after watching more of Marquez and Mayweather.

I am starting to re believe that Mayweather will win this pretty one sidedly. I know what I wrote before, but Mayweather has been fighting bigger guys lately and thats likely the main reason he has become so defensive minded, pulling up his stuff from when he was at 130,135,140. He has too much speed(at that time he was significantly faster than Pacquiao) too much accuracy, and he's still so hard to hit. Though Manny has made great strides towards becoming more of a complete fighter, he is still sort of like a train, he doesn't get off as a quick as he throws combinations. Whereas Mayweather is the opposite, against Manny he can catch him off guard if you beat him to the punch, but against Mayweather he will likely still be able to land before you even if he starts his punch after you do, and in all likely hood get out of the way or roll most of the damage off the punch being thrown.

But it wasn't so much from watching Mayweather, but Marquez that makes me feel Mayweather will be too much, watching Marquez against Chris John, Barrera, Casamayor makes me feel that Marquez is 1) isn't as effective against conventionally trained fighters as he is against Manny if you compare the natural skill level of Manny and Casamayor for example. 2) Marquez was being hit by guys who threw punches conventionally who were way slower than MAyweather, IMO Mayweather will be able to land at will, and likely be too far away by the time Marquez tries to counter.

The differences between Mayweather and Manny
1) Mayweather is always in balance when fighting orthodox fighters. This means no catching him out of position like Marquez did. This means he can get in and out quicker than Manny can because he won't have to regain his balance.
2) Mayweather will have a jab that can land quicker than Manny get land that left cross off, as quick as he does it, but once again a jab like Floyd's doesn't leave you open, and he is also so good at changing into a lead hook. This along with his height and freakishly long arms makes it hard for Marquez to find a rhythm because Mayweather throws a stiff, solid jab.
3) Counter punching: Mayweather is in a different league than Manny in this regard, if he is as sharp as he was before his retirement(he has been training since december) he will be hitting Marquez in situations nobody else has been able to, and Mayweather always finds a way to escape unscathed when he is countering punching. This has dispirited everyone he has ever foughten, including guys like Baldomir who walked through the harder punching Judah and Vernon Forest's punches because he was able to land, within 4 roudns with Mayweather he was totally discouraged until Mayweather hurt his right hand and wasn't able to throw with any conviction.
4) Defense: Mayweather is so hard to hit, I am not sure if this will discourage Marquez, but he won't be able to 1 punch Mayweather, and he won't be landing like he has with anyone else. The one certainty is that you won't land consistently on Mayweather all night. Even Judah who was countering well early wasn't able to land very much once Mayweather made his adjustments, but Judah has speed and timing that nobody Mayweather will ever encounter will possess(unless he fights Berto).
5) Size: not that Mayweather will use his size on Marquez, but that Marquez's size won't intimidate Mayweather from fighting how he is suppose to fight like he used to at 140 and below. You won't see Floyd fighting out of a shell uber defensively, you will see a closer version to the guy who fought G. Hernandez, Sosa, Corrales, etc. He won't be scared to throw punches, to mix it up, and he will really be able to let his speed loose in ways he hasn't for the last few years at 147 and above against a lot bigger guys who he tried to avoid trading with at all costs.

Anyways All in all I am starting to see that Mayweather has too many advantages for this to be a close fight.

I would like some feedback, I want to see what some of the Marquez fans think about this and what advantages they feel MArquez will have, I promise I won't be condescending. THis is an interesting matchup, and maybe the first time we will see Mayweather in a really boxing match of minds where its fought in the middle of the ring with a guy who is fast, talented, dangerous, and as close in skill as anyone in the sport to Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I would like some feedback, I want to see what some of the Marquez fans think about this and what advantages they feel MArquez will have, I promise I won't be condescending. THis is an interesting matchup, and maybe the first time we will see Mayweather in a really boxing match of minds where its fought in the middle of the ring with a guy who is fast, talented, dangerous, and as close in skill as anyone in the sport to Mayweather.

