As weird as this sounds, I'm disappointed Froch won on Saturday

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

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I really don't think it was all that bad BZKFN.

The only really bad round for him was round 3. Aside from that he didn't have much more problems than Calzaghe did against Kessler.

Imagine if Kessler had had a big round and dropped Calzaghe early the scorecards would have been similar after the first five rounds.

From round 6 onwards it was a mostly a Froch fight, I had Froch winning 6,8,10,11 and 12.

He made mistakes early on mainly I suspect due to the huge step up in class, nerves and being suprised by Taylors speed and accuracy.

But he got better and better as the fight went on.

People on here are judging his entire career now off the back mainly of one terrible round as if he's always going to fight as badly as he did in round 3 and that forever more his only hope of winning fights will be from a come behind knockout.

What bemuses me is those who still say Taylor would be favourite to win a rematch assuming that Taylor can iron out all of his frailty problems between now and rematch but that Froch is doomed to forever fight like he did in those first 5 rounds.


In short, even at his most sloppy and most careless, against a faster, slicker opponent he still came out on top.

He was my dark horse in the entire division before the Taylor fight and he is even more so now.

I'd be far more worried about a fighter capitulating in the last rounds like Taylor and Bute did, or of Kelly Pavlik going down without a fight against Bernard Hopkins than I would a raw, powerful fighter who got caught repeatedly and early by a far slicker boxer but who still stuck to his task, came back and knocked his opponent out in his own back yard.

Froch has so far done what no other 168 lb champ has done, step up to elite class and win.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

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I really don't think it was all that bad BZKFN.

The only really bad round for him was round 3. Aside from that he didn't have much more problems than Calzaghe did against Kessler.

Imagine if Kessler had had a big round and dropped Calzaghe early the scorecards would have been similar after the first five rounds.

From round 6 onwards it was a mostly a Froch fight, I had Froch winning 6,8,10,11 and 12.

He made mistakes early on mainly I suspect due to the huge step up in class, nerves and being suprised by Taylors speed and accuracy.

But he got better and better as the fight went on.

People on here are judging his entire career now off the back mainly of one terrible round as if he's always going to fight as badly as he did in round 3 and that forever more his only hope of winning fights will be from a come behind knockout.

What bemuses me is those who still say Taylor would be favourite to win a rematch assuming that Taylor can iron out all of his frailty problems between now and rematch but that Froch is doomed to forever fight like he did in those first 5 rounds.


In short, even at his most sloppy and most careless, against a faster, slicker opponent he still came out on top.

He was my dark horse in the entire division before the Taylor fight and he is even more so now.

I'd be far more worried about a fighter capitulating in the last rounds like Taylor and Bute did, or of Kelly Pavlik going down without a fight against Bernard Hopkins than I would a raw, powerful fighter who got caught repeatedly and early by a far slicker boxer but who still stuck to his task, came back and knocked his opponent out in his own back yard.

Froch has so far done what no other 168 lb champ has done, step up to elite class and win.

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I thought Taylor stole round 11. Froch often had rounds in the bag and then got caught by some big shots. I found it a little alarming that he wasn't learning from his mistakes throughout the fight and was walking onto shots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging his whole career on it. I just felt in his aftermath interview he was cocky, arrogant and didn't admit that he was nowhere near his best. I just worry he'll revert to this type from now on. Look at Hatton. They came up with a style to beat Tszyu and then his next 5 fights Graham had Hatton trying to maul every opponent he faced. I just felt he was poor on Saturday, and his power and Taylor's stamina totally bailed him out. I just hope he privately admits to his shortcomings and works on them for future, because you can't just walk in with your hands down when your reactions are as slow as his are.

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

I'm really hoping Bilbo reads this, as judging by previous posts on the forum, he appears to be a big fan of Carl Froch. Same goes for Tam.

