thats it...
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thats it...
no robbery dude it was a close fight, i had Cotto winning 114-113, IMO without the cut it would have been a completely different fight, rematch wouldn't be out of the question, good fight thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
116-111 pretty much means Cotto didn't even need the last rounds to win the fight. Pretty much in the bag even if Clottey had finished strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
I had it 115-112 for Clottey
Clottey robbed himself.
Anybody with two eyes could see 116-111 was wacko.
i don't agree with the 116-111 at all, but a 114-113 win for Cotto is definately not out of the questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty116-111 pretty much means Cotto didn't even need the last rounds to win the fight. Pretty much in the bag even if Clottey had finished strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
I will never be a Miguel Cotto fan, its not his fault he dosent score the fight but gimme a gotdam break.
Yea he fought on despite a cut but a trillion other fighters have. Cotto loss and got his ass beat end of
Unfortunately for him after another brutal fight he is probably going to be shot going forward
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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesi don't agree with the 116-111 at all, but a 114-113 win for Cotto is definately not out of the questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty116-111 pretty much means Cotto didn't even need the last rounds to win the fight. Pretty much in the bag even if Clottey had finished strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
No it isn't but look at it this way
if Clottey had won the last 2 rounds still.
It would have been a draw. It would have been even on one, Clottey on the other, Cotto on the third.
So Regardless of what happened by the end of the 10th a round which Clottey won Cotto already had a draw in the bag and THAT is BS. S o you can't say Clottey robbed himself, there was no way for him to win without KOing Cotto
I hate people claiming robbery in a close fight. I thought Cotto won. Clottey gave it away.
116-111 is abso-fukking-lutely rediculous.
Cotto won. It was a close fight I had it 114-113 Cotto, some had it 115-112 (116-111 is a bit absurd though), hell if anything Cotto was robbed of a UD. Clottey wasn't robbed he got beat, and he gave it away too bad so sad sucks for him.
of course it is (try all you can and you won't find anybody who buys 116-111) but since you're a Clottey fan what was he doing in the 10-12? Wasn't everything in his favor going into that? Why did he go into cruise control, stop throwing the right so much? Dude's bizarre, its like he's got a mental block.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesi don't agree with the 116-111 at all, but a 114-113 win for Cotto is definately not out of the questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
No it isn't but look at it this way
if Clottey had won the last 2 rounds still.
It would have been a draw. It would have been even on one, Clottey on the other, Cotto on the third.
So Regardless of what happened by the end of the 10th a round which Clottey won Cotto already had a draw in the bag and THAT is BS. S o you can't say Clottey robbed himself, there was no way for him to win without KOing Cotto
The guy had everything in his favor. Not only is he arguably just a better fighter than Cotto he had a guy who had trouble seeing right hands and he's got a great, fast right hand.
this.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Clottey won the 10th, Cotto only landed one left hook at the end of that round but was beaten the rest of it, after that Cotto was boxing and backing away. And like I said by the 10th which Clottey won, he was getting a draw regardless. The fact that by the 9th round he was so far behind on the scorecards he needed a knockout to win is just plain bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanof course it is (try all you can and you won't find anybody who buys 116-111) but since you're a Clottey fan what was he doing in the 10-12? Wasn't everything in his favor going into that? Why did he go into cruise control, stop throwing the right so much? Dude's bizarre, its like he's got a mental block.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
No it isn't but look at it this way
if Clottey had won the last 2 rounds still.
It would have been a draw. It would have been even on one, Clottey on the other, Cotto on the third.
So Regardless of what happened by the end of the 10th a round which Clottey won Cotto already had a draw in the bag and THAT is BS. S o you can't say Clottey robbed himself, there was no way for him to win without KOing Cotto
The guy had everything in his favor. Not only is he arguably just a better fighter than Cotto he had a guy who had trouble seeing right hands and he's got a great, fast right hand.
