Who among the 147 champs you want PAC to possibly get his 7th division title?

PAC got a belt/title in these divisions:

112
122
126
130
135
140

Obviously 147 is the next logical division where PAC must get his next belt/title for a record shattering 7th division title...

Who will be that lucky (or unlucky) 147 champ that PAC must defeat in order to get his 7th division title?

Vote in the poll...

jesus pac could of been a 9 weight world champ if he didnt skip a few divisions at the lower weights! imagin that!

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

jesus pac could of been a 9 weight world champ if he didnt skip a few divisions at the lower weights! imagin that!

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thank you for noticing that. ;)


that's the reason I'm a die hard fan. I couldn't imagine it.:cool:

I'm so glad I have seen his career from the beginning. The only time I doubted him was when he fought against DLH. Lost badly to Danny G for my unbelief.spicoli was right.... I should have never placed a bet against Pac.:cool:

No offense for Urango but I choose him for obvious reasons (that's if Urango upsets Berto)... ;)

BTW if PAC gets this 7th division title, he will be the only boxer to attain that...

PAC is already the only boxer who got 4 lineal titles (112, 126, 130 & 140)
.

Mosley and Cotto are the big two for me, so either of them. But it should be at 147 and no catch weights because that is the proper WW class IMO. If Manny wants to come in lighter then that's his calling.

Reason tells me that he loses to both, but logic seems to have gone out the window regarding Manny. So, I abstain from making any real judgments. :-\

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

No offense for Urango but I choose him for obvious reasons (that's if Urango upsets Berto)... ;)

BTW if PAC gets this 7th division title, he will be the only boxer to attain that...

PAC is already the only boxer who got 4 lineal titles (112, 126, 130 & 140)

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Can you explain that to me?

Hatton 140
Barrera 126

How were the other two titles lineal?

I would like to see him fighting Sugar Shane. It will definitely be a big money fight since we have Pac vs an American legend. If Pac becomes unfortunate, he can still slug it out with either Marquez and Coto and still have that big paycheck. But when he fights Coto first, and loses, his mega buck fight vs Mayweather or Sugar is gone.

Oh by the way, I would like to crongratulate Ricky Hatton and Manny Pac for having a great fight. Ricky is nice guy, a great fighter, but losing to someone that ranks among the best is something that he should not be ashamed of.
For Pac, Stay out of politics or I will knock you out.. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

No offense for Urango but I choose him for obvious reasons (that's if Urango upsets Berto)... ;)

BTW if PAC gets this 7th division title, he will be the only boxer to attain that...

PAC is already the only boxer who got 4 lineal titles (112, 126, 130 & 140)

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Can you explain that to me?

Hatton 140
Barrera 126

How were the other two titles lineal?

---

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title



World Jr. Lightweight (130) – SD12 Juan Manuel Marquez: Ironically, the path leading to Pacquiao’s third world title would begin and end with the same foe. In his first defense of the Featherweight crown in April 2004, Pacquiao dropped Marquez, then the WBA and IBF titlist at 126 lbs, thrice en route to a draw which still provokes debate. The rematch seemed obvious but was not immediate. Instead Pacquiao would head up the scale four pounds for his only loss to date outside the Flyweight arena. Over twelve, he was outboxed and outfoxed in what may have been the last great performance from Erik Morales. The loss would be avenged twice by stoppage. Another decision victory over Marco Antonio Barrera, who had lost his WBC Jr. Lightweight title to Marquez one fight earlier, set up the rematch nearly four years in the making on March 15, 2008.

It was worth the wait. A third-round knockdown would provide Pacquiao a single point edge on the scorecard of judge Tom Miller to avoid yet another draw in yet another classic encounter. Going into the bout, the Ring had announced they would recognize the winner as champion and it was the right choice. The gap between Pacquiao and Marquez, and almost everyone else at 130 (save, maybe, Joan Guzman), was such that the winner could be recognized as nothing less than the division’s first true World Champion since Floyd Mayweather departed in 2002. As had been the case one division lower, Pacquiao was the first to officially add this divisional crown to a career begun with 112 lb. laurels.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

No offense for Urango but I choose him for obvious reasons (that's if Urango upsets Berto)... ;)

BTW if PAC gets this 7th division title, he will be the only boxer to attain that...

