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basing from a post from a poster here at saddo named generalbulldog. however, hatton has a fairly good resume with wins over the likes of jlc, tszyu, urango, maliggnaggi, maussa, collazo, pep, rowland, pendleton, hutchinson, phillips, tackie, stewart, oliveira, ben rabah and only has losses against the two p4p#1 in the world during the time of those fights: pbf and pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
do you agree with general bulldog?
I guess it depends on how you define "elite". He's definitely not elite anymore, but in his prime Hatton was a very good fighter who was just a notch below the top tier (ie. the Mayweathers', Pacquiao's, Mosley's etc.). I would say that he was a good/great fighter who fell just below the elite level, but I'm sure many people will disagree with me.
Ricky is a GREAT British World champion , he has a good resume , and is one of the finest fighters to come out of Britain since the War.
He lost only to the best p4p of his time , however in the wider picture , he doesnt hold a light to guys like JCC ,Duran , ODLH , PACMAN , Mayweather etc.
Cant beat that for a fair call.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
At his peak he would give any 140 guy past or present a tough fight, he was a real handfull but he has never been a 'truly elite' fighter. He was never consistent enough to be, one fight he would move well and pick shots and break a guy down and others he walked head on missing shots and eating them in return.
He defended his Junior Welterweight Title something like 26 times and only lost to two fighters considered p4p the best. Named 2005 fighter of the year.
Is it not that "elite fighter" considered to be the group of fighters at the top of the weightclass? What the time frame? Are you talking about all time elite/great fighters? or are you asking was he ever considered an elite fighter?
Today, if you consider the top 4 or 5 as elite, (arguably) Pacquiao, Bradley, Holt, writer and Urango is Hatton competitive against these fighters? Absolutely! with one exception.
Yesterday, (figuratively, say the last 5 years) without a doubt an elite fighter.
ATG, if he retires today, I don't think he makes it to the 100's list.
What Al said! ;)
To me.. to be elite you have to beat the elites. And so far he hasn't done that.. you could argue that Tsyzu and Castillo were elite but it was clear they were past their best, although that doesn't take anything away from the victory, you can only fight who's infront of you after all.
I'm not taking anything away from Hatton, he's one of my favourite fighters, but I think he's always stumbled when trying to achieve elite status, and he always will. But I hope he ends his career on a high, I'd love to see one or even two more fights from him.. to me he can still easily beat Witter, Bradley or Holt.
I don't disagree with what you are saying apart from "Tszyu was clearly past his best" I honestly don't think he was, there were no signs of decline in Tszyu, he just got mauled and out gamed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyUK
I'm not so sure I would say elite. He beat one elite fighter and his win over Collazo was very controversial. I think Hatton had/has to do more to be considered elite. Take away the Kostya Tsyzu win and is this really a debate? Basically, before the Tsyzu fight he was not even questioned as elite and after the Tsyzu fight he got knocked out by the next two elite fighters he fought. Elite level is a different category. Bradley, Judah, Campbell, Collazo, Mayorga etc are not elite fighters. They are good fighters. Hatton is a good/great fighter who was the ruler of the good fighters but he just wasn't smart enough of a fighter to keep with the elite level.
sums it up for me just short of elite :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
KT had been woefully inactive. It was an insane fight, stupid time in the morning and a ridiculous amount of mauling that Hatton was allowed to get away with. Most of the British fans didn't mind turning a blind eye to that as long as there man won - hence, calling the ref a cheat everytime Hatton fought in the US when he broke up the tight fest for 'not allowing Ricky to work'.;D:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI don't disagree with what you are saying apart from "Tszyu was clearly past his best" I honestly don't think he was, there were no signs of decline in Tszyu, he just got mauled and out gamed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyUK
Castillo was way gone when Hatton got to him.
There are some good names on paper. For instance Ben Tackie is a decent name but a terrible 1-2 plodder.
Hatton, great British fighter, but far from the elite.
Tszyu fought Hatton on the back of looking seriously impressive against Mitchell, was a hot favourite and ranked P4P no.3.. That has to go down as a great win for Hatton.
All his opponents after Tszyu were rated top 10 by The Ring.
He spent 4 years in-and-out of The Ring P4P top 10.