I thought Clottey took it 114-113, maybe 115-112 (but I'm removing a round because I was supporting Clottey), but that takes nothing away from Cotto, who removed any doubts I might have had about his heart before the fight. It's not a robbery, but it's one of those fights that DEFINITELY deserves a rematch, & people can complain about the cut, but Cotto wasn't exactly a complete victim, with endless low blows & spinning Clottey around. But that's part of boxing, as are cuts.
Scoring it 116-111 is an absolute joke, but Clottey needed to push it more after the 8th to make sure because he was fighting Cotto, the champ, in NY with Arum looking towards a Pacquiao-Cotto fight.
close fight but 116-111 is very suspicious
and freakin that time it took for the cards to be annouced is always such a bad idea, it always happens when theres a close fight.
plus pr day tomorrow and top rank promotions comon dude the fight was so rigged the only way josh could have won was by a clear KO
its almost like cotto only need to do half of what clottey does to win a round
Cotto is marketable. Cotto has a strong fan base. More people want to see Cotto fight than see Clottey fight. Cotto generates more money than Clottey. Cotto has a more pleasing style than Clottey. Cotto makes more exciting fights than Clottey. So one score card was off. Thats why.
The other two cards were legitimate.
Clottey isnt stupid. Or maybe he is. He admitted how difficult it would be a to win a decision in MSG but still took off the final, most important rounds of the fight then tried to pull some whining that made him look bad in front of everyone. Its not Cottos fault he won, it's Clotteys fault Cotto won.
Cotto looked a hell of a lot more gassed to me and he kept throwing punches. Couldnt Clottey tough it out and let his hands go a bit? Thats his own fault!
It was a split decision, though the 116 111 was ridiculous, it was not a robbery. I had cotto by 1 round and i was rooting for clottey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Round 1 i had for clottey till he got knocked down
Clottey also gave it away when he decided not to through in the 12th and some other rounds
People need to stop throwing there toy's out of there pram. It was a very close fight not a robbery at all, i wasn't actually scoring it RBR.
But the impression i got is that Joshua Clottey didn't do enough in the last 2 rounds.
And Miguel Cotto may of stole it and remember Joshua Clottey, was legitmately knocked down. Which made a difference in the fight.
Yes the two judges did score it completely wrong, but that doesn't mean Miguel Cotto didn't deserve to win or that it was a robbery.
It was a close fight. I have to watch it again to score it fairly. I didn't know who was gonna get the decision and wouldn't have complained if it went either way.
Clottey landed more punches, but fights are judge round by round. A ton of punches in one round wins the round but his lack of output in other rounds and especially the championship rounds didn't help him.
Cotto on the other hand did a lot of running. I know the blood in the eye didn't help, but he needed to try to land harder punches by luring Clottely into exchanges.
I want to see a rematch. Both guys put on a good show but I was hoping that one or other would look more dominant.
You realize that even if Clottey had won the 11, and the 12th rounds he was getting a draw? He won the 10th and that ensured a draw if he won the last 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
I think it was obvious how dominant he was by the time the 9th round rolled around. But on the scorecards he was already far enough behind that he wasn't getting a decision, only a draw at most.
So you can't say "Its Cllottey's own fault" when even if he'd finished strong the most he'd have gotten was a draw The fact that by the end of the 9th Cotto was so far ahead that Clottey needed a knockout to win. You can't blame that on Clottey
It was a similar fight to Berto-Collazo, although its funny that some people who claimed that as a robbery don't see this is as one.
IMO neither is, this was a close fight, & Cotto showed world-class boxing skills in the last few rounds, although I did feel Clottey took the fight.
Exactly. The cut changed the whole complexion of the fight. Without it there would have been far less running from Cotto, who simply couldn't see the punches coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno robbery dude it was a close fight, i had Cotto winning 114-113, IMO without the cut it would have been a completely different fight, rematch wouldn't be out of the question, good fight thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Cotto edged it, Clottey gave it away when he should have been trying to dominate the end. He didn't do enough.
And Clottey getting thrown down and hurting his knee didn't change anything :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by milesQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesno robbery dude it was a close fight, i had Cotto winning 114-113, IMO without the cut it would have been a completely different fight, rematch wouldn't be out of the question, good fight thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Exactly. The cut changed the whole complexion of the fight. Without it there would have been far less running from Cotto, who simply couldn't see the punches coming.
