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I was just wondering if anyone could enlighten me about the injury thats banning Valero from boxing in the U.S- Barring Texas, from what I've seen of Valero he appears to be a great fighter- if a little sloppy with his footwork- what would seem unquestionable is that he packs one hell of a punch- just wonder if he'll get the career he deserves with this ban in place?
Also heard a rumour he was due to fight Breidis Prescott- anyone know if there's any truth in that?
From Wikipedia:
On February 5, 2001, Valero was involved in a severe motorcycle accident in which he wasn't wearing a helmet. He fractured his skull and had surgery to remove a blood clot. This injury was sustained prior to him launching his pro career, and it has created roadblocks to major bodies sanctioning his fights. Valero claims that his Venezuelan doctor cleared him to fight on January 17, 2002, and he turned pro that July with a first-round KO.
Valero appeared to hit the jackpot when he was signed after his 12th pro fight by Golden Boy Promotions. Valero was scheduled to appear on HBO's Boxing After Dark, but in January 2004, he failed an MRI due to brain scan irregularities in New York and thus was not allowed to fight in the United States. As a result, the fight did not take place. He has continued to fight outside the US, and, as of March 25, 2008, Valero was cleared to box in the state of Texas.
cheers! So any news on whether the ban will be lifted in other states?
and any idea on the Prescott rumour? seems a bit strange to me, Prescott's seemed pretty frosen out since beating Khan- feel Valero would be a far too big a step up in class
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
He's fighting Presscot on the 25th of July.
Should he win that I hope he gets a shot at Marquez. That would be a great fight. I know most would have Valero as a big underdog in that fight personally I think he knocks Marquez out inside 8 rounds.
Thats a bold prediction.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
He's fighting Presscot on the 25th of July.
Should he win that I hope he gets a shot at Marquez. That would be a great fight. I know most would have Valero as a big underdog in that fight personally I think he knocks Marquez out inside 8 rounds.
Marquez is struggling these days. Casamayor went to war with him, Diaz had the upper hand early, he's old, he's out of his weight class (Valero yes but he's younger and will adapt better) and he's battle worn.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkThats a bold prediction.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
He's fighting Presscot on the 25th of July.
Should he win that I hope he gets a shot at Marquez. That would be a great fight. I know most would have Valero as a big underdog in that fight personally I think he knocks Marquez out inside 8 rounds.
I can remember him struggling to get Jimrax Jaca out of there and he's lost virtually every fight since to nobodies.
Him and Valero will slug it out as Marquez knows no other way, (not nowadays at least, earlier in his career he was more of a boxer) and Valero will be too quick, too strong and too hungry.
The ref or his corner will save him around the 8th round, probably in between rounds. :)
If the deal with Mayweather Jr. ever gets sealed, Marquez may finally get the payday he's been looking for... but he would look very slow and old. Unlike a fight with the much younger Valero, he has a strong chance of winning conveniently. It's the styles that make Marquez look good and he has to pick his fights carefully if he wants to prolong his earning potential. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboMarquez is struggling these days. Casamayor went to war with him, Diaz had the upper hand early, he's old, he's out of his weight class (Valero yes but he's younger and will adapt better) and he's battle worn.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkThats a bold prediction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I can remember him struggling to get Jimrax Jaca out of there and he's lost virtually every fight since to nobodies.
Him and Valero will slug it out as Marquez knows no other way, (not nowadays at least, earlier in his career he was more of a boxer) and Valero will be too quick, too strong and too hungry.
The ref or his corner will save him around the 8th round, probably in between rounds. :)
Casamayor is a great fighter though. There's no shame in having a close fight with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboMarquez is struggling these days. Casamayor went to war with him, Diaz had the upper hand early, he's old, he's out of his weight class (Valero yes but he's younger and will adapt better) and he's battle worn.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkThats a bold prediction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I can remember him struggling to get Jimrax Jaca out of there and he's lost virtually every fight since to nobodies.