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This fight can be boring mainly because of PBF's style of figthing.

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Originally Posted by happytrip

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I would like some feedback, I want to see what some of the Marquez fans think about this and what advantages they feel MArquez will have, I promise I won't be condescending. THis is an interesting matchup, and maybe the first time we will see Mayweather in a really boxing match of minds where its fought in the middle of the ring with a guy who is fast, talented, dangerous, and as close in skill as anyone in the sport to Mayweather.

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This fight can be boring mainly because of PBF's style of figthing.

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It could be, but I see it being an exciting fight if Mayweather is willing to box like he used to.

It's not a fair fight, I said that from the start, Floyd is too big, too fast and too strong, not to mention a better boxer and I think it will be as one sided as you.

Here's an overly simple way to look at it:

Marquez just had a life-and-death fight with Juan Diaz. And I think we'd all agree that there's a significant gap between a 135-pound Juan Diaz and a ~144-pound Floyd Mayweather.

The agressor in this fight might likewise be the winner... therefore a draw is not too far fetched! ;)

This is going to be no doubt a hard fight for Marquez, he is going to have to go all out and give his best performance yet if he wants to put up a fight.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Here's an overly simple way to look at it:

Marquez just had a life-and-death fight with Juan Diaz. And I think we'd all agree that there's a significant gap between a 135-pound Juan Diaz and a ~144-pound Floyd Mayweather.

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While I agree 100% on your view (and who wouldn't)

It can easily be countered with styles.

There is a significant gap between the style that Diaz brings and the style that PBF brings.
Unless you expect PBF to come out like Diaz.

I don't know why everyone is so down on this match, I think it's a great one. Let's face it Floyd could have come back & made money off us fighting some standard tune-up material like Said Ouali before fighting Pacquiao, instead he's coming back & fighting a guy who many consider the best fighter in the sport, and who has proven the doubters wrong time & time again. There is also a great level of respect between them going by the press conference. Yes, he could have fought a welterweight, but Marquez wanted the fight, so would you rather see them go at it or Floyd against a 2nd rate welter? I also don't think Marquez is out of it, the guy has never had a definitive loss throughout his career & I think almost has nothing to lose against Floyd unless he gets blown out in a round which won't happen.

As a good of a fighter that Marquez is, I don't think that he'll pose any problems for Floyd's style. Even when Floyd is in range, he's great at reducing surface area for his opponents to hit, or he'll block or avoid the punch altogether. IMO, controlling distance is where he excels the most, he'll circle and stay just out of range, and potshot the hell out of his opponents until something better comes up.

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

The aggressor in this fight might likewise be the winner... therefore a draw is not too far fetched! ;)

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Catch Weight (weight-in 144)

Time of fight:
Marquez works hard n the Gym? 140ish
Mayweather 152-154

Marquez gets hit by a guy ~14 lbs weighing more than him.... do the math!

I see Mayweather a big favourite in this fight, for the same simple reason sweetpea gave that he's struggled with lesser boxers that were considerably smaller. Just cos Pac carried his speed and power up the divisions doesn't mean everyone can.

IMO it's also cynical matchmaking. People were screaming blue murder when Oscar signed to fight a feather who recently moved to light at Welter, yet Floyd does exactly the same thing. Yes Pac dealt with him, but it's been pretty much universally accepted that the no.1 reason for the victory was due to him being totally washed up at 147. He also said in the interview that his targets after JMM were again the smaller Pac (of course prior to his devastating win on Sat night) and even Oscar cos they make money together (I'll admit that may have been tongue in cheek as he's playing the bad guy again.).

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Originally Posted by Kel

It's not a fair fight, I said that from the start, Floyd is too big, too fast and too strong, not to mention a better boxer and I think it will be as one sided as you.

