Roach says "Manny will fight shane at 142 not 147"

After reading this article I'm convinced that roach knew ODLH was done and he knew making him come down to 147 to fight manny would basically make him look like the zombie he was...

Now as far as making Shane drop five pounds when he hasn't been that small since 1999, is another example of roach knowing that kind of weight loss would do just enough to give Manny the slight edge in terms of conditioning. This to me should be viewed in the same light as Floyd being accused of "cherry picking". But at least floyd went up to 154 to fight oscar which is why oscar looked so much better against floyd. Manny should fight the WW's at 147 or the LWW's at 140....this catch weight shit is ridiculous esp when he soundedly beat a "game" oscar... ;D


Freddie Roach Talks Mayweather, Marquez, Mosley & More | TheSweetScience.com Boxing

pacman would beat shane at 142 and 147 imo shanes past it now

I might be in the minority, but I will give Pac very little credit (if any) for beating fighters well below their fighting weight. Mosley at 142 would be as much, if not more, of a corpse than ODH was, I feel the same way about Cotto at 140 (even fucking Malignaggi was able to rock him when he was weight drained) or ever 144/145.

Pac is good enough (one of the best ever IMO) to challenge his opponents at their natural weight. He doesn't need to resort to this kind of bullshit.

142 is not realistic for Mosley to reach & still be effective, 145 sure... Is Roach trying to find some way to avoid Mosley?

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

142 is not realistic for Mosley to reach & still be effective, 145 sure... Is Roach trying to find some way to avoid Mosley?

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Mosely is a bad match up for Pac, just too much strength when bigger. So I think, yes. I don't blame him for only accepting with a compromise.

142 is bullshit. No way should Mosley agree to that weight.

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

142 is not realistic for Mosley to reach & still be effective, 145 sure... Is Roach trying to find some way to avoid Mosley?

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Mosely is a bad match up for Pac, just too much strength when bigger. So I think, yes. I don't blame him for only accepting with a compromise.

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I agree but 142 doesn't seem realistic & would be unwise for Mosley to attemp imo

I'd much rather see Mosley/ Williams anyway, so let Pacquiao take on someone like Bradley while awaiting the winner of Mayweather/ Marquez

This is getting old and everybody has to be catching on to this tactic. Wanting these guys at weights they realistically aren't effective at??? They haven't been there in years. Roach is very crafty but come on man. Mosley would be an easy victim at 142. He barely makes 147 nowadays in his older age. Like one post said, Roach needs to fight welterweights at welterweight or don't talk about it at all. Pac is nice but don't try to play the public and the boxers. Cutting too much weight is the single worst disadvantage in boxing. It is better to fight bigger buys than to come down too much. Especially at an advanced age. I did that once and you feel like a hollow body. Flat, no strength, weak legs, light headed, etc. I never said anything to my coaches but for the first time before a bout I wanted no parts of fighting. Its terrible. Roach knows Mosley is all wrong for Pac and 142 is the answer. I'd rather Pac just continue his career with the 140 pounders. Cotto and Mosley wouldn't even be formidable opponents at less than 147. Maybe even worse than DLH at 147.

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Originally Posted by blegit

This is getting old and everybody has to be catching on to this tactic. Wanting these guys at weights they realistically aren't effective at??? They haven't been there in years. Roach is very crafty but come on man. Mosley would be an easy victim at 142. He barely makes 147 nowadays in his older age. Like one post said, Roach needs to fight welterweights at welterweight or don't talk about it at all. Pac is nice but don't try to play the public and the boxers. Cutting too much weight is the single worst disadvantage in boxing. It is better to fight bigger buys than to come down too much. Especially at an advanced age. I did that once and you feel like a hollow body. Flat, no strength, weak legs, light headed, etc. I never said anything to my coaches but for the first time before a bout I wanted no parts of fighting. Its terrible. Roach knows Mosley is all wrong for Pac and 142 is the answer. I'd rather Pac just continue his career with the 140 pounders. Cotto and Mosley wouldn't even be formidable opponents at less than 147. Maybe even worse than DLH at 147.

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100% agreed...i wouldn't give manny any credit for beating a weight drained 38 year old mosley..and give mosley all the credit if he beat pacman...roach knows he can fool the public with that "it's only five pounds", bullshit. Hell i think floyd would be ineffective at 142 and he's only been at 147 a few years.

word.

honestly if Roach really said this BS i think it's completely moronic, Manny wants to play the angle of being the only 7 weight champion by winning a welterweight strap, well he'd have to do it at 147, and if Shane's the one with the status of champ at that weight, well Manny has to meet Mosley's terms not vice versa

I saw the video of Roach saying this too, Shane should never fight below 147 for anyone it would seriously do him no good at all. I'd give Pac a lot of credit for fighting any natural 147 guy but not at silly catch weights.

