-
Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Boxing: Froch-Pavlik in works for January | Setanta
Arum claims they're in talks with HBO about Sturm in October, followed by Froch fighting Pavlik as early as January 2010, pretty much leaving Abraham in the dark. If Pavlik does this, then my respect is restored for him, even if he just takes the Sturm fight.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Guess that if that comes into play, Froch won't risk his big payday by fighting Bute or Hopkins
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Any fighter that can come anywhere close to making the weight wants a piece of this guy. He sure didn't worry anyone in his last outing.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
i'd laugh my ass off if Mora pulled another upset due to his opponent looking WAY past him
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i'd laugh my ass off if Mora pulled another upset due to his opponent looking WAY past him
Sturm would be instead of Mora dude, if they can make the Sturm fight, Mora will be out of the picture.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i'd laugh my ass off if Mora pulled another upset due to his opponent looking WAY past him
Sturm would be instead of Mora dude, if they can make the Sturm fight, Mora will be out of the picture.
isn't the Mora fight already signed and scheduled though?
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
i'd laugh my ass off if Mora pulled another upset due to his opponent looking WAY past him
Sturm would be instead of Mora dude, if they can make the Sturm fight, Mora will be out of the picture.
isn't the Mora fight already signed and scheduled though?
It looks like they pretty much screwed Mora out of the fight in order to face Sturm.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Sturm would be instead of Mora dude, if they can make the Sturm fight, Mora will be out of the picture.
isn't the Mora fight already signed and scheduled though?
It looks like they pretty much screwed Mora out of the fight in order to face Sturm.
ok, i mean i really wouldn't give Mora that much of a chance in winning but hell, waving a HUGE payday in the guys face then getting the boot for a Sturm fight (even though its a more significant fight), seems a bit harsh
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
isn't the Mora fight already signed and scheduled though?
It looks like they pretty much screwed Mora out of the fight in order to face Sturm.
ok, i mean i really wouldn't give Mora that much of a chance in winning but hell, waving a HUGE payday in the guys face then getting the boot for a Sturm fight (even though its a more significant fight), seems a bit harsh
He's probably the fallback option. To be fair, he was lucky to receive the shot in the first place. The Sturm fight is much better for boxing though. I'm really tired of the Middleweight champions taking less meaningful fights when they should be fighting each other.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Guess that if that comes into play, Froch won't risk his big payday by fighting Bute or Hopkins
Jaz, regardless I think Froch-Bute happens at the end of the year. Froch has made a point of saying he only wants big fights, so I doubt he takes a voluntary defence instead. Hennessy already offered him that option and he turned it down flat.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
isn't the Mora fight already signed and scheduled though?
It looks like they pretty much screwed Mora out of the fight in order to face Sturm.
ok, i mean i really wouldn't give Mora that much of a chance in winning but hell, waving a HUGE payday in the guys face then getting the boot for a Sturm fight (even though its a more significant fight), seems a bit harsh
I know. I'm one of the very few Mora fans and while I didn't think he had much of a shot versus Pavlik, I wanted to see him prove me wrong (like he did against Forrest) and collect a nice paycheck in the process. The contracts were all signed and then Pavlik pulls out, ostensibly because he cut his finger and got an infection. Although after Arum canceled the Mora fight, Pavlik came out and said he would've been fine to go on with it.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
It looks like they pretty much screwed Mora out of the fight in order to face Sturm.
ok, i mean i really wouldn't give Mora that much of a chance in winning but hell, waving a HUGE payday in the guys face then getting the boot for a Sturm fight (even though its a more significant fight), seems a bit harsh
He's probably the fallback option. To be fair, he was lucky to receive the shot in the first place. The Sturm fight is much better for boxing though. I'm really tired of the Middleweight champions taking less meaningful fights when they should be fighting each other.
I certainly don't disagree with any of that, though it's starting to look like Pavlik's people might be trying to keep him away from Abraham (the only MW fight I really want to see), but Pavlik and Mora had signed the contracts and at that point the fight should happen unless there is a legitimate reason to cancel it.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
It looks like they pretty much screwed Mora out of the fight in order to face Sturm.
ok, i mean i really wouldn't give Mora that much of a chance in winning but hell, waving a HUGE payday in the guys face then getting the boot for a Sturm fight (even though its a more significant fight), seems a bit harsh
He's probably the fallback option. To be fair, he was lucky to receive the shot in the first place. The Sturm fight is much better for boxing though. I'm really tired of the Middleweight champions taking less meaningful fights when they should be fighting each other.
oh i'm completely with you on the Sturm fight having a lot more significance, but what bothers me is that if you sign the contract to fight the guy, already have the fight scheduled and the fight is given the green light, you should honor the deal, even if Mora was lucky to get the shot, if they had a deal made already they should honor it, then fight Sturm next, don't see why he cant fight Mora during the summer and take on Sturm come October or November
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Guess that if that comes into play, Froch won't risk his big payday by fighting Bute or Hopkins
Jaz, regardless I think Froch-Bute happens at the end of the year. Froch has made a point of saying he only wants big fights, so I doubt he takes a voluntary defence instead. Hennessy already offered him that option and he turned it down flat.