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Tune-up fights aren't supposed to be a fair fight... I consider this one as a tune-up fight for PBF and he's a heavy favorite (4 to 1) to win this one... PBF is expected to defeat JMM...
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Originally Posted by Bomp

I see Mayweather a big favourite in this fight, for the same simple reason sweetpea gave that he's struggled with lesser boxers that were considerably smaller. Just cos Pac carried his speed and power up the divisions doesn't mean everyone can.

IMO it's also cynical matchmaking. People were screaming blue murder when Oscar signed to fight a feather who recently moved to light at Welter, yet Floyd does exactly the same thing. Yes Pac dealt with him, but it's been pretty much universally accepted that the no.1 reason for the victory was due to him being totally washed up at 147. He also said in the interview that his targets after JMM were again the smaller Pac (of course prior to his devastating win on Sat night) and even Oscar cos they make money together (I'll admit that may have been tongue in cheek as he's playing the bad guy again.).

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Most of that stuff he said was tongue in cheek, when asked seriously afterwards, he said the only fighter he was focused on was JMM because he thinks that bar himself he is the best fighter in the world. The fact is it was Marquez who called for the fight & he got it. The Mosley fight is not actually out of the question, but both are probably waiting on Pacquiao first

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

The aggressor in this fight might likewise be the winner... therefore a draw is not too far fetched! ;)

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Catch Weight (weight-in 144)

Time of fight:
Marquez works hard n the Gym? 140ish
Mayweather 152-154

Marquez gets hit by a guy ~14 lbs weighing more than him.... do the math!

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When has Mayweather ever weighed 152-154? The most he ever weighed in at was 150 for Oscar, and he actually lost a pound come fight night by unofficial reports (He wanted to weigh-in, but Oscar didn't want to show how much bigger he was(which was reportedly 163ish). I have never seen Mayweather fight at more than 6 pounds heavier than the weigh-in. That means there will be no significant weight difference between him and Marquez, Mayweather hasn't had to dehydrate for a weigh-in since fighting at 135. Since then he has always weighed in, within 3 pounds of what he entered the ring at.

Besides in terms of weight, its only a disadvantage for Mayweather weigh more. He wants to be as quick as possible because thats where his advantage lies, and Marquez being naturally smaller actually has an advantage in weighing less because it will give him better speed. Weight helps with 2 things 1) Strength 2) Power. Mayweather won't hit harder than Marquez at 143 because he doesn't really sink into his shots, and he doesn't physically impose himself on guys so his strength won't play a huge factor in the fight.

What will is his talent. These are two p4p greats, and this fight will be decided on who is the better boxer, and IMO Mayweather isn't vastly superior, but clearly superior, and too much quicker.

Much as I would like Marquez to win this fight, my head says Mayweather is likely to TKO Marquez in the late rounds.

MAyweather has all the apparent advantages ( height, reach, speed, and even skill). No doubt Marquez has sweet counter punching but PBF has all the defensive skills to neutralize that.

This has the making of a boring fight to casual boxing fans but for me, this is one very exciting fight.

Regardless of who will win in this fight, imagine the fight that will come after this.

PBF vs Pac . Whew!!!!

Pac vs JMM. A trilogy to settle once and for all.

I'm salivating!!!:cool:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Here's an overly simple way to look at it:

Marquez just had a life-and-death fight with Juan Diaz. And I think we'd all agree that there's a significant gap between a 135-pound Juan Diaz and a ~144-pound Floyd Mayweather.

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While I agree 100% on your view (and who wouldn't)

It can easily be countered with styles.

There is a significant gap between the style that Diaz brings and the style that PBF brings.
Unless you expect PBF to come out like Diaz.

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Styles make fights, for sure.

But as a counterpuncher, I think Marquez does better against someone like Diaz who comes right at him and gives him countering opportunities, as opposed to someone like Floyd.