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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than if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshit

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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I honestly can't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded sentence.

However, to address your other point: weight-advantages have always been a part of boxing, obviously. However, there is a huge difference between fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight-class (ie. Hatton - Lazcano) and fighting a weight-drained opponent. Your post seems to demonstrate that you don't understand how much being weight-drained affects a fighter, it has a much greater impact than that of a fighter competing well above his natural weight, though both are detrimental. If Pac is fighting guys (particularly older opponents) at a weight in which they haven't been able to fight for years, it very much detracts from the victory as it would be contested in a vastly uneven way. If Pac fights and beats (or even looks good in losing) fighters like Cotto and Mosley, I'll give him a ton of credit. However, if he forces them to meet at a completely unfair catchweight, then in my mind it negates much of the glory associated with the victory.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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than if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshit

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He can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)
.

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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Here's the difference. Roach is putting all these weight requirements like DLH had to come down to 147, Mosley has to come down to 142, Cotto has to come down to 140, etc. These guys haven't been able to make these weights in many years! This isn't a Paul Williams or Ricky Hatton coming to a "weight class" and fighting guys at that weight class and it working out as them being the bigger fighter. Paul and Ricky have been making these weights and have been effective there. That is the real difference. Roach is asking full fledged bigger guys to come down to a point where they are weight drained and ineffective. Do you notice he has a different weight for each of the 3 fighters? That is his guess at where they will be weight drained. He gladly fought DLH at 147 but a real welterweight he all of a sudden won't. Hell, if Bernard Hopkins came down to welterweight I'd fight him. It sounds good on paper having that name on your resume but thats it.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
.

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These aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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than if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshit

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He can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)
.

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No...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
.

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These aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.

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As I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...

Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.

If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
.

Roach tries to give an edge, not juzz a slight one, to Pacquiao or the weight differences sicne Pacquiao can take it so well.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

than if he wants a catch weight he should drop all this 7 weight class champion bullshit

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He can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)
.

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No...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?

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I agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)

For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

He can possibly get his 7th division title from a Urango or a Berto if he wants to and the only boxer to do so if successful (what a legacy!)... The 7th weight class title won't come from a Mosley or a Cotto or a Clottey...;)
.

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No...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?

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I agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)

For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
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I thought catchweight wer suppose to be so they can meet halfway in the middle not to give one fighter an advantage.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
.

---

These aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.

---

As I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...

Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.

If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
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You're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.

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Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

No...but a big fat "L " could ;)....Mosley should not and won't come down to a Pacquiao.Ever hear the tale of the man going to the well one to many times?

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I agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)

For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
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I thought catchweight wer suppose to be so they can meet halfway in the middle not to give one fighter an advantage.

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That is what a catchweight is suppose to be. And that is why Roach is not calling catchweights they are weight drained weights. These fighters can't make these weights and still be effective.

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by Manuel "Chubby" Medina

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

I agree, Mosley should not come down to a Pacquiao...;) If Mosley forces to come down to a Pacquiao, he could end up being pacquiao'ed...;)

For several months, Mosley been chasing the Pacquiao fight... He's not entertaining other fights but focusing only to a possible Pacquiao fight... He might give 142 a very very deep thought...;D
.

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I thought catchweight wer suppose to be so they can meet halfway in the middle not to give one fighter an advantage.

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That is what a catchweight is suppose to be. And that is why Roach is not calling catchweights they are weight drained weights. These fighters can't make these weights and still be effective.

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so its not a "catchweight" its juzz a "catch" thats kinda gay.:-\

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by blegit

These aren't catchweights they are weight drained weights. There is a real and dangerous difference.

---

As I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...

Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.

If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
.

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You're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.

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It's Mosley who's been chasing the Pacquiao fight... PAC's coach said it, he's just protecting his boxer... No need for PAC to fight Mosley at 147... PAC might just wait for the winner of PBF-JMM...

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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I honestly can't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded sentence.

However, to address your other point: weight-advantages have always been a part of boxing, obviously. However, there is a huge difference between fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight-class (ie. Hatton - Lazcano) and fighting a weight-drained opponent. Your post seems to demonstrate that you don't understand how much being weight-drained affects a fighter, it has a much greater impact than that of a fighter competing well above his natural weight, though both are detrimental. If Pac is fighting guys (particularly older opponents) at a weight in which they haven't been able to fight for years, it very much detracts from the victory as it would be contested in a vastly uneven way. If Pac fights and beats (or even looks good in losing) fighters like Cotto and Mosley, I'll give him a ton of credit. However, if he forces them to meet at a completely unfair catchweight, then in my mind it negates much of the glory associated with the victory.