PAC is already the only boxer who got 4 lineal titles (112, 126, 130 & 140)

---

Can you explain that to me?

Hatton 140
Barrera 126

How were the other two titles lineal?

---

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title



World Jr. Lightweight (130) – SD12 Juan Manuel Marquez: Ironically, the path leading to Pacquiao’s third world title would begin and end with the same foe. In his first defense of the Featherweight crown in April 2004, Pacquiao dropped Marquez, then the WBA and IBF titlist at 126 lbs, thrice en route to a draw which still provokes debate. The rematch seemed obvious but was not immediate. Instead Pacquiao would head up the scale four pounds for his only loss to date outside the Flyweight arena. Over twelve, he was outboxed and outfoxed in what may have been the last great performance from Erik Morales. The loss would be avenged twice by stoppage. Another decision victory over Marco Antonio Barrera, who had lost his WBC Jr. Lightweight title to Marquez one fight earlier, set up the rematch nearly four years in the making on March 15, 2008.

It was worth the wait. A third-round knockdown would provide Pacquiao a single point edge on the scorecard of judge Tom Miller to avoid yet another draw in yet another classic encounter. Going into the bout, the Ring had announced they would recognize the winner as champion and it was the right choice. The gap between Pacquiao and Marquez, and almost everyone else at 130 (save, maybe, Joan Guzman), was such that the winner could be recognized as nothing less than the division’s first true World Champion since Floyd Mayweather departed in 2002. As had been the case one division lower, Pacquiao was the first to officially add this divisional crown to a career begun with 112 lb. laurels.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

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Lineal at 112 seems to work out. Even if people think Johnson was a better champion you can trace "the man who beat the man" to Pac. (It should be noted he LOST that title before moving up. ;))

Lineal at 130 seems a bit bogus. There is no "man who beat the man" or unified champion. Barrera had the WBC and recently vacted the IBF when Marquez beat him. That's two titles for Marquez and subsequently two for Pac. BUT Guzman was WBO champion and Valero WBA champion at the time. There are no form lines (i can find) that tie the titles to Pac or Marquez. So The Ring title was on the line for Marquez-Pac but not the linear title.

Pac is a 3 time linear champ. Someone correct me if wrong.

Forecast: UNclear, Lineal Claim to the World Title ;)

I voted Mosley but he won't beat Mosley

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Can you explain that to me?

Hatton 140
Barrera 126

How were the other two titles lineal?

---

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title



World Jr. Lightweight (130) – SD12 Juan Manuel Marquez: Ironically, the path leading to Pacquiao’s third world title would begin and end with the same foe. In his first defense of the Featherweight crown in April 2004, Pacquiao dropped Marquez, then the WBA and IBF titlist at 126 lbs, thrice en route to a draw which still provokes debate. The rematch seemed obvious but was not immediate. Instead Pacquiao would head up the scale four pounds for his only loss to date outside the Flyweight arena. Over twelve, he was outboxed and outfoxed in what may have been the last great performance from Erik Morales. The loss would be avenged twice by stoppage. Another decision victory over Marco Antonio Barrera, who had lost his WBC Jr. Lightweight title to Marquez one fight earlier, set up the rematch nearly four years in the making on March 15, 2008.

It was worth the wait. A third-round knockdown would provide Pacquiao a single point edge on the scorecard of judge Tom Miller to avoid yet another draw in yet another classic encounter. Going into the bout, the Ring had announced they would recognize the winner as champion and it was the right choice. The gap between Pacquiao and Marquez, and almost everyone else at 130 (save, maybe, Joan Guzman), was such that the winner could be recognized as nothing less than the division’s first true World Champion since Floyd Mayweather departed in 2002. As had been the case one division lower, Pacquiao was the first to officially add this divisional crown to a career begun with 112 lb. laurels.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

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Lineal at 112 seems to work out. Even if people think Johnson was a better champion you can trace "the man who beat the man" to Pac. (It should be noted he LOST that title before moving up. ;))

Lineal at 130 seems a bit bogus. There is no "man who beat the man" or unified champion. Barrera had the WBC and recently vacted the IBF when Marquez beat him. That's two titles for Marquez and subsequently two for Pac. BUT Guzman was WBO champion and Valero WBA champion at the time. There are no form lines (i can find) that tie the titles to Pac or Marquez. So The Ring title was on the line for Marquez-Pac but not the linear title.

