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out of all the great fighters ive seen . for me roy jones is the best prime for prime,pound for pound, the most talented fighter i have ever seen. the things he did when i watch his fights take my breath away. does anyone agree. or does anyone think other wise,if so let me no why
No.
whys that thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
its easy to say no. whats ur reason. or r u just a ........Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
Edited for language
Big H
no need to begin the insults, and i agree with Killa, no, although Jones was impressive and should be consider ONE of the greatest fighters ever, he didn't have the level of competition fighters like Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, etc. hadQuote:
Originally Posted by paddy448its easy to say no. whats ur reason. or r u just a fukkin prikQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
You gotta be the biggest fukking idiot ever if you think RJJjr is greater than SRR, Joe Lewis, or Ali. Now STFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448its easy to say no. whats ur reason. or r u just a fukkin prikQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
a valid point indeed my friend. for me tho skill wise there was no one better. but yeah i see what u mean. if only roy had as good as competion. or was roy so good that the people he fought looked pedestrian.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno need to begin the insults, and i agree with Killa, no, although Jones was impressive and should be consider ONE of the greatest fighters ever, he didn't have the level of competition fighters like Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, etc. hadQuote:
Originally Posted by paddy448its easy to say no. whats ur reason. or r u just a fukkin prikQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
no need for that mate - have some class
How old are you if you don't mind me asking ? Just interested in what fighters you've seen . Jones is a leading contender for the greatest fighter of the last 15-20 years I agree but all time - no.
Old timers Ray Robinson, Ali, Louis, Armstrong, Dempsey and Pepp . More recently Leonard, Duran, Hagler and Chavez. All those are names I have just reeled off and would put ahead of RJJ.
You seen any of these guys in action ??
ha ha. stfu. NO. its my opinion. yes i may be the biggest idiot ever sue me.and yeah ive seen all the guys u just mentioned and i think if a prime roy was around in any of there eras i think he would of been p4p number1Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaYou gotta be the biggest fukking idiot ever if you think RJJjr is greater than SRR, Joe Lewis, or Ali. Now STFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448its easy to say no. whats ur reason. or r u just a fukkin prikQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
22 mate. its irrelavent tho. i seen those guys fight, yeah on video. but like i just said to manilla i think if a prime roy jones was around in any of those guys era he would be p4p number. its just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
may i ask who ur number 1 of all time is mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
that's fair enough - we are all entitled to one ;)
Would have to think about it some but off top of my head now I don't reckon he'd make my top 20
OMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448ha ha. stfu. NO. its my opinion. yes i may be the biggest idiot ever sue me.and yeah ive seen all the guys u just mentioned and i think if a prime roy was around in any of there eras i think he would of been p4p number1Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaYou gotta be the biggest fukking idiot ever if you think RJJjr is greater than SRR, Joe Lewis, or Ali. Now STFU.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
Ali , Robinson closely behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448may i ask who ur number 1 of all time is mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
listen mate. i apolagise for saying ur a fuckin prick. i jumped the gun, my bad, its as simple as this tho from all of the great fighters of seen i think roy jones is the best most skillfull ive seen. and i think he would of been p4p best in any era. who u got as ur number 1. this is why i love this sport and this website, its the difference of opinion that makes it greatQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaOMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448ha ha. stfu. NO. its my opinion. yes i may be the biggest idiot ever sue me.and yeah ive seen all the guys u just mentioned and i think if a prime roy was around in any of there eras i think he would of been p4p number1Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
seriously both you guys need to just cool it down, no need to start thrashing each other, same crap happened just yesterday when Danny G started insulting even though one would talk to him decently at first, and look what happened to him, he's banned, so lets just cool itQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaOMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448ha ha. stfu. NO. its my opinion. yes i may be the biggest idiot ever sue me.and yeah ive seen all the guys u just mentioned and i think if a prime roy was around in any of there eras i think he would of been p4p number1Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
and back to the topic, like Mark TKO i don't think Jones Jr makes my top 20, and if he does he's probably the 20, i'll put together my top 20 and post it later
Nah.Not for me.In hindsight,I think he may have wasted some valuable time with much lesser fights when bigger challenges were out there to be had.He may very well have walked a path on the backs of a Benn,Collins,Michalczewski,Nunn etc but we'll never know.He could have stamped his legacy in stone by facing the best available but was afforded the choice to blow out the Thortons,Sosa's,Pazienza,Brannons etc.Some of his headliners were borderline sparring sessions.He was that good indeed,but could have tested himself much more I believe.