First off, let me start by saying that I'm a fan of what Carl brings to the ring, and have believed for a while he has what it takes to make it at world level. However, while I was watching the fight on Saturday, while I believed Carl could knock Taylor out, by the last round I was hoping he wouldn't pull it out. The fight was nearly a disaster for him, as he abandoned all his fundamentals, kept his hands down, didn't seem to listen to his corners instructions and seemed to miss alot. His aftermath interview suggested he always felt he was ahead in the fight, yet going into the last round I had him 4 points down. He was beaten to the punch most of the night and my concern for the future is that because he pulled out the win, he won't learn from his mistakes. Carl's a great fighter, but there are harder hitters at 168 than Taylor who don't have stamina issues and he can't rely on this type of performance forever. Calzaghe would have schooled him and made him look stupid. He really needs to learn to move his head and work on his defensive skills.

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I really don't think it was all that bad BZKFN.

The only really bad round for him was round 3. Aside from that he didn't have much more problems than Calzaghe did against Kessler.

Imagine if Kessler had had a big round and dropped Calzaghe early the scorecards would have been similar after the first five rounds.

From round 6 onwards it was a mostly a Froch fight, I had Froch winning 6,8,10,11 and 12.

He made mistakes early on mainly I suspect due to the huge step up in class, nerves and being suprised by Taylors speed and accuracy.

But he got better and better as the fight went on.

People on here are judging his entire career now off the back mainly of one terrible round as if he's always going to fight as badly as he did in round 3 and that forever more his only hope of winning fights will be from a come behind knockout.

What bemuses me is those who still say Taylor would be favourite to win a rematch assuming that Taylor can iron out all of his frailty problems between now and rematch but that Froch is doomed to forever fight like he did in those first 5 rounds.


In short, even at his most sloppy and most careless, against a faster, slicker opponent he still came out on top.

He was my dark horse in the entire division before the Taylor fight and he is even more so now.

I'd be far more worried about a fighter capitulating in the last rounds like Taylor and Bute did, or of Kelly Pavlik going down without a fight against Bernard Hopkins than I would a raw, powerful fighter who got caught repeatedly and early by a far slicker boxer but who still stuck to his task, came back and knocked his opponent out in his own back yard.

Froch has so far done what no other 168 lb champ has done, step up to elite class and win.

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I thought Taylor stole round 11. Froch often had rounds in the bag and then got caught by some big shots. I found it a little alarming that he wasn't learning from his mistakes throughout the fight and was walking onto shots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging his whole career on it. I just felt in his aftermath interview he was cocky, arrogant and didn't admit that he was nowhere near his best. I just worry he'll revert to this type from now on. Look at Hatton. They came up with a style to beat Tszyu and then his next 5 fights Graham had Hatton trying to maul every opponent he faced. I just felt he was poor on Saturday, and his power and Taylor's stamina totally bailed him out. I just hope he privately admits to his shortcomings and works on them for future, because you can't just walk in with your hands down when your reactions are as slow as his are.

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I imagine he won't likely change that much. He does it deliberately, he likes to lure opponents in and then catch them with his monster uppercuts. Taylor's speed gave him problems and it was a hard style matchup for him but he came through it.

I don't see anyone else at 168 who is as complete a boxer as Taylor so I don't think he will be outboxed as much as he was those 5 rounds.

Froch seems to fight to the level of his opposition, he's looked poor in several fights, Magee was outboxing him early, Robin Reid caught him several times, that's just the way he fights I guess.

He's not going to be looking at a 46-0 career like Joe Calzaghe, he's got definite flaws, but he's got as good a chance as any of unifying the 168 lb division and possibly moving up to challenge at 175.

I only see Kessler really giving him too much trouble, I'm extremely confident he handles everyone else.

Lets judge him more on his next fight i think the nerves and occasion got to him to much this time but bottom line is he got the win.

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

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I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

I am happier that Froch won rather than Taylor! Froch ain't the best fighter at 168 by a long shot & he's sure to run into trouble in the not to distant future but it will be a fun run all the way!

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

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I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

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I'm really not sold on Bute. I don't think he has anything power wise to trouble Froch. He seldom KO's guys any more and has been taken into the late rounds by sub par opponents like James Obede Toney, an ancient William Joppy and Sergey Tatevosyan.

Toney was blown away in 4 rounds by Roman Karmazin, Carl Froch himself took Tatevosyan apart in 2 rounds whereas he went the full 12 with Bute.

the Zuniga KO is probably his most impressive performance. No way Berrio would have hung in for 11 rounds with Carl Froch, he would have had him out within 4 or 5.

