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Lets get something straight!
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
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Re: Lets get something straight!
I didn't know you could make a catch weight below the limit, but it makes sense, and I don't know why people make such a big fuss about Manny fighting one of them at 144-145. As for Oscar, I hope people realize that Oscar was going to fight Floyd at 147 before he retired.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
I just don't see the point. The weight classes exist, so why not just follow what exists instead of trying to find loopholes around them. Pac is at 140, Cotto is at 147. If Manny cannot deal with 147 then he should stick it out at 140. It's a simple logic.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Personally Im not overly bothered about the catchweight stuff. But, getting Cotto down to 145 will only put an unnecessary asterisk next to any Pac victory, whereas I don't think they need that stipulation to make the fight winnable.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Your right you can weigh in anything between 140 & 147, however, that's how it should remain. You should not be able to win the title if you do not beat the guy with the weightclass maximum being in effect, I see it the same as someone weighing in over the limit. If they fight at catchweight, the title should not be up for grabs. & as for Oscar fighting Floyd at 147, yes that was going to happen, but Floyd had fought Oscar with effectively everything against him & beaten him so had earnt the right to dictate terms in a rematch, but if that fight had gone ahead I would have considered it an absolute joke because the 1st fight hadn't been deserving of a rematch
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Freddie Roach is obviously always seeking for the best interest for his fighters. At below 147, Pac clearly has all sorts of advantage.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.
If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.
People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.
Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.
A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.
It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?
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Re: Lets get something straight!
I'd prefer it just be 147 even though Pacquaio would probably weigh no more than 142 or so just because making it a catchweight gives a built in excuse for people that want to whine if Manny wins.
I personally don't think 145 is ridiculous as Cotto said from the beginning that he would fight Manny but at no lower than 145. But still I'd rather just see it be a 147 fight, then it will be just that Cotto was shot, not shot and weight drained. Now who's whining? Me, that's who.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
I'd prefer it just be 147 even though Pacquaio would probably weigh no more than 142 or so just because making it a catchweight gives a built in excuse for people that want to whine if Manny wins.
I personally don't think 145 is ridiculous as Cotto said from the beginning that he would fight Manny but at no lower than 145. But still I'd rather just see it be a 147 fight, then it will be just that Cotto was shot, not shot and weight drained. Now who's whining? Me, that's who.
If he beat Cotto at 147, I would give him complete credit. I've never thought Cotto was as good as many cracked him up to be, and for me whenever in with elite opposition he has either got beaten or left it too close for comfort. However, its well-known that his lifestyle out of the ring isn't always the best & I think pushing him even a couple of pounds could make the difference in how effective he is as a fighter. If Pacquiao beats him at 147 (which I think he can do) I can't see how anyone could complain (although some probably will).
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.
If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.
People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.
Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.
A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.
It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?
Wow, first of all neither MOsley nor Cotto have significant troubles making 147 hence why Cotto came in at 146 for this last fight. Second Hatton is ranked way higher than Clottey p4p, so was Margarito. And Margarito beat CLottey so I don't know how your logic about COtto facing the best opponent fits, maybe the hardest opponent for his style, but even then I think Hatton was the hardest opponent stylewise on paper for Pacquiao, but great fighters find a way to adapt, if Pacquiao tried to fight Hatton like he used to, he would have gotten mauled.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.
If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.
People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.
Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.
A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.
It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?
Wow, first of all neither MOsley nor Cotto have significant troubles making 147 hence why Cotto came in at 146 for this last fight. Second Hatton is ranked way higher than Clottey p4p, so was Margarito. And Margarito beat CLottey so I don't know how your logic about COtto facing the best opponent fits, maybe the hardest opponent for his style, but even then I think Hatton was the hardest opponent stylewise on paper for Pacquiao, but great fighters find a way to adapt, if Pacquiao tried to fight Hatton like he used to, he would have gotten mauled.