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Ok, the Italic is my bad. I originally posted over a week ago that I heard a radio report that Roach told Mosley to come down to 142, but no one responded. I skimmed though this post in a rush on my way out the door and caught crap like "bullshit", "avoid Mosley". and didn't really pick up on your point of being weight-drained. I used Williams as an example of the obvious advantages some fighters have using weight to illustrate it's part of the game. I don't hear anyone saying Williams gets no respect for winning over guys at welter when his a more natural middle weight.

All Roach is doing is his job, which happens to include the issue of weight and negotiating around the terms of a Mega fight. Exactly what Mosley wants. Same as Dela Hoya / Pacquiao. When bargaining you start low, get a high counter offer and meet somewhere in the middle. 2 or 3 pounds below 147 shouldn't weigh-drain Mosley and will probably help him size wise over Pacquiao. Since Pacquiao has never come into the ring above 150. I never heard or read Pacquiao wouldn't fight Mosley at 147. I only heard him say 140 was a good weight for him.

I think Cotto is a better match up for Pacquiao than Mosley. Mosley has a huge reach advantage. If I were Roach, I'd do exactly the same thing. If Mosley wants the fight so bad, make him come down. It's just part of the game.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

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I honestly can't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded sentence.

However, to address your other point: weight-advantages have always been a part of boxing, obviously. However, there is a huge difference between fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight-class (ie. Hatton - Lazcano) and fighting a weight-drained opponent. Your post seems to demonstrate that you don't understand how much being weight-drained affects a fighter, it has a much greater impact than that of a fighter competing well above his natural weight, though both are detrimental. If Pac is fighting guys (particularly older opponents) at a weight in which they haven't been able to fight for years, it very much detracts from the victory as it would be contested in a vastly uneven way. If Pac fights and beats (or even looks good in losing) fighters like Cotto and Mosley, I'll give him a ton of credit. However, if he forces them to meet at a completely unfair catchweight, then in my mind it negates much of the glory associated with the victory.

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Ok, the Italic is my bad. I originally posted over a week ago that I heard a radio report that Roach told Mosley to come down to 142, but no one responded. I skimmed though this post in a rush on my way out the door and caught crap like "bullshit", "avoid Mosley". and didn't really pick up on your point of being weight-drained. I used Williams as an example of the obvious advantages some fighters have using weight to illustrate it's part of the game. I don't hear anyone saying Williams gets no respect for winning over guys at welter when his a more natural middle weight.

All Roach is doing is his job, which happens to include the issue of weight and negotiating around the terms of a Mega fight. Exactly what Mosley wants. Same as Dela Hoya / Pacquiao. When bargaining you start low, get a high counter offer and meet somewhere in the middle. 2 or 3 pounds below 147 shouldn't weigh-drain Mosley and will probably help him size wise over Pacquiao. Since Pacquiao has never come into the ring above 150. I never heard or read Pacquiao wouldn't fight Mosley at 147. I only heard him say 140 was a good weight for him.

I think Cotto is a better match up for Pacquiao than Mosley. Mosley has a huge reach advantage. If I were Roach, I'd do exactly the same thing. If Mosley wants the fight so bad, make him come down. It's just part of the game.

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You make good sense but there are a lot of things in boxing that are just a part of the game that should be criticized and that is why so many people are criticizing Roach's bullcrap moves. The public wants to see good fighters make weight effectively. It warrants criticism by the masses. What if PBF said he would only fight Cotto at 140, Mosley at 142, and Williams at 143? People would shellack him with overwhelming criticism. These are welterweights fight them at 147 or stay in your division. Roach wants the name of the fighter and the fighter himself to be a shell. And Roach has said that he will not let Pac fight at 147 again. So according to his word there will be no fight at 147. What people are getting mad about is that Roach will let Pac fight at 147 but only if it is a junior middleweight or higher coming down. This in essence is saying that Pac will not fight a notable guy unless we have our way and our way is not just all the money but a weight drained fighter also. We might as well just skip the games and go to Pac/JMM III. Unless Roach feels like actually fighting more than one calculated guy at either 135,140, or 147. And Williams is not a natural middleweight he didn't even have to cut weight for his middleweight fights. Williams is just a freak of nature. A guy 6'2" with a heavyweight reach. He has to eat more during training camp when he fights at middle because he'll be too low. He usually comes into his fights around 157.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
.

