Why is Hatton's loss being put on the trainer?

Its just stupid to blame SR, because i'm pretty sure he didn't tell ricky to walk his dumbass straight to PAC, Im sure he didnt tell him not to move his head. I'm sure he told him to keep his hands up...

Ricky chose to do it his way and got KTFO...and even if graham were in his corner the same thing would have happened. Hell If PBF were a bit more aggressive he would have stopped ricky inside of 6. Hatton is just one dimensional. No trianer would have helped him in that fight.

If anything Ricky should be blamed for making SR look bad as a trainer.

Too much is put on the trainers, floyd told ricky what to do. Rick has to do it....and he didn't, hell he didn't even follow the fundemental keep your hands up rule.

I have been doing that a bit. And, yes, Ricky needs to shoulder the blame for all of this. He chose the trainer, he chose to show nothing new nor even what we had seen before. It all played out in the most horrible fashion.

I do think Graham would have made him look better than that though. But that is neither here nor there. Snr sucks because he has no class. But Ricky chose a classless old pug for a trainer so he got what he paid for.

I dont think anyone is blaming Mayweather for Hatton losing.

But serios quistions can be asked about Floyd snr's proffesionalism as a trainer.Not showing up to training on time and what not.

Ricky has in no way made Floyd look like a bad trainer. That was all floyds fault.

After the 1st round Hatton went back to the corner and got this advise from Mayweather Snr this isnt word for word as it was hard to hear Mayweather.

What i've been telling you about moving your head MAN! You've got to fake and faint you've got to faint and then catch him. Just trying to fall in and over power him don't over power him keep your hands up MAN! You should have been listening to me from day 1.

And also when Ricky first got back Lee beard was chuntering on he should be quiet Floyd was Boss and their should only be one voice.

And then Hatton went out for the 2nd round and reverted back to bulldozing again Perhaps Lee beard is the problem really its funny that both Floyd and Billy graham have had run ins with him.

I dont think anyone is blaming Mayweather for Hatton losing.

But serios quistions can be asked about Floyd snr's proffesionalism as a trainer.Not showing up to training on time and what not.

Ricky has in no way made Floyd look like a bad trainer. That was all floyds fault(sorry bout this double post IE crashed on me)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miles

I have been doing that a bit. And, yes, Ricky needs to shoulder the blame for all of this. He chose the trainer, he chose to show nothing new nor even what we had seen before. It all played out in the most horrible fashion.

I do think Graham would have made him look better than that though. But that is neither here nor there. Snr sucks because he has no class. But Ricky chose a classless old pug for a trainer so he got what he paid for.

---

having no class has nothing to do with your ability to train a fighter, IMO Sr is still one of the best DEFENSIVE trainers around today, only thing is Hatton's style doesn't really mesh well with Sr's, he should of stayed with Graham for what was left of his career

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

After the 1st round Hatton went back to the corner and got this advise from Mayweather Snr this isnt word for word as it was hard to hear Mayweather.

What i've been telling you about moving your head MAN! You've got to fake and faint you've got to faint and then catch him. Just trying to fall in and over power him don't over power him keep your hands up MAN! You should have been listening to me from day 1.

And also when Ricky first got back Lee beard was chuntering on he should be quiet Floyd was Boss and their should only be one voice.

And then Hatton went out for the 2nd round and reverted back to bulldozing again Perhaps Lee beard is the problem really its funny that both Floyd and Billy graham have had run ins with him.

---

you can see than that Floyd Sr was telling Hatton the truth, he did have to keep his chin down and use head movement, IMO Ricky's biggest mistake was he tried to fight Manny in the center of the ring, he should of hunched down a bit and not fight so straight up, and should of jabbed to get in and push Manny to the ropes, where it would be his advantage, in terms of strength, i still say Ricky is stronger, remember strong doesn't always mean KO, Pacquiao put on a brilliant display, but Ricky also fought a dumb fight

I would argue that class has a lot to do with things. Snr. chose to do what he did. He was paid a lot of money to train a top level fighter and couldnt even walk him out of the ring.

That shows a lack of class. Or am I misreading you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miles

I would argue that class has a lot to do with things. Snr. chose to do what he did. He was paid a lot of money to train a top level fighter and couldnt even walk him out of the ring.

That shows a lack of class. Or am I misreading you?