The thing is though, he's got till next May before a mandatory title defence comes up even as a possibility as Taylor was his mandatory, so he might just wait on a Pavlik fight, although a fight with Bute is what I want to see.
Ideally, Froch-Bute winner fights Andrade (who's the IBF mandatory anyway) as Kessler won't be back by then.
Sturm-Pavlik winner fights Abraham.
Then stick the guys on top after all of it in against each other at 168.
Won't happen though :eek:
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
ok, i mean i really wouldn't give Mora that much of a chance in winning but hell, waving a HUGE payday in the guys face then getting the boot for a Sturm fight (even though its a more significant fight), seems a bit harsh
He's probably the fallback option. To be fair, he was lucky to receive the shot in the first place. The Sturm fight is much better for boxing though. I'm really tired of the Middleweight champions taking less meaningful fights when they should be fighting each other.
oh i'm completely with you on the Sturm fight having a lot more significance,
but what bothers me is that if you sign the contract to fight the guy, already have the fight scheduled and the fight is given the green light, you should honor the deal, even if Mora was lucky to get the shot, if they had a deal made already they should honor it, then fight Sturm next, don't see why he cant fight Mora during the summer and take on Sturm come October or November
It reminds me alot of the situation when Cintron signed to fight Williams in a unification, got injured and then talked about fighting every other fighter but Williams. As for the Summer date, I imagine it'll come down to what dates they can get with HBO. You're 100% correct there is time to do it, but I'm betting they've seen the Mora fight as a high risk-low reward fight. Remember, Pavlik's people weren't exactly thrilled with the Mora fight, and Pavlik's Dad released a statement saying they were pissed at Top Rank for cancelling the bout, yet a few days later Kelly signed a new multi-fight deal with Arum. I'm betting that a condition to sign was that they got a better fight than Mora for him.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Guess that if that comes into play, Froch won't risk his big payday by fighting Bute or Hopkins
Jaz, regardless I think Froch-Bute happens at the end of the year. Froch has made a point of saying he only wants big fights, so I doubt he takes a voluntary defence instead. Hennessy already offered him that option and he turned it down flat.
The thing is though, he's got till next May before a mandatory title defence comes up even as a possibility as Taylor was his mandatory, so he might just wait on a Pavlik fight, although a fight with Bute is what I want to see.
Ideally, Froch-Bute winner fights Andrade (who's the IBF mandatory anyway) as Kessler won't be back by then.
Sturm-Pavlik winner fights Abraham.
Then stick the guys on top after all of it in against each other at 168.
Won't happen though :eek:
Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
career defining fight for my man, I know he can take Pavlik. It will be so good if this happens, Carl finally gets notion for once from a top promoter
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
career defining fight for my man, I know he can take Pavlik. It will be so good if this happens, Carl finally gets notion for once from a top promoter
thing is if Pavlik drops Froch the way Taylor did, he finishes him, that being said, it's a toss up fight
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
career defining fight for my man, I know he can take Pavlik. It will be so good if this happens, Carl finally gets notion for once from a top promoter
thing is if Pavlik drops Froch the way Taylor did, he finishes him, that being said, it's a toss up fight
Pavlik wont be as fasting starting as Taylor was, if Taylor fights in the first 5 rounds throughout the whole 12 he would beat ANY fighter believe me on that one. I think your correct its a pick em fight, but Pavlik wouldnt have fough anybody like Froch before, whos shown he can really dig deep when he needs too. I think its a battle of power and who has the better chin, both like to apply pressure and come forward thats why I think this fight really could have fight of the year written all over it.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
career defining fight for my man, I know he can take Pavlik. It will be so good if this happens, Carl finally gets notion for once from a top promoter
thing is if Pavlik drops Froch the way Taylor did, he finishes him, that being said, it's a toss up fight
Pavlik wont be as fasting starting as Taylor was, if Taylor fights in the first 5 rounds throughout the whole 12 he would beat ANY fighter believe me on that one. I think your correct its a pick em fight, but
Pavlik wouldnt have fough anybody like Froch before, whos shown he can really dig deep when he needs too. I think its a battle of power and who has the better chin, both like to apply pressure and come forward thats why I think this fight really could have fight of the year written all over it.