Pac is a 3 time linear champ. Someone correct me if wrong.

Forecast: UNclear, Lineal Claim to the World Title ;)

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It's up for debate and as what the writer pointed out, the gap between PAC and JMM and the rest at 130 is so noticeable... Guzman? Valero? I think they're a notch below PAC and JMM...;)

BTW, who are the other boxers with 3 lineal titles aside from PAC? ;)
.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title



World Jr. Lightweight (130) – SD12 Juan Manuel Marquez: Ironically, the path leading to Pacquiao’s third world title would begin and end with the same foe. In his first defense of the Featherweight crown in April 2004, Pacquiao dropped Marquez, then the WBA and IBF titlist at 126 lbs, thrice en route to a draw which still provokes debate. The rematch seemed obvious but was not immediate. Instead Pacquiao would head up the scale four pounds for his only loss to date outside the Flyweight arena. Over twelve, he was outboxed and outfoxed in what may have been the last great performance from Erik Morales. The loss would be avenged twice by stoppage. Another decision victory over Marco Antonio Barrera, who had lost his WBC Jr. Lightweight title to Marquez one fight earlier, set up the rematch nearly four years in the making on March 15, 2008.

It was worth the wait. A third-round knockdown would provide Pacquiao a single point edge on the scorecard of judge Tom Miller to avoid yet another draw in yet another classic encounter. Going into the bout, the Ring had announced they would recognize the winner as champion and it was the right choice. The gap between Pacquiao and Marquez, and almost everyone else at 130 (save, maybe, Joan Guzman), was such that the winner could be recognized as nothing less than the division’s first true World Champion since Floyd Mayweather departed in 2002. As had been the case one division lower, Pacquiao was the first to officially add this divisional crown to a career begun with 112 lb. laurels.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

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Lineal at 112 seems to work out. Even if people think Johnson was a better champion you can trace "the man who beat the man" to Pac. (It should be noted he LOST that title before moving up. ;))

Lineal at 130 seems a bit bogus. There is no "man who beat the man" or unified champion. Barrera had the WBC and recently vacted the IBF when Marquez beat him. That's two titles for Marquez and subsequently two for Pac. BUT Guzman was WBO champion and Valero WBA champion at the time. There are no form lines (i can find) that tie the titles to Pac or Marquez. So The Ring title was on the line for Marquez-Pac but not the linear title.

Pac is a 3 time linear champ. Someone correct me if wrong.

Forecast: UNclear, Lineal Claim to the World Title ;)

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It's up for debate and as what the writer pointed out, the gap between PAC and JMM and the rest at 130 is so noticeable... Guzman? Valero? I think they're a notch below PAC and JMM...;)

BTW, who are the other boxers with 3 lineal titles aside from PAC? ;)
.

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Don't know, tell me?

The gap between Pac/Marquez and Guzman/Valero is not huge. For sure the first two were rightly ranked top but the other two are unbeaten. It's impossible to be certain of the outcome before it happens. Remember how big a favourite Oscar was to beat Pac? ;)

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Lineal at 112 seems to work out. Even if people think Johnson was a better champion you can trace "the man who beat the man" to Pac. (It should be noted he LOST that title before moving up. ;))

Lineal at 130 seems a bit bogus. There is no "man who beat the man" or unified champion. Barrera had the WBC and recently vacted the IBF when Marquez beat him. That's two titles for Marquez and subsequently two for Pac. BUT Guzman was WBO champion and Valero WBA champion at the time. There are no form lines (i can find) that tie the titles to Pac or Marquez. So The Ring title was on the line for Marquez-Pac but not the linear title.

Pac is a 3 time linear champ. Someone correct me if wrong.

Forecast: UNclear, Lineal Claim to the World Title ;)

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It's up for debate and as what the writer pointed out, the gap between PAC and JMM and the rest at 130 is so noticeable... Guzman? Valero? I think they're a notch below PAC and JMM...;)

BTW, who are the other boxers with 3 lineal titles aside from PAC? ;)
.

