Is James Toney Really Finished ?

I was just looking at an old thread i made, and i was saying James Toney should retire. Because im a big fan of his, and this was just after his fight with Danny Batchelder.

But then he comesback with a decent performance against Hasim Rahman, but then he has another sub-par peformance against Fres Oquendo. Who isn't a bad fighter IMO, and that kind of style has troubled James Toney in the past, see the Terry McGroom fight.

So is he really finished ? he seems to go through these bad patches, of strugging against lower class opposition. But i think he has one good one left in him, if he's next opponent is chosen carefully. A fighter that stands right in front of him with no movement, allowing him to rattle off his counters.

I'd think his window is just about closed; but he's the type who will always surprise you. If he wasn't such a fat ass he'd be like a Bernard Hopkins or even a Foreman.

You have to be an eternal optimist but love the spirit.

Been a fan for the longest but si....the man is done on the elite level.Mentally and more so physically.He has always been on a roller coaster and at times his own worst enemy...just doing enough to get by and at other times looking as if he could walk into any boxing ring in any era over history and look like he was at home.He can beat all of the one dimensional plodders but wont do much more I believe.Any one specific in mind?

He is certainly done and could get beat by guys he would have smashed to bits in the past.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

You have to be an eternal optimist but love the spirit.

Been a fan for the longest but si....the man is done on the elite level.Mentally and more so physically.He has always been on a roller coaster and at times his own worst enemy...just doing enough to get by and at other times looking as if he could walk into any boxing ring in any era over history and look like he was at home.He can beat all of the one dimensional plodders but wont do much more I believe.Any one specific in mind?

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I think a fight with Oleg Maskaev, would be a good style match up for him.

He's finished as a serious fighter. It's amazing that I can look at his excellent career & think what a waste of the talent it was. Fat bastard.

yes and I've thought so for a while. This isn't a crack at you necessarily Ice but how many times have fans of fighters gone "I think he's got one more great performance left" when that guy doesn't have that one great fight left. See Tyson. See Roy Jones. Etc.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

You have to be an eternal optimist but love the spirit.

Been a fan for the longest but si....the man is done on the elite level.Mentally and more so physically.He has always been on a roller coaster and at times his own worst enemy...just doing enough to get by and at other times looking as if he could walk into any boxing ring in any era over history and look like he was at home.He can beat all of the one dimensional plodders but wont do much more I believe.Any one specific in mind?

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I think a fight with Oleg Maskaev, would be a good style match up for him.

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Could be.Oleg is an odd one.I thought that he was the type Haye should have looked into for early Hvy exposure...title ties,athreat and feet of stone but hitable & chinny.But ultimatly for Toney...what does it get him?Toney not exactly elusive now.

I think Toney is done now. He's been pretty inactive since Peter beat him quite easily in that second fight. What with him being in his 40's and showing no sign of fighting since Oquendo I think it's best that he just let's it be now.

There is nothing more he can prove at his age.

Yes, Toney is finished.

Given how smart he is and how great his chin is, he could probably still survive thru 12 rounds with a top guy, but he can't actually beat one at this point.

He should call it quits.

Well we can all agree he's not finished eating yet.

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Originally Posted by LEGION

Well we can all agree he's not finished eating yet.

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Correct. He hasn't even reached his prime yet in that regard.

That guy was genuinely extremely talented but the pod he grew up got weary on him and he obviously lost a few fights because of it and reduced considerably his durability.. Personally, i think he could have had the potential to be a kind of B-Hop durability and talent talking but... down the drain. Or the stomach shall I say.

Piss on everyone saying that Toney was a wasted talent. The old fucker was robbed of two heavyweight titles at an old age when he could have retired (on top). The man is a phenom and one of the best boxers ever. Fought over 100 pounds competitively at an elite level from what he started out as. He has ducked nobody and fought everyone. Sure he showed up a few times not prepared and was gifted decisions, but there aren't very many fighters that have fought as many times or as long as he has that hasn't.

One of my favorite heavyweight fights is Toney/Holyfield......man he just OWNED Evander. Everyone wants to ride Holyfields joy toy......but Toney fought all who came.

That was his last great performance against Holyfield.

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Originally Posted by Master

That was his last great performance against Holyfield.

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I thought his performance against Rydell Booker, was pretty darn good aswell.

As a big James TOney fan (I would have to say he is my favorite of all time) I think he's finished. He's 41 (I believe), his reflexes are not what they used to be, he's slurring his words and he just can't seem to get himself into shape.

Whats left for him? He's struggling with guys like Rahman, Batchelder and Oquendo. He would get killed by either Klitchsko and most of the Russian contenders. I really don't see what he can accomplish anymore.

His time has passed. He had a great career, but I still think he is one of the biggest underachievers in boxing history. I think he could have been top 10 of all time if he had the discipline to stay in shape and train hard for every fight.

Its too bad James Toney couldn't do more at heavyweight and be more active.

He really is a great great boxer.

He just lacka dishiplin as the chinese guy on South Park would say.

And now he's 40 years old and I see no chance of him winning a world title.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Master

That was his last great performance against Holyfield.

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I thought his performance against Rydell Booker, was pretty darn good aswell.

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He absolutely schooled Dominick Guinn, whos a pretty good fighter in his own right. Also who can forget the beating he put on Ruiz.

He's not active enough, he's got a solid defense and all but he just isn't effective on offense anymore.

