Opinions on fights that confuse you

Not even so much official decisions that you see as bad, everybody's got to have some contrarian opinions on certain fights, these are, among others, mine.

Mosley-De La Hoya II- I actually agreed with the decision but I could see how people might think Oscar won, its this insistence by some that he was robbed that confuses me. He at best won a close decision. Shane was clearly landing the harder punches and Oscar, as usual, got too much credit for flurries that didn't really land

Bernard Hopkins-Jermain Taylor II- I think Hopkins clearly won this fight.
A lot of people seem not to. The first fight is more debatable, Bernard clearly waited too long although its not like Taylor was doing much. But the second fight is almost to the point of not even being debatable to me, Bernard clearly won a majority of the rounds.

JMM-Barrera-I've been a fan of Barrera's for a long long time but he clearly lost this fight IMO. If I remember correctly I wasn't really able to post on Saddo's around this fight so I remember being shocked by how close people thought it was or that some people thought he won. I just don't see it.

Anyway, thoughts?

I also don't see how you could score Barrera-Morales I for Morales but I haven't seen it in a while.

I thought the outrage over the Vernon Forrest-Ike Quartey scoring was a little overdone.

What they did to TM's fighter in Trinidad though was horrific.

I must admit to not being able to see how B Hop beat Taylor in either fight.

In the first he did nothing until about round 8 almost literally nothing and I'm not even sure he swept the last 4, Taylor was fighting back.

The second fight wasn't even controversial to me, I felt Hopkins at best was even going into the last round (I would have had him a round down) but Jermain Taylor clearly won the last round in that fight and sealed the win.

The Winky Wright fight was much more debatable than either Hopkins win imo.

Mosley/De La Hoya II: I actually thought Oscar won the fight. I wasn't disappointed with the outcome but I thought Oscar did enough to get the nod.

JMM/Barrera: I thought Marquez won the fight hands down. Barrera made it very competitive. If the knockdown counted, I still had Marquez up about 2 points.

Barrera/Morales I: Barrera won that fight but on the other hand I thought he lost the 2nd match-up between the two. So I guess it evened out in the end. The third fight was an obvious win for Barrera.

Hopkins/Taylor: I'm with Bilbo. Hopkins didn't do much until late in the fights. Taylor's activity won those fights clearly IMO.

Some other fights I'll throw in there:

Foreman vs Briggs (1997): Was I the only one that thought George got robbed?

Holyfield vs Lewis II (1999): Lewis did get robbed the first time but I also think that Holyfield won the fight the second time around.

To this day I hate the Hopkins vs Delahoya fight. I was not sold on that body shot because it was the his palm of his hand that did him in. In between the 8th and ninth you see Hopkins saying that this was his round something of which he has never done and people screaming body shot the entire round until Oscar went down from it and he gets up after pounding the mat. If there was a fight that was fixed to me then this is the 1. Not to mention they became partners shortly afterwards, which is confusing in its own right.

While I thought Mosely/ODH was a competitive fight I thought Oscar clearly won it and was robbed.

I had Bhop vs Taylor 1 a draw but gave the second one to Jermain. Both close fights and it just depended on what you put emphasis on.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Not even so much official decisions that you see as bad, everybody's got to have some contrarian opinions on certain fights, these are, among others, mine.

Mosley-De La Hoya II- I actually agreed with the decision but I could see how people might think Oscar won, its this insistence by some that he was robbed that confuses me. He at best won a close decision. Shane was clearly landing the harder punches and Oscar, as usual, got too much credit for flurries that didn't really land

Bernard Hopkins-Jermain Taylor II- I think Hopkins clearly won this fight.
A lot of people seem not to. The first fight is more debatable, Bernard clearly waited too long although its not like Taylor was doing much. But the second fight is almost to the point of not even being debatable to me, Bernard clearly won a majority of the rounds.

JMM-Barrera-I've been a fan of Barrera's for a long long time but he clearly lost this fight IMO. If I remember correctly I wasn't really able to post on Saddo's around this fight so I remember being shocked by how close people thought it was or that some people thought he won. I just don't see it.

Anyway, thoughts?