Both do have trouble getting down, Mosley because of his age & Cotto because his lifestyle outside the ring involves a fair amount of eating & drinking. Just because he made 146, you will realize that he's never been below that, & when you're making weight every extra pound is a struggle. Like I said, 145 is fine as a fight, but NOT a title fight. The only time I see a catchweight as acceptable is in that such as PBF-JMM
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I just don't see the point. The weight classes exist, so why not just follow what exists instead of trying to find loopholes around them. Pac is at 140, Cotto is at 147. If Manny cannot deal with 147 then he should stick it out at 140. It's a simple logic.
i was thinking the same
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
you said it ranging from 141 to 147, so if Manny wants to become welterweight champion he has to fight a champion at welter and that champion is allowed to max out if he wants up to 147 and has NO NEED to go any lower than that if he chooses not to, if Manny wants to win a title at WELTERWEIGHT, well he needs to fight it at the range of welter and no catchweight bullshit, advantage? the guy's at welter are fighting in their class, if Pacquiao thinks he doesn't have a shot at them at their best, well he shouldn't take the fight, simple as that
i think Calderon should take up a fight against Manny for his lineal Jr. Welter title, but so that it's even, he should ask it to be at 120 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.
If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.
People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.
Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.
A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.
It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?
Cotto himself said he could do 145 no problem, in his last bout he weighed in at 146. Pac is unlikely to even weigh in at 144 if he fights above junier weltwer weight. Do you still think its unfair?
Are you guys telling me you guys believe pac would easily beat cotto at any weight below 147? :D nuthuggers! ;D
Its up to the two fighters and this fight is likely to happen at a catchweight.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.
If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.
People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.
Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.
A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.
It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?
Cotto himself said he could do 145 no problem, in his last bout he weighed in at 146. Pac is unlikely to even weigh in at 144 if he fights above junier weltwer weight. Do you still think its unfair?
Are you guys telling me you guys believe pac would easily beat cotto at any weight below 147? :D nuthuggers! ;D
Its up to the two fighters and this fight is likely to happen at a catchweight.
Of course he said that. Offer me 10 million dollars and I'll tell you I can make 80 lbs and I'll try my best to do it. Boxers say and do all kinds of things to get marquee fights made.
Just because he can make the weight doesn't mean he's going to be at his best. I think Pac would beat Cotto handily at 147 and that victory would have a lot more credibility than one at 145. Like it or not, if this fight takes place anywhere below 147, it will always have an asterix beside it in many peoples eyes.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
I was thinking Pac should just fight at 147 for the titles, but a fair catchweight for no titles would still be fine for me. Something like 144 is fair for both sides imo.
BTW, the Hatton fans are now saying their man wasn't the same after the Kostya fight, but they sure didn't say that when they were predicting a knockout victory against Floyd and Pac just a few months back. And other lame excuses like his lifestyle came into play.:rolleyes:
I swear the Hatton fans are probably the 2nd most annoying fans after Pac fans.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Are people not aware of weight range a title can be fought for? for example: the welterweight title (not the junior welterweight title) can be on the line between the weighs of 141 - 147! Fighters usually cut weigh on point to the maximum limit, in welterweights they prefer to weigh at 147 but weight down to 141 is acceptable. Fighters go for the maximum limit in hope for advantage, rarely fighters will try to weigh less than the maximum limit because of the common belief the heavier you are the stronger you are.
What is all the fuss about pacs catchweight deal? for mosley or cotto? It would be pac first catchweight fight and its not like his a real welterweight. He has fought onces at 135, 140, 147 and it aint like his recent fight was at 147. if he had grown to 147 then a catchweigh wouldnt make sense. But this guy has NOT and cotto or mosley has! I think the catchweight deal is to make the fight more equal and its insane how cotto is an underdog against pac?
Seriously, a year ago anybody that thought pac could fight cotto got laughed at. Now it seems like people are afraid to see pac fight cotto because they know his capable of winning another title from a real champ.
The catchweight deal is basically asking both fighters not to max out on the weight limit. People are saying its unfair to pacs oppenent he has to ask for a catchweight :lolhaha: seriously unfair to pacs bigger oppenent!? :rolleyes: Maxing out the weight limit is plain as day reaching for advantage. A catchweight is a fair deal between both fighters. Respect it people :mad:
I agree... except, It's not like he's a natural middleweight qualifying to fight in the welterweight class.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
I'd prefer it just be 147 even though Pacquaio would probably weigh no more than 142 or so just because making it a catchweight gives a built in excuse for people that want to whine if Manny wins.
