Now that De La Hoya has retired, what should his record have actually been??

Now that De La Hoya has retired, I am looking at all his close, controversial fights and seeing where he was robbed and where he got a gift!

Whitaker - I had De La Hoya winning by one point by virture of winning the last round

Quartey - I thought Quartey won this, I can remember my scorecard, but I had Quartey up by 1 or 2 points

Trinidad - I had Oscar winning this one

Mosely II - I thought De La Hoya won this quite clearly and was robbed!

Sturm - Oscar got a lucky decision

PBF - I had PBF winning this by a couple of rounds


Any thoughts?

Pretty much agree with all of your post.

The only one I don't agree with is Mosley II - I copped a lot of shit for it on here at the time but I honestly believe that one could have went either way. Mosley did a lot of heavy body work late in the fight. Of course he was on the roids at the time, so maybe Oscar should have won it...???

Sturm definitely beat him.

Quartey fight was very close, Oscars big last round saved him. I think I had Quartey just.

Oscar definitely beat Trinidad.

Thought the PBF was very close, PBFjust.

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Originally Posted by Greig

Pretty much agree with all of your post.

The only one I don't agree with is Mosley II - I copped a lot of shit for it on here at the time but I honestly believe that one could have went either way. Mosley did a lot of heavy body work late in the fight. Of course he was on the roids at the time, so maybe Oscar should have won it...???

Sturm definitely beat him.

Quartey fight was very close, Oscars big last round saved him. I think I had Quartey just.

Oscar definitely beat Trinidad.

Thought the PBF was very close, PBFjust.

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Mosely II was a strange one, because all 3 jusges had it the same, but people ringside and the boxing press all though DLH was robbed. I had it 115-113 to DLH. Mosely wasn't the same fighter as he was in the first fight, which I thought he won by 4 rounds.

Oscar deffo beat Tito...in fact from my perspective he owned him...no idea how that decision went to Tito.

I had DLH a point up for PBF. but hardly anything happened in this fight until the last few rounds wich Mayweather won but for the rounds where hardly anything was done i could only give it to oscar for landing a few unclean body shots.

Looking at his record you have to say that a record of 39-6 may does not look as phenomenal as DLH's career was !

Hell, in the future younger fans may look at this and think what was so good about this guy - he lost 15% of his fights (15.3846% if he is the rain man ;))

Fans in the know however know full well that all his points defeats could have easily gone the other way - the Sturm win was the only one you could class as a gift I feel.

So at the end of the day that leaves stoppage defeats to two future legends (they are already) Hopkins , a naturally bigger guy, and then Manny, younger and p4p king, who as well as being brilliant on the night fought him at the end of his career when the tank was empty.


39-6 doesn't do him justice does it.....:-\

43-2 would have looked much better

I had Whitaker winning 7-5. However, that was a sloppy fight and there were a ton of close rounds, so I have no problem with someone scoring the fight for Oscar. The problem I had with that decision was that the scorecards were so lopsided, that you got the impression the judges were giving Oscar the benefit of the doubt in every close round.

I thought Quartey clearly won 7 rounds against Oscar and deserved the victory.

I had the Trinidad fight a draw. I thought Oscar was up 6-2 and on his way to an easy decision, and then he completely gave away the last 4 rounds. It bugs me a little when people defend Oscar and say he was robbed, because it's his own fault for running and giving away the last rounds of the fight.

I had Mosley II a draw as well.

I had Floyd winning 8-4.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Now that De La Hoya has retired, I am looking at all his close, controversial fights and seeing where he was robbed and where he got a gift!

Whitaker - I had De La Hoya winning by one point by virture of winning the last round

Quartey - I thought Quartey won this, I can remember my scorecard, but I had Quartey up by 1 or 2 points

Trinidad - I had Oscar winning this one

Mosely II - I thought De La Hoya won this quite clearly and was robbed!

Sturm - Oscar got a lucky decision

PBF - I had PBF winning this by a couple of rounds


Any thoughts?

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I think your spot on with all of that.

Sturm and Floyd won in my eyes and the Quartey fight too close bot i think Oscar snatched it with that amazing 12th round onslaught.

To be honest i don't really care about a fighters stats too much and it's the way they entertain me that i remember most and Oscar was brilliant at entertaining 9 times out of 10 - and put everything into his fights:cool:

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Hell, in the future younger fans may look at this and think what was so good about this guy - he lost 15% of his fights (15.3846% if he is the rain man ;))

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I think you are doing Dela Hoya an injustice. He only lost 13.3333333333% of his fights.