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Don't know, tell me?

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I also don't know... It's possible PAC the only boxer with 3 lineal titles... Yahoooo ;)

I think he would beat Bert pretty easily, Berto has horrible defense and with Pacquiaos speed it would be a dizaster for him, not too mention he is a come forward fighter another plus for Manny

Voted for Shane as he would legitimately be fighting the best current welterweight champ.

I picked Berto. Would turn into a great fight and I would love to see Pac abuse Andre; though Andre is strong, fast and can box well. Defense is lacking though. Would go to the trenches in that one.

Too bad Paul Williams had to move up; I would of loved to see Pac fight him: David and Goliath:o

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Originally Posted by LEGION

I picked Berto. Would turn into a great fight and I would love to see Pac abuse Andre; though Andre is strong, fast and can box well. Defense is lacking though. Would go to the trenches in that one.

Too bad Paul Williams had to move up; I would of loved to see Pac fight him: David and Goliath:o

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I picked Berto too. Cuz somebody needs to expose his overrated a$s asap.

Well Sugar Ray Leonard was lineal champ in the 147 160 168 divsions could argue he was also in the 154 and 175 as well so guess him saddo.

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Originally Posted by miles

Mosley and Cotto are the big two for me, so either of them. But it should be at 147 and no catch weights because that is the proper WW class IMO. If Manny wants to come in lighter then that's his calling.

Reason tells me that he loses to both, but logic seems to have gone out the window regarding Manny. So, I abstain from making any real judgments. :-\

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I don't see him asking for any catch weight deal. He already demolished Oscar at ww.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

It's up for debate and as what the writer pointed out, the gap between PAC and JMM and the rest at 130 is so noticeable... Guzman? Valero? I think they're a notch below PAC and JMM...;)

BTW, who are the other boxers with 3 lineal titles aside from PAC? ;)
.

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Don't know, tell me?

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I also don't know... It's possible PAC the only boxer with 3 lineal titles... Yahoooo ;)

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Bob Fitsimmons held the lineal middleweight, heavyweight and light heavyweight titles, in that order. He won the middleweight title, moved up and won the heavyweight title and after losing it dropped down to win the light heavyweight title.

Henry Armstrong was featherweight, welterweight and lightweight champ in that order of winning the titles. He held all three at the same time.

There have been others but those are the ones most remember because Bob did it first and Henry was the only one to hold all three at same time.

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by miles

Mosley and Cotto are the big two for me, so either of them. But it should be at 147 and no catch weights because that is the proper WW class IMO. If Manny wants to come in lighter then that's his calling.

Reason tells me that he loses to both, but logic seems to have gone out the window regarding Manny. So, I abstain from making any real judgments. :-\

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I don't see him asking for any catch weight deal. He already demolished Oscar at ww.

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PAC said he can fight anywhere from 135 to 147 (remember he's only 138 during the Hatton weigh-in and he didn't even do any dieting)... I reckon he go for 147 if it's Urango or Berto just to have a belt in line and ask for a catch weight if it's Cotto or Mosley... I don't want PAC to face Clottey...;)

I've also read Cotto is willing to go down to a catchweight in order to face PAC...
.

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Don't know, tell me?

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I also don't know... It's possible PAC the only boxer with 3 lineal titles... Yahoooo ;)

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Bob Fitsimmons held the lineal middleweight, heavyweight and light heavyweight titles, in that order. He won the middleweight title, moved up and won the heavyweight title and after losing it dropped down to win the light heavyweight title.

Henry Armstrong was featherweight, welterweight and lightweight champ in that order of winning the titles. He held all three at the same time.

There have been others but those are the ones most remember because Bob did it first and Henry was the only one to hold all three at same time.

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Thanks for the info... Is there any boxer holding 4 lineal titles?
.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I also don't know... It's possible PAC the only boxer with 3 lineal titles... Yahoooo ;)

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Bob Fitsimmons held the lineal middleweight, heavyweight and light heavyweight titles, in that order. He won the middleweight title, moved up and won the heavyweight title and after losing it dropped down to win the light heavyweight title.

Henry Armstrong was featherweight, welterweight and lightweight champ in that order of winning the titles. He held all three at the same time.