Bernard Hopkins? Just because he's a technical fighter doesn't mean he doesn't show that same heart to pull himself through in tough fights or dominate someone who's expected to KO him like he did with both Tarver & Pavlik. Ironically, I do think Pavlik is the best option for Froch. Bute will outbox him & possibly KO him, he hits harder than Taylor & even though in my personal opinion the fight should have been stopped, he showed great heart against Andrade when out on his feet. Kessler is too good as well if he's near the same fighter on his return & outboxes him, Andrade would outmacho him & take him out in the later rounds.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
thing is if Pavlik drops Froch the way Taylor did, he finishes him, that being said, it's a toss up fight
Pavlik wont be as fasting starting as Taylor was, if Taylor fights in the first 5 rounds throughout the whole 12 he would beat ANY fighter believe me on that one. I think your correct its a pick em fight, but
Pavlik wouldnt have fough anybody like Froch before, whos shown he can really dig deep when he needs too. I think its a battle of power and who has the better chin, both like to apply pressure and come forward thats why I think this fight really could have fight of the year written all over it.
Bernard Hopkins? Just because he's a technical fighter doesn't mean he doesn't show that same heart to pull himself through in tough fights or dominate someone who's expected to KO him like he did with both Tarver & Pavlik. Ironically, I do think Pavlik is the best option for Froch. Bute will outbox him & possibly KO him, he hits harder than Taylor & even though in my personal opinion the fight should have been stopped, he showed great heart against Andrade when out on his feet. Kessler is too good as well if he's near the same fighter on his return & outboxes him, Andrade would outmacho him & take him out in the later rounds.
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Pavlik wont be as fasting starting as Taylor was, if Taylor fights in the first 5 rounds throughout the whole 12 he would beat ANY fighter believe me on that one. I think your correct its a pick em fight, but Pavlik wouldnt have fough anybody like Froch before, whos shown he can really dig deep when he needs too. I think its a battle of power and who has the better chin, both like to apply pressure and come forward thats why I think this fight really could have fight of the year written all over it.
Bernard Hopkins? Just because he's a technical fighter doesn't mean he doesn't show that same heart to pull himself through in tough fights or dominate someone who's expected to KO him like he did with both Tarver & Pavlik. Ironically, I do think Pavlik is the best option for Froch. Bute will outbox him & possibly KO him, he hits harder than Taylor & even though in my personal opinion the fight should have been stopped, he showed great heart against Andrade when out on his feet. Kessler is too good as well if he's near the same fighter on his return & outboxes him, Andrade would outmacho him & take him out in the later rounds.
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Bernard Hopkins? Just because he's a technical fighter doesn't mean he doesn't show that same heart to pull himself through in tough fights or dominate someone who's expected to KO him like he did with both Tarver & Pavlik. Ironically, I do think Pavlik is the best option for Froch. Bute will outbox him & possibly KO him, he hits harder than Taylor & even though in my personal opinion the fight should have been stopped, he showed great heart against Andrade when out on his feet. Kessler is too good as well if he's near the same fighter on his return & outboxes him, Andrade would outmacho him & take him out in the later rounds.
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
Why do you rate Kessler at number one though ? He hasnt fought anybody since JC, which he lost to anyway and his promotion team are a joke. Carl has two bigger wins in Pascal and JT and hes still undefeated...Also if Pascal comes light heavyweight champion this weekend Carl has beaten him already which shows that Pascal is still a challenger at any weight. I think Kessler CAN be the best in the weight class, but he doesnt show me that through lack of top rated fights and inactivity. I rank Bute higher than Kessler IMO.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
Why do you rate Kessler at number one though ? He hasnt fought anybody since JC, which he lost to anyway and his promotion team are a joke. Carl has two bigger wins in Pascal and JT and hes still undefeated...Also if Pascal comes light heavyweight champion this weekend Carl has beaten him already which shows that Pascal is still a challenger at any weight. I think Kessler CAN be the best in the weight class, but he doesnt show me that through lack of top rated fights and inactivity. I rank Bute higher than Kessler IMO.