Im not disregarding the mans pure blazing athletic skill.Just a phenom with killer instincts,timing and handspeed that left you dizzy.But he frankly complained of bordom,not getting payed enough for potential big fights and thought himself a little high & mighty.His wins over Hill,a Young Hopkins and Toney deserve much respect.Some say Toney was weight drained etc,etc,....Whos fault is that?Jones whipped him and I think was inside of Toneys head before the opening bell ever rang.Jones was a sensation,but not the very best ever we've had the pleasure to know.
i can understand that mate both amazing fighters. a big fan of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKOAli , Robinson closely behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448may i ask who ur number 1 of all time is mateQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
In Roy's own mind, maybe. But no. not even close. Like someone else said, he doesn't have the accomplishments, or the high level of opponents. He had the physical abilities, strength, speed, reflexes, etc though, and he might have been if decided to be the best he could possibly be. But he didn't so he isn't.
he had all the ability and charisma to be this generations Ali, but IMO he fell a little short, either way he's still an ATGQuote:
Originally Posted by CGM
I honestly believe RJJ is the most talented fighter of all time, and prime for prime could beat anybody. His athleticism in particular is a country mile ahead of any other fighter ever. But, and its a big but, there are many fighters who fought greater opposition and won therefore they have to be ranked higher. If Roy had 3 or 4 more big name wins on his resume during his prime, eg. Dariusz, Benn, Ottke, Collins, Eubank, Nunn, Calzaghe then he could very well be ranked best all time.
that better be a joke lolQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
[QUOTE=eagle;716246]I honestly believe RJJ is the most talented fighter of all time, and prime for prime could beat anybody. His athleticism in particular is a country mile ahead of any other fighter ever. But, and its a big but, there are many fighters who fought greater opposition and won therefore they have to be ranked higher. If Roy had 3 or 4 more big name wins on his resume during his prime, eg. Dariusz, Benn, Ottke, Collins, Eubank, Nunn, Calzaghe then he could very well be ranked best all time.[/QUOTE yeah exactly skill wise talent and all that on his day i think he was untoucable. but yeah he could of done a little more for his legacy. id of loved to of seen him fight benn, eubank, nunn, and calzaghe earlier on. i remember roy saying at one point he wanted tyson straight after ruiz, what a fight that would of been. and still i think he could of won all of those fight therefore im calling him the greatest fighter ive seen.
maybe tyson, nunn, mclennan.who else was arond that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat better be a joke lolQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
No doubt he could have been. But he wasted his prime not fighting the best available.
Cant deny in his day he was so awesome. His highlights are just incredible but who's he destroying in spectacular fashion to back up the claim Roy jones greatest ever.
Now dont get me wrong he has a decent resume but just not one he should really have for someone with his skills lets be honest. and we cant just say well he looked amazing in his prime so therefore best ever. You need the names to back it up.
im referring to the Sven Ottke statement, Ottke is the biggest sham in the history of pro boxingQuote:
Originally Posted by paddy448maybe tyson, nunn, mclennan.who else was arond that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat better be a joke lolQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
i think if jones would of fought sven ottke and beat him he would of been the undisputed best ever.people wouldnt be havin this argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesthat better be a joke lolQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
yeah. i think my thread was written wrong. maybe roy jones wasnt the greatest but he had the skills to be. i think that would of been more appropriateQuote:
Originally Posted by Tins06
Like i say no-one doubts he could have been the most kick-ass badboy boxer ever. Just didint do enough and harmed his legacy by coming back down from HW.If he just hung em up after that he might have got away with not having tons of great fighters on his resume.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448yeah. i think my thread was written wrong. maybe roy jones wasnt the greatest but he had the skills to be. i think that would of been more appropriateQuote:
Originally Posted by Tins06
Actually being given his gold medal may have helped aswell but he was robbed of the honour... maybe thats why he never chased after fights far from home. something like that would affect my decisions if i got screwed that bad.s
I think whilst Jones was good he would scrape into an all time top 20, it's all a matter of opinions and taste in styles too.Some like defensive fighters others head on chargers.
Problem with Jones was I don't think he called out the people he could have to cement his legacy by clearing up the middleweight and super divisions. he messed around with moving up weights then droppin too quick and causing himself damage. As for him calling out Tyson............