6/45 x 100. =13.33333

LOL

ooops ! ta

guess what i forgot to do :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by smashup

To be honest i don't really care about a fighters stats too much and it's the way they entertain me that i remember most and Oscar was brilliant at entertaining 9 times out of 10 - and put everything into his fights:cool:

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Yeh I agree. The thing I liked about DLH is that he never ducked anybody. He fought everybody there was to fight, Quartey, Vargas and Trinidad would all have been avoided by many and stepping up to fight Hopkins was stupid very brave

Floyd by a couple of rounds... bleh He won by way more htan that.

He beat Trinidad, i had it 117-110 an amazing decision considering it was one of DLH's best performances, yes he lost the last 3 rounds but he wasn't going to knock Trinidad out so why take the risk, he didn't count on incompetent judges.

He also beat Mosley in the second fight, amazingly judges give this to Mosley as a UD when again DLH fought a great fight and i think won a hard fought decision. I had that one 115-113 for DLH .The first fight was a MD for Mosley, a fight Mosley clearly won...go figure?
He beat Whitaker and Quartey in close decisions that went his way but he deserved the wins.
He was lucky to get the Sturm win
He lost the others to PBF, both Hopkins and Pacman stopped him.
My only beef with Oscar is he didn't fight Tszyu in 1996 or early 97, choosing instead to move up to 147lb to fight Whitaker in April of that year.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He beat Trinidad, i had it 117-110 an amazing decision considering it was one of DLH's best performances, yes he lost the last 3 rounds but he wasn't going to knock Trinidad out so why take the risk, he didn't count on incompetent judges.

He also beat Mosley in the second fight, amazingly judges give this to Mosley as a UD when again DLH fought a great fight and i think won a hard fought decision. I had that one 115-113 for DLH .The first fight was a MD for Mosley, a fight Mosley clearly won...go figure?
He beat Whitaker and Quartey in close decisions that went his way but he deserved the wins.
He was lucky to get the Sturm win
He lost the others to PBF, both Hopkins and Pacman stopped him.
My only beef with Oscar is he didn't fight Tszyu in 1996 or early 97, choosing instead to move up to 147lb to fight Whitaker in April of that year.

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He didn't fight Tszyu because Tszyu got knocked out by Vince Phillips. If Tszyu would have won that then the ODLH fight would have happened. The sole reason Kosta Tszyu went to America was for Oscar De La Hoya.

Well i grew up watching him and even with his loses he has wins over so many champs or former champs he still should be rated high. I mean there are only a few to win titles in that many divsion the only other fighter i know of that has is Tommy Hearns so not to many on that list. The only fighter i thought to beat him clearly in his prime was Mosley. The fighters i watch growing up were Mosley, Dela Hoya, and Holyfeild and there time is running out and for Dela Hoya well his done and thank him for the fights.

Mosley II-i had DLH winning by at LEAST 2 points
Sturm- it could have been a draw, but i'd say if i had to give it to anyone it'd be 115-113 Sturm
Whitaker-same as above but the opposite i had it 115-113 DLH
Quartey-he pulled the win out of his hat with the final round
Trinidad-I had DLH winning 8 of the first 9 rounds, utter robbery
Mayweather-i had PBF winning 115-113

so honestly his record should be more like
41 wins 5 losses (Mosley I, Sturm, B-Hop, PBF, Pacquiao)

I agree with OP. I think he beat Trinidad, but he ran away in the final few rounds and he will take that fact to the grave. It was fight he should have won. Against Quartey, very close, maybe a draw. Whittaker ? I thought he won that, against PBF I thought that was a fight he lost clearly. Mosley 2 was a disgrace but all in all, did DLH ever beat a great fighter in his prime ? He beat some VERY good ones..but a great one ? I'm not so sure.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

My only beef with Oscar is he didn't fight Tszyu in 1996 or early 97, choosing instead to move up to 147lb to fight Whitaker in April of that year.

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Can't criticize him for that. Whitaker was a legend on his way to the HOF and was still considered the best fighter in the world PFP by a lot of people. Taking him on at 147 was a FAR bigger challenge than fighting Tszyu.

That's not a knock on Tszyu, but he was no Whitaker.

I had the Pernell fight a draw
Thought he beat Quartey, Tito and Mosely in the their second fight
Thought he lost to Sturm and PBF.
If you say he wins the rubber match with Mosely and never fights Bhop after losing to Sturm had it played out my way he goes
40-4-1...I also think his legacy is less debatable. Has a draw against an ATG early in his carrer. Loses 1 of 3 to a great fighter in Mosely. Loses a close decision to a bigger fighter in Sturm and two PFP kings late in his carrer. I have always like the guy and the crappy decisions both for and against him will always be a thorn in my side.