There have been others but those are the ones most remember because Bob did it first and Henry was the only one to hold all three at same time.

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Thanks for the info... Is there any boxer holding 4 lineal titles?
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Just Pac.

SaddoBoxer it is a possiblilty that Sugar Ray Leonard did because i know he held the the lin for the 147,160 and also 168 division already. But the only thing i am not sure of but you could argue that he was the lineal champion for both the 154 and the 175 if anyone knows let me know.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Thanks for the info... Is there any boxer holding 4 lineal titles?
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Yes

Name : Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao

1st : 112 Title from Chatchai Sasakul ( KO8 )

2nd : 126 From Marco Antonio Barrera ( TKO11 )

3rd : 130 Against Juan Manuel Marquez ( JMM & PAC are #1 and #2 its also for RING title/WBC SD12 )

4th : 140 Againts Ricky Hatton ( KO2 )

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Originally Posted by Mr140

SaddoBoxer it is a possiblilty that Sugar Ray Leonard did because i know he held the the lin for the 147,160 and also 168 division already. But the only thing i am not sure of but you could argue that he was the lineal champion for both the 154 and the 175 if anyone knows let me know.

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This is what I got... Hope it answers your question...

The Title Reigns of Sugar Ray Leonard

World Welterweight – TKO15 Wilfred Benitez: Following his debut into national consciousness as a Gold Medal member of the legendary 1976 U.S. Olympic team, Leonard (36-3-1, 25 KO) began a rapid rise through the Welterweight ranks. Turned pro in February 1977, he would ratchet 25 wins without a loss and challenging the undefeated WBC champion Benitez before his career was three years old. Over fifteen fast paced rounds, the two prodigious young talents would take turns making each other miss, Leonard doing a better job in the making his man pay department. A flash third round knockdown off a jab set the tone of the bout, Leonard always just a baby step ahead. In the fifteenth, an arguably debatable stoppage was called as Leonard teed off in the closing seconds, referee Carlos Padilla perhaps caught up in a still growing aura. After one defense against Dave Green, Leonard would split two memorable, for wildly different reasons better discussed elsewhere, fights with Roberto Duran to lose and regain his throne. And, beyond doubt, it was the true throne in the class. The lineage for both of Leonard’s Welterweight crowns was the same as the lineage discussed for Duran earlier in this series (though discussed slightly in error previously; the line traced to Curtis Cokes and not Virgil Akins). In 1982, he would remove any doubt to the strength of his claim by stopping undefeated WBA champion Thomas Hearns in a classic.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title


World Junior Middleweight – TKO9 Ayub Kalule: Between regaining and the cementing his second Welterweight claim, Leonard made a brief sojourn up the scale for a showdown with undefeated WBA Jr. Middleweight champion Ayub Kalule, then undefeated in 36 contests. It turned into a tougher fight than many expected with the tough Ugandan-by-way-of Denmark holding his own for awhile. Eventually, fighting often at close quarters, Leonard would prove too much for Kalule, breaking him down in the ninth round to force the stoppage. Again, while only holding a single belt, there was little to dispute about the lineage of the title. Kalule descended in a straight line to the late 1960s undisputed reign of Freddie Little and, when Leonard chose to vacate, the lineage would go hazy until at least late into the run of Terry Norris.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title


World Middleweight – SD12 Marvin Hagler: The debates continue, unabated, over twenty years later. Two of the judges at ringside (Lou Filipo and Dave Moretti) scored either way at a reasonable 115-113, or seven rounds to five. The third judge, Jo Jo Guerra, turned in a 118-110 (10-2) score for Leonard so absurd as to remain one of the great black marks in Boxing history. The fight demanded a third rational score; without one, it has been left to the fans to make their own and that’s probably the fun of this legendary fight. No matter which way anyone scored or scores it, the official result stands and no one can argue Marvin Hagler, one of the best Middleweights of all time at the end of over six years as champion, was anything but the one, true Middleweight champion on Earth even if he’d been, by fight time, stripped down to just his WBC belt.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title