I personally don't think 145 is ridiculous as Cotto said from the beginning that he would fight Manny but at no lower than 145. But still I'd rather just see it be a 147 fight, then it will be just that Cotto was shot, not shot and weight drained. Now who's whining? Me, that's who.
If he beat Cotto at 147, I would give him complete credit. I've never thought Cotto was as good as many cracked him up to be, and for me whenever in with elite opposition he has either got beaten or left it too close for comfort. However, its well-known that his lifestyle out of the ring isn't always the best & I think pushing him even a couple of pounds could make the difference in how effective he is as a fighter. If Pacquiao beats him at 147 (which I think he can do) I can't see how anyone could complain (although some probably will).
They will say Cotto was not the same after Margarito, just like how Hatton fans have said Hatton was close to being shot after Kostya.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I was thinking Pac should just fight at 147 for the titles, but a fair catchweight for no titles would still be fine for me. Something like 144 is fair for both sides imo.
BTW, the Hatton fans are now saying their man wasn't the same after the Kostya fight, but they sure didn't say that when they were predicting a knockout victory against Floyd and Pac just a few months back. And other lame excuses like his lifestyle came into play.:rolleyes:
I swear the Hatton fans are probably the 2nd most annoying fans after Pac fans.
What does that have to do with anything? No one has said anything close to that in this thread.
How could Hatton be shot after the best victory of his (at that point) relatively young career?
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Re: Lets get something straight!
It's negotiations. Isn't always about dollars, and who can blame Roach for tryin to get an edge for his most prized fighter. I would try to bring the naturally bigger men to a catch weight also. Where this ends up, who knows...but is all about negotiations for now.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I was thinking Pac should just fight at 147 for the titles, but a fair catchweight for no titles would still be fine for me. Something like 144 is fair for both sides imo.
BTW, the Hatton fans are now saying their man wasn't the same after the Kostya fight, but they sure didn't say that when they were predicting a knockout victory against Floyd and Pac just a few months back. And other lame excuses like his lifestyle came into play.:rolleyes:
I swear the Hatton fans are probably the 2nd most annoying fans after Pac fans.
What does that have to do with anything? No one has said anything close to that in this thread.
How could Hatton be shot after the best victory of his (at that point) relatively young career?
They didn't say it in this thread, but the Hatton fans at this forum said that their man wasn't the same anymore after that Kostya fight, saying things like his punch resistance is gone after that fight, and that's the reason why guys like Lazcano seemed to hurt him, blah, blah, blah, excuses. Pacman and Floyd beat him because of that, blah, blah, blah.
To be honest, Pacman should just wipe out the 140 division, fight Floyd for one last humongous payday and then call it a career.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I just don't see the point. The weight classes exist, so why not just follow what exists instead of trying to find loopholes around them. Pac is at 140, Cotto is at 147. If Manny cannot deal with 147 then he should stick it out at 140. It's a simple logic.
The loop hole is the 24 weigh-in before the fight allowing fighters to gain weight over the limit.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
And the reason why I brought up Hatton was because his fans were saying he was not the same after the Kostya fight being less punch resistance than before, therefore implying he was getting close to shot, hence why Floyd and Pacman beat him.
The same excuse if Pacman were to fight Cotto at 147 and if Pacman beats him the excuse will be Cotto was shot or close to being shot after Margarito, that will be the excuse.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I just don't see the point. The weight classes exist, so why not just follow what exists instead of trying to find loopholes around them. Pac is at 140, Cotto is at 147. If Manny cannot deal with 147 then he should stick it out at 140. It's a simple logic.
The loop hole is the 24 weigh-in before the fight allowing fighters to gain weight over the limit.