I still do not understand how anyone thinks the PBF fight was even close...

I think I had it 5 rounds to 2 for ODH at the 7th. Then he stopped jabbing and obviously was tired and I didn't give him another round

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

I think I had it 5 rounds to 2 for ODH at the 7th. Then he stopped jabbing and obviously was tired and I didn't give him another round

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so 115-113 for PBF? same score, only thing is i gave DLH the last round IMO he pulled it out. the round i mean not the fight

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

I think I had it 5 rounds to 2 for ODH at the 7th. Then he stopped jabbing and obviously was tired and I didn't give him another round

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5 rounds to 2 for Oscar? Please explain what rounds Oscar won...

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

that's the point i'm trying to make, and no doubt neither one of the two would have been able to touch Whitaker

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Once again how can you compare? We don't know how Whitaker would have done against guys faster than him like Floyd and Pacquiao. IMO I think Floyd is a better fighter than Whitaker, he's harder to hit, he's faster, he's got more a little more snap on his punches.

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disagree completely, Floyd is nowhere as elusive as Whitaker, and as for speed i'd also give the edge to Whitaker, i'd say that at 140 he was faster than both Mayweather and Pacquiao, and on the flipside, Pacquiao has NEVER fought a defensive marvel like Whitaker who at his peak would make Manny miss by dipping down or simply with his foot work, he'd flurry in and be out without getting tagged, and yea Whitaker had the stamina to go the full 12 rounds and then some, Pacquiao is no welterweight don't make the mistake of thinking he is one, IMO he has very little to no chance against the likes of Cotto, Mosley, Berto, Williams, Clottey, etc.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

How about in the fact Pac's own trainer called De La Hoya a "walking corpse" who couldn't pull the trigger any more and was done. Seriously if you think about it how much credit can you really even give Pac for beating Oscar when his own trainer says the fight would of never happened if Oscar was still a threat?

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Roach also said Oscar couldn't pull the trigger against Floyd, yet he was pretty competitive in that fight. I am not saying Oscar wasn't at his worst ever, I am just saying I disagree with people who say any average joe would have beaten Oscar that night. IMO the only guys naturally under 147 that would have beaten Oscar that night would have been Floyd and PAcquiao, and MAYBE Victor Ortiz, but we haven't seen enough of him.

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Roach said this after the fight had happened, and competitive, at least i thought it was competitive but you're the one that's always saying that Oscar should have lost by at LEAST 4 rounds, IMO that's not a close or competitive fight, i like many others had floyd winning 115-113, it's no double standard

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this is from the other thread

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

I think I had it 5 rounds to 2 for ODH at the 7th. Then he stopped jabbing and obviously was tired and I didn't give him another round

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5 rounds to 2 for Oscar? Please explain what rounds Oscar won...

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thanks for proving my point

Off the top of my head
1-Mayweather lands a big right hand early, and outjabs Oscar hte rest of the round
2- OScar gets off his jab, lands a few right hands, and wins the round
3- Mayweather gets hit by a stiff jab early, Oscar throws a few useless flurries with FLoyd on the rope then for most of the round Mayweather stays on the outside and potshots. Clearly a Mayweather round, he landed more, better ring generalship and defense.
4- Oscar he lands a nice combo with Mayweather on the ropes early, then Oscar gets Mayweather once again on the ropes and attempts like 10 left hooks to the body in a row. Mayweather comes back in the last minute and lands some nice punches. I could see this going either way or 10-10, but I'll give it to Oscar.
5- Mayweather counters great in this round and lands a lot of punches IMO its an easy round to give to him. He even stuns OScar with two counter right hands off the ropes.
6- Mayweather landed more, I know Oscar had good defense in parts, landed a few big punches, but Mayweather landed more clean punches.

I thought Oscar lost all of them except for Trinidad. And BigH I'm almost certain most of the ringside press had it for Mosley in the second fight, that was what was odd since most TV viewers had Oscar winning.

Edit: Mosley-De La Hoya II: Same Result; More Controversy

"In a poll of 28 sportswriters at ringside, 16 scored it for Mosley, eight for De La Hoya and four had it as a draw."

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I thought Oscar lost all of them except for Trinidad. And BigH I'm almost certain most of the ringside press had it for Mosley in the second fight, that was what was odd since most TV viewers had Oscar winning.

