Elite fighters

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03-01-2009, 10:14 PM
Julius Rain

Elite fighters

Gotta love JMM for his ko win over Juan Diaz, I said it all along JMM was going to put that fat boy on his back. Ok credit to Juan Diaz he had me nervous a few moments but I knew JMM would seperate himself sooner or later from the college boy.

Right now I think JMM and PAC are just at another level above the rest of the boxing world. People doubt them all the time because they are smaller fighters and they climb division after division to continue their legacy. JMM whooped Diaz at his prefer fight, JMM fought Diaz fight and still showed him his not going to go the distance against a true elite. I love the win because i wanted college boy to get ko'ed but a win over juan diaz is not gonna suddenly jump JMM over pac at the p4p list.

I think JMM can rule the 135 division for a very long time and pac will take over 140 after he desmantle ricky hatton. A final showdown between the two greatest elite fighter of our generation should happen late this year or early next year.

The question is however, who is likely to make it by late this year or early next year. Pac continues his ambitious fighting schedule, after ricky he maybe fighting at 147 again against the likes of cotto or mosley. JMM IMO can remain the man at 135 but can he move up to 140 or 147? I dont think pac can move back down to 135 again, it would not be safe for his body to move up and down 2 divisions.

IMO in order for at pac jmm triology to happen, JMM needs to continously have wins like last nights.
03-01-2009, 10:20 PM
CFH

Re: Elite fighters

To answer one of your questions, JMM said last night that he planned to move to 140 in order to pursue Pac, Hatton, or Mayweather.
03-01-2009, 10:48 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Elite fighters

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.
03-01-2009, 10:59 PM
skel1983

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

You make some great points, but on the over hand JMM doesnt bring the financial clout PAC Hatton and other similar £££ making fighters do, which is one of the reasons JMM has done it the hard way over and over because he hasnt really got the luxury of hand picking opponents but he is an amazing fighter who is very impressive.
03-01-2009, 11:09 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by skel1983

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

You make some great points, but on the over hand JMM doesnt bring the financial clout PAC Hatton and other similar £££ making fighters do, which is one of the reasons JMM has done it the hard way over and over because he hasnt really got the luxury of hand picking opponents but he is an amazing fighter who is very impressive.

Him doing it the hard way is why he's pound for pound number 1. While it's true Marquez don't get the checks the other 2 get, he can still pick up a couple of millions and defending against lesser opposition. But that ain't him. He wants the biggest challenges.
03-02-2009, 01:53 PM
luvfightgame

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?
03-02-2009, 06:33 PM
James_Teja

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?

Damn right he did. Plus he beat the shit out of his promoter too. ;D
03-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.
03-02-2009, 07:00 PM
James_Teja

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

Marquez and GB wanted a 3rd fight right away coz they knew they lost fairly. Plus Pac had problem making 130. JMM's camp only decided to move up to LW after Pac's win against D.Diaz.

They were 10-6 and 10-8 rounds. And that would indicate that Pac was landing harder and more effective punches.
03-02-2009, 07:13 PM
luvfightgame

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

The difference between recent opponents pretty much tells the difference between the fighters. Lets take a unbiased look.

Marquez came to the Lightweight division looking to face it's undisputed champion and top fighter. He found him in Joel Casamayor. It was a struggle but Marquez won and became the first man ever to stop the great Casamayor. If Nate Campbell would of made weight, i have no doubt Marquez would faced the winner of Campbell-Joan Guzman. Marquez could of sat on the sidelines or faced some stiff to just stay busy. But Marquez ain't like that. So he takes on the next available option. Juan Diaz. In Diaz's hometown. Any chance Marquez loses his title due to home judging goes out the window when Marquez becomes the first man ever to stop Diaz.

After getting his 2nd gift and than avoiding a 3rd fight with Marquez, Pacquiao moves to Lightweight. All the top fighters are available and waiting. Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz and Joan Guzman. So are some of the 2nd tier fighters. Julio Diaz and Michael Katsidis. Pacquiao decides to face 3rd tier David Diaz. A fighter who won a vacant title from a non-champion. And had been stopped before by an average puncher. Predictaly Pac stops him. After being called out by Casamayor, Campbell, Marquez, Diaz and Edwin Valero. Pac decides to fight Oscar De La Hoya. A fight that looked to be dangerous on paper. But keep in mind Pac only took the fight cuz his trainer Freddie Roach had first hand knowledge on information nobody else knew. That Oscar was shot. So what first looked like a dangerous fight in reality was a cake walk. Cake walk indeed. Pac easily beats a De La Hoya who looked liked he would of easily lost to Ivan Calderon as well.

When you actually take the time and actually look at the facts the difference in fighters is obvious. One seeks the toughest opposition. The other would perfer to hand pick his opponents. And that's why Marquez is without a doubt pound for pound number 1.