Him and Valero will slug it out as Marquez knows no other way, (not nowadays at least, earlier in his career he was more of a boxer) and Valero will be too quick, too strong and too hungry.
The ref or his corner will save him around the 8th round, probably in between rounds. :)
And maybe Jaca was ruined by Marquez thats why he keeps losing now. Thats a possibility.
I assume that you believe Valero's power is for real and that is a big factor in you sayin he'd stop Marquez, right?
Also I admit I was surprised how much trouble he had with Diaz early. He got rocked. And I was rooting for Diaz.
Yes I believe Valero's power is for real. Pitalua was no mug having knocked out Santa Cruz who by rights should have been the linear champ after his fight with Casamayor.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkCasamayor is a great fighter though. There's no shame in having a close fight with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboMarquez is struggling these days. Casamayor went to war with him, Diaz had the upper hand early, he's old, he's out of his weight class (Valero yes but he's younger and will adapt better) and he's battle worn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I can remember him struggling to get Jimrax Jaca out of there and he's lost virtually every fight since to nobodies.
Him and Valero will slug it out as Marquez knows no other way, (not nowadays at least, earlier in his career he was more of a boxer) and Valero will be too quick, too strong and too hungry.
The ref or his corner will save him around the 8th round, probably in between rounds. :)
And maybe Jaca was ruined by Marquez thats why he keeps losing now. Thats a possibility.
I assume that you believe Valero's power is for real and that is a big factor in you sayin he'd stop Marquez, right?
Also I admit I was surprised how much trouble he had with Diaz early. He got rocked. And I was rooting for Diaz.
I honestly think Breidas Prescott will be a tougher fight than Marquez becuase he's a massive lightweight who can really punch.
Marquez is smaller, not as strong and older. He's slowed a lot too which is why he's standing and trading more. He's a great fighter but he's not at his best now imo and Valero would take full advantage.
He's as ferocious and hungry as Juan Diaz, hits twice as hard and from what we've seen so far is more durable.
If Marquez took it to the late rounds then you'd favour experience over youth but I see him getting badly cut early and his corner retiring him after 7 or 8 rounds.
It's a bold prediction yes, but I'm an opinionated guy :)
JMM schools Valero at this point!!!
Bilbos been hitting the bottle again. :alcoholic:
Bilbo just has it out for JMM. ;)
All you have to do is go through some of his posts to see this.
I don't think Valero beats Marquez right now. Valero hasn't really done too much yet, and from what I've seen he's a hard puncher, but has no defence.
Marquez is still just about on the top of his game and is knocking people clean out.
He won't last forever though, and has about a year left at the top IMO.
Spot on miles.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I actually think he's got 3 fights left in him. The last one being really shakey.
But I think he's good for 2 more top caliber fights.
Bilbo didn't you predict a Juan Diaz win?
If he was more durable he would have won. Clearly on that showing at least Marquez would have been manhandled by the Nate Campbell that bullied Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think Marquez is a terrific fighter I just think the ring wars have caught up with him.
Both Juan Diaz and Casamayor had both been beaten a lot easier in recent fights than Marquez managed.
Santa Cruz cruised to a win over Casa but was robbed, Marquez's win was much more emphatic, he literally destroyed Casa at the end, but he had to go to war with him to do it.
You can think I'm crazy but when I picture Marquez in the ring with Valero (or Cory Spinks for that matter) I just see him getting dominated in the exchange. He will go toe to toe with Valero and I think Valero will stop him, younger, fresher, stronger.
Not dissing Marquez at all I just think the lightweight division is the extreme for his weight and size and that he's come to the end of his prime career and is now on the slide.
He's older than Barrera remember. We've seen Morales go, Barrera lasted maybe a year longer, and Marquez a year longer again, but he's past his prime now. Not shot by any means, but slipped enough for a younger hungry fighter like Valero or Juan Guzman to take advantage.