Edit: Mosley-De La Hoya II: Same Result; More Controversy

"In a poll of 28 sportswriters at ringside, 16 scored it for Mosley, eight for De La Hoya and four had it as a draw."

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Cool, I must've got mixed up there. I cannot see how DLH lost that second fight though!

DLH deserved all of his losses. He lost against Sturm too imo.

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Originally Posted by Killa From Manila

DLH deserved all of his losses. He lost against Sturm too imo.

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completely disagree, Trinidad & Mosley II were bad calls, just as the Sturm fight was

IMO you could replace Trinidad and Mosley II with Sturm and Quartey, my question is which fights would have meant more for his career? IMO if he had been given the win on Mosley and Trinidad people would consider him so much more than he was. I had him losing a really close fight to Quartey, but he was just outjabbed.

Good stuff.

I had Oscar beating Whitaker buy a few,Quartey buy a notch and loved the way he finished.

Had Tito fight 114-114 right down the middle.Oscar took it for granted,big time!

Thought the Sturm fight was another case on an 'unknown' coming stateside against the a superstar looking to bigger headlines and getting the ever loving shite robbed out of him.Terrible call.

Mayweather over Oscar by a couple.Very glad no re-match happened ;D

In the minority it looks but I had Mosley winning the rematch,very close hard fight.Oscar boxed very well early but I think Mosley was stronger down the stretch,moved Oscar.Also think it was one of the most biased calls Ive heard from The HBO team,especially soap box Lampley :action:

Oscar was exceptional fighter but not great, lost the major fights when it counted. He had real courage to break and challenge the status quo of welter champs, Whitaker, Ike and Tito who were just happy to defend their titles and not unify.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

My only beef with Oscar is he didn't fight Tszyu in 1996 or early 97, choosing instead to move up to 147lb to fight Whitaker in April of that year.

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Can't criticize him for that. Whitaker was a legend on his way to the HOF and was still considered the best fighter in the world PFP by a lot of people. Taking him on at 147 was a FAR bigger challenge than fighting Tszyu.

That's not a knock on Tszyu, but he was no Whitaker.

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You could also argue that Whitaker was no Tszyu, i don't blame Oscar for taking on Whitaker, a good challenge, i just think he had second thoughts about taking on a guy that just might get in the way of the bigger picture he had in mind down the track. I think it is the only time in Oscar's career he may have dodged an opponent.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He beat Trinidad, i had it 117-110 an amazing decision considering it was one of DLH's best performances, yes he lost the last 3 rounds but he wasn't going to knock Trinidad out so why take the risk, he didn't count on incompetent judges.

He also beat Mosley in the second fight, amazingly judges give this to Mosley as a UD when again DLH fought a great fight and i think won a hard fought decision. I had that one 115-113 for DLH .The first fight was a MD for Mosley, a fight Mosley clearly won...go figure?
He beat Whitaker and Quartey in close decisions that went his way but he deserved the wins.
He was lucky to get the Sturm win
He lost the others to PBF, both Hopkins and Pacman stopped him.
My only beef with Oscar is he didn't fight Tszyu in 1996 or early 97, choosing instead to move up to 147lb to fight Whitaker in April of that year.

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He didn't fight Tszyu because Tszyu got knocked out by Vince Phillips. If Tszyu would have won that then the ODLH fight would have happened. The sole reason Kosta Tszyu went to America was for Oscar De La Hoya.

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Once again i have to point out the inaccuracies of this statement. The Whitaker fight was fought one month before Tszyu fought Phillips! Oscar was never going back to 140lb again to fight Tszyu, i don't believe he ever wanted to fight Tszyu at all. He had all of 1996 to fight Tszyu and there was no chance of Whitaker ever knocking him out. I would have done the same thing, Whitaker was the marquee name and was the drawcard, why risk everything against a guy who could embarrassley KO him and ruin the golden path to fame and fortune that Oscar ultimately achieved.

i dont get you master you say Oscar not great but he has more quality wins the chavez does and he considered great. Oscar has wins over Jimmi Bredahl,Jorge Paez,John John Molina,Carl Griffith,Genaro Hernandez,Jesse James Leija,Julio Cesar Chavez,Miguel Angel Gonzalez,Pernell Whitaker,Hector Camacho,Ike Quartey,Arturo Gatti,Fernando Vargas,Felix Sturm,Ricardo Mayorga, and Steve Forbes now not all those names are greats but everyone of them is a champ or held one of big belts. I mean even with his losses he has won titles in sfw,lw,lww,ww,lmw and mm. Not to mention with his competion he has been his title fight record is 25-5 which is not bad what so ever he is atg even with his loses.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

He beat Trinidad, i had it 117-110 an amazing decision considering it was one of DLH's best performances, yes he lost the last 3 rounds but he wasn't going to knock Trinidad out so why take the risk, he didn't count on incompetent judges.