It's also a loop-hole that Pac was exploiting at the lower weights, so its not like he's a lonely victim of the 24 hour weigh in. The thing is Pac can probably beat Cotto at 147 so why not fight him there. I agree the weigh ins are bad, especially when you see a fighter weighin about 15-20lbs more than his opponents such as in the ODLH-PBF or Cotto-Jennings fights.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
And this is a reason why I am a proponent of going back to fight night weigh ins so guys will be forced to fight at their natural weight. I think Pacman has been coming into the fight at 148 starting back to his days as a Jr. lightweight, but of course he's not the only one to exploit this. Clottey came in at 171 in his welterweight fight against Diego Corrales.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And the reason why I brought up Hatton was because his fans were saying he was not the same after the Kostya fight being less punch resistance than before, therefore implying he was getting close to shot, hence why Floyd and Pacman beat him.
The same excuse if Pacman were to fight Cotto at 147 and if Pacman beats him the excuse will be Cotto was shot or close to being shot after Margarito, that will be the excuse.
you're really starting to wear it really thin dude, if anyone was to make excuses it would be the king of excuses, Pacquiao himself, the guy blamed his draw to Marquez on his fucking socks for godsake, i can see it now, if Cotto wins all the Pac fans would be, it was cause Miguel was just too naturally big for him
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I was thinking Pac should just fight at 147 for the titles, but a fair catchweight for no titles would still be fine for me. Something like 144 is fair for both sides imo.
BTW, the Hatton fans are now saying their man wasn't the same after the Kostya fight, but they sure didn't say that when they were predicting a knockout victory against Floyd and Pac just a few months back. And other lame excuses like his lifestyle came into play.:rolleyes:
I swear the Hatton fans are probably the 2nd most annoying fans after Pac fans.
What does that have to do with anything? No one has said anything close to that in this thread.
How could Hatton be shot after the best victory of his (at that point) relatively young career?
They didn't say it in this thread, but the Hatton fans at this forum said that their man wasn't the same anymore after that Kostya fight, saying things like his punch resistance is gone after that fight, and that's the reason why guys like Lazcano seemed to hurt him, blah, blah, blah, excuses. Pacman and Floyd beat him because of that, blah, blah, blah.
To be honest, Pacman should just wipe out the 140 division, fight Floyd for one last humongous payday and then call it a career.
I've seen almost no one saying things like this. Was Hatton the fighter he was when he fought Tszyu? No, probably not. I personally don't think he looked the same since the beating Collazo put on him, but I (and I would imagine a lot of other people) think that Pacquiao would have beaten Hatton at any point. He's simply the much better fighter.
However, there's no denying that fighters peak and then decline, and Hatton is clearly on the decline. That's no insult to Pac, it just appears to be a fact. In my mind, it doesn't matter though. Pacquiao is a far superior fighter to any version of Hatton and this version of Pac would've beaten him at any point in his career.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
I've been hearing this 'punch resistance' thing as an Hatton's primarily excuse. I think he'd still get ktfo like that 4 or 5 years ago with the killer punch that Pac inflicted him.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
In all honesty all that matters to me now is PAC winning his 7th weight div championship, I don't care who he fights catch weight or not. I just want him to make history to be the first boxer to do so.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
In all honesty all that matters to me now is PAC winning his 7th weight div championship, I don't care who he fights catch weight or not. I just want him to make history to be the first boxer to do so.
I feel like a catchweight will diminish that accomplishment. I'm positive he can beat Cotto at 147 so perhaps that clouds my judgement, but I really think Pac should forget about this catchweight bullshit and just fight at the divisions limit.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
In all honesty all that matters to me now is PAC winning his 7th weight div championship, I don't care who he fights catch weight or not. I just want him to make history to be the first boxer to do so.
your right man, forget these babies whining. history wont hear them at all but that 7th weight div title will be told loudly.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
I just don't see the point. The weight classes exist, so why not just follow what exists instead of trying to find loopholes around them. Pac is at 140, Cotto is at 147. If Manny cannot deal with 147 then he should stick it out at 140. It's a simple logic.
miles do you know cotto wants the fight too? are you guys forgetting that two fighters are agreeing to a catchweight? Yes pac is at 140 and cotto is at 147, why do you think a catchweight is being negotiated :shakehead:
If cotto didnt want the fight i assure you pac would rather stay at 140, same goes with mosley and floyd. Pac is risking to fight above 140 for the big name tough fighters, and he shouldn't be allowed to negotiate a catchweight? Like i said if these bigger fighters didnt want to fight pac, pac wouldn't go above 140.