---

i agree completely that that was classless, if you're gonna back a fighter, you should back him all the way, even after the defeat, not just dump everything on him, but what i'm saying is that no one can blame the loss on Floyd Sr, he did his part, he trained Hatton, and after the first told him exactly what he should have, Ricky didn't really listen and made the same mistakes, although i agree Floyd Sr's acts were classless, he's still a very talented trainer

I think Ricky listened more to his majority fans than anybody in his team. He prolly heard something like "Hatton is the bigger, stronger guy... will bully Pac around and gore him... break his ribs blah blah blah" :-\:(


Yeah right. So much for that.

....and yet people still bitch about Wladimir Klitschko fighting. Hey, he wins doesn't he? He uses a plan, he listens to his trainer, he dominates and he wins. Ricky could learn from that, not a style but a way to manage a fight which is what he needed to do after getting hurt.

To me Ricky seems to be the UK twin of Arturo Gatti, he CAN box but he won't, he CAN use defense but chooses against it. Sure Sr. should have had him ready for this a little better, but people are more questioning his dedication to Ricky and not his advice.

Why isn't Lee Beard Hatton's trainer if he knows all this stuff and he and Ricky are so buddy buddy????

I think that the whole situation is a bit more complicated than that:

Sure, Hatton should follow Mayweather's advices a bit better, but I think we really can't blame everything on that: There is also the part where the trainer is able to motivate a fighter and his ability to make him swallow the wizardry of boxing, perhaps Mayweather hasn't been able to adjust to Ricky about it, which is a part of his job indeed.
Also, Mayweather has a lot to be blamed for: not supporting Ricky out of the Ring, not being the first one over him when he got knocked down, never admitting any part of blame in the defeat and finally being overpaid (how much do we talk here, 300-400-500 000$?) and not being able to wake up on time more than once. It is unacceptable. If I was a pro fighter, the guy I would hire would be the best available to my situation and you can be certain I'll expect a lot from him, the first thing is being on time. We do not talk one or two time lates here, we talk a lot. To me, it shows selfishness, especially when the guy answers simply: "Ricky should retire if he can't beat Pacman or My son". After only 2 defeats how can you say such thing? you're supposed to be supportive of your fighter, at worst, say something more elusive like: "we'll have to see things together and discuss about what's next", not simply elude he should retire and that is it.

I don't think anybody is blaming Floyd Sr. Hatton just forgot everything he didn't keep his hands up and he moved his head a couple of times. Hatton just had an off night. He looked a little better in that second round and I think he had that round if the rounds were only 2:58 seconds. Sucks very much. I can't imagine how Hatton feels, I fuckin bawled like a bitch for all of saturday night and have felt like shit and I still feel like shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tins06

I dont think anyone is blaming Mayweather for Hatton losing.

But serios quistions can be asked about Floyd snr's proffesionalism as a trainer.Not showing up to training on time and what not.

Ricky has in no way made Floyd look like a bad trainer. That was all floyds fault.

---

In terms of proffesionalism, nobody should have ever expected much from Floyd Sr in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by "The L.A. Earthquake"

I don't think anybody is blaming Floyd Sr. Hatton just forgot everything he didn't keep his hands up and he moved his head a couple of times. Hatton just had an off night. He looked a little better in that second round and I think he had that round if the rounds were only 2:58 seconds. Sucks very much. I can't imagine how Hatton feels, I fuckin bawled like a bitch for all of saturday night and have felt like shit and I still feel like shit.

---

Pacquiao dominated both rounds, Hatton was barely landing anything in the second round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by "The L.A. Earthquake"

I don't think anybody is blaming Floyd Sr. Hatton just forgot everything he didn't keep his hands up and he moved his head a couple of times. Hatton just had an off night. He looked a little better in that second round and I think he had that round if the rounds were only 2:58 seconds. Sucks very much. I can't imagine how Hatton feels, I fuckin bawled like a bitch for all of saturday night and have felt like shit and I still feel like shit.

---

Pacquiao dominated both rounds, Hatton was barely landing anything in the second round.

---

May'be he was IDK I guess I was still in shock, but Hatton seemed to be using the jab more and looked a little better and looked a little more settled in in that round.

I guess Pacquiao didn't dominate the second round hte same way, but he was the only one landing really clean punches and he was doing it pretty often, also you could see him timing that left hook over the jab, he barely missed a couple of times with it, and I was just waiting for that to happen, I didn't realize it would lay Hatton out like that though.