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.
03-02-2009, 07:26 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

:lolhaha: Are you fukking kidding me? That's got to be one the stupidest things I ever read. Now Diaz was a set up fight for De La Hoya? Diaz was an easy mark with a title. That's why Pac fought him. So he can say he was champion in another division. At no point was Diaz ever a set up fight for De La Hoya.
03-02-2009, 08:33 PM
luvfightgame

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

:lolhaha: Are you fukking kidding me? That's got to be one the stupidest things I ever read. Now Diaz was a set up fight for De La Hoya? Diaz was an easy mark with a title. That's why Pac fought him. So he can say he was champion in another division. At no point was Diaz ever a set up fight for De La Hoya.

Diaz was a set up fight for ODH because of the title. It boosted Pac's resume making him a multi-weight title holder.

It may be funny but that's how it worked out. Not that it's legit. That's the politics of boxing. You should know by now. You said it yourself, so Pac can be a champion in another division. It worked out to be a stepping stone to ODH. Combine the "title" with the huge fan support for that fight.

Hell, part of the argument as to why Pac could fight at 147 was that he weighed 142 on fight night against Diaz. If the Diaz fight didn't happen, Merchant wouldn't have made his comment about Pac fighting ODH and the fight wouldn't have happened. So yeah, it was the set up.
03-03-2009, 06:22 PM
Violent Demise

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

:lolhaha: Are you fukking kidding me? That's got to be one the stupidest things I ever read. Now Diaz was a set up fight for De La Hoya? Diaz was an easy mark with a title. That's why Pac fought him. So he can say he was champion in another division. At no point was Diaz ever a set up fight for De La Hoya.

Diaz was a set up fight for ODH because of the title. It boosted Pac's resume making him a multi-weight title holder.

It may be funny but that's how it worked out. Not that it's legit. That's the politics of boxing. You should know by now. You said it yourself, so Pac can be a champion in another division. It worked out to be a stepping stone to ODH. Combine the "title" with the huge fan support for that fight.

Hell, part of the argument as to why Pac could fight at 147 was that he weighed 142 on fight night against Diaz. If the Diaz fight didn't happen, Merchant wouldn't have made his comment about Pac fighting ODH and the fight wouldn't have happened. So yeah, it was the set up.

I like many true Boxing fans, I don't consider Pac a former Lightweight champion. Only Pac groupies do. Diaz was the definition of a paper champion. If your not a Pac groupie like you claim not to be than you should have no problem admitting the truth. Pac turned down 6 million for a 3rd fight with Marquez to take less money and move up and face a paper champion in David Diaz. Avoiding the real challenges in Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell and Juan Diaz. There was no Oscar talk prior to the Diaz fight. That came afterwards.
03-03-2009, 08:18 PM
Phil

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Those are good points but not complete. What's left out of the equation is promoters. JMM hasn't had a good promoter until he signed with GBP. He doesn't make as much, didn't get big fights lined up, etc. In fact he got $35k for Chris John. Some of his choices were the only available, not his first choice.

Pac however has had a top promoter and been the top priority for them. His fight with ODH was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biggest payday, biggest recognition, biggest reward he could get. JMM would have taken Pac's road if he could have.

And no disrespect to JMM cause he's great, but Pac put him on his ass 4-0. So his case for winning the fights have at least 4 big holes in it.

If I were Pac I would say.... do we just keep fighting till you finally win?

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

First fight was a draw actually, but imo Marquez won both...
03-03-2009, 11:45 PM
luvfightgame

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:lolhaha: Are you fukking kidding me? That's got to be one the stupidest things I ever read. Now Diaz was a set up fight for De La Hoya? Diaz was an easy mark with a title. That's why Pac fought him. So he can say he was champion in another division. At no point was Diaz ever a set up fight for De La Hoya.

Diaz was a set up fight for ODH because of the title. It boosted Pac's resume making him a multi-weight title holder.

It may be funny but that's how it worked out. Not that it's legit. That's the politics of boxing. You should know by now. You said it yourself, so Pac can be a champion in another division. It worked out to be a stepping stone to ODH. Combine the "title" with the huge fan support for that fight.

Hell, part of the argument as to why Pac could fight at 147 was that he weighed 142 on fight night against Diaz. If the Diaz fight didn't happen, Merchant wouldn't have made his comment about Pac fighting ODH and the fight wouldn't have happened. So yeah, it was the set up.

I like many true Boxing fans, I don't consider Pac a former Lightweight champion. Only Pac groupies do. Diaz was the definition of a paper champion. If your not a Pac groupie like you claim not to be than you should have no problem admitting the truth. Pac turned down 6 million for a 3rd fight with Marquez to take less money and move up and face a paper champion in David Diaz. Avoiding the real challenges in Joel Casamayor, Nate Campbell and Juan Diaz. There was no Oscar talk prior to the Diaz fight. That came afterwards.

I guess i'm not a true boxing fan because I think virtually all the titles are bullshit. Do I agree that Diaz was the easiest choice, yes. Do I think he intentionally avoided anyone else you named? Hell no. Diaz was the guy with the lowest money requirement and the most likely to sign right away. I don't think there was any intentional avoiding. Just took the easier fights, both in negotiations and in the ring.