It will be interesting to see who his next fight is against, but you are right in that I will probably be backing against him for the third time in his last 4 fights :p
A simple yes-no would have suffice but thanks for trying to somewhat "back" why you've picked against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf he was more durable he would have won. Clearly on that showing at least Marquez would have been manhandled by the Nate Campbell that bullied Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think Marquez is a terrific fighter I just think the ring wars have caught up with him.
Both Juan Diaz and Casamayor had both been beaten a lot easier in recent fights than Marquez managed.
Santa Cruz cruised to a win over Casa but was robbed, Marquez's win was much more emphatic, he literally destroyed Casa at the end, but he had to go to war with him to do it.
You can think I'm crazy but when I picture Marquez in the ring with Valero (or Cory Spinks for that matter) I just see him getting dominated in the exchange. He will go toe to toe with Valero and I think Valero will stop him, younger, fresher, stronger.
Not dissing Marquez at all I just think the lightweight division is the extreme for his weight and size and that he's come to the end of his prime career and is now on the slide.
He's older than Barrera remember. We've seen Morales go, Barrera lasted maybe a year longer, and Marquez a year longer again, but he's past his prime now. Not shot by any means, but slipped enough for a younger hungry fighter like Valero or Juan Guzman to take advantage.
It will be interesting to see who his next fight is against, but you are right in that I will probably be backing against him for the third time in his last 4 fights :p
You've got good reasons to believe eveything you post but, if JMM loses now it will be a great fighter. He will not lose to someone like Valero not now a year from now possibly but not now.
As for your entire post it's quite simple.
Styles make fights.
JMM & Casa both counter punchers.
Diaz a fucking bull that lives up to his nickame.
If Casa was done and all this talk why didn't Pac fight him when he moved up to Lightweight? Why did he go and face David Diaz?
JMM took on 2 of the best available Lightweights in the world at that time and he won.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickA simple yes-no would have suffice but thanks for trying to somewhat "back" why you've picked against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf he was more durable he would have won. Clearly on that showing at least Marquez would have been manhandled by the Nate Campbell that bullied Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think Marquez is a terrific fighter I just think the ring wars have caught up with him.
Both Juan Diaz and Casamayor had both been beaten a lot easier in recent fights than Marquez managed.
Santa Cruz cruised to a win over Casa but was robbed, Marquez's win was much more emphatic, he literally destroyed Casa at the end, but he had to go to war with him to do it.
You can think I'm crazy but when I picture Marquez in the ring with Valero (or Cory Spinks for that matter) I just see him getting dominated in the exchange. He will go toe to toe with Valero and I think Valero will stop him, younger, fresher, stronger.
Not dissing Marquez at all I just think the lightweight division is the extreme for his weight and size and that he's come to the end of his prime career and is now on the slide.
He's older than Barrera remember. We've seen Morales go, Barrera lasted maybe a year longer, and Marquez a year longer again, but he's past his prime now. Not shot by any means, but slipped enough for a younger hungry fighter like Valero or Juan Guzman to take advantage.
It will be interesting to see who his next fight is against, but you are right in that I will probably be backing against him for the third time in his last 4 fights :p
You've got good reasons to believe eveything you post but, if JMM loses now it will be a great fighter. He will not lose to someone like Valero not now a year from now possibly but not now.
As for your entire post it's quite simple.
Styles make fights.
JMM & Casa both counter punchers.
Diaz a fucking bull that lives up to his nickame.
If Casa was done and all this talk why didn't Pac fight him when he moved up to Lightweight? Why did he go and face David Diaz?
JMM took on 2 of the best available Lightweights in the world at that time and he won.
Out of interest Mick do you also think Marquez could move up to 154 lbs and knock out Cory Spinks?
Mick we all know both Pac and JMM will fight anyone. David Diaz became pacs oppenent at lightweight because he was the easy fight to make and so Bob wouldn't need to share profit with another promoter. Diaz was given the chance but he was just a tune up for bigger things to come for pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickA simple yes-no would have suffice but thanks for trying to somewhat "back" why you've picked against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIf he was more durable he would have won. Clearly on that showing at least Marquez would have been manhandled by the Nate Campbell that bullied Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I think Marquez is a terrific fighter I just think the ring wars have caught up with him.
