Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
The recent announcement that Mosley may fight Pacquiao got me thinking. Does the winner of Pac-Mosley fights the winner of Mayweather-JMM? My first thought was, I hope so. Both fights at Welterweight, all p4p top guys. Then I thought about how the fights would go down. Honestly, thought it will probably never happen, the thought of JMM-Mosley really puts things into perspective for me. That a fight that I could see Marquez getting seriously hurt. Im sure people would justify that as a legit fight. The reality of this is that, historically, fighters that jump up in weight late into their career, end up getting beaten on by bigger men...some even taking damage that effects them well after their boxing career ended. I think Pac jumping up 2 weights to beat Oscar in what was a fight under unusual circumstances, created a situation where fighters and promoters think there is no problem with a fighter jumping two weight classes to fight the best. Dont get me wrong, I have no problem with a fighter going up in weight, I think they should, but it should be gradual. I also think that a fighter should put on weight as he grows into a new weight class and is maturing. I dont think it is good for the health of an old fighter to jump two weight classes and take on a younger, stronger guy. I think a lot of poeple are mistaken by thinking Pacquioao fought at welterweight, so Marquez can too. Manny is younger and grew naturally into a 140lb fighter. I still dont think he should be at 147 and he got lucky fighting an old, weak man. Marquez is older and topped off at 135. He could probably compete at 140 as well at the most, though even that could cause him problems as he would still be a blown up lightweight. Anything above that is no good if hes fighting a younger guy who grew into a 147lb body. Im a big Marquez fan and im pulling for him requardless of who he fights, I just dont want to see him get hurt or for this to be a new trend among old, elite fighters or any older fighters.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Totally agree with your concerns. Marquez seems hellbent on following Manny's trajectory. But like you say, he is a darn sight older than Manny and IMO seemed to be rounded out enough at 135. It's a shame Manny didn't grant Marquez an immediate rematch or a fight after Diaz and have the fight at 135.
Marquez has already proven he is the better fighter than Manny, but he clearly wants to prove a point. I think Marquez is fantastic and hope he can pull out something special against Mayweather. I am very curious to see how he looks at the weight.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Marquez is one hell of a fighter and is one of my favourites for obvious reasons. He has tons of heart, excellent counter puncher but overall is the complete package plus always wants to fight the best.
I'm not happy with his next fight though, he does not belong at welterweight.
I hope he puts on a good showing though.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
It seems so convenient for people to say guys like Marquez and Pacquiao shouldn't be fighting at 147, yet it was expected of Mayweather to move up at least that high. Marquez started his career like 4 pounds lighter than Mayweather when he was 20. Its not Mayweather's fault his skill allowed him to climb weight classes so effortlessly. I don't think MAyweather is that much naturally larger than PAcquiao or Marquez.
Marquez is more fighting a 140 pounder because Mayweather weighs in on fightnight as a large lightweight or an average 140 pounder.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Miles, Pugilistic, i agree with you both 100% and I hope Marquez fights well against Mayweather and id love to see him get the upset. JMM is a great fighter and one of my favorites. I got nothing but praise for the man and I hope he carries the weight better than I think he will. The good news is that Mayweather is not know for putting on 15 lbs the day of the fight like a lot of guys. I would never want to see another Gatti-Gamache type scenario.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
It seems so convenient for people to say guys like Marquez and Pacquiao shouldn't be fighting at 147, yet it was expected of Mayweather to move up at least that high. Marquez started his career like 4 pounds lighter than Mayweather when he was 20. Its not Mayweather's fault his skill allowed him to climb weight classes so effortlessly. I don't think MAyweather is that much naturally larger than PAcquiao or Marquez.
Marquez is more fighting a 140 pounder because Mayweather weighs in on fightnight as a large lightweight or an average 140 pounder.
I think your missing my point. Two years ago, JMM was 33 years old and fighting at 128 pounds, Mayweather was 148 and about 29. Mayweather went up in weight as he grew into higher weight classes. JMM has too, until this fight. This just isnt about Mayweather and Marquez tbh, its about a trend that could start and result in fighters getting hurt by forcing fights at higher weights.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Like Pacquiao moving up to face Oscar De La Hoya, and RIcky Hatton?
