fighter he would of done more than just plod forward throwing the same punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Duke
This is an agenda thread (I don't mean the original poster meant it that way, I don't know), Calzaghe fans are gonna for the most part say he ruined him, anti-Calzaghe people are going to say the opposite.
Its probably somewhere in between like some have said. Lacy had some glaring flaws that got lost a bit because he looked like a killer. If that had been him against Kessler then Mikkel would have probably done a number on him (probably not as bad as he wouldn't have been as busy as Joe), good technical boxers with fast hands, fast feet, good footwork, etc. were always going to give him problems.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
It's somewhat pointless to speculate this imo. Of course the beating Joe laid on him affected his confidence and will always give his opponents more of their own having seen how badly his flaws could be exposed. Having said that he wasn't ruined before he fought Calzaghe(not that he was after neccesarily), and yet he got as one sided a beating as a fighter can take, because he had no ability to deal with Calzaghes pedigree or athletecism, he never did. It's not as if Calzaghe was his kryptonite, he just had the perfect style and attributes to do an unruly number on Jeff. I know that seems contradictory, I just mean it's not as if Joe NEEDED to perform that well or do half of the things he did that night to hand Lacy his ass. Of course it's unlikely anyone else would have given him a beating of the same magnitude, but that's just down to styles and of course Calzaghe being far and away the best supper middle out there at the time. I doubt anyone really feels that with hindsight had he not lost to Calzaghe he would have cleaned out the division or beaten a Kessler or Hopkins, even Taylor at any point.
Well,he didn't exactly turn out to be the next "Coming of Evander Holyfield" as the network fanboys called him a couple of times......Now that was just drinking the kool-aid .....and playing the fans for fools.
Lacy was a pretty self explanatory sort,no mysteries really.Good physicality,good appeal,good power but not devastating,over reliance on Left hook,TV friendly style,Bit of a chip on his shoulder,Willing to give and take with solid beard.And Excellent promotion.
Calzaghe did not ruin what was an already flawed fighter.He simply outclassed him at every turn.Lacy if anything had his aura of invulnerability shattered mentally.I think he was as far as he was going to get when it came to skill set.Still he fought tough and stuck with what brought him in some scrappy fights afterwords,recently the Taylor fight and Mendoza give and take brawl.
Overrated;D
I say both. Anybody that paid attention knew Lacy was overrated. Severely overrated. But Calzaghe did ruin him. He turned Lacy from a C fighter into a D fighter
I voted Joe ruined him. I somewhat agree with Violent.... except I would say a A fighter to a B fighter. He has what it takes to be a top guy, but he was never gonna be an all time great. Good power, chin, work rate. Plenty of flaws.
Overall I think most fans overate every fighter. Continually talking about this mythical skill level that someone else is lacking. Lacy was good in his prime, and he got his prime ended by Joe.
Good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I admit back in the day I also thought he may have been a great but at the same time when you see someone with that sort of power comming off just the basics you automatically think he has to get better as he goes along, but he didnt.
I thought" if that guy had more head movment. " If he works on stretching his body and legs and gets more mobile and flexable and then works off more angles hes going to be able to rule with power punches. Turns out he wasn't trained that way.
You can say the same for Bojardo at that same time; ,natuarlly sat on punches at the right time .tight defence from straight out in front and turned on a dime so that others stayed straight out in front.
Same thing if he got fitter more flexable and kept what he had but created more angles he could of been better by far.
Turns out he was a lazy boy and thought he was a natural and it was all going to be just a given: so he hardly got trained any further or regimented in any way let alone a certain way to add to his natural skill. Shame, such a waste.
But those people who study it close cant force these guys to training harder or force them to be trained correctly to enhance their natural abilities.
Most gyms train fighters in exactly the same way until they shine out then they start to redevelop some things. It should be more personal from the start and more shaping and steering around each fighters natural abilites.
Thats why these guys who get trained by their fathers get whats required exactly when its required.
Think about how many of the top untouchable champions that are trained and taught all the way through by their own dad!, they are most of the ones who really shine out. I recon Tyson got adopted for that reason too.