So not an all-time great but an elite fighter for his time period.
well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Shows how much they know.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
They are the bible of boxing. So that is gospel. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyShows how much they know.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
As someone said what is one's definition of elite? Everyone's definition is different. My definition of elite would be someone with the resume of Floyd, Roy Jones, Oscar, Marvin Hagler, Carlos Monzon, Pernell Whittaker, Julio Cesar Chavez, and even the Pacman has somewhat reached that status in my eyes.
And based on my definition of elite Ricky Hatton doesn't belong, even though he was talented. But I always considered Hatton to be in the groups of guys like Zab Judah, Meldrick Taylor, Naseem hamed, etc. Good but not great, falls short of it.
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Originally Posted by CFH
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by Kel
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Originally Posted by blegit
Each person's comments I bolded are pretty much how I feel about his career. Actually, it's exactly what I think!Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Write your own you lazy Koont ;D
I would consider him and elite fighter, he has dominated a division the better part of almost 4 years, a tough division at that, he moved up to WW and was not the same dominate fighter he was at 140 but he found a way to win his bouts and that is whats important.
His 2 losses were to not only P4P rated #1 fighters but PBF and Pacquiao are among the best of all time.....is Hatton a P4P ATG? no but he is certainly elite though he is not the fighter he was a few years ago but his stylle wears out a career quickly
LOL! I'm on my way to a LOOOOOONG day of work! 9am-10pm, but enough bellyaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I found it way too convinient that people already stated what was going on in my mind when I read the thread title.
Yeh I agree Daxx. Elite does not = ATG, Hatton was definitely Elite, but definitely not a "Great"Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
No, he was never an elite fighter. And he'll never stablish his greatness.
I don't think there was ever a point in time where Hatton was clearly one of the Top 10 PFP fighters in the world. Therefore I don't think he was ever an elite fighter. He was a very good fighter with a big fanbase, and his popularity/marketability made some people view him as being a better fighter than he really was.
Brit refs made him looked like an elite for most part of his career. His fans overhyped him so much too.
I've never overhyped or made unrealistic statements about Hatton. I know he isn't a great and I know his limitations, but he WAS ELITE. He was the best fighter at 140 for 3 or 4 years, that by definition makes you Elite
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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyKT had been woefully inactive. It was an insane fight, stupid time in the morning and a ridiculous amount of mauling that Hatton was allowed to get away with. Most of the British fans didn't mind turning a blind eye to that as long as there man won - hence, calling the ref a cheat everytime Hatton fought in the US when he broke up the tight fest for 'not allowing Ricky to work'.;D:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HI don't disagree with what you are saying apart from "Tszyu was clearly past his best" I honestly don't think he was, there were no signs of decline in Tszyu, he just got mauled and out gamed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyUK
Castillo was way gone when Hatton got to him.
There are some good names on paper. For instance Ben Tackie is a decent name but a terrible 1-2 plodder.
Hatton, great British fighter, but far from the elite.
What she said....
Ricky has been and still is one of my fave fighters; love that sort of reckless abandon he brings in the ring. And though he has some good wins on his record against good fighters, he's not elite.
Elite fighters know how to adapt in the ring and no one can say Ricky is good at switching to a better gameplan when the time calls for it; it sure wasn't adapting in his last fight, he just got more stubborn and continued doing what he does and got trainwrecked for it. JMM got knocked down several times and changed up his game to make a fight of it; that's elite, not what Ricky does{or more specifically doesn't do}.
Elite fighters don't need referees helping them stay afloat by fixing his shoelace problems so he desn't get ktfo in his backyard against some guy named Lazcano{who?}
Elite figters don't need to resort to what had to be the low blow of all low blows when he fought KT; punching his balls into his throat. That's why he's not elite; he got used to being coddled by all those refs in UK who let him get away with that stuff his whole career. He never learned to adapt because he didn't have to.
So they fooled the Boxing Writers Association of America and The Ring into naming Hatton 2005 Fighter of the Year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
Damn good refs in Britain then.
Ricky Hatton reminds me of Barry McGuigan in a way, both men in there prime used to bring it. Both men had a terrific body-attack, both men have one great win over a great opponent Kostya Tszyu, Eusebio Pedroza. Although they had clearly seen better days. But i'd say more so with Eusebio Pedroza.
Both men never really recovered from there real first loss, not counting Barry McGuigan's 3rd pro fight loss, and both men had an embarrassing loss after that. And now that it looks like Ricky Hatton may retire, i think there career's are quite suprisingly similar. Except obviously Ricky Hatton lost to a higher level of fighters.