I think Tyson would of made a mess of him.He was calling out Douglas...but his father thought better of it if I remember correctly?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebhoy
The version of Roy Jones at 168 was the most naturally gifted athlete to ever step in the ring...I think during that short period of time in a P4P style basis he was the greatest fighter I ever seen,,,Greatest of all time no...We can not base a fighter on that one short period of time in their career and say they were the best....Just like you can not take a great fighter who does not know when to quit and downgrade his achievements due to his shortcomings as a shot fighter....Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
If Jones spent as much time as a SMW and fought more quality opponents during that time the arguement would be strong but there are too many chinks in his career that deter his being even in the top 10 of all time
Roy Jones dodged a lot of good fighters IMO to try to keep his undefeated record. There were plenty of good fighters out there that he never fought. He was very talented yeah, but the greatest ever? Not even close.
I think Jones jr has damaged his legacy somewhat considerably in recent years and it's alright saying what a great fighter he was 8-10 years ago the fact is he was KTFO by Tarver and soundly beaten another time, KTFO by Glen Johnson and soundly beaten by Calzaghe all in the last 5 years!
Is he an ATG? the answer is yes he is, was he the greatest ever? No he isn't! I don't even think he is the best LHW ever, would he have beaten Bob Foster? I say Bob lands a big one on Roy and it's lights out!
Jones Jr like Oscar drops down a few rungs on the ATG list after some poor performances later in their careers.
Michelzhe whatever his name is I havent heard of him but on his record he lost to someone Roy beat every round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
James Toney beat Nunn. I agree he should have fought Eubank and Nigel Benn, I only saw Eubank on youtube in a few Kos and on classic against Carl Thompson the guy that beat david haye.
No one does take credit away from eubank or benns career, but they didn't fight James Toney or Michael Nunn either. As far as I know their biggest fights were against each other. I'm probably wrong but thats about all I see on their lists that their biggest fights were against each other so why don't they get any flack for not fighting James Toney? Roy Jones did that and won easily. Were Benn and Eubank truly that much better then Toney?
Also why does a fighter have to be tested hard to be considered an all time great? People throw around that he never had an opponent that gave him a rough time. But doesn't that only add to his dominance? Doesn't it make a fighter more dominant to say he was never tested when people like Hopkins, James Toney and Montell Griffin are on his record?
If RJJ retired after he beat Ruiz I thinbk a lot of people would have him at least top 10 p4p all time. Same as with Tyson people's judgements are tainted by what happend after his prime
No he is not the greatest ever! And I've commented on recycled threads regarding Roy before. Roy to me was a Lamborghini driven at 50 miles per hour and could have been alot better had he pushed the gas down on his talents and made better career choices.
Some people measure it by that... others by SKILL. Accomplishments are contemporary to what ever era the guy fought inQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaOMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448ha ha. stfu. NO. its my opinion. yes i may be the biggest idiot ever sue me.and yeah ive seen all the guys u just mentioned and i think if a prime roy was around in any of there eras i think he would of been p4p number1Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa From Manila
So you CAN compare jones to fighters from other eras based on the relative SKILL you think he has in comparison. :rolleyes:
agree with what your saying but the competition you have does play a crucial role also, cause you know how the reacted or would react in different situationsQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBSome people measure it by that... others by SKILL. Accomplishments are contemporary to what ever era the guy fought inQuote:
Originally Posted by Killa From ManilaOMG. You've just exposed yourself like a true dillhole. Do you even know what "pound for pound" means? You measure it by accomplishments. And Jones is nowhere near what SRR accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
So you CAN compare jones to fighters from other eras based on the relative SKILL you think he has in comparison. :rolleyes:
I get where your comming from without putting words in your mouth .Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy448
I read it like you originally ment ring skills alone.
He has to be up there near the top you cant deny what he got up to in there that others wouldnt have the guts to even think about doing let alone try for real.
Even against a middle of the road pro most top pros wouldnt place their hands behind their back lean forwards to invite a ko hook shot then move and singly counter punch removing the suckersaid attacker from the fight.
Put Roy 'at his all time best form' in front of any top fighter from any era and he would of given over 95% of them trouble.
He is a bit like Naz was. experimental and ballsy that makes people who want strict boxing to always prevail their long term detractors,its an old sport many hate seeing something untaught working against them.
Not everything works every time in the ring or out of it for that matter.
I love it though; seeing people push the so called limits even if they do get caught out once in while ;). theres alot to learn from their moves if you care to.