WBC Super Middleweight/WBC Light Heavyweight – TKO9 Donny Lalonde: This is where the razzle-dazzle comes into play. Three days after Hearns snatched the WBO crown at 168 lbs. to mark his fifth divisional title, Leonard entered this odd affair on November 7, 1988 against WBC Light Heavyweight titlist Lalonde. Somehow, this was also made for the new WBC crown at 168 and given the payday at hand, Lalonde agreed to come in below 170 lbs. for the first time since 1986. After a strong start which included a knockdown, Lalonde faded as Leonard found a series of showstopping shots to down Lalonde in the ninth. Let’s be serious though. The lineage at 168, as previously discussed in looking at Roy Jones, belonged to Chong-Pal Park. One fight later, he would be worked over for a ‘draw’ even Leonard will admit these days was a loss in a unification tilt with Hearns. Furthermore, while not a bad fighter, Lalonde was at least a step down from fellow 175 lb. titlists Charles Williams (IBF) and Virgil Hill (WBA); probably more like two steps to be fair. Leonard won a pair of belts on this night. There is no need to make more it than that.

Forecast: Hazy, real hazy, on both counts


Having never tried, Leonard fell short of being able to claim the four lineal World titles, though Leonard would have to have been favored had he gone after Park rather than picking up a vacant strap versus Lalonde. Favored, of course, is not the same as winning an actual fight and so he falls short of that accomplishment.

The easiest guy on the list is Berto especially considering how many shots he took against the southpaw Collazo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

The easiest guy on the list is Berto especially considering how many shots he took against the southpaw Collazo

---

Correct :thumb:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ASIAN SENSATION

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

The easiest guy on the list is Berto especially considering how many shots he took against the southpaw Collazo

---

Correct :thumb:

---

Berto vs. Urango for WBC 147 title on May 30... I agree, either of these 2 is the easiest fight for PAC to get his record 7th division title and will be the only boxer to do so...

Hope Arum can make this fight, PAC vs. winner of Berto/Urango...;)

Not to take anything away from the fighters of today because it isn't their rules but you can't compare this era of divisional titles to the old school fighters. Winning a belt in many divisions is nothing nowadays. There used to be only 8 weight classes and only 1 to 3 belts. Now you have more than double that many weight classes and a ridiculous amount of belts in each weight classes. This why you have so many fights not getting made because there are too many divisions and belts. Its easier to avoid and bring the business part of boxing running matchmaking. Most matches that should get made don't get made. It use to be almost a given the match would get made. Another thing about Pac is that the younger you start as a pro the better chance you'll grow into and past other divisions. At 16, he was just a boy and now he is 30 and in a full primed man's body. I only fought as an amateur but when I was 16 I won state Golden Gloves and boxed at 106 and by the time I quit boxing at the age of 30 I had boxed at and won tournaments at 106, 112, 119, 125, 132, 139, and 147. The weight classes are different now in the amateurs but I am not too big on myself winning in many divisions because I know I basically started before I was full grown and I stayed in the amateurs until my body was done developing as a prime man. Its not like I or any other boxers are weighing 10 pounds less than the weight class were are challenging at. Now there are always guys who are a bit bigger and smaller than the norm in each division but there is nothing magical here we fight at these weight classes because we are weighing at or around those weights. I am just pointing out the other side to why it is easy for boxers of this day to win more accolades and of course if you grow up in the pro ranks you'll be even more apt to grow into more divisions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

---

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

---

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

---

This article was written by Cliff Rold... I think he's an American and a credible boxing writer...

Cliff Rold is a member of the Ring Magazine Ratings Advisory Panel and the Boxing Writers Association of America. He can be reached at roldboxing AT hotmail.com if you have inquiries about his article...

BTW, below is the link to that article:

link --> Pacquiao Aims for Four (and Six): Real History Part 1 - Boxing News

;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

---

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

---

You need The Ring title to be recognised as lineal?

I thought the most bombproof method of lineal was "the man who beat the man?" The man who dethrones the champ?

You can trace Pac to the Kim-Chitlada fight.

Sot Chitalada-Yong Kang Kim-Sot Chitalada-Maungchai Kittikasem-Yuri Arbachakov-Chatchai Sasakul-Manny Pacquiao.

So are you saying because The Ring stop recognising champions the lineal heritage should be scrapped? That seems pretty fucked up man. :-\

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

---

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

---

You need The Ring title to be recognised as lineal?