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So first you say that Mosely wants to fight at 142 (It has nothing to do with getting a paid of course) and then you say that he has to fight at 142 because Pac is the bigger name right now.

:rolleyes:

Either way he is getting coaxed past his fighting weight with the promise of a massive Pay Day... Roach knows exactly what he is doing... don't see how even the biggest pac groupie can deny it.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
.

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So first you say that Mosely wants to fight at 142 (It has nothing to do with getting a paid of course) and then you say that he has to fight at 142 because Pac is the bigger name right now.

:rolleyes:

Either way he is getting coaxed past his fighting weight with the promise of a massive Pay Day... Roach knows exactly what he is doing... don't see how even the biggest pac groupie can deny it.

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No and no... Fact is it's Roach who wants Mosley to fight PAC at 142 and Mosley said he can't do it... End of story...

My post above didn't refer to any boxer or boxers in particular... It's a general opinion of mine that if a boxer agrees to fight at a certain agreed "catchweight" then of course that boxer believes that he can both make the weight and win the fight...

If the boxer thinks he can't make the weight and/or win the fight then he shouldn't accept the fight...;)
.

Mosley can no way make 142.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

As I've said, if the boxers agree to fight in a "weight-drained weight" then it's their sole responsibility to perform at that agreed "weight"... I think most of them agree to that "weight" and at the same time believed they can win the fight at that "weight"...

Some maybe are forced to agree to a certain "weight" but still accepted the fight because of other factors like money, moolah, dinero, fame, glory, legacy, etc.

If they (or their fans??) are really not comfortable of that certain "weight" then they should not accept the fight... Simple as that...
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You're right the fighters should not accept the fight at these weights. But call it what it is though. This is a tactful way of not fighting someone unless you can almost guarantee they are ineffective. I won't fight this fighter unless they come down to a weight they haven't seen in many years. And that was in their youth. This is worse than pricing yourself out of a fight. PBF is getting all kinds of criticism for fighting JMM at a catchweight. And thats a real catchweight. JMM will be the smaller fighter but neither will be drained. I do agree with Roach that JMM's power has seemed to step up with his weight developing.

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It's Mosley who's been chasing the Pacquiao fight... PAC's coach said it, he's just protecting his boxer... No need for PAC to fight Mosley at 147... PAC might just wait for the winner of PBF-JMM...

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He mentioned fighting Mosley before the Hatton fight.

If there is no need for Pac to fight him why say it's an option? If it's not an option say there is no way they'll fight not talk up some crap about a stupid 'catchweight'. Another thing if Roach gave a shit about other boxers he wouldn't insist on them dropping weight to fight Pac.

By rabbiting on in the public eye about it he is putting pressure on fighters to sign.

They should stick together and go tell Roach/Pac to screw themselves. If the other big names refuse these conditions Pas gets frozen out at true world level. They need to realise it takes two big names to make a fight legit.

Wanna play hardball? Come sign with Missy. I'll look after a fighter;D

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

After reading this article I'm convinced that roach knew ODLH was done and he knew making him come down to 147 to fight manny would basically make him look like the zombie he was...

Now as far as making Shane drop five pounds when he hasn't been that small since 1999, is another example of roach knowing that kind of weight loss would do just enough to give Manny the slight edge in terms of conditioning. This to me should be viewed in the same light as Floyd being accused of "cherry picking". But at least floyd went up to 154 to fight oscar which is why oscar looked so much better against floyd. Manny should fight the WW's at 147 or the LWW's at 140....this catch weight shit is ridiculous esp when he soundedly beat a "game" oscar... ;D


Freddie Roach Talks Mayweather, Marquez, Mosley & More | TheSweetScience.com Boxing

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I'm not a Pac man groupie, but to say that he is cherry picking like Mayweather is ridiculous.

Manny is stepping up in weight to fight bigger men. Mayweather makes smaller men step up in weight to fight him and not fighting any of the men who are natural at that weight. That's the difference. Case in point, Manny fought his first fight at 140 against the champion of the division, Hatton, who Mayweather fought at 147.

Manny is choosing who he fights, but that is boxing. And, look at his potential options: Cotto, Mosley, or Mayweather. Most boxing fans have wanted Floyd to fight Cotto or Mosley for at least two years, if not longer. Before the Hatton fight, after the Hatton fight pre-retirement, and before the un-retirement.

What is ridiculous is that Manny may actually fight Cotto before Mayweather does.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

After reading this article I'm convinced that roach knew ODLH was done and he knew making him come down to 147 to fight manny would basically make him look like the zombie he was...