Cotto edged it, Clottey gave it away when he should have been trying to dominate the end. He didn't do enough.
There have been far worse cases of robbery than this one.
I had it 114-113 Cotto. Clottey just stopped working in the last three rounds, dunno if it was complacency, fatigue or a mixture of the two, but if you've just beaten the living crap out of your opponent in the previous two rounds by using stiff jabs and following it up with hooks and uppercuts why do you suddenly stop doing those things? And I also didn't like his football-esque dive in the fifth and him trying to get points deducted off Cotto in the last.
I have a new found respect for Cotto, never used to like the guy for some reason but he manned up tonight and all credit to him. Clottey lost the fight all by himself.
Not nearly as much. The only round that it looked maybe it had an effect was the sixth (and who knows what's going through Clottey's head, he's a strange dude) and like they said Clottey's not a footwork fighter. On the other hand Cotto seemed to clearly have a problem seeing the right for about ten rounds.
It only had a noticable effect for one round and afterwards his movement was fine. He didn't mention it too much after the fight either. Cotto had to go most of the fight with impaired vision. I think the latter had more of a bearing on the fight overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyAnd Clottey getting thrown down and hurting his knee didn't change anything :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by milesQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Exactly. The cut changed the whole complexion of the fight. Without it there would have been far less running from Cotto, who simply couldn't see the punches coming.
Cotto edged it, Clottey gave it away when he should have been trying to dominate the end. He didn't do enough.
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Clottey isn't a footwork fighter no, but he throws a great left hook and a good jab, without your left leg to plant that they aren't gonna be very effective.
Notice how Clottey's left hook and jab disappeared after he was thrown down?
IMO, Clottey stopped throwing punches late in the fight because Cotto started catching him big time him in exchanges.
Cotto gutted it out.
It looked like it did. But after Clottey was thrown down when did he throw his left hook or his jab as consistantly as he had before being thrown down? You need your front foot to throw the left hook and the jab effectively, it disappeared after he was thrown down and it was his jab and left hook that was setting up his offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIt only had a noticable effect for one round and afterwards his movement was fine. He didn't mention it too much after the fight either. Cotto had to go most of the fight with impaired vision. I think the latter had more of a bearing on the fight overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyAnd Clottey getting thrown down and hurting his knee didn't change anything :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
So it may have looked like it didnt effect him only because he wasn't grimmacing in pain every second, but it obviously effected him because he rarely if ever jabbed or threw his left hook after, he was trying to combo and leap forward and load up with his right, didn't set up his shots anymore after he hurt his knee, so it DID effect him
Im not even arguing about the 116-111 card. But he knew the situation. He could have acted in a way which could not have been denied. Instead he turned in these relaxed, ambiguous rounds that of course are going to Cotto for the reasons I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou realize that even if Clottey had won the 11, and the 12th rounds he was getting a draw? He won the 10th and that ensured a draw if he won the last 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
I think it was obvious how dominant he was by the time the 9th round rolled around. But on the scorecards he was already far enough behind that he wasn't getting a decision, only a draw at most.
So you can't say "Its Cllottey's own fault" when even if he'd finished strong the most he'd have gotten was a draw The fact that by the end of the 9th Cotto was so far ahead that Clottey needed a knockout to win. You can't blame that on Clottey
I dont understand it. Maybe Clottey likes to feel like the world is going against him. In the fight thread someone even posted the fight must be fixed cause Clottey would just let Cotto off the hook when it looked like he could do damage. The way Clottey fought at times, I dont know if he even wanted it.
It was a great fight and honestly could have gone either way but I felt Cotto shaded it.
I think Kellerman summed it up perfectly when he said Clottey was the better fighter, Cotto the better man.
For me it was Cotto who displayed the heart of a champion, coming back from adversity without complaint, and winning the championship rounds, or the 12th at least, and getting the decisive knockdown.