Both Juan Diaz and Casamayor had both been beaten a lot easier in recent fights than Marquez managed.
Santa Cruz cruised to a win over Casa but was robbed, Marquez's win was much more emphatic, he literally destroyed Casa at the end, but he had to go to war with him to do it.
You can think I'm crazy but when I picture Marquez in the ring with Valero (or Cory Spinks for that matter) I just see him getting dominated in the exchange. He will go toe to toe with Valero and I think Valero will stop him, younger, fresher, stronger.
Not dissing Marquez at all I just think the lightweight division is the extreme for his weight and size and that he's come to the end of his prime career and is now on the slide.
He's older than Barrera remember. We've seen Morales go, Barrera lasted maybe a year longer, and Marquez a year longer again, but he's past his prime now. Not shot by any means, but slipped enough for a younger hungry fighter like Valero or Juan Guzman to take advantage.
It will be interesting to see who his next fight is against, but you are right in that I will probably be backing against him for the third time in his last 4 fights :p
You've got good reasons to believe eveything you post but, if JMM loses now it will be a great fighter. He will not lose to someone like Valero not now a year from now possibly but not now.
As for your entire post it's quite simple.
Styles make fights.
JMM & Casa both counter punchers.
Diaz a fucking bull that lives up to his nickame.
If Casa was done and all this talk why didn't Pac fight him when he moved up to Lightweight? Why did he go and face David Diaz?
JMM took on 2 of the best available Lightweights in the world at that time and he won.
BTW Im real proud of JMM he is KIng at 135 and after saturday Pac will be king of 140. Can we even begin to image the legacy these two are creating!!!!
Fuck NO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboOut of interest Mick do you also think Marquez could move up to 154 lbs and knock out Cory Spinks?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickA simple yes-no would have suffice but thanks for trying to somewhat "back" why you've picked against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
You've got good reasons to believe eveything you post but, if JMM loses now it will be a great fighter. He will not lose to someone like Valero not now a year from now possibly but not now.
As for your entire post it's quite simple.
Styles make fights.
JMM & Casa both counter punchers.
Diaz a fucking bull that lives up to his nickame.
If Casa was done and all this talk why didn't Pac fight him when he moved up to Lightweight? Why did he go and face David Diaz?
JMM took on 2 of the best available Lightweights in the world at that time and he won.
However I said this after the Casa win that JMM if he's smart he will capture a 4th title in 4 divisions and will be the 1st Mexican to ever do this.
At 140 I think he beats any of the title holders.
Def. JR...Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainMick we all know both Pac and JMM will fight anyone. David Diaz became pacs oppenent at lightweight because he was the easy fight to make and so Bob wouldn't need to share profit with another promoter. Diaz was given the chance but he was just a tune up for bigger things to come for pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickA simple yes-no would have suffice but thanks for trying to somewhat "back" why you've picked against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
You've got good reasons to believe eveything you post but, if JMM loses now it will be a great fighter. He will not lose to someone like Valero not now a year from now possibly but not now.
As for your entire post it's quite simple.
Styles make fights.
JMM & Casa both counter punchers.
Diaz a fucking bull that lives up to his nickame.
If Casa was done and all this talk why didn't Pac fight him when he moved up to Lightweight? Why did he go and face David Diaz?
JMM took on 2 of the best available Lightweights in the world at that time and he won.
BTW Im real proud of JMM he is KIng at 135 and after saturday Pac will be king of 140. Can we even begin to image the legacy these two are creating!!!!
These 2 are doing big things.
Pac more then JMM as it's clear he's far more popular world wide.
But as far as boxing goes I think it's rivalries like this that make our sport one of a kind and a sport that will live on forever.