Like Adamek against Cruiserweights?
Like Hopkins against Tarver?
Or Calzaghe against Hopkins?
Wright against Hopkins?
People have always fluctuated in weight.
The reason I am not missing the point is that Mayweather's style is condusive with being the bigger guy, the reason he has always done well against larger opponents is because speed is his biggest ally. The guys who will be able to connet most against Mayweather are the fast guys, the guys who will be able to force Mayweather to fight overly defensive are fast guys. Him being the bigger man does him little favor against JMM. The most weight MAyweather ever put on at WW was 3 pounds for the Baldomir fight, he weighed 1 more pound than Pacquiao has of late, and nobody would ever toute the size advantage for Pacquiao against JMM despite him now having more experience at higher weights, JMM seemed to do fine against Manny, and when they fought Manny came into the ring at 145 which is 3 pounds less than he did against Hatton and Oscar De La Hoya, and 1 pound less than Mayweather was against Zab Judah. That's right, Manny weighed 1 pound less in a 130 pound fight then Mayweather did in a welterweight fight. Furthermore, Corrales was 3 pounds heavier than Mayweather weighed in at against Judah when Mayweather fought him at 130, as was Castillo when he faced Mayweather. What I am saying is that Mayweather may have grown, but he was a small lightweight and 140 pounder fighter, and there are lightweights who are bigger as lightweights or as big as Mayweather is as a welterweight. Mayweather fights at welterweight, but he doesn't cut weight to do so, he comes in naturally, and he weighs-in hydrated.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
I have no problem with fighters going up in weight, it usually a good thing. But Thats not what im saying. But JMM fighting 145 pound Pacquiao is not the same as him fighting a welterweight like Shane, Cotto, PBF, even though they all fought at much lower weights earlier in their careers. Timing is everything. The timing for a Welterweight showdown between Floyd and JMM is wrong. I dont think Marquez should ever fight at that weight. So basically what you are saying is that JMM and Floyd are on even terms when it comes to the weight. That seems to be your argument, but I think you took being a Mayweather fan out of the equation, you would realise that is not the case. This isnt about defending Mayweather, its bout the direction boxing is headed.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
When has boxing not been like this? When Armstrong won 3 titles in three different weight classes? When Jack Dempsey fought Willard? When Ezzard Charles became heavyweight champion? What about Joe Walcott moving up? Or Sam Langford? Or Greb? Or Tunney? Or Archie Moore? Or Bob Foster? Or Holyfield? Leonard? Ray Robinson? THomas Hearns? Roy JOnes Jr? Roberto Duran? ARguello? The list goes on and on of guys who have consistently moved up in weight. Marquez hasn't gotten weaker, when have we ever seen him throw more punches than against Juan Diaz? He sure didn't look old or slow against Pacquiao or Casamayor.
Also ONCE again you are ignoring the fact that Mayweather isn't a natural welterweight. We see Paul Williams, Miguel Cotto, MOsley, Margarito, Baldomir, Clottey all weigh up to 160 coming into the ring while Mayweather doesn't crack 150 as a welterweight, Thats the difference, he is 10 pounds lighter than these guys, and far closer to JMM and Manny Pacquiao in weight. So where is your logic? JMM won't try to put on too much weight, but MAyweather won't be 10 pounds heavier than him, they will likely be within 5 pounds of eachother, thats not considered being ina different weightclass. Their power will be similar, their speed will be a lot more comparable than it would be if Mayweather was still fighting at 140 or less because he would have retained a lot more footspeed. Their strength is unimportant because MAyweather isn't a guy who imposes himself.
Besides isn't the fight at 143 at not at the actual 147 limit? Mayweather is never known to put on more than 6 pounds and that was way back at 130, he's only put on half that during his campaign at 140 or higher when comparing his weight before a fight to afterwards.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
JMM weighed 140 on fight night of the Juan Diaz fight... I'm guessing JMM will weigh-in at 138 then weigh 140 on fight night with Floyd... Floyd possibly weigh-in at the limit at 144/145 (?) then weigh 148 to 150 on fight night... JMM giving away 8 to 10 lbs to Floyd on fight night will be very dangerous when it's coupled with the many other physical advantages Floyd enjoyed over JMM...