I am an adult and nobody's groupie. Been around here as long as you and you'll never find a nut huggin post from me for anybody, no pictures, no sigs, nothing. I look at it from a business and realistic outlook, not through fan worship. I grew out of that shit at about 13.

But I don't buy Pac is dodging any of those guys. Just taking best rewarding fights. Aside from that he doesn't make his own fights. Arum does. There's a reason Diaz was ringside at JMM fight or was it Barrera? Either way I don't buy ducking.
03-03-2009, 11:49 PM
luvfightgame

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

First fight was a draw actually, but imo Marquez won both...

I was saying ROUNDS and knockdowns. Not both fights. But that's fine. Fights were close enough to go either way. Personally, I don't feel you won a fight if you get kd'd 4 times and not once the other guy. Just doesn't work for me when the other rounds were close. JMM certainly gave the best and closest fights with Pac, and if you subtract the kd's, he won. BUT, he did get put on his ass 4 times. So Pac got the win. That's the breaks.....
03-03-2009, 11:52 PM
fan johnny

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Marquez and Golden Boy offered Pacquiao 6 million for a 3rd fight. What did Pac do? He said no. He took less money to move up and fight one of the weakest title holders in recent history David Diaz. But if you talk to a Pac groupie than you'll think David Diaz was Roberto Duran.

I wasn't aware that knock downs are what win fights. I always thought it was rounds won. All those knock downs did for Pac was win him 2 rounds. That's it.

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

First fight was a draw actually, but imo Marquez won both...

(3) Three knock downs in one round is a 10-6 round for you idiots that keep saying "IMO JMM won that fight" and don't know how to score. "JMM LOST" that's not an opinion it's FACT. and someone once posted "Get over it!"
03-04-2009, 12:46 AM
rjj tszyu

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFH

To answer one of your questions, JMM said last night that he planned to move to 140 in order to pursue Pac, Hatton, or Mayweather.

If that is really his plan and he gets PBF, I think he will get beaten badly. I like JMM but not only would he be punching above his weight, but his speed, skill and power too. Floyd would demolish all 3 of the above.

It's also not that long since a fading Barrera had Marquez on the floor and good old Jay Nady saved the day with one of his howlers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gi55...eature=related
03-04-2009, 12:50 AM
Violent Demise

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by fan johnny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

First fight was a draw actually, but imo Marquez won both...

(3) Three knock downs in one round is a 10-6 round for you idiots that keep saying "IMO JMM won that fight" and don't know how to score. "JMM LOST" that's not an opinion it's FACT. and someone once posted "Get over it!"

Seems like you don't know how to score. One big round doesn't win a fight. Pac gets his 10-6 round. And another 10-9 round for the second. After that Marquez dominates the fight and takes the rounds 10-9. Add them up and it's really not close. First fight for anybody that has any idea how to score is Marquez 115. Pacqiuao 110.
03-04-2009, 06:45 AM
Rommel De Sánchez

Re: Elite fighters

Juan Manuel Márquez is a top mexican fighter, actually i think and hope most and better fights in the future.
03-04-2009, 09:32 AM
Phil

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by fan johnny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfightgame

He didn't say no. He said not now. He moved up and fought Diaz which lined up his fight with ODH.

Either way, rounds or knockdowns. According to the records Pac won both. It's some people's opinions that JMM won more rounds, but not according to the judges.

I'm not a Pac groupie, I like both fighters. I find it real hard to give a decision to someone who's been kd in the fight. It's not like every other round was one sided for JMM and he got a flash kd. Both fights were very hard fought and most rounds close. JMM won some rounds decidedly, but never enough to put Pac down. Also he hurt Pac a couple of times, but still never enough to put him down.

We both know the flip side of that. Pac hurt him enough to drop him. That's what wins you close fights, cause he won more than just the 2 rounds he kd'd JMM.

First fight was a draw actually, but imo Marquez won both...

(3) Three knock downs in one round is a 10-6 round for you idiots that keep saying "IMO JMM won that fight" and don't know how to score. "JMM LOST" that's not an opinion it's FACT. and someone once posted "Get over it!"

JMM didn't lose after been kd 3 times, it was still a draw officially :rolleyes: so good FACT idiot ;)
03-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Scott22

Re: Elite fighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

Originally Posted by fan johnny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

First fight was a draw actually, but imo Marquez won both...

(3) Three knock downs in one round is a 10-6 round for you idiots that keep saying "IMO JMM won that fight" and don't know how to score. "JMM LOST" that's not an opinion it's FACT. and someone once posted "Get over it!"

Seems like you don't know how to score. One big round doesn't win a fight. Pac gets his 10-6 round. And another 10-9 round for the second. After that Marquez dominates the fight and takes the rounds 10-9. Add them up and it's really not close. First fight for anybody that has any idea how to score is Marquez 115. Pacqiuao 110.

i think I scored 114-112 marquez. something like that

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