Ah good I'm glad at least Saddo's main man hasn't gone completely delusional.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickFuck NO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboOut of interest Mick do you also think Marquez could move up to 154 lbs and knock out Cory Spinks?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
However I said this after the Casa win that JMM if he's smart he will capture a 4th title in 4 divisions and will be the 1st Mexican to ever do this.
At 140 I think he beats any of the title holders.
It seems like after Pac's win over a weight drained Oscar people think any great fighter can move up to any weight class and win no problem.
Marquez would have no chance against Spinks at 154lbs
At 140 Marquez gets beat by Hatton. Hatton would just bully him.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickFuck NO.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboOut of interest Mick do you also think Marquez could move up to 154 lbs and knock out Cory Spinks?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
However I said this after the Casa win that JMM if he's smart he will capture a 4th title in 4 divisions and will be the 1st Mexican to ever do this.
At 140 I think he beats any of the title holders.
Edwin Valero is a poor's man version of Manny Pacquiao. He's just like Manny Pacquiao was in the late 1990's but even worse, the only advantage he has over Manny Pacquiao is power.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
He's fighting Presscot on the 25th of July.
Should he win that I hope he gets a shot at Marquez. That would be a great fight. I know most would have Valero as a big underdog in that fight personally I think he knocks Marquez out inside 8 rounds.
Other than that he's one dimensional the way he comes forward, and his punch variety is one dimensional. He's so wide open infact everytime i've seen him, i expect him to get clocked and KO'ed because his defense is that bad.
I honestly don't know how you can think a poor man's version, of Manny Pacquiao could ever beat JMM at this stage. Considering JMM went pretty much even with a much better version of Edwin Valero, and the reason he was knocked down against Manny Pacquiao, was because of the speed not the power so much, which Edwin Valero doesn't have.
As for Joel Casamayor i think your forgetting Joel Casamayor was rusty against Santa Cruz, and didn't take the fight all that serious. Joel Casamayor was much better agaisnt JMM than he was against Santa Cruz. And was much better prepared.
And no offense Bilbo but i felt you've wrote off Juan Diaz a bit here, and not giving him the respect he deserves. Lets remember he was borderline top 10 P4P before the loss to Nate Campbell, and was considered the best Lightweight in the world.
Yes he isn't perfect and is a bit on the one dimensional side, and he doesn't seem to deal with getting cut that well. But boy does he bring it and considering JMM had to throw as many punches as he has ever done in a fight, shows he's still very much got it.
And lastly i thought he handled Jimrex Jaca without much trouble except for the cut, but he still won pretty much every round and KO'ed him in impressive fashion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBEdwin Valero is a poor's man version of Manny Pacquiao. He's just like Manny Pacquiao was in the late 1990's but even worse, the only advantage he has over Manny Pacquiao is power.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Bethnal Green
He's fighting Presscot on the 25th of July.
Should he win that I hope he gets a shot at Marquez. That would be a great fight. I know most would have Valero as a big underdog in that fight personally I think he knocks Marquez out inside 8 rounds.
Other than that he's one dimensional the way he comes forward, and his punch variety is one dimensional. He's so wide open infact everytime i've seen him, i expect him to get clocked and KO'ed because his defense is that bad.
I honestly don't know how you can think a poor man's version, of Manny Pacquiao could ever beat JMM at this stage. Considering JMM went pretty much even with a much better version of Edwin Valero, and the reason he was knocked down against Manny Pacquiao, was because of the speed not the power so much, which Edwin Valero doesn't have.
As for Joel Casamayor i think your forgetting Joel Casamayor was rusty against Santa Cruz, and didn't take the fight all that serious. Joel Casamayor was much better agaisnt JMM than he was against Santa Cruz. And was much better prepared.
And no offense Bilbo but i felt you've wrote off Juan Diaz a bit here, and not giving him the respect he deserves. Lets remember he was borderline top 10 P4P before the loss to Nate Campbell, and was considered the best Lightweight in the world.