It just makes me mad that right now the size difference between Mosley and Mayweather is probably greater or at least the same as Mayweather against Marquez, and Mosley would definitely use his size against Mayweather, yet nobody would talk about Mayweather being at a huge disadvantage, nor would that be considered a elligible excuse if Floyd were to lose to Mosley. Mayweather because of his skill and speed is automatically assumed to have every advantage over bigger guys, smaller guys, guys the same size as him. I can't think of one time in his fights against Baldomir, De La Hoya, and/or Hatton where people couldn't make an excuse. De La HOya was way past his prime and didn't jab enough despite the fact he just destroyed Mayorga and had a belt at 154 a weight that was way above Mayweather natural weight class. Baldomir was 14 pounds heavier than Mayweather and people seemed to forget that when Mayweather was able to make him look stupid. When MAyweather was fighting at 140 Hatton was considered to be bigger and stronger than anything/anybody Mayweather had ever faced, but when Mayweather moved up even more it was Hatton who was at a disadvantage because 147 wasn't his natural weight, despite that fact that Mayweather was 2 or 3 weight classes above what he could have been.

I for one am glad that MAyweather is facing Marquez instead of Cotto or Mosley, I would like to see him fight somewhere that isn't off the ropes once again, see him in an actual boxing fight where its not a some huge guy who uses largely their size and strength to try and bully Mayweather around as he potshots them and makes them miss off the ropes which half of the boxing fans don't appreciate. I've seen Mayweather do this the last 3 fights, and I want to see him stick that great jab he has, lean back and counter over his opponent's jab, or throw combinations with mean intention because he knows the guy is his size and they won't walk through anything he can dish out. Hatton was closer to Mayweather's size, but because he bum rushed Mayweather like he was suppose to, Floyd wasn't able to get off quite like he will be able to against Marquez. Against Oscar, mayweather largely stood his ground, but Oscar fought well defensively and was too powerful it seemed for Mayweather to be comfortable enough to let his hands go, it wasn't until late that MAyweather actually did let leather fly, and predictably Oscar had no answers. Against Baldomir, Mayweather landed anything he wanted and when his hand was hurt he was still too fast for Carlos to land anything.

I really hope/think Marquez will bring out the best in Floyd, even if its not overly competitive, I think Floyd will bring his A-game like he always does, but he will actually be able to implement the offensive arsenal that he hasn't shown since the Judah fight.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

It just makes me mad that right now the size difference between Mosley and Mayweather is probably greater or at least the same as Mayweather against Marquez, and Mosley would definitely use his size against Mayweather, yet nobody would talk about Mayweather being at a huge disadvantage, nor would that be considered a elligible excuse if Floyd were to lose to Mosley. Mayweather because of his skill and speed is automatically assumed to have every advantage over bigger guys, smaller guys, guys the same size as him. I can't think of one time in his fights against Baldomir, De La Hoya, and/or Hatton where people couldn't make an excuse. De La HOya was way past his prime and didn't jab enough despite the fact he just destroyed Mayorga and had a belt at 154 a weight that was way above Mayweather natural weight class. Baldomir was 14 pounds heavier than Mayweather and people seemed to forget that when Mayweather was able to make him look stupid. When MAyweather was fighting at 140 Hatton was considered to be bigger and stronger than anything/anybody Mayweather had ever faced, but when Mayweather moved up even more it was Hatton who was at a disadvantage because 147 wasn't his natural weight, despite that fact that Mayweather was 2 or 3 weight classes above what he could have been.

I for one am glad that MAyweather is facing Marquez instead of Cotto or Mosley, I would like to see him fight somewhere that isn't off the ropes once again, see him in an actual boxing fight where its not a some huge guy who uses largely their size and strength to try and bully Mayweather around as he potshots them and makes them miss off the ropes which half of the boxing fans don't appreciate. I've seen Mayweather do this the last 3 fights, and I want to see him stick that great jab he has, lean back and counter over his opponent's jab, or throw combinations with mean intention because he knows the guy is his size and they won't walk through anything he can dish out. Hatton was closer to Mayweather's size, but because he bum rushed Mayweather like he was suppose to, Floyd wasn't able to get off quite like he will be able to against Marquez. Against Oscar, mayweather largely stood his ground, but Oscar fought well defensively and was too powerful it seemed for Mayweather to be comfortable enough to let his hands go, it wasn't until late that MAyweather actually did let leather fly, and predictably Oscar had no answers. Against Baldomir, Mayweather landed anything he wanted and when his hand was hurt he was still too fast for Carlos to land anything.