Its also very easy to be correct in hind sight or at the time against a boxing system that relies on hype to up the excitment to bring in new faces and dollars prior to a fighter actually proving themselves beyond doubt.
What happened with Joe and the circumstances surrounding it, caused Lacy to lose Belief in Himself But more importantly in His Team. They let Him down. I bet He feels He is now on His own when He gets in the Ring. His clear Head concept isnt clear anymore. :confused:
Lacy was a good strong pressure fighter.
Calzaghe was simply in a different class and exposed him.
The beating Joe gave him and the shoulder injury really has fucked his career up.
He was never an A fighter man your being way to generous.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
True , but like Scrap just said though ,it starts and ends in their mind first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
Its a hard road back from there if your core belief has gone out with it,then more physical trouble usually follows.
Great Fighters, dont get hit much. When they do they stop being great :rolleyes:
One point, The Game is called the Art of Self Defence, which means it is better to give than recieve. Ahmen to That.
He sure as hell wasn't fake, and I don't think Calzaghe ruined him, although he did give him a bad beating. Lacy, not unlike Vernon Forrest, never seemed to fully recovery from their torn-rotator cuff injuries. All bodies are different, though, and it can't be left unsaid that this is the most taxing of sports.
I think if anything would apply in this case, it was just that Lacy was a bit over-rated and never thoroughly tested until he faced Calzaghe. And we all know what happened in that 'fight'.:rolleyes:
Calzaghe ruined him. But he weren't great to begin with.
Calzaghe exposed Lacy the way Hopkins did to Pavlik. Lacy vs Pavlik could be an interesting match up in the future.
Lacy was inexperienced and basically untested and Joe had been around for a while and he had experience and experience takes apart youth especially when you don't listen to your trainers.
Yeah, please don't forget to pass the crack pipe to your right, buddy.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
He was flawed and inexperienced,and not ready for Joe,to a degree,Joe did ruin him because now the kid doesnt have an ounce of confidence,sort of like how Taylor hasnt looked right ever since Hopkins
Okay whatever that means.I will pass it around to you when I am done. Lacy was supposed to be the next big thing like Pavlik and should have lost to Calzaghe just like Hopkins was supposed to lose to Pavlik. And Calzaghe was the one with injuries prior to the Lacy fight not the other way around. Now since that fight Lacy has been plagued with shoulder injuries. Wanna go for round 2 or continue passing the crack pipe to the right?Quote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowYeah, please don't forget to pass the crack pipe to your right, buddy.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Actually Lacy tore his rotator-cuff after the Calzaghe fight. Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that Calzaghe was one of the greatest super-middleweights of all time. A walk in to any hall of fame. The same can be said about Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09Okay whatever that means.I will pass it around to you when I am done. Lacy was supposed to be the next big thing like Pavlik and should have lost to Calzaghe just like Hopkins was supposed to lose to Pavlik. And Calzaghe was the one with injuries prior to the Lacy fight not the other way around. Now since that fight Lacy has been plagued with shoulder injuries. Wanna go for round 2 or continue passing the crack pipe to the right?Quote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowYeah, please don't forget to pass the crack pipe to your right, buddy.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
It took me some time to figure out how good Calzaghe was because he fought out of Wales. I always knew how good Hopkins was and I can also make a strong argument that Hopkins got screwed out of the decision against Calzaghe.
In other words, there is ABSOLUTELY no shame in losing to the likes of fighters like Calzaghe or Hopkins. Both were and are athletic phenoms gifted with a rare combination of superb, athletic genetic make-up and the persistant determination to harness and refine their natural gifts in a spectacular fashion.
Perhaps the crack pipe joke was a bit over the top. I just think that you should take into consideration how great Calzaghe and Hopkins are.;)
I'd like to see that fight. Then again I like Kelly and would expect him to be the first to KO Jeff!Quote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowYeah, please don't forget to pass the crack pipe to your right, buddy.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Lacy had his flaws prior to Calzaghe, but having said that Calzaghe was on pure fire in that fight. Very few fighters could have kept up with him. That was a beating, but the injury after Calzaghe certainly contributed to Lacy's decline too.