Clottey for all his talent for me doesn't have a champions heart. He gave a performance Christiano Ronaldo would have been proud of when he fell and hurt his knee and then rather pathetically tried to get a point deduction from Cotto claiming a back of the head injury in the final round.
Cotto could have pulled out after 5 or 6 rounds and won on points due to the accidental cut but instead he displayed a champion's courage and won the fight over 12 rounds.
I have no doubt had the roles been reversed Clottey would have been out of there in 6 and got a technical win, he just seems to exaggerate all his injuries and injustices and in such situations, when a fight is has close as this I'd always hope they give it to the fighter who fought like a real man, which was Cotto tonight.
It was similar in a way to the Winky Taylor fight, Clottey like Wright had the fight going into the 12th but with victory within his grasp he took his foot off the pedal and didn't give his all. He can moan and bitch but ultimately the loss was his own doing.
I do agree that 116-111 was far too wide though, only a point or 2 either way in this one.
What I'm saying is it isnt worth complaining that Clottey didn't do enough late when by the end of the 9th round he was already so far behind on the scorecards he needed a knockout to win. And thats something you can't blame Clottey for. He wasn't getting a decision anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The KillerIm not even arguing about the 116-111 card. But he knew the situation. He could have acted in a way which could not have been denied. Instead he turned in these relaxed, ambiguous rounds that of course are going to Cotto for the reasons I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyYou realize that even if Clottey had won the 11, and the 12th rounds he was getting a draw? He won the 10th and that ensured a draw if he won the last 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortez The Killer
I think it was obvious how dominant he was by the time the 9th round rolled around. But on the scorecards he was already far enough behind that he wasn't getting a decision, only a draw at most.
So you can't say "Its Cllottey's own fault" when even if he'd finished strong the most he'd have gotten was a draw The fact that by the end of the 9th Cotto was so far ahead that Clottey needed a knockout to win. You can't blame that on Clottey
I dont understand it. Maybe Clottey likes to feel like the world is going against him. In the fight thread someone even posted the fight must be fixed cause Clottey would just let Cotto off the hook when it looked like he could do damage. The way Clottey fought at times, I dont know if he even wanted it.
watch the replay, Clottey was desperately trying to clinch and was half way on Cotto's back, there's no need for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyAnd Clottey getting thrown down and hurting his knee didn't change anything :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by milesQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Exactly. The cut changed the whole complexion of the fight. Without it there would have been far less running from Cotto, who simply couldn't see the punches coming.
Cotto edged it, Clottey gave it away when he should have been trying to dominate the end. He didn't do enough.
What Bilbo said
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Great Post!!!;)
I noticed more the right hand missing. Everything was missing. Clottey not saying anything about it is pretty much open and shut, dude's like Marlon Wayans in I'm gonna get you Sucka when he gets the splinter, he's a bit dramatic about injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Clottey isn't a footwork fighter no, but he throws a great left hook and a good jab, without your left leg to plant that they aren't gonna be very effective.
Notice how Clottey's left hook and jab disappeared after he was thrown down?
Or Damon Wayans, I can't be sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanI noticed more the right hand missing. Everything was missing. Clottey not saying anything about it is pretty much open and shut, dude's like Marlon Wayans in I'm gonna get you Sucka when he gets the splinter, he's a bit dramatic about injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Clottey isn't a footwork fighter no, but he throws a great left hook and a good jab, without your left leg to plant that they aren't gonna be very effective.
Notice how Clottey's left hook and jab disappeared after he was thrown down?
yeah the right hand was missing, he wasn't setting it up with anything. like I Said his left hook and jab disappeared after getting thrown down.
All this can be settled if they had a rematch.
But I've just thought of a perfect fight for 147 now.
How about Clottey vs Collazo? Both of these guys feel like the bad luck fighters of the division so why not fight each other? Winner fights Berto.
I think Clottey should go for Margarito if he can get there before Cotto. I think he takes him out this time. Otherwise, it might be an idea to move up the Light-Middle, where he'd be probably go to being the 2nd best guy in the division, maybe the best if PW goes to 160