Agree 100% with Tam here. Kessler has done shit all to prove he's higher than #3 at 168 for me. Bute is #1 right now, Froch is a close 2nd and Kessler is 3rd due to inactivity and the absolute joke fights he's put on his resume.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
I was using Hopkins as an example with heart as big as Froch's who Pavlik had fought. If Pavlik could twice cope with Taylor who is an immeasurably better boxer, I think he could deal with Froch trying to box. Froch seems to think he is Tommy Hearns, where in reality his handspeed is average & his footwork is abysmal. Fine, Kessler's inactivity is an issue, but if Kessler looks even half the fighter he was before Calzaghe, then I think he dispatches Froch. Bute is a fast, powerful boxer & would do what Taylor did, but would actually finish Froch. I think Andrade was a tougher fight for him because he took everything Bute had & then had him finished at the end. Froch's chin is simply not as good as Andrade's, who may have the best chin in modern boxing. This is clear from the fact that Taylor dropped Froch & had him on queer street, and if he could finish a fight it would be all over. Also pre-fight Froch was taking the piss out of Taylor's power, saying he couldn't drop light-middleweights so he would be no problem for him & if he had such a great chin this would be true. In the meantime Andrade has only been dropped by an absolute bomb from Yusaf Mack, which he got right back up from. Froch is a better boxer, but his chin is just not on the level & his boxing is nowhere near the same level as Bute or Kessler. Like I said, Pavlik is the best option for him, as they are similarly one dimensional.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
I was using Hopkins as an example with heart as big as Froch's who Pavlik had fought. If Pavlik could twice cope with Taylor who is an immeasurably better boxer, I think he could deal with Froch trying to box. Froch seems to think he is Tommy Hearns, where in reality his handspeed is average & his footwork is abysmal. Fine, Kessler's inactivity is an issue, but if Kessler looks even half the fighter he was before Calzaghe, then I think he dispatches Froch. Bute is a fast, powerful boxer & would do what Taylor did, but would actually finish Froch. I think Andrade was a tougher fight for him because he took everything Bute had & then had him finished at the end. Froch's chin is simply not as good as Andrade's, who may have the best chin in modern boxing. This is clear from the fact that Taylor dropped Froch & had him on queer street, and if he could finish a fight it would be all over. Also pre-fight Froch was taking the piss out of Taylor's power, saying he couldn't drop light-middleweights so he would be no problem for him & if he had such a great chin this would be true. In the meantime Andrade has only been dropped by an absolute bomb from Yusaf Mack, which he got right back up from. Froch is a better boxer, but his chin is just not on the level & his boxing is nowhere near the same level as Bute or Kessler. Like I said, Pavlik is the best option for him, as they are similarly one dimensional.
First of all you saying Carl Froch has awful footwork is the biggest load of bull ever, Carls footwork is what makes him such an awkward fighter to handle in the ring. He knows his range and from that he uses his footwork to get out of danger and implement aggresive forward pressure fighting, what he does best. So you saying he hasnt got good footwork isnt right IMO, I think its one of his most useful assets in a fight. As for the Taylor fight, how many world champions in their first defence travel to the USA against arguably one of their best prospects to date in their backyard? Carl was an underdog in the fight and the US audience didnt give him a chance against JT, he weatherd the storm and came back when he was behind on the judges scorecards to stop JT which was a great achievement. I feel that Carl hasnt been given enough respect in that department, because after the 6th round in the fight I feel he really did start to push Taylor back and because of that the knockout by the 12th was inevitable. It's your opionion on Bute, but we would have to see, I think the fight needs to happen to clarify who is the best at 168, and for Kessler if he gets rid of his shit promotion team I hope to god we see him involved in the 168 mix. As for Andrade it would be an exciting fight, but with the experience Carl has gained in the last year I think he would be able to handle him, it would be good to watch, but carl wouldnt lose to Andrade mark my words on that
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
I was using Hopkins as an example with heart as big as Froch's who Pavlik had fought. If Pavlik could twice cope with Taylor who is an immeasurably better boxer, I think he could deal with Froch trying to box. Froch seems to think he is Tommy Hearns, where in reality his handspeed is average & his footwork is abysmal. Fine, Kessler's inactivity is an issue, but if Kessler looks even half the fighter he was before Calzaghe, then I think he dispatches Froch. Bute is a fast, powerful boxer & would do what Taylor did, but would actually finish Froch. I think Andrade was a tougher fight for him because he took everything Bute had & then had him finished at the end. Froch's chin is simply not as good as Andrade's, who may have the best chin in modern boxing. This is clear from the fact that Taylor dropped Froch & had him on queer street, and if he could finish a fight it would be all over. Also pre-fight Froch was taking the piss out of Taylor's power, saying he couldn't drop light-middleweights so he would be no problem for him & if he had such a great chin this would be true. In the meantime Andrade has only been dropped by an absolute bomb from Yusaf Mack, which he got right back up from. Froch is a better boxer, but his chin is just not on the level & his boxing is nowhere near the same level as Bute or Kessler. Like I said, Pavlik is the best option for him, as they are similarly one dimensional.
First of all you saying Carl Froch has awful footwork is the biggest load of bull ever, Carls footwork is what makes him such an awkward fighter to handle in the ring. He knows his range and from that he uses his footwork to get out of danger and implement aggresive forward pressure fighting, what he does best. So you saying he hasnt got good footwork isnt right IMO, I think its one of his most useful assets in a fight. As for the Taylor fight, how many world champions in their first defence travel to the USA against arguably one of their best prospects to date in their backyard? Carl was an underdog in the fight and the US audience didnt give him a chance against JT, he weatherd the storm and came back when he was behind on the judges scorecards to stop JT which was a great achievement. I feel that Carl hasnt been given enough respect in that department, because after the 6th round in the fight I feel he really did start to push Taylor back and because of that the knockout by the 12th was inevitable. It's your opionion on Bute, but we would have to see, I think the fight needs to happen to clarify who is the best at 168, and for Kessler if he gets rid of his shit promotion team I hope to god we see him involved in the 168 mix. As for Andrade it would be an exciting fight, but with the experience Carl has gained in the last year I think he would be able to handle him, it would be good to watch, but carl wouldnt lose to Andrade mark my words on that
Fair points although I disagree & think Andrade would KO him, happy enough to have a sig or avatar bet if they fight. I did say before they fought that I thought Froch would beat Taylor, only to actually be impressed by Taylor & disappointed by Froch, who I didn't feel did anything till the 8th, but fair play to him he did what he needed to win. I think his footwork looks so awkward & at times it looks like he's gonna stumble over his own feet. Eventually he will fight a guy who takes advantage of that & his low hands & makes him pay.