I really hope/think Marquez will bring out the best in Floyd, even if its not overly competitive, I think Floyd will bring his A-game like he always does, but he will actually be able to implement the offensive arsenal that he hasn't shown since the Judah fight.

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Taeth, you make great points. People refuse to see that PBF is no welterweight. He just fought at that weight class. He'll never get the credit for being the smaller fighter. PBF is really a 140 pound fighter. But when money calls he'll go to even 154. And good way to point out the size difference between Mosley and Mayweather that no ones sees. It is about the same difference as PBF and JMM but PBF is getting ridiculed for finally being the bigger fighter. I do think JMM will make the fight interesting for 5 or 6 rounds but I also do remember when PBF was the bigger man he would be much more offensive. I'd like to see that again.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Bomp

I see Mayweather a big favourite in this fight, for the same simple reason sweetpea gave that he's struggled with lesser boxers that were considerably smaller. Just cos Pac carried his speed and power up the divisions doesn't mean everyone can.

IMO it's also cynical matchmaking. People were screaming blue murder when Oscar signed to fight a feather who recently moved to light at Welter, yet Floyd does exactly the same thing. Yes Pac dealt with him, but it's been pretty much universally accepted that the no.1 reason for the victory was due to him being totally washed up at 147. He also said in the interview that his targets after JMM were again the smaller Pac (of course prior to his devastating win on Sat night) and even Oscar cos they make money together (I'll admit that may have been tongue in cheek as he's playing the bad guy again.).

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Most of that stuff he said was tongue in cheek, when asked seriously afterwards, he said the only fighter he was focused on was JMM because he thinks that bar himself he is the best fighter in the world. The fact is it was Marquez who called for the fight & he got it. The Mosley fight is not actually out of the question, but both are probably waiting on Pacquiao first

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Skill wise he maybe right about the next best fighter being Jmm.
We all know a great 'big fighter' will 95% of the time beat a great little fighter though. Its a real tough job ahead of Juan and his team, the preparation to get everything as close as they can without losing an edge will be borderline.Could be a quick fight or even a nasty one for Jmm with that Mexican heart and chin.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

It just makes me mad that right now the size difference between Mosley and Mayweather is probably greater or at least the same as Mayweather against Marquez, and Mosley would definitely use his size against Mayweather, yet nobody would talk about Mayweather being at a huge disadvantage, nor would that be considered a elligible excuse if Floyd were to lose to Mosley.

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This is a good point.

For his fights at welter, Floyd usually walks to the ring at the exact same weight that he weighs in at. He doesn't rehydrate at all. Whereas when Mosley fought Maragrito, they weighed-in at 147, but they both walked to the ring at 160. So in other words, they were a full 2 weight classes bigger than Floyd.

I agree that Mayweather will win a easy snooze fest against Marquez. Assuming it's on PPV, I won't buy the fight.

As for Mayweather/Pac, I think that at this point, there isn't much of a size difference between Mayweather and Pac. We've discussed this before, and I know you know the importance of matchups and what we learned from the Judah fight.

The matchup is what makes this fight interesting. Yes, Floyd's jab is faster than Pac's straight right, but the right hits harder. Judges prefer Pac's style and I don't think he will fold mentally. I also think that if anybody can come up with a game plan to beat Mayweather, it's Roach.

Sure, I think there is a good chance that Floyd will catch Pac and stop him. I'm not picking Pac. This might be counter intuitive, but I'm not sure I see Mayweather winning a decision. Pac will go out on his shield before he lets Floyd outpoint him. Mayweather by KO or Pac by close decision.

Taeth you make some excellent points.