Now as far as making Shane drop five pounds when he hasn't been that small since 1999, is another example of roach knowing that kind of weight loss would do just enough to give Manny the slight edge in terms of conditioning. This to me should be viewed in the same light as Floyd being accused of "cherry picking". But at least floyd went up to 154 to fight oscar which is why oscar looked so much better against floyd. Manny should fight the WW's at 147 or the LWW's at 140....this catch weight shit is ridiculous esp when he soundedly beat a "game" oscar... ;D


Freddie Roach Talks Mayweather, Marquez, Mosley & More | TheSweetScience.com Boxing

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I'm not a Pac man groupie, but to say that he is cherry picking like Mayweather is ridiculous.

Manny is stepping up in weight to fight bigger men. Mayweather makes smaller men step up in weight to fight him and not fighting any of the men who are natural at that weight. That's the difference. Case in point, Manny fought his first fight at 140 against the champion of the division, Hatton, who Mayweather fought at 147.

Manny is choosing who he fights, but that is boxing. And, look at his potential options: Cotto, Mosley, or Mayweather. Most boxing fans have wanted Floyd to fight Cotto or Mosley for at least two years, if not longer. Before the Hatton fight, after the Hatton fight pre-retirement, and before the un-retirement.

What is ridiculous is that Manny may actually fight Cotto before Mayweather does.

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its the same thing...Floyd isnt naturally 147 either, he moved up and beat the lineal champs at 147..ricky hatton moved up to challenge floyd for his p4p belt which is what all the smaller fighters are really fighting over, and since floyd is pound for pound the best in the sport anyone that wants to fight him should go to 147...this is like floyd challenging pavlik for the belt then demanding that he meet him at 155...

PACMAN fought oscar who was at 154 at WW...if he can fight a LMW then he can fight WWs its that simple..other than that ,the catch weight crap is just the same as roy jones demanding 100million to fight lennox lewis...just another way to get out of the fight...

and if cotto drops to 140 to fight PACMAN then it will be because arum and cottos people talked him into accepting the high risk/ high reward fight..besides cotto isn as old as PBF or SHANE..esp shane who hasn't been that small in over 10years...cotto might be able to handle the weight loss better than the older two fighters..which is probably why roach demands that cotto drops the most weight out of the three...its the same as pricing yourself out....floyd might consider the catchweight because he's arrongant enough to do it..but shane and cotto would only be doing it for the mega bucks...

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

He's just starting low. It's negotiating. If they fight it will probably be at 144.

Shane won't take the fight if it's at a weight where he can't be 100% and if he does, then more fool him.

The fighters have to take some responsibility somewhere down the line.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

BTW, what's the fuzz about catchweights?? If the boxers agreed to fight in a catchweight then he believed he can win that fight in that catchweight...

Or he was forced to agree to a catchweight because the other boxer has more say, has more negotiating power, more popular and dictates the conditions of the fight...

Simple as that...
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So first you say that Mosely wants to fight at 142 (It has nothing to do with getting a paid of course) and then you say that he has to fight at 142 because Pac is the bigger name right now.

:rolleyes:

Either way he is getting coaxed past his fighting weight with the promise of a massive Pay Day... Roach knows exactly what he is doing... don't see how even the biggest pac groupie can deny it.

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No and no... Fact is it's Roach who wants Mosley to fight PAC at 142 and Mosley said he can't do it... End of story...

My post above didn't refer to any boxer or boxers in particular... It's a general opinion of mine that if a boxer agrees to fight at a certain agreed "catchweight" then of course that boxer believes that he can both make the weight and win the fight...

If the boxer thinks he can't make the weight and/or win the fight then he shouldn't accept the fight...;)
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yeah and my point is that even if they have doubts over making the weight or performing well at it, the millions of dollars that are on the table are enough to make them reconsider... Roach knows this which is why he's trying to talk these guys down so Pac can look good against another weight drained Marquee name...

If Roach is so confident in Pac's ability against these bigger fighters he should be letting them fight at their weight... so they won't fuck about.
Fight against 147 pound fighters or fight against 140 pound fighters... either way just shut your face and do it properly.

Exactly JT... you don't see PBF dragging ODLH down a weight class or even knocking a few pounds off 154 and having a catchweight.

FLoyd wasn't big enough to get to 154... he knew he was going to come in at 149-150 but he let oscar fight at his weight anyway.

One things for sure: Oscar didn't have to rehydrate using an IV line against Floyd... shame he did against Pacquio.