Lacy was no fake, but he wasn't as good as the US media portrayed him to be. And though Calzaghe beat him up, there were added factors that have left him as he is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelHe was never an A fighter man your being way to generous.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Well he was an Olympic medalist, a world champ, and he's only lost to Joe C and Jermaine Taylor, both of whom beat Bernard Hopkins.
He was an A fighter fighting in the elite. He was just bottom rung of the A level.
This is what I mean by overrating boxers "skill". Please define A-D levels for me, cause I thought the guys on FNF's are usually C level. Showbox is B level and HBO and Showtime ppv's are A level. The D level's I can usually go see at a local hotel or gymnasium. If Lacy wasn't in the A level, i'm lost.
I totally take into consideration the greatness of Hopkins and Calzaghe. I believe this thread was titled was Lacy fake or did Calzaghe ruin him. And yes I know that Lacy tore his rotator cuff after the fight hence why I said it was Calzaghe with the injuries not Lacy up until then. Both of them have ruined careers Hopkins to Pavlik and Calzaghe to Lacy thats why I said Lacy and Pavlik would be an interesting showdown for shits and giggles.Quote:
Originally Posted by The ShadowActually Lacy tore his rotator-cuff after the Calzaghe fight. Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that Calzaghe was one of the greatest super-middleweights of all time. A walk in to any hall of fame. The same can be said about Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09Okay whatever that means.I will pass it around to you when I am done. Lacy was supposed to be the next big thing like Pavlik and should have lost to Calzaghe just like Hopkins was supposed to lose to Pavlik. And Calzaghe was the one with injuries prior to the Lacy fight not the other way around. Now since that fight Lacy has been plagued with shoulder injuries. Wanna go for round 2 or continue passing the crack pipe to the right?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
It took me some time to figure out how good Calzaghe was because he fought out of Wales. I always knew how good Hopkins was and I can also make a strong argument that Hopkins got screwed out of the decision against Calzaghe.
In other words, there is ABSOLUTELY no shame in losing to the likes of fighters like Calzaghe or Hopkins. Both were and are athletic phenoms gifted with a rare combination of superb, athletic genetic make-up and the persistant determination to harness and refine their natural gifts in a spectacular fashion.
Perhaps the crack pipe joke was a bit over the top. I just think that you should take into consideration how great Calzaghe and Hopkins are.;)
:beatdeadhorse:
That's along my way of thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I'm more in between than the two choices here... He was supposed to destroy Joe, we all know what happened so he obviously wasn't as good as everybody was saying... but I think had he not taken such a beating from Joe and had he not injured his shoulder then he would probably be a much better fighter than he is today.
He wasn't a fake and Joe did not ruin him...Then again it was both (If that makes sense)...I knew Jeff down in Florida as an amateur when a guy named Ron Woods used to work with him (Long Before the Olympic days).....Jeff had all the tools but for some reason was kept a fighter who had to rely on power...Not that is what he wanted but that is what his trainers seemed to have him doing...They felt that Jeff had enough power to not focus on the important things...
Problem is that trend was kept up through the pro's...
Lacy had the ability to execute all the tools but no one seemed to want to make those tools available to him....
By the time he reached Calzaghe it was almost too late....The beating he took added with the fact he was kept a one dimensional fighter for so long the combination of that with the hurt confidence took his want to suceed out of the game...Jeff has no desire to start back at square one (Which is what he would have to do to rebuild himself)...And like many young hard hitting fighters the first big loss hurt his psyche by letting him know he is not invincible like everyone was feeding him to be....
The blame is to be put mostly on his handlers....
I liken him to a poor mans Fernando Vargas....Power, ability but those around him handled him wrong...Fernando was brought along to fast and it hurt him in the end...Same as Jeff Lacy
Jeff Lacy has a Champion's heart and certainly more heart than anyone on this forum.
He didn't live up to all the hype but he damn sure has tried.
He has not been the same since tearing his rotator cuff or however you spell it.