Neither of them tried to make it as a boxing match. It was a 100% brawl. And the so called "the bigger man" was the one who got in trouble kissing the canvas 3 times.

Not Mayweather's fault. But generally seems agreed upon that Mayweather looked like an ass from his behavior before and after the fight.

To me Hatton thought his speed was equal to Manny's so he stayed in range and tried to punch with him. Problem wasn't he didn't learn to move his head. He wanted to punch first and would get hit before he punched. Definitely bad game plan.

People are actually surprised that the Hatton fans are AGAIN using a scapegoat for another defeat?

Sr's advice in the corner was perfectly clear - and valid. Hatton chose to ignore it.

Jim Watt said it best on the U.K commentary - 'Where is the new Ricky Hatton!?!?'...because he showed up for the Paulie fight but couldn't keep his cool for this fight.

Floyd Snr is classless? - guilty, but that doesn't equate to him being the reason that Hatton lost.

Billy Graham most certainly would not have made him look any better by putting on a fat suit and getting Ricky to tee off on him for preperation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taeth

I guess Pacquiao didn't dominate the second round hte same way, but he was the only one landing really clean punches and he was doing it pretty often, also you could see him timing that left hook over the jab, he barely missed a couple of times with it, and I was just waiting for that to happen, I didn't realize it would lay Hatton out like that though.

---

Hatton did have a better round in the 2nd until the KO, even though Pacquiao was clearly winning, but yea apart from a good left hook up top on the inside from Hatton that wobbled Manny a bit, Hatton didn't do much in the whole fight

No blame can be placed on Mayweather. Hatton thought he could walk through Pac and nail him with left hooks and he was wrong, very wrong.

Ricky Hatton was not ready for the fight mentally. People have said his self indulgent attitude is an act to promote the fight but his action display otherwise.

While the ultimate blame may lie with Ricky, but with out any doubt Floyd Mayweather Sr. should to accept a percentage of the blame that he failed Ricky for this bout. Ricky's head was not in the right place. As a trainer and corner man he accepted the job and should have been aware of where is head was as part of any game plan. He failed to get Ricky in the right frame of mind and that's 50% the trainer's/cornerman's fault.

Even after the fight he didn't even pretend to show concern about his man. This characterization will haunt him should he continue to pursue boxing as a trainer. With that display of integrity, I don't think there is a top fighter other than Jr. who would think of having him in his corner. He ran out in the face of defeat. IMO, Any bad press he gets he deserves.

If his trainer had not tried to alter anything or give him the tools to win then yes we could lay some blame his way.

Him running his mouth off has nothing to do with it. Roach talks as much crap.

Fact is for whatever reason Hatton acted like a bonehead. No head or body movement and charged in. When Pacs first lead hook landed that told me everything on how this fight would go.

Hatton has only himself to blame. It also shows the gulf between Hatton and the great fighters Pac has fought who were able to take those shots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fan johnny

Ricky Hatton was not ready for the fight mentally. People have said his self indulgent attitude is an act to promote the fight but his action display otherwise.

While the ultimate blame may lie with Ricky, but with out any doubt Floyd Mayweather Sr. should to accept a percentage of the blame that he failed Ricky for this bout. Ricky's head was not in the right place. As a trainer and corner man he accepted the job and should have been aware of where is head was as part of any game plan. He failed to get Ricky in the right frame of mind and that's 50% the trainer's/cornerman's fault.

Even after the fight he didn't even pretend to show concern about his man. This characterization will haunt him should he continue to pursue boxing as a trainer. With that display of integrity, I don't think there is a top fighter other than Jr. who would think of having him in his corner. He ran out in the face of defeat. IMO, Any bad press he gets he deserves.

---

Possibly but I've seen good corner work in action, trying all sorts to get through to their man and I've seen a fighter mentally break in the corner. For some people I don't think there is anything a corner can do for them.
Maybe the years of Graham shouting in the corner trying to gee his man up was detrimental in the long term when a cooler headed Hatton was required?

people that are saying ricky should have stayed with graham, he's the one that allowed ricky to go for so long with all those bad habits...even when he was suffering from cuts, he never was told to start keeping his hands up..now that ricky is on the big stage his flaws are being exploited. Must be why they never put him in the ring with Junior witter, that lost would have surely saved him from these two embarassments and we'd be talking about how junior witter beat pac at 140 and lost to floyd at 147...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

people that are saying ricky should have stayed with graham, he's the one that allowed ricky to go for so long with all those bad habits...even when he was suffering from cuts, he never was told to start keeping his hands up..now that ricky is on the big stage his flaws are being exploited. Must be why they never put him in the ring with Junior witter, that lost would have surely saved him from these two embarassments and we'd be talking about how junior witter beat pac at 140 and lost to floyd at 147...