Bute simply hasn't fought a decent opponent yet. Andrade has been his only test and he almost fell apart at the end.

He reminds me a bit of Marcus Beyer, and I think Froch, Kessler, even Allan Green will bowl him over.

I'd be interested to see how Bute would fare against Pascal, great domestic fight imo. Personally I think Pascal beats him as well.

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

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Yeah I agree, both Kessler and Green are well capable of beating Froch.

I really rate Alan Green, I think he's going to be a world champ sometime soon.

The guy has tremendous knockout power and great skills. He often looks spectacular in stopping overmatched opponents.

He still hasn't had a defining win though and lost his first significant fight. However the weight drop and colon issues mean I overlook that. I think a 100 percent Alan Green smokes Edison Miranda, although to be honest I see everyone from Bute, Andrade, Taylor, Kessler, Ward, Dirrel, Froch, even Pascal stopping Miranda. He's simply too easy to hit and doesn't have a chin to withstand what's coming back. He also can't fight going backwards so is easy to figure out.

I expect Ward to beat him easily.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I'm not sold on him, I don't think he looked super great against Pascal either.

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I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

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I'm really not sold on Bute. I don't think he has anything power wise to trouble Froch. He seldom KO's guys any more and has been taken into the late rounds by sub par opponents like James Obede Toney, an ancient William Joppy and Sergey Tatevosyan.

Toney was blown away in 4 rounds by Roman Karmazin, Carl Froch himself took Tatevosyan apart in 2 rounds whereas he went the full 12 with Bute.

the Zuniga KO is probably his most impressive performance. No way Berrio would have hung in for 11 rounds with Carl Froch, he would have had him out within 4 or 5.

Bute simply hasn't fought a decent opponent yet. Andrade has been his only test and he almost fell apart at the end.

He reminds me a bit of Marcus Beyer, and I think Froch, Kessler, even Allan Green will bowl him over.

I'd be interested to see how Bute would fare against Pascal, great domestic fight imo. Personally I think Pascal beats him as well.

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Maybe you are including him in that statement, but don't forget that Bute dominated Sakio Bika for 12 rounds. 2/3 judges had him winning 10 of 12 rounds. In the Andrade fight, he won every single round until the last one. He is a pure boxer and a southpaw who has decent height and reach for 168. Bute dominated Tatevosyan all 12 rounds before Froch beat him. Moreover, he knocked out Kabrery Salem who took Calzaghe 12 rounds to finish.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

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Yeah I agree, both Kessler and Green are well capable of beating Froch.

I really rate Alan Green, I think he's going to be a world champ sometime soon.

The guy has tremendous knockout power and great skills. He often looks spectacular in stopping overmatched opponents.

He still hasn't had a defining win though and lost his first significant fight. However the weight drop and colon issues mean I overlook that. I think a 100 percent Alan Green smokes Edison Miranda, although to be honest I see everyone from Bute, Andrade, Taylor, Kessler, Ward, Dirrel, Froch, even Pascal stopping Miranda. He's simply too easy to hit and doesn't have a chin to withstand what's coming back. He also can't fight going backwards so is easy to figure out.

I expect Ward to beat him easily.

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I rate Green too, I was disappointed with his performance vs Miranda but his health issues may have played a part. I always wanted to see a Green/ Mack fight when they were both at 168 & undefeated.

I also think Ward boxes cycles around Miranda!

But back to Froch, hes a solid guy in a solid division & will be tough for anyone around the weight!!!

I am glad Froch won, Taylor put up a very good fight and would have beaten most super middles in the world on that performance.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

I thought he was great against Pascal. What youwould consider a rocky moment for most, in difficult times against Pascal he took what Jean had and came back with better. I agree with Bilbo about Kessler, but I think Bute is a 50-50 fight. Bute would dominate him early, but if he rides the early storm he can come on late like against Taylor. Andrade would be tough too. Andrade is not a special fighter but he's tough and Froch couldn't just walk onto those shots all night. I'm very interested to see Froch's next performance to see if he can kick on from this with a better performance.