One thing why do Froch fans feel the constant need to mention that 'he went to the US in his first defence against a top fighter in his own backyard' etc etc if no one brings up anything to do with that? Yes I give him respect for that, but it's no reason for me to proclaim him the saviour of boxing. Just because European fighters don't do it, doesn't mean those from Australia, South America & Africa are doing the same.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I was using Hopkins as an example with heart as big as Froch's who Pavlik had fought. If Pavlik could twice cope with Taylor who is an immeasurably better boxer, I think he could deal with Froch trying to box. Froch seems to think he is Tommy Hearns, where in reality his handspeed is average & his footwork is abysmal. Fine, Kessler's inactivity is an issue, but if Kessler looks even half the fighter he was before Calzaghe, then I think he dispatches Froch. Bute is a fast, powerful boxer & would do what Taylor did, but would actually finish Froch. I think Andrade was a tougher fight for him because he took everything Bute had & then had him finished at the end. Froch's chin is simply not as good as Andrade's, who may have the best chin in modern boxing. This is clear from the fact that Taylor dropped Froch & had him on queer street, and if he could finish a fight it would be all over. Also pre-fight Froch was taking the piss out of Taylor's power, saying he couldn't drop light-middleweights so he would be no problem for him & if he had such a great chin this would be true. In the meantime Andrade has only been dropped by an absolute bomb from Yusaf Mack, which he got right back up from. Froch is a better boxer, but his chin is just not on the level & his boxing is nowhere near the same level as Bute or Kessler. Like I said, Pavlik is the best option for him, as they are similarly one dimensional.
First of all you saying Carl Froch has awful footwork is the biggest load of bull ever, Carls footwork is what makes him such an awkward fighter to handle in the ring. He knows his range and from that he uses his footwork to get out of danger and implement aggresive forward pressure fighting, what he does best. So you saying he hasnt got good footwork isnt right IMO, I think its one of his most useful assets in a fight. As for the Taylor fight, how many world champions in their first defence travel to the USA against arguably one of their best prospects to date in their backyard? Carl was an underdog in the fight and the US audience didnt give him a chance against JT, he weatherd the storm and came back when he was behind on the judges scorecards to stop JT which was a great achievement. I feel that Carl hasnt been given enough respect in that department, because after the 6th round in the fight I feel he really did start to push Taylor back and because of that the knockout by the 12th was inevitable. It's your opionion on Bute, but we would have to see, I think the fight needs to happen to clarify who is the best at 168, and for Kessler if he gets rid of his shit promotion team I hope to god we see him involved in the 168 mix. As for Andrade it would be an exciting fight, but with the experience Carl has gained in the last year I think he would be able to handle him, it would be good to watch, but carl wouldnt lose to Andrade mark my words on that
Fair points although I disagree & think Andrade would KO him, happy enough to have a sig or avatar bet if they fight. I did say before they fought that I thought Froch would beat Taylor, only to actually be impressed by Taylor & disappointed by Froch, who I didn't feel did anything till the 8th, but fair play to him he did what he needed to win. I think his footwork looks so awkward & at times it looks like he's gonna stumble over his own feet. Eventually he will fight a guy who takes advantage of that & his low hands & makes him pay.
One thing why do Froch fans feel the constant need to mention that 'he went to the US in his first defence against a top fighter in his own backyard' etc etc if no one brings up anything to do with that? Yes I give him respect for that, but it's no reason for me to proclaim him the saviour of boxing. Just because European fighters don't do it, doesn't mean those from Australia, South America & Africa are doing the same.