---

Witter gets his ass handed to him just as bad as Ricky if not worse

Hatton's loss isn't Mayweather's fault. Hatton could have had Angelo Dundee and Eddie Futch working his corner and it wouldn't have made a difference. Or to put it another way, if Mayweather trained Pac and Roach trained Ricky, does anyone think Hatton wins? I sure don't.

Mayweather does deserve criticism for acting unprofessionally after the fight, but that's a separate discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SweetPea

Hatton's loss isn't Mayweather's fault. Hatton could have had Angelo Dundee and Eddie Futch working his corner and it wouldn't have made a difference. Or to put it another way, if Mayweather trained Pac and Roach trained Ricky, does anyone think Hatton wins? I sure don't.

Mayweather does deserve criticism for acting unprofessionally after the fight, but that's a separate discussion.

---

That is a good way to put it and I totally agree. Hatton is the same ol' Hatton and he'll never learn to box. He is nothing but a smaller Jeff Lacy. He is in love with trying to brawl and overpower. It doesn't matter what you learn in training if you always go back to your same bad habits. I think that most any elite prime fighter who is agressive will put Hatton out in the first half of the fight. He is too hittable and even while getting hit he still does the same things.

Ricky didnt blame Floyd so we cant say he should take the blame because he has. Its everyone on this forum who are blaming Floyd and im not suprised because he os a right **** but it is really all on the fighter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

Ricky didnt blame Floyd so we cant say he should take the blame because he has. Its everyone on this forum who are blaming Floyd and im not suprised because he os a right **** but it is really all on the fighter.

---

fights that you should blame the trainer are fights like Trinidad/Wright, where Tito was clearly getting beaten and Trinidad Sr kept telling Tito that he was doing everything right, and that Winky was tirinig already

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SweetPea

Hatton's loss isn't Mayweather's fault. Hatton could have had Angelo Dundee and Eddie Futch working his corner and it wouldn't have made a difference. Or to put it another way, if Mayweather trained Pac and Roach trained Ricky, does anyone think Hatton wins? I sure don't.

Mayweather does deserve criticism for acting unprofessionally after the fight, but that's a separate discussion.

---

What if Roach told Ricky, Pacquiao skills are amateurish and he was to big for Pacquaio to hurt? It would give him false confidence. The door swings both ways my friend. He gets part of the blame for an ill prepared fighter stepping into the ring, just not the majority of it, which is with Ricky.

Well.... we could look at it from another perspective and that's all the blame is with Pacquaio! ;D

Notice the example Pacquiao sets: "I'm just doing my job"

mattboxingfan change the writing in your sig ;) or actually Rocky did beat Mr T after he said that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocky Balboa

mattboxingfan change the writing in your sig ;) or actually Rocky did beat Mr T after he said that

---

Good point haddent noticed, thanks:).

I actually think the whole thing has gone to Hatton's head these past few years, since the Tszyu fight Hatton has had an army of fans telling him how wonderful he is and he really has believed them all!!
He loses to Mayweather, but the excuse is Mayweather is the best fighter in the world, no shame there he thinks. He then fights Paquiao and is not competitive at all for 2 rounds and gets Knocked out cold!
I can't see how this is his trainer's fault? If his camp wasn't a happy one leading up to the fight i do not see how this made any difference to the demolition job Pacquiao did on him. It sounds more like Hatton was going to do it his way no matter who was in his corner and that's just ego!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

I actually think the whole thing has gone to Hatton's head these past few years, since the Tszyu fight Hatton has had an army of fans telling him how wonderful he is and he really has believed them all!!
He loses to Mayweather, but the excuse is Mayweather is the best fighter in the world, no shame there he thinks. He then fights Paquiao and is not competitive at all for 2 rounds and gets Knocked out cold!
I can't see how this is his trainer's fault? If his camp wasn't a happy one leading up to the fight i do not see how this made any difference to the demolition job Pacquiao did on him. It sounds more like Hatton was going to do it his way no matter who was in his corner and that's just ego!