I thought you guys aren't crediting pacs win over dela hoya at 147, so why do some of you raise your standard of pac. fighting cotto or mosley at 147 is fair? Seriously are you guys forgetting how hard you laughed at anybody that mentioned pac possibly fighting anybody above 140, now the bar has been raise and pac shouldnt have a catchweight above 140 cause he'll clearly have the advantage over any welterweight :o
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.
If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.
People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.
Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.
A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.
It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?
Cotto himself said he could do 145 no problem, in his last bout he weighed in at 146. Pac is unlikely to even weigh in at 144 if he fights above junier weltwer weight. Do you still think its unfair?
Are you guys telling me you guys believe pac would easily beat cotto at any weight below 147? :D nuthuggers! ;D
Its up to the two fighters and this fight is likely to happen at a catchweight.
Of course he said that. Offer me 10 million dollars and I'll tell you I can make 80 lbs and I'll try my best to do it. Boxers say and do all kinds of things to get marquee fights made.
Just because he can make the weight doesn't mean he's going to be at his best. I think Pac would beat Cotto handily at 147 and that victory would have a lot more credibility than one at 145. Like it or not, if this fight takes place anywhere below 147, it will always have an asterix beside it in many peoples eyes.
yea ofcourse the nuetral fans would be like cotto was shot and couldn't pull the trigger at 145 right? :shakehead:
Pac wins, he gets another big win over a great fighter plus his 7th division title. Thats what the history book would read, not what the bias fans would say ;)
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Re: Lets get something straight!
If it's just a catchweight fight no one would really cry foul, it would be another one of those Jones-Trinidad or Pavlik-Hopkins fight.
But a catchweight fight for a world title? lol
That's just a joke.
As Marvin Hagler once said, "if you want to be champion, if you want to take my titles, then I think you better come and take it."
And Pacman should come and take it at 147.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
I don't think it matters. I think Pac will beat Cotto even at 147. Now if someone had told me i'd be saying that 12 months ago I would have laughed in their face.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Pac winning a 7th division title at catchweight?.. Sure, I'm with it. He's not gonna get so much credit for it, but that'll be ok for now. Maybe he can fight for the real 147 belt early next year. He hasn't outgrown jr welter yet, so why the rush at 147?
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
In all honesty all that matters to me now is PAC winning his 7th weight div championship, I don't care who he fights catch weight or not. I just want him to make history to be the first boxer to do so.
your right man, forget these babies whining. history wont hear them at all but that 7th weight div title will be told loudly.
Wrong.
Is Freddie Roach now deciding what the Welterweight limit should be?
It will not be a 7th weight div. championship because none exist at 145.
Fact
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
In all honesty all that matters to me now is PAC winning his 7th weight div championship, I don't care who he fights catch weight or not. I just want him to make history to be the first boxer to do so.
your right man, forget these babies whining. history wont hear them at all but that 7th weight div title will be told loudly.
Well since all you Pac fans think Manny walks on water, and since you're so confident in your man's abilities, then you should have no problem with him fighting for that 7th title at 147.
If Manny beats Cotto at 147, I'll have absolutely no problem giving him credit for it, but when Cotto beats Manny, will you Pac fans be able to do the same, without whining?
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diane
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
In all honesty all that matters to me now is PAC winning his 7th weight div championship, I don't care who he fights catch weight or not. I just want him to make history to be the first boxer to do so.
your right man, forget these babies whining. history wont hear them at all but that 7th weight div title will be told loudly.
Well since all you Pac fans think Manny walks on water, and since you're so confident in your man's abilities, then you should have no problem with him fighting for that 7th title at 147.
If Manny beats Cotto at 147, I'll have absolutely no problem giving him credit for it, but when Cotto beats Manny, will you Pac fans be able to do the same, without whining?
we're not whining and do not think PAC walks on water Ma'am.
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Re: Lets get something straight!
Alright, maybe Cotto should agree to a catch weight of 146 1/2 pounds on the scale for the welterweight titles. I say that's a pretty fair catch weight.;D