ill take your sig bet mate definatly ! if it ever did happen! I think it is a big achievement, because i highly doubt if Taylor or another USA name had won the belt and lets say for the sake of arguement that Froch was a bigger name that they would go over to the UK to defend there belt. Carl has shown bottle recently, and thats what i respect about him, he could have taken the easy route but he hasnt, and with fight like Pavlik, Bute and Kessler in the air hes not taking any light steps in trying to achieve his goal of being the new man after JC as number one in the weight class, and that hunger he has was shown in the JT fight and thats why im firm that carl can perform even better in fights against big 168 names and prove that he really is the best in the weight class. Very intersting times lay ahead for Carl and the 168 weight class, I always knew this weight class would have a lot of attraction to it.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
First of all you saying Carl Froch has awful footwork is the biggest load of bull ever, Carls footwork is what makes him such an awkward fighter to handle in the ring. He knows his range and from that he uses his footwork to get out of danger and implement aggresive forward pressure fighting, what he does best. So you saying he hasnt got good footwork isnt right IMO, I think its one of his most useful assets in a fight. As for the Taylor fight, how many world champions in their first defence travel to the USA against arguably one of their best prospects to date in their backyard? Carl was an underdog in the fight and the US audience didnt give him a chance against JT, he weatherd the storm and came back when he was behind on the judges scorecards to stop JT which was a great achievement. I feel that Carl hasnt been given enough respect in that department, because after the 6th round in the fight I feel he really did start to push Taylor back and because of that the knockout by the 12th was inevitable. It's your opionion on Bute, but we would have to see, I think the fight needs to happen to clarify who is the best at 168, and for Kessler if he gets rid of his shit promotion team I hope to god we see him involved in the 168 mix. As for Andrade it would be an exciting fight, but with the experience Carl has gained in the last year I think he would be able to handle him, it would be good to watch, but carl wouldnt lose to Andrade mark my words on that
Fair points although I disagree & think Andrade would KO him, happy enough to have a sig or avatar bet if they fight. I did say before they fought that I thought Froch would beat Taylor, only to actually be impressed by Taylor & disappointed by Froch, who I didn't feel did anything till the 8th, but fair play to him he did what he needed to win. I think his footwork looks so awkward & at times it looks like he's gonna stumble over his own feet. Eventually he will fight a guy who takes advantage of that & his low hands & makes him pay.
One thing why do Froch fans feel the constant need to mention that 'he went to the US in his first defence against a top fighter in his own backyard' etc etc if no one brings up anything to do with that? Yes I give him respect for that, but it's no reason for me to proclaim him the saviour of boxing. Just because European fighters don't do it, doesn't mean those from Australia, South America & Africa are doing the same.
ill take your sig bet mate definatly ! if it ever did happen! I think it is a big achievement, because i highly doubt if Taylor or another USA name had won the belt and lets say for the sake of arguement that Froch was a bigger name that they would go over to the UK to defend there belt. Carl has shown bottle recently, and thats what i respect about him, he could have taken the easy route but he hasnt, and with fight like Pavlik, Bute and Kessler in the air hes not taking any light steps in trying to achieve his goal of being the new man after JC as number one in the weight class, and that hunger he has was shown in the JT fight and thats why im firm that carl can perform even better in fights against big 168 names and prove that he really is the best in the weight class. Very intersting times lay ahead for Carl and the 168 weight class, I always knew this weight class would have a lot of attraction to it.
I understand you respect that, but I never questioned his hunger or attitude. Just his ability which I don't feel is on the same level as Kessler or Bute, who I think is something really special, and their fight would tell me a lot about how a fight between Froch & Calzaghe might have gone, as Bute is technically similar although for me he is a bit better to watch as he hits rather than slaps.
Also I believe US fighters would come to the UK to defend their belt if there was more money in it. It's why Lacy came to Wales for the unification, why Tszyu came to Manchester to fight Hatton, & why Kotelnik is coming to London to face Khan. If ticket sales money came even close to the money that casinos put up for title fights, than more US fighters would be coming over here. However, as it is even a 'small' casino like Foxwoods in Connecticut will offer up more money for a world title fight than could be generated in any boxing venue in Britain.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
B hop would beat Froch hands down and I dont deny that fact, Froch-Pavlik is a totally different fight to the Hopkins one because anything could happen in any round. Pavlik or Froch could pull a knockout, or Carl Froch in the later rounds can change his game plan and try and box like he did against Pascal, I think Pavlik would struggle with that change of pace. Kessler is too overrated hes not done anything since a losing fight to JC, whats he done since ? Carls fought and beaten a better fighter in JT and Kessler hasnt done anything. Bute-Froch would be a tough fight for Carl I dont deny that fact, but Carl would be the hardest fight to date for Bute and I think Carl could stop him late in an exciting fight. As for Andrade, are you serious? Andrade wouldnt take Carl in the later rounds, it would be an exciting fight of who has the better chins, and I think Carl is technically better than Andrade and he would win a UD.