I thought the most bombproof method of lineal was "the man who beat the man?" The man who dethrones the champ?

You can trace Pac to the Kim-Chitlada fight.

Sot Chitalada-Yong Kang Kim-Sot Chitalada-Maungchai Kittikasem-Yuri Arbachakov-Chatchai Sasakul-Manny Pacquiao.

So are you saying because The Ring stop recognising champions the lineal heritage should be scrapped? That seems pretty fucked up man. :-\

---

Thanks for the clarification mate...
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

---

You need The Ring title to be recognised as lineal?

I thought the most bombproof method of lineal was "the man who beat the man?" The man who dethrones the champ?

You can trace Pac to the Kim-Chitlada fight.

Sot Chitalada-Yong Kang Kim-Sot Chitalada-Maungchai Kittikasem-Yuri Arbachakov-Chatchai Sasakul-Manny Pacquiao.

So are you saying because The Ring stop recognising champions the lineal heritage should be scrapped? That seems pretty fucked up man. :-\

---

Thanks for the clarification mate...
.

---

I'm just trying to make some sense of this stupid hypocritical nonsense.

So far, I have Pac as a three time Ring champ and a three time lineal (man who beat the man) champ.

Just off to buy a new anorak :embarassed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

You need The Ring title to be recognised as lineal?

I thought the most bombproof method of lineal was "the man who beat the man?" The man who dethrones the champ?

You can trace Pac to the Kim-Chitlada fight.

Sot Chitalada-Yong Kang Kim-Sot Chitalada-Maungchai Kittikasem-Yuri Arbachakov-Chatchai Sasakul-Manny Pacquiao.

So are you saying because The Ring stop recognising champions the lineal heritage should be scrapped? That seems pretty fucked up man. :-\

---

Thanks for the clarification mate...
.

---

I'm just trying to make some sense of this stupid hypocritical nonsense.

So far, I have Pac as a three time Ring champ and a three time lineal (man who beat the man) champ.

Just off to buy a new anorak :embarassed:

---

At least you and Mick agreed that PAC is a 3-time lineal champ only with different set of divisions...;)

For that reason, I think PAC is really a 4-time lineal champ after all...;D Aside from Cliff Rold, ESPN's Dan Rafael also recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...;D Congrats PAC...

http://xs539.xs.to/xs539/09194/n487.jpg
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Thanks for the clarification mate...
.

---

I'm just trying to make some sense of this stupid hypocritical nonsense.

So far, I have Pac as a three time Ring champ and a three time lineal (man who beat the man) champ.

Just off to buy a new anorak :embarassed:

---

At least you and Mick agreed that PAC is a 3-time lineal champ only with different set of divisions...;)

For that reason, I think PAC is really a 4-time lineal champ after all...;D Aside from Cliff Rold, ESPN's Dan Rafael also recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...;D Congrats PAC...
.

---

If people agree the method for repairing a broken lineal link is the no.1 and no.2 fighting then Pac probably does have claims to four titles ;)

Who decides the top two though? :-\

Berto because he is hittable and hurtable. If hurtable is a word;Dcompared to the other welters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

I'm just trying to make some sense of this stupid hypocritical nonsense.

So far, I have Pac as a three time Ring champ and a three time lineal (man who beat the man) champ.

Just off to buy a new anorak :embarassed:

---

At least you and Mick agreed that PAC is a 3-time lineal champ only with different set of divisions...;)

For that reason, I think PAC is really a 4-time lineal champ after all...;D Aside from Cliff Rold, ESPN's Dan Rafael also recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...;D Congrats PAC...
.

---

If people agree the method for repairing a broken lineal link is the no.1 and no.2 fighting then Pac probably does have claims to four titles ;)

Who decides the top two though? :-\

---

Yep, that's the agreed way to do it... PAC a 4-time lineal champ...;)
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:

Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

---

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

---

This article was written by Cliff Rold... I think he's an American and a credible boxing writer...

Cliff Rold is a member of the Ring Magazine Ratings Advisory Panel and the Boxing Writers Association of America. He can be reached at roldboxing AT hotmail.com if you have inquiries about his article...