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I aggree with you there Ouma fan no way on earth Barrera won that fight he fought in effective spurts but Morrales was throwing and landing hard shots all night from 1 to 12 , think the difference is when MAB was hurt he tendedto kida tuck up and then rally whereas Morrales being upright got his head snapped back , but i mos def aggree with you on that .
I watch fights with the sound of and it makes a hell of a difference , alot of the time the crowd sways the commentator and they without realising find theselves being overly dramtic when one fighter lands .

Case in point Naz - MAB was alot closer , Naz towards the end of the fight was dominaiting with the Jab but found himself getting tagged off balance with alot of cuffing shots , Mab won the fight but it was by no means a landslide.

PBF - Hatton: I cannot understand people who constantly assert that Hatton would've won if there was a different ref or if the fight had taken place at 140. Hatton loses to PBF every time, regardless of the ref or the weight class.

Bute - Andrade: People who say Andrade was robbed based on the last round. Anyone who would actually take the time to read the IBF's championship rule would understand that this was not the case. Was Marlon Wright biased? Absolutely, he did a terrible job throughout the fight, letting Bute get away with everything. Should there be a rematch based on that alone? Certainly. However, regarding the final round, the seconds Bute's gloves cleared the canvas in the final round, the fight ended. Therefor, it does not matter if he was able to continue. The long count is also immaterial as Bute clearly is up by a regular count of 10.

I thought Osacr clearly beat Mosley the 2nd time. I was shocked at the decision. I think even Mosley was shocked at the decision because that was a celebration that wreaked of surprise when his name was announced a winner.

With JMM- Barrera, I thought JMM won clearly but I was pissed at the way Nady dealt with the knockdown. Because he didn't call it a knockdown and was slow to react, I felt that being deducted a point and not having the knockdown scored changed the complection of how Barrera fought the rest of the fight. He fought as a man who already felt robbed. For me it ruined the fight, but I'm a Marquez fan and I hate Barrera so in the end I don't care.

B-Hop-Taylor II is debatable. I remember thinking it was close and I had Nard winning. I wouldn't have argued either way though, alot of close rounds.


I couldn't understand how people felt Taylor beat Cory Spinks. I understand Spinks was negative and running and would have made a god awful middleweight champion, but Taylor didn't throw punches, and when you're not throwing, I can't score the fight your way. Honestly don't get it, but it set up a great Pavlik-Taylor fight, so I guess it was for the greater good.

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Originally Posted by CFH

PBF - Hatton: I cannot understand people who constantly assert that Hatton would've won if there was a different ref or if the fight had taken place at 140. Hatton loses to PBF every time, regardless of the ref or the weight class.

Bute - Andrade: People who say Andrade was robbed based on the last round. Anyone who would actually take the time to read the IBF's championship rule would understand that this was not the case. Was Marlon Wright biased? Absolutely, he did a terrible job throughout the fight, letting Bute get away with everything. Should there be a rematch based on that alone? Certainly. However, regarding the final round, the seconds Bute's gloves cleared the canvas in the final round, the fight ended. Therefor, it does not matter if he was able to continue. The long count is also immaterial as Bute clearly is up by a regular count of 10.

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Ive been looking at it in another way,The ref was a totally inept clown,should never ref another fight...But I also think Andrade was waaay to conservative in spots.Had 33 + minutes to work with and it all boiled down to tha last few seconds.Might be saying something?Hes boxing more,thats always good but needs to remember what brought him to the fore front.His aggresiveness and all out pressure....not to mention a steel head.Even in his last fight,I think he could have taken his opponent out but was thinking too much.In the Bute rematch I think he needs to go tribal.Get back to his roots.

Mayorga/ Spinks! I thought Mayorga won.

Hopkins/ Wright, I thought Hopkins dominated down the stretch & won clearly.

Jones Jr/ Tarver 1, thought Jones won by a couple of rounds.

I thought Hopkins won the 2nd Taylor fight.

I thought JMM clearly defeated barrera.

Morales over Barrera in the 1st was crazy, but the same could be said of Barrera in the 2nd.

I also thought that DLH won a close fight in the Mosley rematch.