I think the old man has 1 really good fight left in him. Its a shame when jab and grab douche bag John Ruiz or Rahman keep getting title shots and Toney has to keep fighting ham and eggers until the end. He would probably get killed but he should get a shot at the undisputed title before its over.

Ruiz would kick this version of Toney's ass. John always stays in shape. As for Toney, he also stays in shape--shaped like a shmooooo!

I think if Toney was serious about fighting he would have fought a few months after Oquendo or even granted Oquendo a rematch. Toney probably knew himself that he was done after struggling as he did in that fight and the long break since has been quite telling regarding Toney and his future. It doesn't seem like there is one. And he's been doing it a long time, just a shame that he couldn't win a heavyweight belt (legitimately) and bow out at the top.

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Piss on everyone saying that Toney was a wasted talent. The old fucker was robbed of two heavyweight titles at an old age when he could have retired (on top). The man is a phenom and one of the best boxers ever. Fought over 100 pounds competitively at an elite level from what he started out as. He has ducked nobody and fought everyone. Sure he showed up a few times not prepared and was gifted decisions, but there aren't very many fighters that have fought as many times or as long as he has that hasn't.

One of my favorite heavyweight fights is Toney/Holyfield......man he just OWNED Evander. Everyone wants to ride Holyfields joy toy......but Toney fought all who came.

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We all agree that TOney was perhaps one of the best of his generation and that he perhaps got robbed but his lack of conditioning as been extremely expensive, a top shape Toney would have mangled Sam Peters on both occasion without a possible shadow of controversy.

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Piss on everyone saying that Toney was a wasted talent. The old fucker was robbed of two heavyweight titles at an old age when he could have retired (on top). The man is a phenom and one of the best boxers ever. Fought over 100 pounds competitively at an elite level from what he started out as. He has ducked nobody and fought everyone. Sure he showed up a few times not prepared and was gifted decisions, but there aren't very many fighters that have fought as many times or as long as he has that hasn't.

One of my favorite heavyweight fights is Toney/Holyfield......man he just OWNED Evander. Everyone wants to ride Holyfields joy toy......but Toney fought all who came.

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We all agree that TOney was perhaps one of the best of his generation and that he perhaps got robbed but his lack of conditioning as been extremely expensive, a top shape Toney would have mangled Sam Peters on both occasion without a possible shadow of controversy.

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Thought he easily won the first fight on the cards mate. No way he could have ever knocked Peter out so how could he have avoided the screwing he recieved??

James Toney would be difficult for Cris Arreola to beat, I would have said David Haye, but I would HOPE that David would have learned his lesson about trying to KO somebody who is old and cagey....but you never know.

Haye would beat Toney at this point.

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Originally Posted by Master

Haye would beat Toney at this point.

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I would hope that the "Saviour of the HW division" would beat a 40 year old middleweight!

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

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Originally Posted by Master

Haye would beat Toney at this point.

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I would hope that the "Saviour of the HW division" would beat a 40 year old middleweight!

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True if you actually believed he is the saviour. In reality let some of us Brits dream. :cool:

Toney got absolutely, positively ROBBED against Peter in the first fight, and anyone who thinks Peter won that fight is nuts IMO.

Toney has been robbed several times. There are only 3 guys who have ever beat Toney. Roy Jones, Sam Peter (a HW), and Dave Tiberi (Toney got one of the biggest gift decisions I've ever seen in that fight).

Toney's style of standing in the pocket and counter punching was just not a good style to win judges, I think a lot of the time judges thought punches that were being slipped were actually landing. There is no way Montell Griffen won those fights.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Toney got absolutely, positively ROBBED against Peter in the first fight, and anyone who thinks Peter won that fight is nuts IMO.

Toney has been robbed several times. There are only 3 guys who have ever beat Toney. Roy Jones, Sam Peter (a HW), and Dave Tiberi (Toney got one of the biggest gift decisions I've ever seen in that fight).

Toney's style of standing in the pocket and counter punching was just not a good style to win judges, I think a lot of the time judges thought punches that were being slipped were actually landing. There is no way Montell Griffen won those fights.

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but to be fair Toney has been given a few fights in his day.

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

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Originally Posted by Nameless

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Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Piss on everyone saying that Toney was a wasted talent. The old fucker was robbed of two heavyweight titles at an old age when he could have retired (on top). The man is a phenom and one of the best boxers ever. Fought over 100 pounds competitively at an elite level from what he started out as. He has ducked nobody and fought everyone. Sure he showed up a few times not prepared and was gifted decisions, but there aren't very many fighters that have fought as many times or as long as he has that hasn't.

One of my favorite heavyweight fights is Toney/Holyfield......man he just OWNED Evander. Everyone wants to ride Holyfields joy toy......but Toney fought all who came.

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We all agree that TOney was perhaps one of the best of his generation and that he perhaps got robbed but his lack of conditioning as been extremely expensive, a top shape Toney would have mangled Sam Peters on both occasion without a possible shadow of controversy.

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Thought he easily won the first fight on the cards mate. No way he could have ever knocked Peter out so how could he have avoided the screwing he recieved??

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PErhaps but mangled the second time big time, if he would be fit, the he would have never dropped the first decision and he wouldn't have been dismantled in the second, the big problem is his super lack of conditionning and the weight he got in the meantime, the guy's talent is phenomenal but he doesn't maximize it and capitalize on a healthy shape. NOw at more or less 40 and out of shape, is chances to get back in the race are thinner than Mr Burn's hairline.