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I'm really not sold on Bute. I don't think he has anything power wise to trouble Froch. He seldom KO's guys any more and has been taken into the late rounds by sub par opponents like James Obede Toney, an ancient William Joppy and Sergey Tatevosyan.

Toney was blown away in 4 rounds by Roman Karmazin, Carl Froch himself took Tatevosyan apart in 2 rounds whereas he went the full 12 with Bute.

the Zuniga KO is probably his most impressive performance. No way Berrio would have hung in for 11 rounds with Carl Froch, he would have had him out within 4 or 5.

Bute simply hasn't fought a decent opponent yet. Andrade has been his only test and he almost fell apart at the end.

He reminds me a bit of Marcus Beyer, and I think Froch, Kessler, even Allan Green will bowl him over.

I'd be interested to see how Bute would fare against Pascal, great domestic fight imo. Personally I think Pascal beats him as well.

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Maybe you are including him in that statement, but don't forget that Bute dominated Sakio Bika for 12 rounds. 2/3 judges had him winning 10 of 12 rounds. In the Andrade fight, he won every single round until the last one. He is a pure boxer and a southpaw who has decent height and reach for 168. Bute dominated Tatevosyan all 12 rounds before Froch beat him. Moreover, he knocked out Kabrery Salem who took Calzaghe 12 rounds to finish.

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Yeah Bika was a decent win I guess, I don't see him as world class but he's a hard nights work for the world class if that makes sense.

I know Salem had been out for a year before he fough Bute but a ko win is a ko win.

I still don't see him as a hard hitter though, although he definitely has boxing ability and like you say beat Tatevosyan easily.

The two need to fight so we can settle this debate once and for all. I'm going all in on a Froch KO, I think he really puts a hurting on Bute, but I agree if he can't get to Lucian, Bute is definitely the better boxer and will likely coast to a hard fought but decisive points win.

But Froch is a Brit, he's my favourite fighter and the fight hasn't even been made yet so I can afford to be bullish ;D

There were no losers on Saturday night.

Taylor boxed better than he has done in years.

It's a shame he was in there against someone as tough, determined and strong as Froch though.

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Originally Posted by Clanger

There were no losers on Saturday night.

Taylor boxed better than he has done in years.

It's a shame he was in there against someone as tough, determined and strong as Froch though.

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Your right, Taylor fought well & I was surprised The Ring dropped him all the way down to 9.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Those two guys you mention there Bilbo, Kessler & Green would imo be a handful for Froch also. The great thing for me is that at 168 apart from Kessler (whose not unbeatable) there isn't really a dominant guy. Everyone can potentially defeat everyone else on their night & that makes for an exciting division & explosive match-ups!!!

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Yeah I agree, both Kessler and Green are well capable of beating Froch.

I really rate Alan Green, I think he's going to be a world champ sometime soon.

The guy has tremendous knockout power and great skills. He often looks spectacular in stopping overmatched opponents.

He still hasn't had a defining win though and lost his first significant fight. However the weight drop and colon issues mean I overlook that. I think a 100 percent Alan Green smokes Edison Miranda, although to be honest I see everyone from Bute, Andrade, Taylor, Kessler, Ward, Dirrel, Froch, even Pascal stopping Miranda. He's simply too easy to hit and doesn't have a chin to withstand what's coming back. He also can't fight going backwards so is easy to figure out.

I expect Ward to beat him easily.

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I rate Green too, I was disappointed with his performance vs Miranda but his health issues may have played a part. I always wanted to see a Green/ Mack fight when they were both at 168 & undefeated.

I also think Ward boxes cycles around Miranda!

But back to Froch, hes a solid guy in a solid division & will be tough for anyone around the weight!!!

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Nobody has boxed cycles around Miranda yet. He has been overpowered, but yet to be outboxed. Ward doesnt have the power to do this and doesnt have the heart or chin to stay on his feet. Others may beat Miranda, but I dont think Ward has the ingredients to do it.

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Originally Posted by Pantera

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I agree, both Kessler and Green are well capable of beating Froch.

I really rate Alan Green, I think he's going to be a world champ sometime soon.