Size - 8 to 10 lbs. advantage to PBF
Speed - PBF is much faster
Reach - 5" advantage to PBF
Age - JMM is older by 4 years
Height - 1" advantage to PBF
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Mayweather hasn't put on 6 pounds for a fight since he was at 130, I can't see him doing it, he makes 143 too easily, and he trains all the way up to the fight. He's faster physically, but Mayweather has been fighting slower guys, and obviously Marquez can deal with speed. When Mayweather fought at lightweight he also weighed 140 coming into the ring, Marquez could easily put on more muscle and still be fine speedwise, I can't see him weighing only 140, and even if he did, it only helps him to be lighter against Mayweather.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
I too think about this constantly, but no of us will know until fight night.
As a fan, I would love nothing more than for JMM to pull the upset.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
It seems so convenient for people to say guys like Marquez and Pacquiao shouldn't be fighting at 147, yet it was expected of Mayweather to move up at least that high. Marquez started his career like 4 pounds lighter than Mayweather when he was 20. Its not Mayweather's fault his skill allowed him to climb weight classes so effortlessly. I don't think MAyweather is that much naturally larger than PAcquiao or Marquez.
Marquez is more fighting a 140 pounder because Mayweather weighs in on fightnight as a large lightweight or an average 140 pounder.
Why do some people mention that Mayweather "used" to be a super featherweight ? That makes no difference to NOW.
All fighters go up in weight as they age.
Marquez can still make 130 and he is 36 years old, Mayweather could no way make 135 let alone 130, he could probably make 140 but refuses to even go that low so i guess that makes him a 147lber.
At this stage Mayweather is a welterweight and Marquez is a natural super featherweight, even watch Marquez fight against Juan Diaz and i think it's clear that Marquez is small even at lightweight.
This fight is not a fair fight no matter which way you put it.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
It seems so convenient for people to say guys like Marquez and Pacquiao shouldn't be fighting at 147, yet it was expected of Mayweather to move up at least that high. Marquez started his career like 4 pounds lighter than Mayweather when he was 20. Its not Mayweather's fault his skill allowed him to climb weight classes so effortlessly. I don't think MAyweather is that much naturally larger than PAcquiao or Marquez.
Marquez is more fighting a 140 pounder because Mayweather weighs in on fightnight as a large lightweight or an average 140 pounder.
Why do some people mention that Mayweather "used" to be a super featherweight ? That makes no difference to NOW.
All fighters go up in weight as they age.
Marquez can still make 130 and he is 36 years old, Mayweather could no way make 135 let alone 130, he could probably make 140 but refuses to even go that low so i guess that makes him a 147lber.
At this stage Mayweather is a welterweight and Marquez is a natural super featherweight, even watch Marquez fight against Juan Diaz and i think it's clear that Marquez is small even at lightweight.
This fight is not a fair fight no matter which way you put it.
I totally agree that PBF-JMM is not a fair fight... PBF enjoyed all the physical advantages over JMM... PBF is the heavy 4 to 1 favorite in the betting... I even consider this fight as a tune-up fight...
With that said, this fight could potentially end up as a boring tactical chess match between 2 masters of the waiting game (counterpunchers)...
.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
It seems so convenient for people to say guys like Marquez and Pacquiao shouldn't be fighting at 147, yet it was expected of Mayweather to move up at least that high. Marquez started his career like 4 pounds lighter than Mayweather when he was 20. Its not Mayweather's fault his skill allowed him to climb weight classes so effortlessly. I don't think MAyweather is that much naturally larger than PAcquiao or Marquez.
Marquez is more fighting a 140 pounder because Mayweather weighs in on fightnight as a large lightweight or an average 140 pounder.
Why do some people mention that Mayweather "used" to be a super featherweight ? That makes no difference to NOW.
All fighters go up in weight as they age.
Marquez can still make 130 and he is 36 years old, Mayweather could no way make 135 let alone 130, he could probably make 140 but refuses to even go that low so i guess that makes him a 147lber.