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
Why do you rate Kessler at number one though ? He hasnt fought anybody since JC, which he lost to anyway and his promotion team are a joke. Carl has two bigger wins in Pascal and JT and hes still undefeated...Also if Pascal comes light heavyweight champion this weekend Carl has beaten him already which shows that Pascal is still a challenger at any weight. I think Kessler CAN be the best in the weight class, but he doesnt show me that through lack of top rated fights and inactivity. I rank Bute higher than Kessler IMO.
wouldn't really use the JT fight to try and put Froch above Kessler, cause even in the Calzaghe fight Kessler wasn't dominated, lets be honest, aside from the last 4 rounds Froch was getting owned by Taylor, i honestly still feel Taylor deserves a rematch, and it was a good fight that i wouldn't mind seeing again, i have Kessler as #1 by default, he was #2 even after the loss to Calzaghe, and well Bute IMO is at #2, Andrade and Froch basically either one at #3
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
IMO Pavlik has more power than Froch, and i'd say their chin's are about even, both were dropped identically against Taylor, only difference was once Pavlik hurt Taylor and dropped him, he didn't get up, i don't think Froch is #1 at 168 by any means, that goes to Kessler
Why do you rate Kessler at number one though ? He hasnt fought anybody since JC, which he lost to anyway and his promotion team are a joke. Carl has two bigger wins in Pascal and JT and hes still undefeated...Also if Pascal comes light heavyweight champion this weekend Carl has beaten him already which shows that Pascal is still a challenger at any weight. I think Kessler CAN be the best in the weight class, but he doesnt show me that through lack of top rated fights and inactivity. I rank Bute higher than Kessler IMO.
wouldn't really use the JT fight to try and put Froch above Kessler, cause even in the Calzaghe fight Kessler wasn't dominated, lets be honest, aside from the last 4 rounds Froch was getting owned by Taylor, i honestly still feel Taylor deserves a rematch, and it was a good fight that i wouldn't mind seeing again, i have Kessler as #1 by default, he was #2 even after the loss to Calzaghe, and well Bute IMO is at #2, Andrade and Froch basically either one at #3
Fair enough Kessler did take the number one spot when JC left, but ever since then his wins in comparison to Froch and Bute arent big enough and hes been inactive, I dont see why he has to hold the number one spot because IMO hes not done enough, my point is that he CAN be number one again but not at this momment until he fights somebody of notice and trys to go after Froch or Bute. As for a rematch with Taylor what would it prove? Not a lot I think, Taylor has poor stamina and when Carl changed his game plan and upped the pace Taylor couldnt cope and he got KTFO ! I think thats the outcome if it ever happened again IMO, Taylor doesnt have the stamina to fight a pressure fighter for 12 rounds without getting stopped.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
career defining fight for my man, I know he can take Pavlik. It will be so good if this happens, Carl finally gets notion for once from a top promoter
thing is if Pavlik drops Froch the way Taylor did, he finishes him, that being said, it's a toss up fight
Pavlik wont be as fasting starting as Taylor was, if Taylor fights in the first 5 rounds throughout the whole 12 he would beat ANY fighter believe me on that one. I think your correct its a pick em fight, but Pavlik wouldnt have fough anybody like Froch before, whos shown he can really dig deep when he needs too. I think its a battle of power and who has the better chin, both like to apply pressure and come forward thats why I think this fight really could have fight of the year written all over it.
Agree that Froch v. Pavlik has fight of the year written all over it. Froch came off like a twit for going on and on about Calzaghe, but coming to the states and beating Jermain and then wanting to fight Bute and Hopkins - the guy has balls. Straight up. Plus he is fun to watch because his defense is porous and his style is awkward. Also, from what I've seen he has shown respect for JT and has shown respect for KP. The fight being at 168 levels the playing field a bit. I still lean toward Pavlik. Froch doesn't have the style that will bother him. I would guess mid-fight KO. I don't think the fight happens, however, because I don't see Froch beating Bute who is lined up to fight him first.
[quote=bzkfn;744081]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
.
Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
I've never met a fight fan who loathes Pavlik more. I've never read a positive post from you about Pavlik. Why would Pavlik avoid AA? Think about it - he fought Miranda when Miranda looked like the real deal and where he was a 3-1 underdog. He then fought Taylor when he was even more of an underdog. Then Taylor again when most favored him to lose. Then Bernard Hopkins. He just doesn't strike me as someone who avoids fighters.
I also agree on the point that Kessler hasn't fought a meaningful fight since losing to JC in 2007. He also hasn't fought in 8 months with no fights on the horizon and knee-deep in a promotional dispute that could drag on for another year. There is no evidence to suggest that he will ever be in pre-JC form. He didn't look amazing against Hausler et al. However, if he was in pre-JC form, he would be favored to beat Bute, Froch, Pavlik, and AA. But, that is a moot point. He isn't fighting. For now, he is irrelevant.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
I've never met a fight fan who loathes Pavlik more. I've never read a positive post from you about Pavlik. Why would Pavlik avoid AA? Think about it - he fought Miranda when Miranda looked like the real deal and where he was a 3-1 underdog. He then fought Taylor when he was even more of an underdog. Then Taylor again when most favored him to lose. Then Bernard Hopkins. He just doesn't strike me as someone who avoids fighters.