The guy has tremendous knockout power and great skills. He often looks spectacular in stopping overmatched opponents.

He still hasn't had a defining win though and lost his first significant fight. However the weight drop and colon issues mean I overlook that. I think a 100 percent Alan Green smokes Edison Miranda, although to be honest I see everyone from Bute, Andrade, Taylor, Kessler, Ward, Dirrel, Froch, even Pascal stopping Miranda. He's simply too easy to hit and doesn't have a chin to withstand what's coming back. He also can't fight going backwards so is easy to figure out.

I expect Ward to beat him easily.

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I rate Green too, I was disappointed with his performance vs Miranda but his health issues may have played a part. I always wanted to see a Green/ Mack fight when they were both at 168 & undefeated.

I also think Ward boxes cycles around Miranda!

But back to Froch, hes a solid guy in a solid division & will be tough for anyone around the weight!!!

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Nobody has boxed cycles around Miranda yet. He has been overpowered, but yet to be outboxed. Ward doesnt have the power to do this and doesnt have the heart or chin to stay on his feet. Others may beat Miranda, but I dont think Ward has the ingredients to do it.

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Well he hasn't faced Ward yet & you know Ward can box!

I was very disappointed Taylor lost. I thought it was shitty that Froch could add his name to his resume, after hiding in a fucking cave in Britain for so long. I do believe you have seen the best of Carl.

Having said that, I thought Froch did well. If I was Taylor I would have taken a knee at sometime in the last round and hoped to have biased judges. But I don't really think that would have mattered either.

Also, Lopez was huge against Jerry. Lopez looked like 15 pounds bigger.

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I was very disappointed Taylor lost. I thought it was shitty that Froch could add his name to his resume, after hiding in a fucking cave in Britain for so long. I do believe you have seen the best of Carl.

Having said that, I thought Froch did well. If I was Taylor I would have taken a knee at sometime in the last round and hoped to have biased judges. But I don't really think that would have mattered either.

Also, Lopez was huge against Jerry. Lopez looked like 15 pounds bigger.

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Yeah Taylor needs to learn how to clinch when hurt, it could have been the difference between winning & getting knocked out!!!

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I was very disappointed Taylor lost. I thought it was shitty that Froch could add his name to his resume, after hiding in a fucking cave in Britain for so long. I do believe you have seen the best of Carl.

Having said that, I thought Froch did well. If I was Taylor I would have taken a knee at sometime in the last round and hoped to have biased judges. But I don't really think that would have mattered either.

Also, Lopez was huge against Jerry. Lopez looked like 15 pounds bigger.

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Yeah Taylor needs to learn how to clinch when hurt, it could have been the difference between winning & getting knocked out!!!

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I just got on here today, have been away and don't want to read all the threads, but does anyone know what the cards looked like?

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I was very disappointed Taylor lost. I thought it was shitty that Froch could add his name to his resume, after hiding in a fucking cave in Britain for so long. I do believe you have seen the best of Carl.

Having said that, I thought Froch did well. If I was Taylor I would have taken a knee at sometime in the last round and hoped to have biased judges. But I don't really think that would have mattered either.

Also, Lopez was huge against Jerry. Lopez looked like 15 pounds bigger.

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Yeah Taylor needs to learn how to clinch when hurt, it could have been the difference between winning & getting knocked out!!!

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I just got on here today, have been away and don't want to read all the threads, but does anyone know what the cards looked like?

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106-102 Taylor I think

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Yeah Taylor needs to learn how to clinch when hurt, it could have been the difference between winning & getting knocked out!!!

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I just got on here today, have been away and don't want to read all the threads, but does anyone know what the cards looked like?

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106-102 Taylor I think

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106-102 Taylor on two cards and 106-102 Froch on the other

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

I just got on here today, have been away and don't want to read all the threads, but does anyone know what the cards looked like?

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106-102 Taylor I think

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106-102 Taylor on two cards and 106-102 Froch on the other

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How that 3rd judge had it for Froch is anyone's guess!!!

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

106-102 Taylor I think

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106-102 Taylor on two cards and 106-102 Froch on the other

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How that 3rd judge had it for Froch is anyone's guess!!!