At this stage Mayweather is a welterweight and Marquez is a natural super featherweight, even watch Marquez fight against Juan Diaz and i think it's clear that Marquez is small even at lightweight.
This fight is not a fair fight no matter which way you put it.
I totally agree that PBF-JMM is not a fair fight... PBF enjoyed all the physical advantages over JMM... PBF is the heavy 4 to 1 favorite in the betting... I even consider this fight as a tune-up fight...
With that said, this fight could potentially end up as a boring tactical chess match between 2 masters of the waiting game (counterpunchers)...
.
I wouldn't call it a tune up, Marquez is not a tune up for any fighter.
Regarding the excitement of the fight, You could be right but i doubt it.
I expect Mayweather to be more aggressive than normal and Marquez has been alot more aggressive in his more recent fights.
The fight for me goes two ways.
1st - Marquez fights on the back foot knowing his best chance to win is make Mayweather come forward and try counter him. I think Mayweather would be more comfortable coming forward because he knows he's bigger.
2nd - Marquez comes forward and takes the fight to Mayweather, giving Mayweather loads of countering oppurtunities. If Marquez fights this way, he eventually gets stopped.
Either way though i see Marquez losing. :(
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Why do some people mention that Mayweather "used" to be a super featherweight ? That makes no difference to NOW.
All fighters go up in weight as they age.
Marquez can still make 130 and he is 36 years old, Mayweather could no way make 135 let alone 130, he could probably make 140 but refuses to even go that low so i guess that makes him a 147lber.
At this stage Mayweather is a welterweight and Marquez is a natural super featherweight, even watch Marquez fight against Juan Diaz and i think it's clear that Marquez is small even at lightweight.
This fight is not a fair fight no matter which way you put it.
I totally agree that PBF-JMM is not a fair fight... PBF enjoyed all the physical advantages over JMM... PBF is the heavy 4 to 1 favorite in the betting... I even consider this fight as a tune-up fight...
With that said, this fight could potentially end up as a boring tactical chess match between 2 masters of the waiting game (counterpunchers)...
.
I wouldn't call it a tune up, Marquez is not a tune up for any fighter.
Regarding the excitement of the fight, You could be right but i doubt it.
I expect Mayweather to be more aggressive than normal and Marquez has been alot more aggressive in his more recent fights.
The fight for me goes two ways.
1st - Marquez fights on the back foot knowing his best chance to win is make Mayweather come forward and try counter him. I think Mayweather would be more comfortable coming forward because he knows he's bigger.
2nd - Marquez comes forward and takes the fight to Mayweather, giving Mayweather loads of countering oppurtunities. If Marquez fights this way, he eventually gets stopped.
Either way though
i see Marquez losing. :(
I also have JMM losing this one by UD through 12 boring, agonizing rounds...
This is how I see the fight... First 2 rounds is a super feeling out rounds where the 2 waiting for each other on who will throw first... Next rounds 'til the 12th will have PBF potshoting JMM from range with his 5" reach advantage and much superior speed... JMM will try to press the action at some spots since his only chance of winning is by KO/TKO but PBF is just so much faster, the better counterpuncher and a defensive virtouso that the much smaller JMM's offense can't even make a dent... PBF just happy to potshot JMM to a 12 boring rounds UD victory...
.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
I totally agree that PBF-JMM is not a fair fight... PBF enjoyed all the physical advantages over JMM... PBF is the heavy 4 to 1 favorite in the betting... I even consider this fight as a tune-up fight...
With that said, this fight could potentially end up as a boring tactical chess match between 2 masters of the waiting game (counterpunchers)...
.
I wouldn't call it a tune up, Marquez is not a tune up for any fighter.
Regarding the excitement of the fight, You could be right but i doubt it.
I expect Mayweather to be more aggressive than normal and Marquez has been alot more aggressive in his more recent fights.
The fight for me goes two ways.
1st - Marquez fights on the back foot knowing his best chance to win is make Mayweather come forward and try counter him. I think Mayweather would be more comfortable coming forward because he knows he's bigger.