---

I am not that sure, I think that the fact that your trainer drags too much attention and doesn't seem to care being on time to prepare you for the most important match of your career must play somewhere in a boxer's mind.

The problem with fighters like Hatton is that, in the ring, they've got bigger egos than people like Floyd Jr & Sr. have outside of it. Ever since the Kosta Tszyu fight, Hatton deluded himself into thinking that if he could bulldoze Tszyu, then he could bulldoze anybody. He got hit a couple good times by Manny and then he had to prove that he could bulldoze Manny. By the way he fought, you could tell that he NEVER gave Manny any type of respect at 140. And he paid dearly. He didn't listen to Floyd Sr AT ALL!!! I mean the guy came in with his chin out basically from the bell lunging into Manny.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he just retired. With the Floyd KO, Floyd's style allowed him to be competitive in the fight and he was out of his 140 comfort zone so he always found solace in that fact. He still had hope. The Manny KO in his comfort zone of 140 was so brutally fast and dominant that there's no excuse this time. He doesn't wanna box, he wanted to punish Manny using his style and bulldoze him, and instead, Hatton got pulverized. His comfort zone is gone, don't be surprised if you never see Hatton in a ring again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by albsur2006

The problem with fighters like Hatton is that, in the ring, they've got bigger egos than people like Floyd Jr & Sr. have outside of it. Ever since the Kosta Tszyu fight, Hatton deluded himself into thinking that if he could bulldoze Tszyu, then he could bulldoze anybody. He got hit a couple good times by Manny and then he had to prove that he could bulldoze Manny. By the way he fought, you could tell that he NEVER gave Manny any type of respect at 140. And he paid dearly. He didn't listen to Floyd Sr AT ALL!!! I mean the guy came in with his chin out basically from the bell lunging into Manny.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he just retired. With the Floyd KO, Floyd's style allowed him to be competitive in the fight and he was out of his 140 comfort zone so he always found solace in that fact. He still had hope. The Manny KO in his comfort zone of 140 was so brutally fast and dominant that there's no excuse this time. He doesn't wanna box, he wanted to punish Manny using his style and bulldoze him, and instead, Hatton got pulverized. His comfort zone is gone, don't be surprised if you never see Hatton in a ring again.

---

I agree with you here, he seems to forget the Tszyu fight was close until he took Tszyu's balls from underneath him. I wouldn't be surprised if he got knocked out again by someone far less qualified to do it than Manny Paquiao. He is a classic example of a fighter who has believed his own publicity machine and paid the penalty, he gave the Pacman no respect and it showed, i don't think the Floyd snr arrangement was ever going to work when you stop and think of the vastly differeant backgrounds the two come from. If Floyd snr was unproffessional in camp by being late etc then Hatton is equally guilty of disrespecting his opponent and not acting on Floyd snr when he had the chance.
In business if your staff fail you, then you fire them! What the Fatman needs to do if he is to continue, is get back to basics. Rediscover what made him a World Champion in the first place, only he will know this himself.
If he can't find the answer to that within 6 months then he must give it away before some chump knocks him out again!

Hatton lost because of this style.
Bringing in Floyd Sr. to train him meant nothing.

In the end Hatton came out his own way and did nothing that was taught to him.

Hatton lost because of his trademark style which is come forward.
You wont beat Pac that way, Pac will and has KO'd all of his opponents who decide to trade with him and fight this way.

Now take fighters who box, counter and use the entire ring and he has problems with them see JMM fight, Erik fight. The way to beat Pac is to box that has been proven by both JMM & Erik.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Hatton lost because of this style.
Bringing in Floyd Sr. to train him meant nothing.

In the end Hatton came out his own way and did nothing that was taught to him.

Hatton lost because of his trademark style which is come forward.
You wont beat Pac that way, Pac will and has KO'd all of his opponents who decide to trade with him and fight this way.

Now take fighters who box, counter and use the entire ring and he has problems with them see JMM fight, Erik fight. The way to beat Pac is to box that has been proven by both JMM & Erik.

---

Correct, Marquez is the blueprint on how to beat Pacquiao, i don't think Pacman wants to fight Marquez again. We would all love to see a third fight but i doubt it will happen. Hatton fought a dumb fight and saw the door closing but kept on walking right into it! He showed little respect and did little homework on his opponent, all he had to do was watch the first two Pac V Marquez fights and he might have learnt something. I can't wait to see how Mayweather handles him.