Yes he isn't perfect and is a bit on the one dimensional side, and he doesn't seem to deal with getting cut that well. But boy does he bring it and considering JMM had to throw as many punches as he has ever done in a fight, shows he's still very much got it.
And lastly i thought he handled Jimrex Jaca without much trouble except for the cut, but he still won pretty much every round and KO'ed him in impressive fashion.
I don't think Valero is a poor man's Pacquaio. He has skills, his power is very impressive. I'm not saying he's as good as Manny, or Marquez for that matter but he's so powerful and his youth and aggression will win the fight for him.
Juan Diaz we know has very little power, yet he was all over Marquez for much of that fight. If Valero hits Marquez with those punches (which he will because lets face it Barrera dropped him, Pacquiao dropped him, Casamayor went toe to toe with him) he's getting stopped.
Valero will make it big this year.
I would like to see Valero V Khan or Katsidis this year!!
He would have no problem fighting in the UK or Australia?
Edwin Valero has shown skills in sparring sessions, but i've not seen much of his skillsets in a real pro fight. He just looks for the KO at all times, and he looks sloppy, one dimensional and very hittable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBEdwin Valero is a poor's man version of Manny Pacquiao. He's just like Manny Pacquiao was in the late 1990's but even worse, the only advantage he has over Manny Pacquiao is power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Other than that he's one dimensional the way he comes forward, and his punch variety is one dimensional. He's so wide open infact everytime i've seen him, i expect him to get clocked and KO'ed because his defense is that bad.
I honestly don't know how you can think a poor man's version, of Manny Pacquiao could ever beat JMM at this stage. Considering JMM went pretty much even with a much better version of Edwin Valero, and the reason he was knocked down against Manny Pacquiao, was because of the speed not the power so much, which Edwin Valero doesn't have.
As for Joel Casamayor i think your forgetting Joel Casamayor was rusty against Santa Cruz, and didn't take the fight all that serious. Joel Casamayor was much better agaisnt JMM than he was against Santa Cruz. And was much better prepared.
And no offense Bilbo but i felt you've wrote off Juan Diaz a bit here, and not giving him the respect he deserves. Lets remember he was borderline top 10 P4P before the loss to Nate Campbell, and was considered the best Lightweight in the world.
Yes he isn't perfect and is a bit on the one dimensional side, and he doesn't seem to deal with getting cut that well. But boy does he bring it and considering JMM had to throw as many punches as he has ever done in a fight, shows he's still very much got it.
And lastly i thought he handled Jimrex Jaca without much trouble except for the cut, but he still won pretty much every round and KO'ed him in impressive fashion.
I don't think Valero is a poor man's Pacquaio. He has skills, his power is very impressive. I'm not saying he's as good as Manny, or Marquez for that matter but he's so powerful and his youth and aggression will win the fight for him.
Juan Diaz we know has very little power, yet he was all over Marquez for much of that fight. If Valero hits Marquez with those punches (which he will because lets face it Barrera dropped him, Pacquiao dropped him, Casamayor went toe to toe with him) he's getting stopped.
Valero will make it big this year.
I agree he can hit and he has proven that stopping 2 good names, but what else do you really see in him really ? to me he just looks like a young raw Manny Pacquiao with power, without the speed or skills.
Juan Diaz may not have much power, but he still has some good skills. And he closes the distance very well and he has super quick hands, and he is a swarmer.
Its very hard to stop a very good swarming fighter from being all over you, remember even Floyd Mayweather Jr had some troubles with a similar fighter in Jesus Chavez.
I think all that fight showed is that JMM can lift the pace, and he can fight at a higher pace than everybody expected including me at his age. I don't think he's ready for the taking yet.
And i honestly think JMM will school Edwin Valero, im not writing Edwin Valero totally off i think Edwin Valero has a punchers chance, but surely JMM is the huge favorite considering the opposition he's been in against. And all the obstacles he's over come.