2nd - Marquez comes forward and takes the fight to Mayweather, giving Mayweather loads of countering oppurtunities. If Marquez fights this way, he eventually gets stopped.
Either way though
i see Marquez losing. :(
I also have JMM losing this one by UD through 12 boring, agonizing rounds...
This is how I see the fight... First 2 rounds is a super feeling out rounds where the 2 waiting for each other on who will throw first... Next rounds 'til the 12th will have PBF potshoting JMM from range with his 5" reach advantage and much superior speed... JMM will try to press the action at some spots since his only chance of winning is by KO/TKO but PBF is just so much faster, the better counterpuncher and a defensive virtouso that the much smaller JMM's offense can't even make a dent... PBF just happy to potshot JMM to a 12 boring rounds UD victory...
.
I can agree there, Mayweather does like to coast in some fights.
I honestly do believe though that Mayweather wants to make a statement.
I think he is going for the KO.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
I wouldn't call it a tune up, Marquez is not a tune up for any fighter.
Regarding the excitement of the fight, You could be right but i doubt it.
I expect Mayweather to be more aggressive than normal and Marquez has been alot more aggressive in his more recent fights.
The fight for me goes two ways.
1st - Marquez fights on the back foot knowing his best chance to win is make Mayweather come forward and try counter him. I think Mayweather would be more comfortable coming forward because he knows he's bigger.
2nd - Marquez comes forward and takes the fight to Mayweather, giving Mayweather loads of countering oppurtunities. If Marquez fights this way, he eventually gets stopped.
Either way though i see Marquez losing. :(
I also have JMM losing this one by UD through 12 boring, agonizing rounds...
This is how I see the fight... First 2 rounds is a super feeling out rounds where the 2 waiting for each other on who will throw first... Next rounds 'til the 12th will have PBF potshoting JMM from range with his 5" reach advantage and much superior speed... JMM will try to press the action at some spots since his only chance of winning is by KO/TKO but PBF is just so much faster, the better counterpuncher and a defensive virtouso that the much smaller JMM's offense can't even make a dent... PBF just happy to potshot JMM to a 12 boring rounds UD victory...
.
I can agree there, Mayweather does like to coast in some fights.
I honestly do believe though that Mayweather wants to make a statement.
I think he is going for the KO.
Yeah I can see PBF trying to KO JMM in the late rounds after potshoting JMM successfully for several rounds already... PBF might even score a knockdown but after seeing JMM standing up and throwing again, PBF goes back potshoting and coast to a 12 round boring UD win...
.
Re: Jumping up 10+ lbs In Weight At 35+ Years Old
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pugilistic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
It seems so convenient for people to say guys like Marquez and Pacquiao shouldn't be fighting at 147, yet it was expected of Mayweather to move up at least that high. Marquez started his career like 4 pounds lighter than Mayweather when he was 20. Its not Mayweather's fault his skill allowed him to climb weight classes so effortlessly. I don't think MAyweather is that much naturally larger than PAcquiao or Marquez.
Marquez is more fighting a 140 pounder because Mayweather weighs in on fightnight as a large lightweight or an average 140 pounder.
Why do some people mention that Mayweather "used" to be a super featherweight ? That makes no difference to NOW.
All fighters go up in weight as they age.
Marquez can still make 130 and he is 36 years old, Mayweather could no way make 135 let alone 130, he could probably make 140 but refuses to even go that low so i guess that makes him a 147lber.
At this stage Mayweather is a welterweight and Marquez is a natural super featherweight, even watch Marquez fight against Juan Diaz and i think it's clear that Marquez is small even at lightweight.
This fight is not a fair fight no matter which way you put it.
its not like that at all we don't know what weightclass Mayweather could make, I bet he could still make 135 if he watned to, but why should he? Marquez called him out, not vice virsa. Marquez wants to move up to catch Pacquiao, Mayweather is already there. I am saying naturally they have a similar build, and any muscle Mayweather has accumulated has affected him the same way it will MArquez who will now have to put on some muscle. The likely reason Mayweather couldn't make lower weights if thats the case is because he proactively pursued bigger guys. Now Marquez is doing that, and he will adapt his body accordingly.