I thought both Lewis-Holyfield fights were scored wrong #1 was Lewis all day #2 was Evander....I'm sorry he got jobbed in that fight, just as bad as Lennox did in the first fight. But why no rubber match?!?!?!

I think Rocky Juarez lost vs Zahir Raheem and he was waaaay down on my card vs Barrios who's corner (amazingly) knew the drill with Juarez when he fights in Houston, only Jorge punched himself out.

ODH beat Mosely second time

MAB won the first fight against EM, but lost the second and third in my opinion.

McCallum beat Toney the first two fights

BHop beat Taylor the first time and drew the second time

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I thought both Lewis-Holyfield fights were scored wrong #1 was Lewis all day #2 was Evander....I'm sorry he got jobbed in that fight, just as bad as Lennox did in the first fight. But why no rubber match?!?!?!

I think Rocky Juarez lost vs Zahir Raheem and he was waaaay down on my card vs Barrios who's corner (amazingly) knew the drill with Juarez when he fights in Houston, only Jorge punched himself out.

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Yeah in retrospect I wish that Lewis had one the first fight. You knew Evander was going to have to knock him out and that there was no way he was going to get a decision in the 2nd. I thought he won it as well. It is just sad that b/c the first decision was so bogus that the second one gets no attention.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Jones Jr/ Tarver 1, thought Jones won by a couple of rounds.
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Me too! When I finally got round to watching that fight after all the talk of Tarver getting robbed, I just didn't see it.

Jones was far more effective in my eyes. Tarvers little flurries didn't do much but make the crowd a little noisier.

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Originally Posted by Althugz

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Jones Jr/ Tarver 1, thought Jones won by a couple of rounds.
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Me too! When I finally got round to watching that fight after all the talk of Tarver getting robbed, I just didn't see it.

Jones was far more effective in my eyes. Tarvers little flurries didn't do much but make the crowd a little noisier.

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Jones' body shots were menacing!

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

Foreman vs Briggs (1997): Was I the only one that thought George got robbed?

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Far from it, there was quite an outcry, but sometimes two wrongs do make a right, eh Axel?;)

I am always confused with the goings on in boxing.

DLH V Trinidad still has me puzzled, a clear winner DLH loses on decision and having viewed the fight many times still cannot give Tito any rounds from 2-9? Round 1 was anyone's guess. I gave it to DLH anyway and scored the fight 117-111

DLH V Mosley 2 again was a great effort by DLH not rewarded, he lost the first fight by a MD yet Mosley clearly won that fight, he loses the second fight by UD in which he clearly beats Mosley?? WTF?

There are many others, Steele stops the Taylor V Chavez fight with 3 seconds to go?

The Whitaker draw with Chavez? Why no rematch? Whitaker clearly won that fight.

Duran...No Mas? did he really have the s hits?

Navarro scorecard 120-108 v Cristian Mijares WTF happened there?

Some great ones there Thirdman! That Navarro scorecard still has me scratching my head.

The recent Martinez/ Cintron fight still has me confused! Martinez should have won twice, the KO & then on the cards but only managed a draw???

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

There are many others, Steele stops the Taylor V Chavez fight with 3 seconds to go?

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Because Taylor was gone, he had swallowed a pint and a half of his own blood (according to his own trainer, Lou Duva) and had a broken eye orbital.

Sure he could of won, even if he had taken another Chavez right hand, but Steele's sole responsibility is that of protecting the fighters, he is not the timekeeper, and he made his (right) call.

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Duran...No Mas? did he really have the s hits?

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My theory is that Duran was not properly focused and was simply fustrated with Leonard's tactics and justified walking away because in his opinion; Leonard was not fighting.

I suspect soon after the bout, Duran realized his error and tried to dig himself out of the hole he had created....

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

There are many others, Steele stops the Taylor V Chavez fight with 3 seconds to go?

The Whitaker draw with Chavez? Why no rematch? Whitaker clearly won that fight.

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Because Taylor was gone, he had swallowed a pint and a half of his own blood (according to his own trainer, Lou Duva) and had a broken eye orbital.