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Yeah it was a little off, interestingly though all of the press row at the fight, had it gone the distance would have had either Froch winning or at worst a draw.

It wasn't nearly as one sided as people are making out. It's easy to make a case for Froch winning rounds 2, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 and of course 12. If he would have won round 3 instead of being knocked down the impression of him wouldn't have been nearly as negative as it has been, it really was just one terrible round, and a couple of great Taylor flurries, the end of the 7th and I believe the 11th being the most notable.

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

Lets judge him more on his next fight i think the nerves and occasion got to him to much this time but bottom line is he got the win.

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Was just going to say the exact same thing, granted Froch isn't exactly the most technically honed/tight fighter but I think the size/level of the occasion really got to him.

He looks nervous, almost scared before the fight... He's went from fighting people relativly unknown outside of the boxing circuits in his home town (let alone country) to fighting a big marquee name in America, a top (if past prime) world class fighter and former undisputed MW champ with two wins over B Hopkins.

After KOing Taylor I can't really see him having any sort of nerves with the other top SMW so we should judge him properly off his next bout.

I think Froch sees himself as an equal or more to the likes of Bute/Kessler... but what ever he fronts surely he'd have to have seen Taylor's pedigree and know that despite Pascal being a solid fighter he was a relative unkown quantity versus Taylor.

Nerves shouldn't be a factor next time out and I just hope that whatever he says to the T.V. Cameras he looks very hard at the portions of the fight that he lost and learns from it.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

Lets judge him more on his next fight i think the nerves and occasion got to him to much this time but bottom line is he got the win.

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Was just going to say the exact same thing, granted Froch isn't exactly the most technically honed/tight fighter but I think the size/level of the occasion really got to him.

He looks nervous, almost scared before the fight... He's went from fighting people relativly unknown outside of the boxing circuits in his home town (let alone country) to fighting a big marquee name in America, a top (if past prime) world class fighter and former undisputed MW champ with two wins over B Hopkins.

After KOing Taylor I can't really see him having any sort of nerves with the other top SMW so we should judge him properly off his next bout.

I think Froch sees himself as an equal or more to the likes of Bute/Kessler... but what ever he fronts surely he'd have to have seen Taylor's pedigree and know that despite Pascal being a solid fighter he was a relative unkown quantity versus Taylor.

Nerves shouldn't be a factor next time out and I just hope that whatever he says to the T.V. Cameras he looks very hard at the portions of the fight that he lost and learns from it.

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Yeah even the great Calzaghe stuttered stateside against the top names and was dropped in both fights. The pressure of fighting a legend in front of a partisan crowd on the biggest stage has to be extreme.

Not many fighters win mega fights away from home, in fact Calzaghe and Haye are the only ones I can think of. Hatton lost when he faced Floyd, his other American opp hasn't been top tier and he's had many fights in the US now to aclimatise.

Tyszu lost in England, Mclellen lost in England, Cordoba lost in Ireland, Kessler lost in the UK.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any fighter who has gone overseas to fight a massive name opponent and won without at least getting floored in recent times?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

Lets judge him more on his next fight i think the nerves and occasion got to him to much this time but bottom line is he got the win.

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Was just going to say the exact same thing, granted Froch isn't exactly the most technically honed/tight fighter but I think the size/level of the occasion really got to him.

He looks nervous, almost scared before the fight... He's went from fighting people relativly unknown outside of the boxing circuits in his home town (let alone country) to fighting a big marquee name in America, a top (if past prime) world class fighter and former undisputed MW champ with two wins over B Hopkins.

After KOing Taylor I can't really see him having any sort of nerves with the other top SMW so we should judge him properly off his next bout.

I think Froch sees himself as an equal or more to the likes of Bute/Kessler... but what ever he fronts surely he'd have to have seen Taylor's pedigree and know that despite Pascal being a solid fighter he was a relative unkown quantity versus Taylor.

Nerves shouldn't be a factor next time out and I just hope that whatever he says to the T.V. Cameras he looks very hard at the portions of the fight that he lost and learns from it.