He also beat Mosley in the second fight, amazingly judges give this to Mosley as a UD when again DLH fought a great fight and i think won a hard fought decision. I had that one 115-113 for DLH .The first fight was a MD for Mosley, a fight Mosley clearly won...go figure?
He beat Whitaker and Quartey in close decisions that went his way but he deserved the wins.
He was lucky to get the Sturm win
He lost the others to PBF, both Hopkins and Pacman stopped him.
My only beef with Oscar is he didn't fight Tszyu in 1996 or early 97, choosing instead to move up to 147lb to fight Whitaker in April of that year.

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He didn't fight Tszyu because Tszyu got knocked out by Vince Phillips. If Tszyu would have won that then the ODLH fight would have happened. The sole reason Kosta Tszyu went to America was for Oscar De La Hoya.

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Once again i have to point out the inaccuracies of this statement. The Whitaker fight was fought one month before Tszyu fought Phillips! Oscar was never going back to 140lb again to fight Tszyu, i don't believe he ever wanted to fight Tszyu at all. He had all of 1996 to fight Tszyu and there was no chance of Whitaker ever knocking him out. I would have done the same thing, Whitaker was the marquee name and was the drawcard, why risk everything against a guy who could embarrassley KO him and ruin the golden path to fame and fortune that Oscar ultimately achieved.

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in DLH's defense, when Oscar was at 140 Tszyu wasn't the big name he ended up being, Kostya got the huge fame AFTER he KO'd Judah, and i doubt very much Tszyu would have been able to hurt DLH, he had a great chin and was getting close to his peak, if anything DLH could of been the one doing what Phillips did to him

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Now that De La Hoya has retired, I am looking at all his close, controversial fights and seeing where he was robbed and where he got a gift!

Whitaker - I had De La Hoya winning by one point by virture of winning the last round

Quartey - I thought Quartey won this, I can remember my scorecard, but I had Quartey up by 1 or 2 points

Trinidad - I had Oscar winning this one

Mosely II - I thought De La Hoya won this quite clearly and was robbed!

Sturm - Oscar got a lucky decision

PBF - I had PBF winning this by a couple of rounds


Any thoughts?

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Whitaker fight = Draw
Quartey fight = Quartey by 1 point
Trinidad fight = ODLH by 1 point
Mosley fight 2 = ODLH by a few points
Sturm fight = Sturm by 2 points
Mayweather fight = Mayweather by 3 points

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Now that De La Hoya has retired, I am looking at all his close, controversial fights and seeing where he was robbed and where he got a gift!

Whitaker - I had De La Hoya winning by one point by virture of winning the last round

Quartey - I thought Quartey won this, I can remember my scorecard, but I had Quartey up by 1 or 2 points

Trinidad - I had Oscar winning this one

Mosely II - I thought De La Hoya won this quite clearly and was robbed!

Sturm - Oscar got a lucky decision

PBF - I had PBF winning this by a couple of rounds


Any thoughts?

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Whitaker fight = Draw
Quartey fight = Quartey by 1 point
Trinidad fight = ODLH by 1 point
Mosley fight 2 = ODLH by a few points
Sturm fight = Sturm by 2 points
Mayweather fight = Mayweather by 3 points

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And where have you been young man? :mad:

18-26-1 (14ko)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Now that De La Hoya has retired, I am looking at all his close, controversial fights and seeing where he was robbed and where he got a gift!

Whitaker - I had De La Hoya winning by one point by virture of winning the last round

Quartey - I thought Quartey won this, I can remember my scorecard, but I had Quartey up by 1 or 2 points

Trinidad - I had Oscar winning this one

Mosely II - I thought De La Hoya won this quite clearly and was robbed!

Sturm - Oscar got a lucky decision

PBF - I had PBF winning this by a couple of rounds


Any thoughts?

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Whitaker fight = Draw
Quartey fight = Quartey by 1 point
Trinidad fight = ODLH by 1 point
Mosley fight 2 = ODLH by a few points
Sturm fight = Sturm by 2 points
Mayweather fight = Mayweather by 3 points

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And where have you been young man? :mad:

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Been busy with the new baby man, and i been sorting some stuff out with my life. I try to come on as much as i can, i haven't really been following boxing. About 2 days ago i recently tried to catch up on the latest fights, how you been Greg ? hope all is well bro.