I also agree on the point that Kessler hasn't fought a meaningful fight since losing to JC in 2007. He also hasn't fought in 8 months with no fights on the horizon and knee-deep in a promotional dispute that could drag on for another year. There is no evidence to suggest that he will ever be in pre-JC form. He didn't look amazing against Hausler et al. However, if he was in pre-JC form, he would be favored to beat Bute, Froch, Pavlik, and AA. But, that is a moot point. He isn't fighting. For now, he is irrelevant.
I didn't say Pavlik was avoiding it. What I meant was, Bob Arum doesn't fancy it. I don't loathe Kelly at all. I love his style. The guy brings action and is rarely in a dull fight. It's just if we're being honest, he and Abraham should be together in the ring. Every time Abraham tries to establish negotiations, Arum is there telling the media that someone like John Duddy or Sergio Mora makes better financial sense and would be a fight the fans want more. I mean...are you fucking kidding me? Honestly, the whole point of having Abraham come to the US to fight Miranda was to get his name in place for a big meeting with Pavlik. Then when Pavlik signed to fight Mora, Abraham was going to get his mandatory against Lorenzo out of the way in the US on the same day to again get the media talking up comparisons. Then recently a deal looked to be closing towards the end of the year, Sauerland said he was in negotiations and once again Top Rank say they're going in a different direction with Sturm. Don't get me wrong, I like the Sturm and Froch fights, but Sturm followed by Froch suggests a clear intent to move up to 168 and not fight Abraham. Like I said though...its clever, because if Arum doesn't fancy the Abraham fight for Kelly, he has taken all Abraham's options away so Kelly comes off looking like the guy who has tried to establish his career.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Pavlik is the better fighter technically, he's a better boxer but Froch is probably sturdier which could make the difference considering even though Pavlik is more technical than Froch he's not that hard to hit. I'll still go with Pavlik though as he shouldn't have a hard time landing the right hand and Froch, good chin or not, can't take those all night long.
-
Re: Arum to Bunce: "Sturm in October, Froch in January is the plan"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bzkfn
Seems clear to me they hope to avoid Abraham. This way though, Pavlik comes out looking like the superstar of the Middleweight division, and who is there left for Abraham to fight thats meaningful? Apart from Winky or Paul Williams, he doesn't have many options at 160 other than paper opposition.
I've never met a fight fan who loathes Pavlik more. I've never read a positive post from you about Pavlik. Why would Pavlik avoid AA? Think about it - he fought Miranda when Miranda looked like the real deal and where he was a 3-1 underdog. He then fought Taylor when he was even more of an underdog. Then Taylor again when most favored him to lose. Then Bernard Hopkins. He just doesn't strike me as someone who avoids fighters.
I also agree on the point that Kessler hasn't fought a meaningful fight since losing to JC in 2007. He also hasn't fought in 8 months with no fights on the horizon and knee-deep in a promotional dispute that could drag on for another year. There is no evidence to suggest that he will ever be in pre-JC form. He didn't look amazing against Hausler et al. However, if he was in pre-JC form, he would be favored to beat Bute, Froch, Pavlik, and AA. But, that is a moot point. He isn't fighting. For now, he is irrelevant.
I didn't say Pavlik was avoiding it. What I meant was, Bob Arum doesn't fancy it. I don't loathe Kelly at all. I love his style. The guy brings action and is rarely in a dull fight. It's just if we're being honest, he and Abraham should be together in the ring. Every time Abraham tries to establish negotiations, Arum is there telling the media that someone like John Duddy or Sergio Mora makes better financial sense and would be a fight the fans want more. I mean...are you fucking kidding me? Honestly, the whole point of having Abraham come to the US to fight Miranda was to get his name in place for a big meeting with Pavlik. Then when Pavlik signed to fight Mora, Abraham was going to get his mandatory against Lorenzo out of the way in the US on the same day to again get the media talking up comparisons. Then recently a deal looked to be closing towards the end of the year, Sauerland said he was in negotiations and once again Top Rank say they're going in a different direction with Sturm. Don't get me wrong, I like the Sturm and Froch fights, but Sturm followed by Froch suggests a clear intent to move up to 168 and not fight Abraham. Like I said though...its clever, because if Arum doesn't fancy the Abraham fight for Kelly, he has taken all Abraham's options away so Kelly comes off looking like the guy who has tried to establish his career.
Fair enough. My thing is I don't see AA as a spoiler of Pavlik's plans. I just don't see it. I can see AA winning, but the fight would be a scrap and close. If you want to keep Pavlik away from fighters, keep him away from techinically sound, fast boxers. On that note, I can see Sturm as having the potential to sneak away with a win over Pavlik. He wouldn't hurt Kelly, but he does have boxing skills (I still pick KP). In terms of Froch, Arum probably thinks the Froch fight isn't risky and will be an entertaining fight and that is why he is even in the mix. But, it won't happen if Froch loses against Bute.