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Yeah even the great Calzaghe stuttered stateside against the top names and was dropped in both fights. The pressure of fighting a legend in front of a partisan crowd on the biggest stage has to be extreme.

Not many fighters win mega fights away from home, in fact Calzaghe and Haye are the only ones I can think of. Hatton lost when he faced Floyd, his other American opp hasn't been top tier and he's had many fights in the US now to aclimatise.

Tyszu lost in England, Mclellen lost in England, Cordoba lost in Ireland, Kessler lost in the UK.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any fighter who has gone overseas to fight a massive name opponent and won without at least getting floored in recent times?

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Off the top of my head I can only think of Arthur Abraham v Edison Miranda, but Miranda is by no means a massive name.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Was just going to say the exact same thing, granted Froch isn't exactly the most technically honed/tight fighter but I think the size/level of the occasion really got to him.

He looks nervous, almost scared before the fight... He's went from fighting people relativly unknown outside of the boxing circuits in his home town (let alone country) to fighting a big marquee name in America, a top (if past prime) world class fighter and former undisputed MW champ with two wins over B Hopkins.

After KOing Taylor I can't really see him having any sort of nerves with the other top SMW so we should judge him properly off his next bout.

I think Froch sees himself as an equal or more to the likes of Bute/Kessler... but what ever he fronts surely he'd have to have seen Taylor's pedigree and know that despite Pascal being a solid fighter he was a relative unkown quantity versus Taylor.

Nerves shouldn't be a factor next time out and I just hope that whatever he says to the T.V. Cameras he looks very hard at the portions of the fight that he lost and learns from it.

---

Yeah even the great Calzaghe stuttered stateside against the top names and was dropped in both fights. The pressure of fighting a legend in front of a partisan crowd on the biggest stage has to be extreme.

Not many fighters win mega fights away from home, in fact Calzaghe and Haye are the only ones I can think of. Hatton lost when he faced Floyd, his other American opp hasn't been top tier and he's had many fights in the US now to aclimatise.

Tyszu lost in England, Mclellen lost in England, Cordoba lost in Ireland, Kessler lost in the UK.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any fighter who has gone overseas to fight a massive name opponent and won without at least getting floored in recent times?

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Off the top of my head I can only think of Arthur Abraham v Edison Miranda, but Miranda is by no means a massive name.

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Yeah good call on Abraham Lefty. I guess with having already fought him once and having seen Miranda dismantled by Pavlik he was more confident going in.

Froch had never been in with a top level opponent and until you have it must be in the back of your mind whether you are good enough.

In Abraham's mind I'm sure he was extremely confident as he won the last fight with a broken jaw in the 5th round. If Miranda couldn't stop him under those circumstances I presume he felt that he could never stop him.

I love Artur Abraham by the way, one of my favourite fighters, a warrior!

I was at the fight. 4000 screaming fans. Loud as hell. It was bonkers. Easily one of the top fights I've had the pleasure of attending.

Hats off to British fight fans or at least Froch/Nottingham fans. With the constant drunken singing, they made the atmosphere tremendous. Not to mention, they were clearly outnumbered and stuck to their guns even after that 3rd round and Americans screaming at them - "he's no Calzaghe" and "U-S-A, U-S-A." And I know Froch is no Hatton or Calzaghe in terms of drawing power, but Nottingham represented. I sat next to six Froch fans who were dressed in Cobra shirts and cheered and sang drunk songs nonstop. I have to ask, however, what does "Smoke his Boots" mean? As in, "Carl, Smoke his Boots!" Either way, maybe it was just these six guys, and although I was rooting for Taylor (loudly), they were just as adament about their "Frochy." We shooks hands when the fight was finished.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I was at the fight. 4000 screaming fans. Loud as hell. It was bonkers. Easily one of the top fights I've had the pleasure of attending.

Hats off to British fight fans or at least Froch/Nottingham fans. With the constant drunken singing, they made the atmosphere tremendous. Not to mention, they were clearly outnumbered and stuck to their guns even after that 3rd round and Americans screaming at them - "he's no Calzaghe" and "U-S-A, U-S-A." And I know Froch is no Hatton or Calzaghe in terms of drawing power, but Nottingham represented. I sat next to six Froch fans who were dressed in Cobra shirts and cheered and sang drunk songs nonstop. I have to ask, however, what does "Smoke his Boots" mean? As in, "Carl, Smoke his Boots!" Either way, maybe it was just these six guys, and although I was rooting for Taylor (loudly), they were just as adament about their "Frochy." We shooks hands when the fight was finished.