Sure he could of won, even if he had taken another Chavez right hand, but Steele's sole responsibility is that of protecting the fighters, he is not the timekeeper, and he made his (right) call.

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Duran...No Mas? did he really have the s hits?

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My theory is that Duran was not properly focused and was simply fustrated with Leonard's tactics and justified walking away because in his opinion; Leonard was not fighting.

I suspect soon after the bout, Duran realized his error and tried to dig himself out of the hole he had created....

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The Taylor one is valid, those injuries are bad and i think Steele should be forgiven for that one, The Duran No Mas is interesting in that the fight was judged to be close on the scorecards at the time of his quitting, it's all still puzzling as he quits half way through the fight? Frustration, the s hits or his condition simply gave way, what ever the reason it's still one of the biggest mysteries in boxing history.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Not even so much official decisions that you see as bad, everybody's got to have some contrarian opinions on certain fights, these are, among others, mine.

Mosley-De La Hoya II- I actually agreed with the decision but I could see how people might think Oscar won, its this insistence by some that he was robbed that confuses me. He at best won a close decision. Shane was clearly landing the harder punches and Oscar, as usual, got too much credit for flurries that didn't really land

Bernard Hopkins-Jermain Taylor II- I think Hopkins clearly won this fight.
A lot of people seem not to. The first fight is more debatable, Bernard clearly waited too long although its not like Taylor was doing much. But the second fight is almost to the point of not even being debatable to me, Bernard clearly won a majority of the rounds.

JMM-Barrera-I've been a fan of Barrera's for a long long time but he clearly lost this fight IMO. If I remember correctly I wasn't really able to post on Saddo's around this fight so I remember being shocked by how close people thought it was or that some people thought he won. I just don't see it.

Anyway, thoughts?

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How did Hopkins win against Taylor the second time? Taylor was landing too many more solid punches.

Mosley-ODLH II- it was close...ish, but Oscar was landing so much more, despite Mosley landing the harder punches he was landing half as often. I wasn't given Oscar credit for missed flurries but some of those punches got through, it wasn't liek when he fought Mayweather.

Marquez-Barrera: Marquez won a close fight, how could you score it otherwise, it was like they were both shadow boxing in the mirror, Barrera deserved a knockdown in the fight and was ahead in the first half of the fight.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Not even so much official decisions that you see as bad, everybody's got to have some contrarian opinions on certain fights, these are, among others, mine.

Mosley-De La Hoya II- I actually agreed with the decision but I could see how people might think Oscar won, its this insistence by some that he was robbed that confuses me. He at best won a close decision. Shane was clearly landing the harder punches and Oscar, as usual, got too much credit for flurries that didn't really land

Bernard Hopkins-Jermain Taylor II- I think Hopkins clearly won this fight.
A lot of people seem not to. The first fight is more debatable, Bernard clearly waited too long although its not like Taylor was doing much. But the second fight is almost to the point of not even being debatable to me, Bernard clearly won a majority of the rounds.

JMM-Barrera-I've been a fan of Barrera's for a long long time but he clearly lost this fight IMO. If I remember correctly I wasn't really able to post on Saddo's around this fight so I remember being shocked by how close people thought it was or that some people thought he won. I just don't see it.

Anyway, thoughts?

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How did Hopkins win against Taylor the second time? Taylor was landing too many more solid punches.

Mosley-ODLH II- it was close...ish, but Oscar was landing so much more, despite Mosley landing the harder punches he was landing half as often. I wasn't given Oscar credit for missed flurries but some of those punches got through, it wasn't liek when he fought Mayweather.

Marquez-Barrera: Marquez won a close fight, how could you score it otherwise, it was like they were both shadow boxing in the mirror, Barrera deserved a knockdown in the fight and was ahead in the first half of the fight.

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I don't know, if you argue Taylor won through activity, ok but that's not how I score fights, clean punches? Hell no, Bernard landed the cleaner shots.

I thought Shane landed the cleaner, harder punches. I won't spend a lot of time debating it as I'm not gonna argue that Oscar couldn't have gotten the nod, it was a close fight, I just was always baffled by robbery talk.