BTW, below is the link to that article:

link --> Pacquiao Aims for Four (and Six): Real History Part 1 - Boxing News

;)

---

Well he needs to be fired from his job.
What's even funnier is that he works for the Ring but doesn't realize that the Ring never recognized Yuri as their champ...
It's simple. Yuri was not the Ring/Lineal champ therefor Sasakuls win did not make him the lineal champ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I'll just post an article:
Pacquiao’s Title Resume

World Flyweight (112) – KO 8 Chatchai Sasakul: Turned professional at age 16 with a points win over Edmund Ignacio on January 22, 1995, Pacquiao would amass a record of 23-1 en route to his first major title win on December 4, 1999. The WBC recognized Sasakul as champion after a surprising upset of previous conqueror and long-time champion Yuri Arbachakov in 1997.

History also recognized Sasakul as king.

The WBC belt then, and still, also runs parallel to the lineal World championship at Flyweight all the way back to the reign of Miguel Canto. Fittingly, it took a championship bomb to begin Pacquiao’s collection of Gold. The more experienced Sasakul counter punched and outslicked the taller Pacquiao for much of the bout, though the youngster was never out of the fight. Pacquiao at 19 was much more a one-handed fighter then versus the better all-around warrior he’s become under the tutelage of Freddie Roach. Even then, that one hand, the left, was enough if it landed. It did and Sasakul was relieved of the top honors at 112 lbs.

There was one Flyweight during the reign of Arbachakov and later Sasakul who could make a strong case against recognizing the validity of recognizing their lineal claims to the top, but American Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson had moved up to capture gold at 115 lbs. some eight months before Pacquiao’s ascension.

Forecast: Clear, Lineal Claim to the World Title

---

Boxer,
Who typed this article?

What a crock of shit it is and whoever put it together needs to be slapped. It wouldn't shock me to know a Filipino writer put it together and going out on a wild guess here it's either you (or someone from that Pac site you guys post on)

It's funny because prior to Pac, todays Filipino fans didn't know about lineages and or the rich history of the sport. Now suddenly they know who beat whom and the whole history of the sport.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for fans supporting the sport and making it great but when people like the idiot who typed this article start doing things like this which is put WRONG/FALSE/INCORRECT info. that pisses me off.

He clearly does not understand what lineage means and is.

The WBC title went through so many names in the 80's that the lineage was lost somewhere along Chitlada-Kim as they traded the title.
After Chitladas win he no longer was the Ring Champ.
You can't claim lineage to a title because you picked up a strap. specialy when their is another title holder who just beat you.
Which was the case in the division.

The writer clearly leaves out that Yuri was never the Ring Champ. so there is absolutely NO lineage between Kittikasems win over Yuri.

Lineages are kept either by dethroning the champ and or #1 vs. #2 face off. As I mentioned Kim-Chitlada was the last lineage in the Fly division.

Pac has 3 lineage titles; Feather, Sup. Feather and Light Welter.
Which is great and Henry Armstrong would be proud of him.

---

You need The Ring title to be recognised as lineal?

I thought the most bombproof method of lineal was "the man who beat the man?" The man who dethrones the champ?

You can trace Pac to the Kim-Chitlada fight.

Sot Chitalada-Yong Kang Kim-Sot Chitalada-Maungchai Kittikasem-Yuri Arbachakov-Chatchai Sasakul-Manny Pacquiao.

So are you saying because The Ring stop recognising champions the lineal heritage should be scrapped? That seems pretty fucked up man. :-\

---

Well the Ring are the people who created lineal champs.
How else are we to keep track.
Let me give you and example.
For the sake of the debate here...
Daisuke Naito can claim he's the Flyweight lineal champ because he can 'supposably' be traced back to "The Man who Beat the Man"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Aside from Cliff Rold, ESPN's Dan Rafael also recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...;D Congrats PAC...

---

Cliff Rold has really shown his smarts on lineage to me.
As I stated above by his viewing Daisuke Naito is the Lineal Flyweight champ. ???

Dan Rafael... PPPLU-EAAAAASE!
Rafael also recognized Joel Julio as the greatest thing since Port-A-Potties and yet here we are couple years later and Julio is well... Not so great to say the least.