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Slang term for smash him, beat him up etc. Never used up in North England though.

think most will agree froch knows he cant out box the top fighters. and he wants that big payday before he gets his first lose and his star fades away .thats why hes trying to get joe to come back bigest payday and it aint no same in loseing to the very best.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

Lets judge him more on his next fight i think the nerves and occasion got to him to much this time but bottom line is he got the win.

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Was just going to say the exact same thing, granted Froch isn't exactly the most technically honed/tight fighter but I think the size/level of the occasion really got to him.

He looks nervous, almost scared before the fight... He's went from fighting people relativly unknown outside of the boxing circuits in his home town (let alone country) to fighting a big marquee name in America, a top (if past prime) world class fighter and former undisputed MW champ with two wins over B Hopkins.

After KOing Taylor I can't really see him having any sort of nerves with the other top SMW so we should judge him properly off his next bout.

I think Froch sees himself as an equal or more to the likes of Bute/Kessler... but what ever he fronts surely he'd have to have seen Taylor's pedigree and know that despite Pascal being a solid fighter he was a relative unkown quantity versus Taylor.

Nerves shouldn't be a factor next time out and I just hope that whatever he says to the T.V. Cameras he looks very hard at the portions of the fight that he lost and learns from it.

---

Yeah even the great Calzaghe stuttered stateside against the top names and was dropped in both fights. The pressure of fighting a legend in front of a partisan crowd on the biggest stage has to be extreme.

Not many fighters win mega fights away from home, in fact Calzaghe and Haye are the only ones I can think of. Hatton lost when he faced Floyd, his other American opp hasn't been top tier and he's had many fights in the US now to aclimatise.

Tyszu lost in England, Mclellen lost in England, Cordoba lost in Ireland, Kessler lost in the UK.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any fighter who has gone overseas to fight a massive name opponent and won without at least getting floored in recent times?

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Maybe not top level, but I didn't see Luevano beating Cook, nevermind flooring him 5 times in his hometown to win a world title. Considering Cook had never lost and was a bookies favourite I think thats a pretty good example.

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Was just going to say the exact same thing, granted Froch isn't exactly the most technically honed/tight fighter but I think the size/level of the occasion really got to him.

He looks nervous, almost scared before the fight... He's went from fighting people relativly unknown outside of the boxing circuits in his home town (let alone country) to fighting a big marquee name in America, a top (if past prime) world class fighter and former undisputed MW champ with two wins over B Hopkins.

After KOing Taylor I can't really see him having any sort of nerves with the other top SMW so we should judge him properly off his next bout.

I think Froch sees himself as an equal or more to the likes of Bute/Kessler... but what ever he fronts surely he'd have to have seen Taylor's pedigree and know that despite Pascal being a solid fighter he was a relative unkown quantity versus Taylor.

Nerves shouldn't be a factor next time out and I just hope that whatever he says to the T.V. Cameras he looks very hard at the portions of the fight that he lost and learns from it.

---

Yeah even the great Calzaghe stuttered stateside against the top names and was dropped in both fights. The pressure of fighting a legend in front of a partisan crowd on the biggest stage has to be extreme.

Not many fighters win mega fights away from home, in fact Calzaghe and Haye are the only ones I can think of. Hatton lost when he faced Floyd, his other American opp hasn't been top tier and he's had many fights in the US now to aclimatise.

Tyszu lost in England, Mclellen lost in England, Cordoba lost in Ireland, Kessler lost in the UK.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any fighter who has gone overseas to fight a massive name opponent and won without at least getting floored in recent times?

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Maybe not top level, but I didn't see Luevano beating Cook, nevermind flooring him 5 times in his hometown to win a world title. Considering Cook had never lost and was a bookies favourite I think thats a pretty good example.

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Yeah good call, that was a good performance that.