Barrera-Marquez I've only seen once and I don't remember my exact scorecard but it depends on what you think is close, I definitely had Marquez winning by more than a point or two, he was just doing more effective work most of the rounds.

Here are a few that always confuse and sometimes aggravate me.

Ali - Frazier II
Ali - Norton III
Foreman - Schultz
Foreman - Briggs
Not on the same level but Burton vs Augustus
Dale Brown - Oneill Bell
Holyfield - Valuev
De La Hoya - Trinidad as well as Mosley II
Hagler - Leonard

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

Mosley/De La Hoya II: I actually thought Oscar won the fight. I wasn't disappointed with the outcome but I thought Oscar did enough to get the nod.

JMM/Barrera: I thought Marquez won the fight hands down. Barrera made it very competitive. If the knockdown counted, I still had Marquez up about 2 points.

Barrera/Morales I: Barrera won that fight but on the other hand I thought he lost the 2nd match-up between the two. So I guess it evened out in the end. The third fight was an obvious win for Barrera.

Hopkins/Taylor: I'm with Bilbo. Hopkins didn't do much until late in the fights. Taylor's activity won those fights clearly IMO.

Some other fights I'll throw in there:

Foreman vs Briggs (1997): Was I the only one that thought George got robbed?

Holyfield vs Lewis II (1999): Lewis did get robbed the first time but I also think that Holyfield won the fight the second time around.

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I thought Foreman won 8 of the 12 rounds. Sad way for him to go out, but the fact probably everyone including Briggs realized it was a message for George to quit from the boxing establishment.

Thought Lewis won the second one though it was close, not like the first one which was a clear cut win for Lewis.

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

Here are a few that always confuse and sometimes aggravate me.

Ali - Frazier II
Ali - Norton III
Foreman - Schultz
Foreman - Briggs
Not on the same level but Burton vs Augustus
Dale Brown - Oneill Bell
Holyfield - Valuev
De La Hoya - Trinidad as well as Mosley II
Hagler - Leonard

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I didn't give Foreman a round in the Schultz fight. That was awful. But Schultz did get another shot at a title so it was no foul there. Saw Valuev-Holyfield on youtube. Thought Holy clearly outboxed the giant. De La Hoya versus Trinidad was pure stupidity on Oscars part the way he ran the last three rounds.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I thought both Lewis-Holyfield fights were scored wrong #1 was Lewis all day #2 was Evander....I'm sorry he got jobbed in that fight, just as bad as Lennox did in the first fight. But why no rubber match?!?!?!

I think Rocky Juarez lost vs Zahir Raheem and he was waaaay down on my card vs Barrios who's corner (amazingly) knew the drill with Juarez when he fights in Houston, only Jorge punched himself out.

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Yeah on Lewis Holyfield I. It was not even close. Totally bizarre that one. II I thought was very close, maybe a slight edge to Holy, but it was nowhere near as bad as I.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

There are many others, Steele stops the Taylor V Chavez fight with 3 seconds to go?

The Whitaker draw with Chavez? Why no rematch? Whitaker clearly won that fight.

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Because Taylor was gone, he had swallowed a pint and a half of his own blood (according to his own trainer, Lou Duva) and had a broken eye orbital.

Sure he could of won, even if he had taken another Chavez right hand, but Steele's sole responsibility is that of protecting the fighters, he is not the timekeeper, and he made his (right) call.

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Duran...No Mas? did he really have the s hits?

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My theory is that Duran was not properly focused and was simply fustrated with Leonard's tactics and justified walking away because in his opinion; Leonard was not fighting.

I suspect soon after the bout, Duran realized his error and tried to dig himself out of the hole he had created....

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The Taylor one is valid, those injuries are bad and i think Steele should be forgiven for that one, The Duran No Mas is interesting in that the fight was judged to be close on the scorecards at the time of his quitting, it's all still puzzling as he quits half way through the fight? Frustration, the s hits or his condition simply gave way, what ever the reason it's still one of the biggest mysteries in boxing history.

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Third Man, I agree with your original point on Taylor-Chavez. Steele has a history of making questionable quick decisions.